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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Support Groups » what's so wrong

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Author Topic: what's so wrong
Nailo
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This is going to sound strange, but lately, even though I haven't had a strong feeling of depression very recently, I started thinking that suicide was more scandalous than people made it out to be. Not to do it myself, but as for other people doing it, I started thinking "so what? it's their life, their choices and decisions...".

I know this is not good. If something were to happen to me and I felt seriously depressed again (and I just had some trouble with some friends, basically because they got wasted and I got mad at them for it and left, and now they're telling me that I have to apologize and... well, it's a long story) I don't want this state of mind. I don't want to find myself sad and thinking that there's nothing really so wrong about killing myself. I have a therapist, but sometimes I wonder if it really works.

Help...

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"Love does not make itself in the desire for copulation, but in the desire for shared sleep." - The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Milan Kundera

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monkeyboy
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It's something I've thought alot about in the past, and even attempted at one stage before I realised that I was being (in my opinion, although I'm sure it's one shared by many) a bit of an idiot, so I got myself to hospital, got fixed up (on a physical level), and was forced answered some very serious questions, both to myself and to others, particularly those I loved. In the end, the pain I had caused them almost infinitely outweighed my own pain. That's not to say that my own feelings were to be taken lightly. But I had no real idea of what impact this all would have had.

The way I've been seeing suicide since then, (whenever I've had time to think of anything other than university) is that it really is something of a last resort, and in a lot of ways, it is kind of selfish. The way I see it, everyone is ultimately their own "god", their own master: despite what I may feel at times, when all is said and done I'm entirely in control of my life, and I can make decisions and choices to steer myself wherever I so choose. That said, of course there are times when I've felt that I'm either on auto-pilot, or I'm crashing altogether. These are the times that I have to stop, take a long hard look at myself, and take stock.

- Do I have individual's in my life that care for me? Yes.
- Would my suicide impact upon others negatively? Yes.
- Am I prepared to cause pain and grief that I couldn't even
begin to comprehend to those around me? No.
- Am I admitting defeat? Is this what I really want? Will this solve
the problem? Yes. No. No.
- Is there perhaps a better option for me? Absolutely.

It helps to talk these things over with someone/anyone. It can be really hard to talk about. The first time I tried to explain how I felt to someone face to face, I didn't even make it halfway through my second word before breaking down and crying. But that was a good sign, I guess. In a way it meant that suicide wasn't what I really wanted at all. What I really wanted was a way out from what I was feeling, and that I WAS still capable of feeling, of caring for those around me.


Talk to someone, talk to anyone.


For me, I found talking to a phone counsellor here in Australia was a fantastic first step. I could talk to someone impartial: they didn't know me, I didn't know them, and so I guess that a lot of what we discussed was really clear, it wasn't crowded by any emotional connections that I would have had discussing the issues with someone I knew.

Sorry if this has been a bit of an epic read, but I guess I'm just in the typing sort of mood. I hope you can find some sort of help in all of this rambling. Just remember that there's help out there, and that these feelings can and will pass.

Peace, love and mungbeans
Monkeyboy

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Ecofem
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Nailo, here's my take, to add to monkeyboy's great words.

I've thought about suicide from an ethical standpoint myself, but I don't really feel comfortable debating the "ups and downs" (for a lack of better wording) on the boards in Support Groups. I think the key thing is that you shouldn't have to feel the way you're feeling; it's not your fault and you shouldn't have to feel this way. The question is: what can we/you do to help you feel better? A quarrel with friends, regardless how crappy or hard, should never make us feel that bad. Nothing should. (Don't think about them for now; you don't have to say anything, whatever that might be. If you want to say something, tell them you're dealing with a lot and need some time before you really delve into the issue. Seriously, if this is what's pushing you over the edge in terms of not knowing how to deal, please take a break from them. Do something fun or relaxing totally unrelated, and then come back to it tomorrow or a few days from now.)

