I don’t think I can vote for Joe Biden in good conscious

[thewrit3r]

I’ve seen many of my friends express grief when Bernie Sanders dropped out of the democratic presidential race and did not support Joe Biden because of his past comments/inappropriate actions (and sexual harassment/assault accusations) toward women. I did my digging (I wasn’t aware of this before) and it just made me feel so uncomfortable. I do not believe that I, in good conscious, could vote for Biden, but that would mean it’s even more likely for Trump to win, and he’s been accused of NUMEROUS cases of sexual assault/harassment (not to mention his gross “grab ‘em by the pussy” comment he made before he won the presidency) and people overlooked it because, well, screw women I guess I don’t know what’s going to happen during this election. I absolutely do not want Trump in office again for a plethora of reasons, but I can’t vote for another rapist. I know we have time before Election Day but I don’t know. I’m not liking my options right now :/

[bikinksterboy]

AFAIK Bernie hasn't actually dropped out. he's just suspended his campaign. he is still in the race though.

[Amanda F.]

Hey thewrit3r,

I hear you. It's a terrible feeling to have to choose between two bad choices, and it's painful every day to see people rally behind powerful men who have been accused of sexual harassment/assault, instead of supporting candidates who *are* women or who at least have been decent people.

I can't tell you how to proceed in the next election - that's a personal choice. In this circumstance, we have to remember that one of the candidates WILL end up becoming president - and we can try to put the lesser of two evils in office, even though it feels so crappy to do that.

When Trump was elected Scarleteen put out a guide called Rebel Well: A Starter Survival Guide To A Trumped America. You may find some of the material in there helpful, comforting, or inspiring.

Hypothetically speaking, if you did vote for Biden and he won, are there actions you would want to take after the election to demonstrate that having a harasser in office (of any kind) isn't okay with you and this is the last time you want to see it happen? You absolutely have a voice, which includes but is not limited to your vote, and you can speak up to say what isn't acceptable in candidates - both before and after the election.

[thewrit3r]

Hi, Amanda,

It’s always nice to know that Scarleteen is a place where I can find someone who understands even if I can’t elsewhere, helping affirm my beliefs and that I’m not “overreacting,” so thank you for that

That’s an awesome guide! I’ll definitely check it out, especially since I don’t think I’ll be able to stay silent much longer and have to speak up.

I think that’s the problem: speaking up. I haven’t done it in a way that I feel is effective. I support several organizations that promote social justice (NARAL, the UN, ACLU) but I don’t do much activism with them (if any at all). The most I’ve done is write about issues, and some of that has been published online, but I don’t know if that’s enough. I feel more comfortable bringing light to an issue through writing, but maybe it’s time I step outside my comfort zone and put myself out there more. Taking calculated risks has always been the way progress has been made, so it’s going to take some building self confidence on my part to get to a place where I feel like I’m doing my part and am able to deal with the consequences.

I just feel so frustrated because people listen but not enough, at least the people in power. People are saying that they’re voting Biden because he’s lesser than the two evils, but they don’t even mention that he’s been accused of harassing/making so many women feel uncomfortable (and I think that’s the key point here: men don’t seem to GET why women are so uncomfortable with yet another man in power who’s used his power to abuse people).

I mentioned this a while back (before everything went down with corona) but there’s a sexual harasser who’s a professor at my school, and I’ve heard of other people experiencing harassment at school, and there seems to be nothing I can do about it. I don’t know if anyone would want to go to the police but even if they did, if I don’t have concrete proof I can’t take it anywhere (which I understand but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating). And in spite of what I said then, I still haven’t reached out to any offices or advocacy groups dealing with sexual harassment because if I’m not a survivor of harassment, what right do I really have to be using these resources? I know I want to help people but is there any support for people who haven’t personally been affected by harassment but know people who have and want to do something about it, even if it’s just ranting/finding emotional support/etc?

[0PT1M15T1C]

I think the feelings you’re having are so completely understandable.

My mom, brother and I were all born in the states and my brother and I are dual citizens. Needless to say, we stay involved in what happens in the states. My mom supported Elizabeth Warren (and for that matter so did I, but like I can’t vote yet, and even then we vote in Tennessee and I remember as far as senate there wasn’t even a democrat option as far as I know), however it was clear that she wasn’t doing well for whatever reason and we’ve always supported Bernie. Hearing him “drop out” or whatever did end up happening there, my mom was so mad and disappointed she wouldn’t say a word she said we can talk next week about it.

