Question regarding spanking

[GentleFluff]

So I have a question about spanking but to fully understand it you have to hear the story first.
Yesterday was report card day, I am a 15 years old boy and I learn in 9th class as well as my girlfried, I always get good grades on my report card, but unfortunately my girlfriend doesn't.

But don't get me wrong, she is very smart, beautiful and knows a lot about science and math, we always talk about those things because they are interesting for us. She always gets about a 95 to a 100 in maths and also chemistry, biology etc.

Unfortunately she is bad at history, literature and basically all subjects that aren't related to science. She is mostly failing because of them. She really wants good grades and I come to her home and help her about 2 times a week, but she still fails, she gets better with time, and I can see that she really wants to succeed but it just never happens. I looked at her report card from yesterday and saw that she somehow improved but her grades are still considered a fail.

So today I came to help her study, and suddenly her dad entered the room, he saw we were studying and asked her about the report card, he looked at it and looked very disappointed, he told her that he closed his mouth for the first couple of report cards but now he is just disappointed that she has not improved enough to pass, so he told her that in order to make her pass and study better, he is going to spank her, he asked me to stay in the room, so I sat on a chair, her dad made her lay on his lap, took down her pants and panties and started spanking her, he didn't spank that hard, and it was only about 15 hits with his hand, she started crying a bit but she suffered quietly.

So after the spanking her dad told us, that from now on I have the rights to spank her for bad grades (which I will never do, because I don't want to harm her), but every test she fails she will get spanked, 15 hits, on a bare butt with only a hand, but the thing was that her dad would have to do it, so she would get spanked anyway even if I didnt want to do it but I still need to watch her get spanked, he thought it was fair so she can see that she should count me as her teacher and be more like me, but embarrassing as hell for her.

To the point, we talked a bit later and we still love eachother, she told me that she still wants my help, and she doesn't really care about the fact I will have to watch her spanked, but is not very comfortable with the fact that I am seeing her butt and girly parts during the spanking because we actually haven't seen each other naked and still not ready to have any sexual contact other then kissing and hugging, and I feel the same way.

But now I am worried for her, I don't want her to get spanked, but her dad wants to do it only that way. And another thing is that spanking is legal in my country do I can't complain to the police because her dad follows the fair spanking rules, so that is not an option...

So I wanted to know if anyone can suggest something I can do to help her, it is very important for me and especially for her, because even if the spankings are fair they still hurt a lot and I do think they are a bit abusive.

Thank you beforehand if you answer, I really need help, because I'm not comfortable with talking about it with anyone except her.

[Heather]

I'm so sorry to hear that this is happening in your girlfriend's family, but I am very happy to hear that it sounds like, in you, she has someone who is very supportive of her and cares for her deeply, someone who finds this kind of abuse her father is engaging in -- and trying to even get you to do, too, no less, which is so terrible -- as worrying as any of us should ever find any kind of abuse to be, even if and when laws allow for any kind of abuse.

So, what I think I',m hearing here are two different questions from you, but I want to make sure I have what you're asking right before I answer them, or get started talking with you about them. I'm hearing that:
a) What, if anything, can you both do to avoid and not be any part of a situation in which her father makes YOU part of intentionally humiliating and physically hurting her like this (which is why, you're right, this is an abuse even if your laws don't recognize it as one, or excuse it), including doing it when you are there, and
b) What, if anything, can you do to help her either get safe from her father or protect herself in her family, especially since where you live, this isn't something she can report as an abuse.

Do I have that right?

[GentleFluff]

I'm so sorry to hear that this is happening in your girlfriend's family, but I am very happy to hear that it sounds like, in you, she has someone who is very supportive of her and cares for her deeply, someone who finds this kind of abuse her father is engaging in -- and trying to even get you to do, too, no less, which is so terrible -- as worrying as any of us should ever find any kind of abuse to be, even if and when laws allow for any kind of abuse.

So, what I think I',m hearing here are two different questions from you, but I want to make sure I have what you're asking right before I answer them, or get started talking with you about them. I'm hearing that:
a) What, if anything, can you both do to avoid and not be any part of a situation in which her father makes YOU part of intentionally humiliating and physically hurting her like this (which is why, you're right, this is an abuse even if your laws don't recognize it as one, or excuse it), including doing it when you are there, and
b) What, if anything, can you do to help her either get safe from her father or protect herself in her family, especially since where you live, this isn't something she can report as an abuse.

Do I have that right?

Yes you do, I actually just want to stop the act of spanking her, I really don't want her to get hurt physically in any way, which spanking does. Both of the questions you mentioned are exactly what I need help in, but I don't want her to get out of her family or move to another one, that would be even worse.

[Heather]

I understand, and again, I'm so glad that she has you in her life, since it's very clear you care deeply for her.

I think the first question is a bit easier to tackle than the second: does it sounds doable to you, if and when her grades come in (or she does anything else that her father feels justified to abuse her about) and he is around that a) you simply do not choose to be at her house on those days, OR, if you are, and he comes home, can you not then leave at that time? Do you think he'd physically stop you from leaving?

