Sorry this is long

[amberrobert]

Hi

So I’m going to have to give some context.
This is about my best friend (17F) (let’s call her A) and and another friend(ish) (17M) (more of a friendly acquaintance who has friends in common with me) that was quite close to A (let’s call him B). B invited A and me to his birthday party, I declined the invite bc the day before I had another party and I am not close to him or his other friends, but A decided to go. The next day A came to my place crying. She told me that she had gotten a bit tipsy and that B had spent the night flirting with her, and trying to kiss her and grope her, but she kept refusing his advances. B’s friends and A and I’s male friends pressured her to give him a « birthday kiss ». A bit tipsy she went to the bathroom where she bumped into B, she agreed to give him this birthday kiss so that she would be left alone. He locked the door and started snogging her and tried to take her clothes off. She wasn’t clear about what happened next but apparently he tried to pressure her to have sex with him as « a birthday gift » and said she had to since he had told his friends she would. I don’t know to what point they got but she told me somebody knocked on the bathroom door so she used the excuse to leave, and left the party.
Since the morning after where she had a meltdown at my place she avoids the subject but she’s clearly upset and sad since she told B she didn’t want to be friends with him anymore. She told me she doesn’t want me to mention it since B and her have a lot of male friends in common that she thinks they won’t take her seriously.

I’m worried about her, she has depressive tendencies and events like this can trigger her. She’s leaving for two weeks for her grand parents place and I’m scared she’s going to isolate herself there and get depressed. I’m heartbroken that she’s clearly distressed but doesn’t want to talk about it and I’m too far away to really comfort her.

I’m disappointed in myself because I let her go to a party only accompanied with male friends that don’t take anything in life seriously. Boys don’t tend to do those things when I’m around because unfortunately similar situations have happened to me and I physically hurt the boys to defend myself and so I think my male friends and acquaintances are scared of me.
I’m disappointed that I can’t even trust my male friends.

I don’t know what to do I’m angry and sad and extremely worried about my friend. Is this attempted rape? Should I push the subject and try to comfort her more or should I respect her wishes to forget and move on ?

[Heather]

Hey there. I am so sorry to hear about this and how you’re feeling.

I don’t have the ability right now to give this the attention it needs, I was just checking on the boards while off. But I wanted to post to let you know if another staff member doesn’t get to this tonight or before me tomorrow, this post is earmarked as my first thing.

I hope you can take it a little easy on yourself tonight. This is not your fault. It’s B’s, who chose to do these things to A.

[Mo]

Hi amberrobert,

First off, I want to echo what Heather said above: this is a terrible thing that happened, but it isn't your fault at all. B made the choice to sexually assault A (and that is absolutely how I'd describe what happened: sexual assault and attempted rape); the fault is his. You really can't know what might have happened if you'd gone along as well, so I hope you can focus on doing what you can to support your friend now and not beat yourself up over not going to the party as well.

In terms of what to do and how to support your friend: I think it'll be helpful if you can offer her the support she asks for, even if you'd rather be doing something else like confronting B directly or talking with her more about it. One way that might be helpful to think about this is that A just experienced a scary situation in which her own agency was being ignored, and allowing her to set the terms of what kind of support she receives is a way to give her some of that agency back.

If she doesn't want to talk more about what happened, you can help by asking her what would help most right now: would she like you to send her some lighthearted pictures or videos, or something else distracting? Would she appreciate the reminder that if she ever wants to discuss what happened in the future, you'll be there to listen and support her? Would she like you to not mention B or any of the other guys who were at the party pressuring her to kiss B for the foreseeable future? Having some concrete ways you can support her right now might make you feel a little better. Even if she isn't interested in talking about it right now, I think she will appreciate having a friend who's looking out for her emotional wellbeing.

I do think this is a very clear sign that B, at the very least, is not a safe person to spend time with socially, and it sounds like a lot of his friends at that party aren't safe either, since they were pressuring A to kiss him. No one is ever owed sex or a kiss as a "birthday present," and anyone pressuring someone into that doesn't understand the basics of consent and isn't someone I'd recommend being around at all! I can understand why you'd be disappointed in these friends; they took part in something really terrible.

[amberrobert]

Thank you very much for the advice, I’m genuinely thankful for this platform.

I’ve talked with A and she wants to move on and doesn’t feel like talking about it now, maybe later, she doesn’t want it to ruin her summer. I’m still a bit worried because she tends to compartmentalise and then isolate. So I’ve promised myself I’ll be positive and check up on her the most possible (without nagging).

She still wants to hang out with the boys though, even though I want to at least distance myself. This is all very confusing since we had initially become their friends because they presented themselves as progressive and feminist allies, especially B. In our previous friend group that was larger, there had been an accusation of rape towards a guy (that was very believable, outside of the fact that I always believe the victim), so we had left the group and later on became friends with B and his friends, since they felt safe. Honestly most of them have a brotherly link with us, they joke with us, they even prepared us birthday parties. But then when they get drunk they flirt with us and are genuinely confused when we don’t want to have sex. I don’t know. I think that they don’t fully see us a 3 dimensional people and see us as sexual beings first. French men are very forceful and egotistical, I think that most think that because a woman isn’t condemned if she has sex anymore, that she always wants to have sex and don’t understand why she wouldn’t. A thinks I’m being dramatic. But if B the most feminist and most progressive of them all thought that sex was owed to him how can I trust the others? A thinks I shouldn’t condemn Bs friends for Bs mistakes. I don’t know.
I guess I’ll see but be wary though, which is a shame.

