So I'm finally daring to ask for a bit of advice for myself...
I am still in my first relationship. We've been together for years and I think it's going great, in bed and out of it. There's just one thing I am unsure how to handle:
Quite often, it happens that he wants to have sex and I don't. My desire seems to be synced to my cycle somehow, at least I've noticed that around the time where I'm probably fertile I am much more likely to feel like it, and just before menstruation is when I'm the most likely to want to be left alone or just cuddle. For me, that's totally fine. I love what we do when we do it, and I don't suffer from not being in the mood - don't suffer for myself, that is. In the very early days of us being together, I would occasionally go along with activities that I didn't really want at the given time, but I've learned long ago to say no.
My partner is very, very understanding and respectful. He accepts my refusals when I make them and he gets that what one might want to do one day, one mightn't be in the mood for the next. The problem is that he seems to be ashamed to feel desire for me even when I don't want to have sex that very moment and to feel guilty about the frustration that ensues when he's lying next to a woman who for him is hot and loves him, but who doesn't want to be intimately touched right now.
How can I make him understand that not consenting is not the same as judging? I do think his desire is as valid and important as my temporary lack thereof, and I don't mean to make him feel like a bad person at all or claim that men in general are disgusting or only think about sex or any of that.
I've seen him so upset about this that he's actually cried.
We come from very different backgrounds where sex is concerned. My parents are liberal and relaxed and while they never pushed the issue, never ever gave me the message that sexuality is anything but natural and normal. His household was much stricter and more traditional, for example his mother wasn't allowed to know we shared a bed before we were legally grown up, or that he bought condoms. Religion also played a large part in his upbringing, and while I do think he's benefited from that in many ways, it wasn't exactly helpful when it comes to sex and shame.
So: any ideas how I can reassure him and encourage not being ashamed and being positive about sex while at the same time setting the boundaries I need for me to be okay?
Consent vs affirmation
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Heather
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Re: Consent vs affirmation
Can you fill me in on the conversations you've had about this so far?
In other words, have you already had some talks about this? If so, in them, what have you been saying, and where do you feel like he gets it, and where do you feel like he doesn't?
Also, I hear you saying he seems to feel ashamed and guilty: is this because he's voiced to you that that's how he feels? If not, and you're assuming it is, have you been sure in these talks to ask him how he feels? Perhaps obviously, if we're going to talk about addressing these feelings he's having, we want to be sure he's actually having them.
In other words, have you already had some talks about this? If so, in them, what have you been saying, and where do you feel like he gets it, and where do you feel like he doesn't?
Also, I hear you saying he seems to feel ashamed and guilty: is this because he's voiced to you that that's how he feels? If not, and you're assuming it is, have you been sure in these talks to ask him how he feels? Perhaps obviously, if we're going to talk about addressing these feelings he's having, we want to be sure he's actually having them.
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Sunshine
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Re: Consent vs affirmation
We've talked about this quite a lot...
He explicitly says he feels ashamed of feeling desire for me while I don't want to have sex. And then I say there's nothing to feel ashamed of, it's just like one person being hungry and the other not or one person wanting to go out and the other wanting to stay home. It's just one of those things... And he acts like he understands, but then there'll be tossing and turning next to me and sighing and other signs of discomfort and then I ask what's wrong, and he'll say things like he feels "like a pig" or similar. It seems to me as if he can only feel okay about his sexuality as long as I am there to demonstrate that it leads to me feeling pleasure, it's as if his desire has no right to exist on its own in his eyes.
I've suggested things like taking care of himself, either while lying next to me or in another room if that would be too private for me to witness. If it were me wanting sex while my partner doesn't (which has never to date happened), I know ways to get myself off with no inconvenience to anyone else, and I am sure he masturbates when he's alone.
We've talked and talked. But I still think he doesn't get that "I don't want to sleep with you right now" is not an accusation à la "you dirty man, that's all you think about". His reasoning is something along the lines of "how can say it's okay when you don't want it?"