I don’t want her voting for Biden, he’s an ass but also, I don’t want Trump in. Neither are good options really like Amanda said. I’m really quite upset personally due to the fact that I’ve seen the videos of Biden around women and how uncomfortable he makes them - it’s gross. Also, where the hell has Biden been while Bernie was working his butt off campaigning. I’m really quite upset.

Too, my family in the states, most of them are trump supporters and although I try not to let politics come between my family, when they are saying this Coronavirus is a hoax in order to not get trump re-elected... I literally left the call when that conversation started. My sister, thankfully has common sense as well as I think my aunt. That’s it though and knowing that by voting for someone like trump, they actually are voting against my rights. I’m a trans person and hearing my family talk about those things, in the way they do...there’s a reason my family in the states don’t know about my identity.

I’m also someone who’s experienced sexual violence, as has my mom and knowing someone’s in office that has been accused of it I don’t even know where to start. Even without that proof, it’s incredibly frustrating, but people don’t usually make that stuff up. I’ve been accused of it by my abuser (she also accused other guys too which
Is just...sweetie... no.. anyways) I try to see the best in people and do look for that proof when possible, but it’s also pretty clear when someone is lying.. the women coming forward arent. Like the things they face by coming forward is just insane and like I commend them for doing so.

I don’t often mention to people that I’m from the state’s, because honestly, I’m embarrassed of it. It kind of feels powerless in the sense that I can’t realistically much. It terrifies me not knowing what’s going to happen, I have friends in the states that because of Trump, teachers got the excuse to not use the right pronouns or name, or straight up out or bully them really for being who they are. My friend is dropping out because he can’t take it anymore between the gun issues... on three occasions kids brought a gun to school, his friend got in a fight, and they didn’t specify “guns down gloves up” is what it’s called... so his friend was shot. There’s SO many things that just don’t make sense to me and I hate about what’s going on down there. And I mean, I don’t totally support Trudeau up here, but like he’s better than the conservatives, so I’ll take it. He’s not taking away my rights.

I hope it’s okay I made that addition, this just hit way too close to home not to. I don’t know what my mom is going to do either, but if Bernie drops out, I swear.

Also, like I remember the LGBT suicides the night that Trump was elected and that was heartbreaking. So freaking heartbreaking and I really hope we don’t have a repeat. I remember that like the back of my hand reading through the names. Also, it was the worlds worst birthday, his inauguration was on my birthday, so I got to sit in class and watch the country I grew up in basically fall apart.

[Heather]

I didn't chime in on this for a while, and I'll say a little about why. It's also part of what I think I can offer here for you, thewrit3r, but also anyone else in this thread or otherwise feeling this way.

I GET IT.

Oh boy, do I get it. When Warren dropped out, after I spent several days scooping my guts off the floor (just like I spent months doing after 2016) I decided that I was done with actively participating in this presidential primary, and probably this election, full-stop, until it's time to vote. That was an epically unusual and very difficult choice for me to make, because I have literally been involved in politics -- including electoral politics -- very actively since I was a child in the 70s. Once she did, there wasn't anyone left for me that I felt comfortable actively supporting (yes, including Sanders before he also dropped out, which I'm sorry to say to those who didn't want that, he has: his name remains on the primary ballot, but he did drop out weeks ago now and has endorsed Biden), and that's an epic understatement.

Right now, you're right: we are left with voting between two men, one of whom is basically giant evil and has a sea scroll's worth of women he has violated and abused (including a colleague of mine, no less). The other isn't that, but has a long history of boundary violations, again with women (he also hasn't been great with people with disability), and now one open report of outright sexual assault. You're right that these are both bad choices, you're right that it is beyond the pale this is the choice we're all faced with, especially those of us who are survivors.

When I think back to my whole voting history in this country, and to what I know about abuse and assault statistics, especially with perpetrators who have political power, I think it's probably fair to say that it's been rare that for any given election I've voted in, it's pretty likely that at least one person I have voted for on the whole of a ballot (as in, not just a POTUS vote) probably has engaged in abuse.

That, too, is garbage and isn't a situation we should find ourselves in. Any history of abuse or assault should be disqualifying. Period.

But, of course, it's not. That's extra unsurprising in a nation founded through colonialism and all it involves, usually very much including sexual assault. That's certainly a big part of the political history of this nation, all the way back to the first colonizers here.

So, what can we do?