Thanks again for the advice, sorry venting again

[Carly]

Hey amberrobert -- it's totally ok to vent here, I'm so sorry this situation is so complicated. It sounds like you know A's tendencies well - though I think it's good to check up on her and be there for her as much as you can, it's important to also understand her boundaries as well. Is she self-aware of her habit of compartmentalizing and isolating?

I would be disappointed about B and B's friends too. I'm sorry if I missed this, but do they know about what happened between B and A?

[Mo]

I will say, too, that it sounds like a lot of B's friends were putting pressure on A to kiss B, which is not great behavior on its own! Just because they didn't assault A doesn't mean they weren't engaging in some bad behavior too.

[amberrobert]

A knows that she tends to isolate, but she generally realises after she has done it (or maybe during), sometimes she misses school and doesn’t answer my messages, but she apologises after, but I don’t really mind because I can generally sense when she isn’t going to be well, so I try my best before but I know that during i can’t really do anything, and that it isn’t her fault.
I don’t know what the guys know, my guy « friends » seem to think that she kissed him but that she didn’t want to have sex, but they haven’t indicated that they know about B’s attitude.
I’m not friends anymore with them because yesterday I got roofied at the french national holiday, I was alone because my male friend (also friends with B) had left me to have sex with a girl even though I told him I didn’t feel safe. Long story short we got in a fight and I’ve learnt my lesson, I simply can’t trust a man.
Here I am venting again but normally this will be the last time since I don’t ever want to see those guys again and I’m seriously questioning my capacity to choose good friends

[Mo]

Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry to hear that someone did that to you, and that your friend then left you when you were vulnerable and feeling unsafe. I can understand why you'd want to cut ties with those friends, after all of this.
How can we best support you right now?

[amberrobert]

Honestly not much, I’m just going to wait until I feel better. I was supposed to stay over my guy friend’s place and party all July but I’ve left and I’m just going to stay away and wait till I can see my other female friends, they’re all somewhere else on holiday. It’s going to be lonely but honestly the red flags can’t get any redder. I’m a bit traumatised, not going to lie, being drugged in the middle of the street alone half unconscious wasn’t the best experience, but luckily I wasn’t raped (I can’t remember but the hospital ran some tests) and some woman found me quickly.
I don’t think I can trust a man ever again, I’m not trying to be a misandrist but honestly I just can’t anymore.
How can you be my best friend then tell everyone I’m a bitch and a crazy feminist just because I cut ties with your friend who was accused of rape ?
How can you proclaim to be a feminist ally then sexually assault your closest female friend?
How can you throw me a surprise birthday party tell me I’m the sister you never had then leave me alone to be drugged when it’s all over the news that every night especially at big occasions girls are being roofied?
All these male friends have stabbed me in the back, and I just can’t anymore.
I don’t understand

[Michaela]

I am so sorry about everything you and your friend have been going through, amberrobert. It is infuriating and upsetting. It sounds to me like you are making good choices to find another place to stay for a while. Other than some of the female friends you mentioned, is there anyone else trusted that you could reach out to at the moment (family, family friends, etc)?

That was an awful experience you had to go through and all the things you are feeling are completely understandable. If you would like we could help you locate some local resources and support services.

[amberrobert]

Hi! Sorry for the late response

I ended up talking a bit with my mum. It really helped

My pent up rage against men has dimmed down lol but I’m not ready to have new male friendships yet, or maybe at all idk I’ll see. Romantically, I don’t have any experience with men but friendship wise this felt a bit like the final nail in the coffin. It hurts that I’ve lost friends and that I misplaced my trust, but I’m moving on.
I stayed in contact with A while she was away, and honestly she’s doing well, just a bit sad that we were betrayed by our friends. She’s still in contact with 2 of the boys (not B lol). I heard that the whole roofing incident and me cutting ties created chaos in the friend group and I have a feeling that some of the boys know what really happened between A and B because A told me there was an argument between some of the guys, but officially (on social media) they’re all still friends. I cut ties with all of them, I don’t care anymore.
Anyways, tomorrow I’m seeing A, and we are going to spend some time with the other girls at my grand parents place near the sea, so I’d say all is well.

I’d like to thank all of you for the support you provided, it was really helpful. I’m glad that I’ve found this forum/website! I’m really thankful for your patience and for listening to my rants, it was reassuring to know somebody was listening.

[Mo]

I'm glad you've been able to stay in contact with A and that you're going to spend some time together soon. Hopefully you all will have a wonderful time!

You're very welcome; we're glad we were able to help. We're always happy to listen if you need to talk more in the future.