You've been through a lot, and I can understand why you're feeling depressed. But, as I said, it's an illness speaking, not your geninue self. It sounds like your therapist isn't the best match right now or that whatever method s/he's using isn't as effectively as hoped. Are you taking an meds? Have you mentioned this to her/him? We want you to feel better and get back to a space/peace of mind where you can see and enjoy the good stuff in life... because for all the bad stuff, there's a lot of good, too. (A dime a dozen advice but I really think it's true, if hard to realize when depressed...) What do you think?

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orca
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I've been there myself. I think I might still have one of the many suicide notes I wrote at the time. It's so weird reading back over it now because now it's funny to me. I was in such a different state back then than I am now. It's like I'm a different person. I tried so many ways, and each time before it got really serious I would stop and think about my poor mother who would have to clean up my body or the blood. Yeah, your family has to do that. The morgue's office may take your body, but your family is stuck cleaning up everything else. Sure, there are services you can hire to do that, but it costs and if your family doesn't have a lot of money then they have to do that themselves.
So I ended up telling my mom and after she stopped flipping out, she got me an appointment with a therapist. It helped, but it took a while.

I'd like to say though that selfish, stupid, and cowardly is NOT what you should call someone who is suicidal. If one of your friends ever approaches you saying they are suicidal, DON'T call them those things. What they need is love and support, not more burdens being pushed on them and namecalling. The namecalling actually has the opposite of the desired effect and just pushes them more into suicidal thoughts, at least that's what I felt when people had called me that.

Yes, we are in control of our own lives and destinies, but are you sure you want to give up on everything when you are still so young? When you are old and dying anyways, then it's different. But now there is still so much left to live for. Even if things look really grim, there's still an entire world out there. For those of us that don't believe in an afterlife, there's all the more reason to live, so you can enjoy every minute of what you have.

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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.--Monty Python and the Holy Grail

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Heather
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You know, as someone who had problems with being suicidal very young, in some respects, I hear what you're saying, Nailo, and I by all means get that...kind of.

But I know that for me, while I certainly respect everyone's right to choose what they do with their own bodies and lives, I also know that what stopped me 100% from even thinking that way, from trying to off myself, was (and pretty close to one another in time, no less) having my father get very close to a woman who then shot herself while alone with her two-year-old (who ended up not being found with her for two days, if you can even imagine), and then quite literally having to wash pieces of brain off the wall of one of the first people I very dearly loved and gave my whole heart to. Talk about a way to find out from the very beginning that love is impermanent: there were a handful of years there were just that event ALONE, not even considering the other awful things I'd been through before, had me at 16-going-on-60. I know, too, that just that one suicide of my young partner then also put me through years or turmoil and agony, involved me having to do a LOT of processing and counseling, and to date, still left lasting scars.

I get it, and got it then -- per how being suicidal is in so many ways an illness, and certainly understand how certain situations can get a person to go there. But I also got after those incidents -- quite viscerally -- and get now, that there are VERY few people in the world who are as completely alone as they think they are (and often, people who suicide know full well they aren't alone: love, partnership, having children, the whole lot, is rarely a deterrent to a suicidal). There is almost always someone else for whom your suicide is like just passing your suffering over unto them. Rough as this may sound, we could very easily take the statement you made here in your post about it just "being their life," and apply it to rapists and other abusers: when we're ONLY thinking of them, it's "just their life," too. But it ISN'T only about them: very little of what actions any of us do in the world is.

As someone who does a whole lot of work in terms of trying to get people to be more compassionate and empathic, to really consider the world as a whole and the people near them when making personal choices, I still have to come to the conclusion that like most everything else in the world, suicide is NOT just about us or our life. That -- in my mind, and in the way I see the world as being a far better place -- like most else, when our choices and action clearly (and knowingly, often even intentionally -- a lot of suicide notes in history have referenced feelings of suicide being a way to finallt "make people care" or get noticed and valued) DO effect others, we need to do our level best to consider them.

(Depression, for the record -- and suicidal impulses are certainly a product of such -- is often presented as manifesting some "selfishness," which isn't totally off, but I'd suggest reframing it instead as a sort of emotional myopia, if you follow me. Chemically, some of what it does is create a sort of apathetic and emotional haze where it's just earnestly hard, sometimes even impossible, for the person suffering with it to really be able to see outside of themselves and their own suffering. Which, of course, says quite a bit about some of why/how suicides happen.)