I decided that the best thing I could do here for myself was to just exempt myself from participating any further in the primary or any further in the POTUS part of this election, save voting when it's time. And yep, when it's time, if these are the only two choices I have to make, I will vote for Biden, even though I really don't want to. I just don't see any other option that can help change the situation for, for instance, everyone still in ICE detention, or for refugees who need a safe place to go, or for maintaining reproductive rights or any number of vital things that save lives and the quality of those lives. I feel like the choice is literal fascist who is absolutely a serial rapist or shitty dude who is a serial boundary violator and maybe also a rapist, and while that's a crummy choice, I know one of those choices is objectively better than the other, particularly with what the larger outcomes are.

I don't have a horse in this race, and I haven't since Warren -- and several others before her -- dropped out. And I don't want to, and I know it's not good for me to try and defend people who are abusive, so I'm not going to do that. I'm also not going to argue or otherwise engage with people who have treated me poorly politically in the past about any of this (particularly since that's usually been around hidden or unacknowledged sexism and that's the primary reason we find ourselves here).

I'm also just done being forced to vote for men, period -- and usually mediocre white men, at that, when highly qualified women as well as men of color were running -- but I will deal with that after this election.

What I decided I'm going to do instead is to actively support people -- particularly women and BIPOC -- running down ticket, particularly in races I care about where a) there is actually a choice for a fully solid human involved, and b) those tickets really matter. Like Gina Ortiz Jones in TX, Sarah McBride in DE or Amy McGrath running to unseat Mitch McConnell (!), for instance: I've contributed to her campaign and will likely make phone calls or texts for her, too (I'm not in KY, so door-knocking is out).

None of that is to say that's what you or anyone else has to do. If you (any of you) just can't bring yourself to vote for either of these men, period, I understand and I support you. Even though writing someone in on this ticket would be symbolic and a non-vote, if that's what you feel you need to do, I get that, too. I just put all my stuff up here in the event it's helpful and to be in solidarity with you in expressing that this is a bullshit, horrible choice.

[alice]

Hi thewrit3r,

I am briefly back volunteering with Scarleteen while I have a break in my grad school schedule -- I remember your posts from before I left! I always appreciate the thoughtful things you share on the boards

I especially appreciate this post, which I resonate with very deeply. There is so much important stuff that you have brought up here. I have been thinking a lot about my response -- given the rich posts left above by Heather and 0PT1M15T1C, I am going to try limit myself to the a few practical-level things I am thinking about, in case they are of use to you.

Three things that I am passionate about right now, given the painful reality of Biden being the 2020 Democratic nominee:

1. Doing what we can to move Biden to the left.
I am very inspired by the youth-led social justice movements in America today and look toward them for wisdom and strategy during times of political upheaval (aka all times ). A number of the largest youth-led political organizations [March for our Lives, Sunrise Movement, United We Dream, and more] wrote this letter to Biden that I found very helpful to read. Here's the link if you want to check it out:
Dear Joe Biden, Here Is How You Can Earn Our Support

2. Supporting progressives candidates running for other positions/offices.
As Heather elaborated on in their post.

3. Getting (or staying) involved in the social movements that matter to us.
An organizer and writer that I often to look to, Yotam Marom, wrote after Bernie ended his campaign: "The truth is, our movement wasn't there yet - not just to win an election like this, but to protect that win, to make transformation out of it, to win peace at the other end. There is no skipping ahead. Elections are not how our people will take power. They will be, when we are strong enough, the expression of the power we have already taken." To me this is a reminder to keep putting our time, energy, money, resources, and love into progressive movements, to keep struggling to build power and make change, and along the way hopefully creating the foundation for a progressive candidate to win the American presidency.

And along with those three things, I am also invested in honoring my feelings, grieving, connecting, taking good care of myself...the things that are necessary for any kind of sustained political engagement! So those are a few things on my mind and in my heart, take what feels of use of you, and leave all the rest behind of course

[cityofthedead]

I hope you don’t mind me chiming in, but I’d like to share that I believe we can support a certain candidate while discouraging some of their behavior. It’s not like we’re voting for someone to embolden ourselves or others in engaging in antisocial behavior. For example, a Trump-supporter I know proudly stands by the president’s stances on this country’s economy and infrastructure, but also believes we should educate others to prevent emboldenment by the president’s or any other political figure’s behavior with women. No president (nobody) is or was perfect. We all have our inner demons. We all have done (and will continue to do) things that we ourselves and/or others are ashamed of. If voting for someone with even just a short little anecdote of sexual misconduct posted on one news site is against your conscience and/or values, I will respectfully leave you to that. I‘m just sharing my own belief that there are and have been people this country has significantly benefited from the authority of, even though their behavior in person is not always acceptable.