He explicitly says he feels ashamed of feeling desire for me while I don't want to have sex. And then I say there's nothing to feel ashamed of, it's just like one person being hungry and the other not or one person wanting to go out and the other wanting to stay home. It's just one of those things... And he acts like he understands, but then there'll be tossing and turning next to me and sighing and other signs of discomfort and then I ask what's wrong, and he'll say things like he feels "like a pig" or similar. It seems to me as if he can only feel okay about his sexuality as long as I am there to demonstrate that it leads to me feeling pleasure, it's as if his desire has no right to exist on its own in his eyes.
I've suggested things like taking care of himself, either while lying next to me or in another room if that would be too private for me to witness. If it were me wanting sex while my partner doesn't (which has never to date happened), I know ways to get myself off with no inconvenience to anyone else, and I am sure he masturbates when he's alone.
We've talked and talked. But I still think he doesn't get that "I don't want to sleep with you right now" is not an accusation à la "you dirty man, that's all you think about". His reasoning is something along the lines of "how can say it's okay when you don't want it?"
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Heather
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Re: Consent vs affirmation
Okay.
So, one thing I'm hearing in these conversations is that he tells you how he feels, and you tell him there's no reason to feel that way.
I get what you're after with your responses: you don't want him to suffer feeling that way, and you're trying to do what you can to make it clear that as far as you're concerned, there's no cause for that, in the hopes that will help him.
But something that can happen when someone tells us how they feel and we tell them they don't need to is that they don't feel their feelings are being validated, and that's often a first step to people being able to work through hard feelings and get past them. Too, it sounds very clear none of this is coming from you, but from what you say about his family history, it's certainly coming from somewhere. It's often really hard to shake off negative messaging we got about sex from families, and often the effort of many years or longer.
So, perhaps what's missing here is a few things:
1) Perhaps you assuming he doesn't get you're not accusing him...when he isn't saying that this IS coming from you. In other words, it sounds to me like most of this -- perhaps even none of it -- is about you at all, even though it obviously impacts you.
2) You aren't validating his feelings: in other words, how about instead of telling him there's no reason, you accept that you do, in fact, know some of the reasons he feels that way, and just be with him in those feelings, expressing empathy and sympathy, rather than trying to fix this for him or do what you can to make those feelings go away (again, I know this is well-meaning on your part, that's very clear).
3) How about asking him what, if anything, you can do for him to help him work through these feelings when he's having them instead of kind of deciding that for him with those attempts to discredit how he's feeling. Know what I mean?
It might, by the way, help to talk more about how your own sexuality is your own sexuality, and that it isn't all about him, just like you figure his probably isn't all about you. It might be helpful for him to know there are times you want to be sexual when you don't invite or ask him because you have your own sexuality and sexual desires, because that might give him a bit more permission in his own head and heart when it comes to himself.
Lastly, if you feel like there's a sort of sexual codependence here, with him only feeling okay about being a sexual person if and when he's sexual with you, I'd say that's something to also talk about down the road. That's just not the healthiest of situations, and I don't imagine it feels too great for you, either. And sometimes it can help to bring your own issues to the table with something like this so that a partner doesn't feel like they're the only person with a "problem," and their sexual partner is in the role of doctor or therapist to fix them.
On that note, one extra thing to consider is suggesting he talk to someone else about this besides you, because if he is only talking to you about it, then that can get a little off-kilter: our partner feeling like they're in the role of our sex therapist often feels pretty ooky, and certainly doesn't tend to feel very sexually empowering. Plus, if these are big issues from his upbringing causing him a lot of shame, he may simply need professional help from a third party who isn't his sexual partner, and who also has experience and education when it comes to helping people deal with sexual shame learned in families. I'd say the same goes with the idea that his sexual desire is only okay if and when the person he feels it with wants to share it: that's a pretty big, thorny mess, one that certainly has got to be rough on you, and the kind of attitude and ideology someone is usually either going to need a lot of time and/or qualified help to work through and learn alternatives.