(I'd ask about how you think he might respond to you telling him this isn't okay with you and you saying you will NOT be any part of it, save that it just doesn't sound like that kind of pushback would make it any safer for you or your girlfriend, and might even make things less safe. But if you have different thoughts about that, since you obviously have experience with him I don't, we can talk about that approach if you'd like.)

In terms of the second question, the first thing I'd ask if if you know if there's anyone in your girlfriend's family, ideally who also live there (but not necessarily), who you know or think would act in her protection the way that you want to, and who might have influence over her father. For instance, if she has a grandparent who lives with them whose word he feels has to be respected by everyone, including himself, who might (or would) tell him to stop doing this.

[GentleFluff]

I understand, and again, I'm so glad that she has you in her life, since it's very clear you care deeply for her.

I think the first question is a bit easier to tackle than the second: does it sounds doable to you, if and when her grades come in (or she does anything else that her father feels justified to abuse her about) and he is around that a) you simply do not choose to be at her house on those days, OR, if you are, and he comes home, can you not then leave at that time? Do you think he'd physically stop you from leaving?

(I'd ask about how you think he might respond to you telling him this isn't okay with you and you saying you will NOT be any part of it, save that it just doesn't sound like that kind of pushback would make it any safer for you or your girlfriend, and might even make things less safe. But if you have different thoughts about that, since you obviously have experience with him I don't, we can talk about that approach if you'd like.)

In terms of the second question, the first thing I'd ask if if you know if there's anyone in your girlfriend's family, ideally who also live there (but not necessarily), who you know or think would act in her protection the way that you want to, and who might have influence over her father. For instance, if she has a grandparent who lives with them whose word he feels has to be respected by everyone, including himself, who might (or would) tell him to stop doing this.

I can try to not be at her house or leave, it is fine for him. He is not an angry person so he won't stop me physically. I can't actually tell him about this because I know I'm risking losing my girlfriend, if I argue with him he might just not want me to come help her anymore or something like that.

But for the second question, she does have a grandfather that really loves her and can support and defend her, but the thing is that he is usually not around the house in the morning when this happens, he goes to do some activities in the morning and comes back home only in the evening, so I'm not sure if he knows about the story.

[Heather]

Well, just FYI, someone who abuses anyone and chooses to humiliate them on purpose IS an angry person, nut perhaps what you're saying is that while he takes that out on your girlfriend (and maybe others in the family) you do not feel he'd take it out on you.

But it does also sound like, by making you part of this, and even telling you he is giving you permission to spank her, he has the idea that you -- who knows why, perhaps because you're not a woman, as he isn't, and she is, so he assumes you agree with him about how women should be (mis)treated -- are in agreement with him. And I do think, that given, that it's probably a good call on your part to let him go on thinking that unchallenged, only exempting yourself as best and as non-confrontationally as you can, for both you and your girlfriend. I'd trust those instincts. I would also agree that if you can avoid doing anything that would cut her off from you, you want to avoid that, since besides probably just wanting to be with her because you like or love her, her losing someone like you in her corner would not be great for her at all.

In terms of the grandfather, would either your girlfriend feel able to tell him, or be comfortable having you tell him -- and then ask him for the kind of help I was suggesting -- instead?

[Heather]

(By the way, if at any time you want to talk about your own feelings, about yourself, in any of this, please ask. You witnessed and were nonconsensually made part of an abuse of someone you care about, and that is often deeply traumatic for people in its own right. I get, and so appreciate, that all of your concerns are with and for her right now, but please know care of you matters, too, and if you want to get some emotional support for yourself with any of this, I'm glad to be here for you for that.)

[GentleFluff]

Well, just FYI, someone who abuses anyone and chooses to humiliate them on purpose IS an angry person, nut perhaps what you're saying is that while he takes that out on your girlfriend (and maybe others in the family) you do not feel he'd take it out on you.

But it does also sound like, by making you part of this, and even telling you he is giving you permission to spank her, he has the idea that you -- who knows why, perhaps because you're not a woman, as he isn't, and she is, so he assumes you agree with him about how women should be (mis)treated -- are in agreement with him. And I do think, that given, that it's probably a good call on your part to let him go on thinking that unchallenged, only exempting yourself as best and as non-confrontationally as you can, for both you and your girlfriend. I'd trust those instincts. I would also agree that if you can avoid doing anything that would cut her off from you, you want to avoid that, since besides probably just wanting to be with her because you like or love her, her losing someone like you in her corner would not be great for her at all.

In terms of the grandfather, would either your girlfriend feel able to tell him, or be comfortable having you tell him -- and then ask him for the kind of help I was suggesting -- instead?