[Heather]

Respectfully, sexually assault isn't no big deal or something minor, particularly to the person it has been done to. It is a violent crime and serious and intentional harm done that has lifelong impact on its victims and survivors. It also isn't just someone's "inner demons." Sexual abuse, assault or harassment are all active behaviours, criminal ones, at that, done intentionally TO others, not a feeling or thought that is kept inside.

I just want to leave this here, particularly as a reminder of how many of us here are survivors, so suggesting that our abuses or assaults are "little anecdotes posted on news sites" when they are assaults reported in the news is really not okay with me, and feels very hurtful.

You likely didn't mean to do this, cityofthedead, but this post, to me, feels very, very deeply dismissive to those of us who have been assaulted or otherwise abused. It also feels like it diminishes what sexual abuse is and what it does. I suspect that if it was a crime you yourself or someone you loved experienced and were living with the many lifelong impacts of (absolutely including often being disqualified from even being considered for positions those who engage in abuse have, if you can handle that awful irony) you would feel very differently.

[cityofthedead]

I thought I held a position that I could share honestly and unintrusively here. For that, I’m sorry. Sexual abuse and assault is a big deal no matter who is involved and I will be more careful what I say, how I say it, and where I say it in future. I’m sorry if I’ve hurt anyone with my previous posts. I understand that even this area of the boards isn’t nearly about politics as much as it is meant to be a space to talk about issues that affect the daily lives of some of us. I strive to be nonpartisan, neutral about politics, not deeply supporting or opposing any person or policy in the government, but supporting people’s civil rights when they are at stake. In future, I will only say something here that directly corresponds to what was previously shared on the boards, not just “share my position” thinking that it won’t affect somebody else even when I say or imply it doesn’t intend to.

[Heather]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this, but I appreciate your apology. Thank you.

There's a very old saying in the feminist movement: "The personal is political." That's more complicated than it looks on the face of it, but what that effectively means is that we can't separate politics and people's lives because politics are both about and deeply impact people's lives. Politics aren't objective, they're subjective, in all directions. Politics aren't separate from our daily lives.

This is about politics, and I don't understand the suggestion it isn't because I'm asking that sexual abuse be treated like the serious crime that it is. This isn't a partisan issue, either.

I think it also might help to remember that part of civil rights is the right of any of us to have autonomy over our bodies. Our civil rights *are* at stake when people are allowed to engage in sexual assaults with both no consequences, and are even allowed to seek the highest power in our land despite a history of violent crimes and without having to answer to those crimes.

[cityofthedead]

Thank you. I kinda rushed that last post. There are some things about politics that I am neutral about (like certain ways the government should distribute taxes, for example) but I am vigilant and take seriously accusations of harmful and illegal behavior and when the rights and safety of others are at stake, even if it is against someone I care about. (I’m not a fan of Biden or Trump myself but I know people who are and who know full well about their sexual assault accusations) Thank you, again, for this. I will keep all this in mind when I go to the booths to vote later this year.

[thewrit3r]

Hi, everyone,

Thanks for chiming in. Heather, I came to the conclusion of voting for Biden if it came down to it, but I didn’t know if that made me a crummy person. I mean I know I’m not, but I’m playing the “lesser of two evils” card here and it feels shitty to be honest. I have some friends who have, unfortunately, been victims of sexual assault and they are devastated by who’s left to elect now. Normally I say vote for the lesser of the two evils but in this case I won’t. I completely understand why people wouldn’t put Biden in office. I would not feel safe or comfortable if I directly worked with him or someone like him seeing what he’s done to people. I was trying to rectify with myself that voting for Biden doesn’t make me a band person, but does that mean I’m endorsing his behavior? I still believe having Trump in office is infinitely worse, but I am disgusted by that kind of behavior. I’m seeing so much now how often men get away with assaulting women, harassing them, and just making them feel uncomfortable and I hate it. I hate how this is the norm. I hate how people don’t believe women because I guess people just hate women I know people don’t believe men but I’ve noticed a subset of people who will always defend men no matter what and ONLY point out when a woman assaults a man and it makes me sick. If you cared about people you would support ALL victims of assault, not just a few people because of their gender, because you like them, etc. I know I got off topic but this whole mentality where we just accept men abusing women is so wrong and I hate how we’re okay with it collectively as a society. And I definitely see it rooted in history. The question is how do we change the history so it’s not the norm?