You can be a great person to support him in that, but when it comes to stuff like this, you're probably not the right person to be helping him in the big ways with these sexual issues, since you're his sexual partner, and probably the person he wants as a partner (if this is even right for him right now: one thing a therapist can do with him is sort out if he's even in the right place yet to be with a sexual partner), not as a therapist, if you follow.
So, one thing I'm hearing in these conversations is that he tells you how he feels, and you tell him there's no reason to feel that way.
I get what you're after with your responses: you don't want him to suffer feeling that way, and you're trying to do what you can to make it clear that as far as you're concerned, there's no cause for that, in the hopes that will help him.
But something that can happen when someone tells us how they feel and we tell them they don't need to is that they don't feel their feelings are being validated, and that's often a first step to people being able to work through hard feelings and get past them. Too, it sounds very clear none of this is coming from you, but from what you say about his family history, it's certainly coming from somewhere. It's often really hard to shake off negative messaging we got about sex from families, and often the effort of many years or longer.
So, perhaps what's missing here is a few things:
1) Perhaps you assuming he doesn't get you're not accusing him...when he isn't saying that this IS coming from you. In other words, it sounds to me like most of this -- perhaps even none of it -- is about you at all, even though it obviously impacts you.
2) You aren't validating his feelings: in other words, how about instead of telling him there's no reason, you accept that you do, in fact, know some of the reasons he feels that way, and just be with him in those feelings, expressing empathy and sympathy, rather than trying to fix this for him or do what you can to make those feelings go away (again, I know this is well-meaning on your part, that's very clear).
3) How about asking him what, if anything, you can do for him to help him work through these feelings when he's having them instead of kind of deciding that for him with those attempts to discredit how he's feeling. Know what I mean?
It might, by the way, help to talk more about how your own sexuality is your own sexuality, and that it isn't all about him, just like you figure his probably isn't all about you. It might be helpful for him to know there are times you want to be sexual when you don't invite or ask him because you have your own sexuality and sexual desires, because that might give him a bit more permission in his own head and heart when it comes to himself.
Lastly, if you feel like there's a sort of sexual codependence here, with him only feeling okay about being a sexual person if and when he's sexual with you, I'd say that's something to also talk about down the road. That's just not the healthiest of situations, and I don't imagine it feels too great for you, either. And sometimes it can help to bring your own issues to the table with something like this so that a partner doesn't feel like they're the only person with a "problem," and their sexual partner is in the role of doctor or therapist to fix them.
On that note, one extra thing to consider is suggesting he talk to someone else about this besides you, because if he is only talking to you about it, then that can get a little off-kilter: our partner feeling like they're in the role of our sex therapist often feels pretty ooky, and certainly doesn't tend to feel very sexually empowering. Plus, if these are big issues from his upbringing causing him a lot of shame, he may simply need professional help from a third party who isn't his sexual partner, and who also has experience and education when it comes to helping people deal with sexual shame learned in families. I'd say the same goes with the idea that his sexual desire is only okay if and when the person he feels it with wants to share it: that's a pretty big, thorny mess, one that certainly has got to be rough on you, and the kind of attitude and ideology someone is usually either going to need a lot of time and/or qualified help to work through and learn alternatives.
You can be a great person to support him in that, but when it comes to stuff like this, you're probably not the right person to be helping him in the big ways with these sexual issues, since you're his sexual partner, and probably the person he wants as a partner (if this is even right for him right now: one thing a therapist can do with him is sort out if he's even in the right place yet to be with a sexual partner), not as a therapist, if you follow.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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Sunshine
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Re: Consent vs affirmation
Thanks, Heather, I think I do follow... And I'm laughing at myself so hard right now because "don't try to be your partner's therapist" is usually my standard advice to my own friends. Seems I'm one of those people who should learn to practice what they preach - but I couldn't see it, I thought we were just having a communication problem. 
So next time, I'll just say "it sucks that you feel that way - any idea what we can do about it?"