[ 05-17-2007, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Nailo
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Who knows, maybe I do have clinical depression. It really wouldn't surprise me, I've lived my whole life with the idea that "something's gotta go wrong, cause I'm feeling way too damn good". And considering I've been crying at least once a month since I can't even remember when, it would explain a lot.

How do I know? Do I have to take any kind of test or something? I'm afraid to talk to my mother about this and for her to blow me off. I don't know of anyone in my family who has it, except for my grandmother who is a chronic anxiety sufferer, which leads to asthma attacks(she's pretty paranoid, and if there's nothing to worry about, she watches the news so she can find things to worry about). Are there other causes? Is there a chance that I might have developed it?

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"Love does not make itself in the desire for copulation, but in the desire for shared sleep." - The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Milan Kundera

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orca
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If there is a family history, depression can sometimes appear during the teenage years, especially around puberty.

Your symptoms have to be pretty much nonstop for at least 2 weeks in order for it to be diagnosed as depression. It includes feelings of worthlessness, changes in sleep habits (sleeping more or sleeping less), changes in eating habits (eating more or eating less), decrease in sexual desire, inability to focus, loss of energy, self-loating, self-doubt, irritability, and a lot more. Here's a site that lists the symptoms:
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/depression_signs_types_diagnosis_treatment.htm#signs

You can also have what is known as a minor depressive episode, which is when you have symptoms of depression lasting more than 2 weeks and following a major event, like the death of a loved one or any kind of abuse or even a car accident even if no one was hurt. If you've had a minor depressive episode in the past, then there is a chane you may have a reoccurrence of depression later on. (I learned that one the hard way.)

Depression can be caused by some major event happening, like the ones I listed above. You said in another post that your father is an alcoholic and that you had a recent falling-out with some friends. That could very well cause feelings of depression. As far as I've read, they (scientists/psychologists) aren't sure of a definitive cause of clinical depression, but it is most likely caused by a lack of norepinephrine and saratonin in the brain.

As for a test, therapists and psychologists give you this REALLY long one the first time you come in, and if you are diagnosed then every two weeks after that you have to fill out a one-page checklist of how you are feeling. I had to do all of that and it got really annoying really fast. I don't really like the long evaluation test they give you, and there actually has been some discussion among psychologists if it should even be used to evaluate mood disorders anymore anyways. That was my therapist anyways, so if you see one, she/he might use a different method to evaluate how you are feeling.

Is there anyone at school that you can talk to about how you are feeling? School counselors can be really good to talk to, and they usually do care. I used to talk to mine before I started seeing my therapist, and she really helped me a lot.

[Eek!] I just read over all of that and am editing to say that I'm NOT a doctor so I can't diagnose anyone. I've read a lot about depression after having been diagnosed with it myself and having a lot of family members diagnosed with it so I do know a good bit about it, but I don't have any degrees in psychology. Sorry, I just want to make sure I don't lead anyone on. [Smile]

[ 05-21-2007, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: orca ]

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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.--Monty Python and the Holy Grail

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Nailo
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Thanks for the site, Orca, it was useful. I went to my school councilor today to talk to her about it, and she ran through the symptoms of depression with me and I ticked almost all of them. She also said it seems to her that I have dysthymia, which I looked up on the website you sent me, and it sounds just like me. I can't really remember any moment in my life where I could honestly say I was happy, truly happy. Even in good moments, I always think something has to go wrong. So when even little things happen, I feel worthless. The councilor said she's look for some more tests and stuff to give me, but so far, it looks like I wasn't so crazy to suspect things after all.

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"Love does not make itself in the desire for copulation, but in the desire for shared sleep." - The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Milan Kundera

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orca
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I'm glad you're getting help. It takes a lot of courage to finally take that step too. My sister has dysthymia too. I hope you continue to see the counselor and start feeling better. I know how bad it is to feel that low, but you can get to feeling better. What I find helps with the feeling of worthlessness is doing volunteer work. Maybe when you are feeling better you can give that a try too if you want.

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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.--Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Posts: 2726 | From: North America | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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