[Heather]

I so, so hear you on all of this. And for sure, as a survivor, this is devastating. As a feminist, it's devastating, especially when we had a handful -- not just one, several! -- highly qualified women running (and same goes for Black and brown men), and of course, the longer it went on, the more it came down to a pool of mediocre white men, per effing usual.

I think how we change things is multi-facteted, but I think with American government, working from the bottom up, from smaller positions to larger ones, rather than top down, is going to be the way to go. The House already is stacked with way more women from the last mid-term election than it was before, and if we can keep that wave up in both House and Senate (as well as things like Governorships, city council spots, alderpeople, etc.) soon enough we will be at the point where even when we have someone who is crap as President, it won't really matter because heir power will be so limited comparatively, and they'll have to get past everyone else, you know? That's only one piece, but it's a start.

I was (to perhaps no one's surprise who knows me) a very hardcore Warren supporter and also a very hardcore Julián Castro supporter. I have feelings about Warren's endorsement of Biden (though I suspect she's doing her version of what those of us who will vote for him if we have to is), but she is keeping up a list of endorsements in the House and Senate that I think might be a good starting place for other candidates in the House and Senate to support if you want one: https://elizabethwarren.com/endorsements

[cityofthedead]

I used to think that men becoming rich and successful and taking up important positions with sexual misconduct allegations on their records was so commonplace that it didn’t even matter anymore. It does. We don’t have to and shouldn’t be desensitized to the problem with men with a history of disrespect towards women becoming the ones with power. There are all kinds of men out there who are absolutely respectful and caring for other people regardless of anything about them. We need to give more respect and attention to those guys if we don’t want another election to boil down like it did this year.

[Heather]

It should be disqualifying, period. (And while I don't like half of the reason -- homophobia - this would be the case, if it had been men or boys any of these men sexually abused, it *would* be disqualifying, because the other half is because it's not for women because, as thewrit3r said, of misogyny. People care less than they would otherwise in large part because people value women, girls and gender-diverse people less.)

It's not like we don't have people who have NO abuse or assault in their history who aren't just as -- and often even more -- qualified for these positions. I think this is a matter of awkward word choice on your part, but I'd say the people we need to give more respect and attention to are victims of these men, not these men. We should leave these men *without* respect and attention.

[cityofthedead]

Thanks for your input, Heather. You’re right, now that I think about it. We should give respect and attention to those who accuse these men, not to men (or anyone else) with any history of sexual misconduct or lack thereof. I thought I had a decent solution in mind, but I didn’t. I’m learning a lot from you, Heather. Thanks for it all.

[Heather]

You're welcome, and thanks for being open to it. <3

[thewrit3r]

I don’t know why I always forget how important local elections are (my brother is a political science major and is always emphasizing how important is it to be involved in local elections not just the federal ones, because they often affect you more directly). I think it’s because of all the clout/general attention that the president gets, but that doesn’t mean I can’t change things from the bottom down like you said. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is in office, and in North Carolina, my home state, I was one of the people who voted for Governor Roy Cooper, one of the few bright spots in the 2016 election, and seeing how he’s handling the pandemic in spite of opposition is really encouraging. And with social media and people speaking out more we can get stuff done. It’s going to take awhile but that doesn’t mean it’ll never happen.
I know it doesn’t make things great, but it does offer me a silver lining in all this. Thanks, Heather. You always seem to know the right thing to say!

[Heather]

Oh gosh, you're welcome. Honestly, I feel as gutted by all of this as you do, and I can't imagine there *is* a right thing to say, but I'm glad I could give you something of value.

[cityofthedead]

What else can we do to curtail the chances of ending in an election like this again?

[Heather]

I'm just heading out for the day, but one big one is to support the WOMEN running like all of our lives depend on it, every time. It's pretty hard for us to get representation in government without...well, representation on government! Misogyny, sexism (and racism) is a big part of what got us here in all the ways -- after all a serial rapist is currently in office, and the people who voted for him often knew that about him from listening to him literally talk about the ways he assaults women on tape.

The more people who work on their sexism, racism and misogyny -- and everyone has internalized them all to some degree, our world is too full of them not to! -- and the more they counter it with things like actually supporting women in all the ways, the harder it will become for results like this to happen.

[cityofthedead]

Good ideas, thanks!

[Heather]

(P.S. To thewrit3r: if you have the ability to listen to the new Fiona Apple album, it might be just the catharsis you need.)