All I'm going to get for an answer will probably be profound silence, but that's okay - I need to accept he can at least think on his own without my participation...
I don't think I'd be very successful in trying to persuade him to seek outside help, but if I stop trying offer advice, maybe he'll some day get that idea on his own.
Thank you so much for your time and your long, insightful answer!
So next time, I'll just say "it sucks that you feel that way - any idea what we can do about it?"
All I'm going to get for an answer will probably be profound silence, but that's okay - I need to accept he can at least think on his own without my participation...
I don't think I'd be very successful in trying to persuade him to seek outside help, but if I stop trying offer advice, maybe he'll some day get that idea on his own.
Thank you so much for your time and your long, insightful answer!
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Heather
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Re: Consent vs affirmation
Oh, please: I don't think there's a single one of us that gets anything close to a lifetime without ignoring our own advice. 
If it's not nudging in, I'd suggest a brief edit to that "It sucks," sentence. Which is "I imagine it's got to suck..." or "I'm so sorry that you feel that way, I imagine it's really upsetting..." Because, of course, if he's feeling that way, not you, you don't know how it feels. The goal is to sympathize if you can't empathize, and to make room for his feelings, rather than assigning any to him. Catch my drift?
Instead of "What can we do about it," you might also instead try, "Is there any way I can help?"
And sure, maybe you will get silence. If so, then you can just accept it, and say something like, "Well, if you ever want to talk to me about it, have me listen, ask for my feedback, get my support, just let me know." Then he gets to respond how he feels able and comfortable, but he knows you're there if he wants to talk. This is probably, again -- and I know this isn't awesome news -- going to be a longtime issue where steps taken are usually baby steps.
I'm happy to help, and I'm sorry you're struggling with this: this stuff can be so hard, and so thorny. I also know how lost one can feel in it, there being no real maps.
If it's not nudging in, I'd suggest a brief edit to that "It sucks," sentence. Which is "I imagine it's got to suck..." or "I'm so sorry that you feel that way, I imagine it's really upsetting..." Because, of course, if he's feeling that way, not you, you don't know how it feels. The goal is to sympathize if you can't empathize, and to make room for his feelings, rather than assigning any to him. Catch my drift?
Instead of "What can we do about it," you might also instead try, "Is there any way I can help?"
And sure, maybe you will get silence. If so, then you can just accept it, and say something like, "Well, if you ever want to talk to me about it, have me listen, ask for my feedback, get my support, just let me know." Then he gets to respond how he feels able and comfortable, but he knows you're there if he wants to talk. This is probably, again -- and I know this isn't awesome news -- going to be a longtime issue where steps taken are usually baby steps.
I'm happy to help, and I'm sorry you're struggling with this: this stuff can be so hard, and so thorny. I also know how lost one can feel in it, there being no real maps.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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Sunshine
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Re: Consent vs affirmation
Thanks for your sympathy...
I think the trickiest part for me is on the one hand being sympathetic and understanding of how my partner feels but at the same time taking care of myself. I know I won't really help him in any way by saying yes when I mean no or agreeing to something I am just not in the mood for, but if he's going to feel hurt or unhappy in any way over it, it's just harder to be firm.
Now, if I say that to him, it makes things worse because then he gets the message that he's pressuring me and feels even worse about himself, whereas he's really not trying to do that and I know he isn't but... Anyway. You said it's probably not half as much about me as I might think and you're very likely right.
As for assigning feelings to him: That's a very easy trap to fall into when he doesn't respond at all to open questions. Like, when I say: "how do you feel about...", the most frequent answer I get is "I don't know". That has always puzzled me - how can someone not know how he feels? So I guess I too often try to narrow it down, like: "are you sad? Worried? Or just tired?" Then he'll frequently choose an option. Maybe he's just doing that to shut me up... If so, I wish he'd just say he doesn't want to talk or that it's none of my business. But oh well.