First of all, thank you for your support, and I'll first touch the topic regarding my feelings throughout this process. I'm actually really stressed out because of this. I don't count this as being a trauma for me personaly, I think I care more about her then me right now, because I'm fine with my family and all and I was never spanked before, but from her expressions and feelings I can really tell she is having a hard time, but thanks anyway for touching that topic.

Second of all, I'm actually very open with her, and as we speak I share some ideas and thoughts with her. We both think that going directly to her father is a bad move and won't get us anywhere, and I get what you are saying, that her dad gives me the right to spank her just to show that I have more power then her. But her dad never actually forces me to do things I don't want to do to her, but he still thinks that spanking her is to get her motivated to study, and that he cares for her future, but I think that there are better ways then spanking to do that.

Third, she does feel comfortable telling her grandfather about it, I'm sure he can impact on her father and change the situation, most of the part about me having to be at the spanking is probably solved for now, now I just need to know how to stop her dad from spanking her, because no matter if I am there or not, she still suffers from the spanking.

[Heather]

I don't think you can stop her Dad, unfortunately. I think the best you can do is support her, help her with her grades and do what you can to identify and connect her with people who likely CAN have that kind of power and influence, like her grandfather. I know that's obviously not what you want, but I just don't think you have any other real options here so far.

Are you okay with first trying this tactic with her grandfather, then seeing what you need from us from there?

Also, if your girlfriend has internet access and we can offer her some support, too, please let her know if she wants to make an account, we'd be happy to support her directly, as well.

[GentleFluff]

I don't think you can stop her Dad, unfortunately. I think the best you can do is support her, help her with her grades and do what you can to identify and connect her with people who likely CAN have that kind of power and influence, like her grandfather. I know that's obviously not what you want, but I just don't think you have any other real options here so far.

Are you okay with first trying this tactic with her grandfather, then seeing what you need from us from there?

Also, if your girlfriend has internet access and we can offer her some support, too, please let her know if she wants to make an account, we'd be happy to support her directly, as well.

Thanks, I'll try first telling her to speak to her grandfather, I know that I can't stop her dad, but her grandfather can give him a bit of sense and logic, and maybe he will stop or switch to a not harmful punishing method.

About the second thing, I always try to help her morally and I always try to cheer her up when we talk. I'll use my account to tell you here if she wants to point out something.

I do honestly try my best to teach and help her, and I see her grades are going up. If the spanking problem won't be solved I still hope that by next year she will do better and start passing the exams, and then her dad will stop spanking her.

I also wanted to point out that this is her first time getting spanked. She told me she was never spanked before, but in such case her dad thinks it is the best punishment method.

I'll tell her to talk to her grandfather, and I'll come back tomorrow and tell you the results, thanks for the time being!

[Heather]

Of course. Please let me know as there is anything else I can do to help or provide support. You know where to find us.

[Atonement]

I just wanted to chime in with a personal opinion here.

I think that even though spanking itself is legal where you live, the fact that a father is forcing a teenage girl to take of her pants and underwear, both in front of him AND her boyfriend is very disturbing.

I don't know exactly how the law works, but if my father had made me expose myself to him or to another guy, I definitely would have viewed this as sexual abuse.

Do you guys think its worth exploring from this angle? At the very least, it seems like something that might make her grandfather more willing to see her side of the issue.

[Heather]

Personally, I'd advise against that. I agree, spanking has a sexual element to it, which is part of what makes it so humiliating. Forcing nudity with Mister_Shadow, on top of it, an intimacy he and his girlfriend don't want yet, hearkens to that as well.

However, in cultures, families or communities where, as it is, there's already a very heavy burden based on gender and PRESUMED sexuality of that gender (women), and a lot of blaming of women for anything and everything sexual, that approach just seems more likely to me to make Mister_Shadow's girlfriend feel more isolated, may be confusing for her grandfather and may inadvertently stigmatize her, basically.

But of course, the narrative that matters here, and what any of this is called, ultimately should be the narrative of Mister_Shadow's girlfriend. So, by all means, if *she* wants to talk about it -- with whomever she wants to -- as also being a sexual abuse, and that's what it feels like to her, then certainly that's something she should feel able to do and claim. Make sense?

[Atonement]

Yes, sorry about that. Didn't look at the location and presumptuously assumed it was here in the US, where I think that could possibly have different implications.

[Heather]

No need to be sorry: isn't like tossing ideas around is a bad thing!

(Our userbase on the site as a whole is only about 30% in the US, so just in general, probably never a sound assumption. We're very international.)

[GentleFluff]

Thanks for all the ideas guys!
Although we did solve the problem already. her grandfather talked with her dad and so he agreed to stop and promised he will never spank or embarrass her again, he was worried about her future and so wanted her to take this more serious.

But thankfully he stopped and I will never have to worry about that again. I don't want to involve the police or any other methods to this story as it is solved, and it will be better for me not to.

So thank you all for helping, I can still discuss here or if you want to ask me anything feel free to.

[Heather]

I couldn't be happier to hear that news! I've been thinking a lot about both of you. Thanks so much for such a good update.