All this probably sounds as if we have a terrible relationship, but I assure you it's actually pretty wonderful most of the time. We've lasted for years with our respective baggage and issues and we've gotten over several big obstacles together, I'm pretty confident we can find ways to tackle whatever lies ahead.
Again, thank you for your sympathy and your input!
I think the trickiest part for me is on the one hand being sympathetic and understanding of how my partner feels but at the same time taking care of myself. I know I won't really help him in any way by saying yes when I mean no or agreeing to something I am just not in the mood for, but if he's going to feel hurt or unhappy in any way over it, it's just harder to be firm.
Now, if I say that to him, it makes things worse because then he gets the message that he's pressuring me and feels even worse about himself, whereas he's really not trying to do that and I know he isn't but... Anyway. You said it's probably not half as much about me as I might think and you're very likely right.
As for assigning feelings to him: That's a very easy trap to fall into when he doesn't respond at all to open questions. Like, when I say: "how do you feel about...", the most frequent answer I get is "I don't know". That has always puzzled me - how can someone not know how he feels? So I guess I too often try to narrow it down, like: "are you sad? Worried? Or just tired?" Then he'll frequently choose an option. Maybe he's just doing that to shut me up... If so, I wish he'd just say he doesn't want to talk or that it's none of my business. But oh well.
All this probably sounds as if we have a terrible relationship, but I assure you it's actually pretty wonderful most of the time. We've lasted for years with our respective baggage and issues and we've gotten over several big obstacles together, I'm pretty confident we can find ways to tackle whatever lies ahead. Again, thank you for your sympathy and your input!
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Heather
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Re: Consent vs affirmation
I didn't make any assumptions about the whole of the relationship, and it's not like it's uncommon for the best of relationships to have one or two big, long-term challenges in them.
Is he a reader, by any chance? If so, one book I'd suggest that sounds like it might be a good fit for him is, "SexSmart: How Your Childhood Shaped Your Sexual Life and What to Do with It," by Aline P. Zoldbrod Ph.D. It does a great job of giving people education and insight about inherited sexual attitudes and frameworks, and help working on those that are negative, destructive or otherwise just not beneficial. An if that turns out to be valuable to him, it might also be something that makes him feel more inclined to follow through with therapy if that's the right thing for him.
I hear you on the difficulty of the "I don't know's." One thing that can sometimes help with that is to invite the other person to just think aloud, even if what they're saying isn't very coherent or they're not certain about it. You can say that while he may not know for sure, you're very interested in whatever he does know, even if he's not sure about it or his feelings don't seem like they'd make any sense to anyone, or even himself.
You might feel like even just saying things like that hurt him, but there's nothing hurtful in a statement like that. Same goes for the idea that saying things like this makes things worse: I'm doubting that. It may be HARD for him, and it may be that he has hard feelings about the impact of all of this on you, but I don't think that's a bad thing. In the event he doesn't hear what you're actually saying, and instead only hears the messages in his own head, I think hearing it less only makes those messages more sticky while more practice, as it were, hearing what you're actually saying is probably what'll make it more likely that eventually, he'll hear you through the din of whatever is in his own head.
I'm sure you know how it is: with our hardest stuff, the only way out is through, and sometimes those hard feelings in the process of getting to the other side are feelings we'll be glad for later when we have more resolved feelings and issues down the road because of it. You can always be sure to be kind in your speech, give good aftercare to each other with hard discussions, et cetera.
Is he a reader, by any chance? If so, one book I'd suggest that sounds like it might be a good fit for him is, "SexSmart: How Your Childhood Shaped Your Sexual Life and What to Do with It," by Aline P. Zoldbrod Ph.D. It does a great job of giving people education and insight about inherited sexual attitudes and frameworks, and help working on those that are negative, destructive or otherwise just not beneficial. An if that turns out to be valuable to him, it might also be something that makes him feel more inclined to follow through with therapy if that's the right thing for him.
I hear you on the difficulty of the "I don't know's." One thing that can sometimes help with that is to invite the other person to just think aloud, even if what they're saying isn't very coherent or they're not certain about it. You can say that while he may not know for sure, you're very interested in whatever he does know, even if he's not sure about it or his feelings don't seem like they'd make any sense to anyone, or even himself.
Have you ever said that, just like that, to him? If not, that strikes me as very important and valuable. In fact, I wonder if perhaps talking more about your feelings with all of this and how it's impacting you might give him some cues and starting points to talk about his own.I think the trickiest part for me is on the one hand being sympathetic and understanding of how my partner feels but at the same time taking care of myself. I know I won't really help him in any way by saying yes when I mean no or agreeing to something I am just not in the mood for, but if he's going to feel hurt or unhappy in any way over it, it's just harder to be firm.
You might feel like even just saying things like that hurt him, but there's nothing hurtful in a statement like that. Same goes for the idea that saying things like this makes things worse: I'm doubting that. It may be HARD for him, and it may be that he has hard feelings about the impact of all of this on you, but I don't think that's a bad thing. In the event he doesn't hear what you're actually saying, and instead only hears the messages in his own head, I think hearing it less only makes those messages more sticky while more practice, as it were, hearing what you're actually saying is probably what'll make it more likely that eventually, he'll hear you through the din of whatever is in his own head.
I'm sure you know how it is: with our hardest stuff, the only way out is through, and sometimes those hard feelings in the process of getting to the other side are feelings we'll be glad for later when we have more resolved feelings and issues down the road because of it. You can always be sure to be kind in your speech, give good aftercare to each other with hard discussions, et cetera.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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Sunshine
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Re: Consent vs affirmation
Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll check it out.
Again, thank you so much for taking the time to reply and for being so helpful and individual about it. It sometimes really helps to get an outside perspective.
Again, thank you so much for taking the time to reply and for being so helpful and individual about it. It sometimes really helps to get an outside perspective.
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Heather
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Re: Consent vs affirmation
You're welcome: I hope that it helps you out, and I'm happy to lend an ear or more feedback should you want ongoing support around this.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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Sunshine
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Re: Consent vs affirmation
Just stopping by briefly to say thank you again, Heather, for your help here and to report back there's been progress.
I followed your advice and focused more on explaining my side of the problem to my partner, instead of addressing his issues. I told him about the books and said I would be willing to talk any time he wanted to, but aside from that, I have kept my mouth shut.
I don't know whether he has sought any outside help, but he seems more relaxed now. I think it was helpful that I talked more about my own limits and problems, and that I have demonstrated how, unlike in the past, I am now quite capable of taking care of myself and making sure I don't get hurt. He said he is relieved that he doesn't have to look out for me so much. I suspect we were both trying to take care of each other more than was helpful...
It also turned out that I hadn't made clear enough that I am really comfortable with him being sexual with himself while I am around. Also that "No intercourse right now please" does not mean "No sex at all".
Anyway, long story short, as soon as I backed off and focused on my needs, he thawed and was more open about his and we came up with like ten possible solutions. We just had the most amazing, sexy, intimate weekend and I feeling so grateful to you for giving the push in the right direction .
I followed your advice and focused more on explaining my side of the problem to my partner, instead of addressing his issues. I told him about the books and said I would be willing to talk any time he wanted to, but aside from that, I have kept my mouth shut.
I don't know whether he has sought any outside help, but he seems more relaxed now. I think it was helpful that I talked more about my own limits and problems, and that I have demonstrated how, unlike in the past, I am now quite capable of taking care of myself and making sure I don't get hurt. He said he is relieved that he doesn't have to look out for me so much. I suspect we were both trying to take care of each other more than was helpful...
It also turned out that I hadn't made clear enough that I am really comfortable with him being sexual with himself while I am around. Also that "No intercourse right now please" does not mean "No sex at all".
Anyway, long story short, as soon as I backed off and focused on my needs, he thawed and was more open about his and we came up with like ten possible solutions. We just had the most amazing, sexy, intimate weekend and I feeling so grateful to you for giving the push in the right direction .