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» Got Questions? Get Answers. » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » Is there a such thing as being "date-molested?"

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Author Topic: Is there a such thing as being "date-molested?"
whenfinallysetfree
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Sorry in advance for the length....I've had this in my head for a while...

Okay, this is kind of weird....I sort of don't even want to post this because I'm paranoid that the person I'm refering to will find out and think I'm an idiot...

Also, I know this is a strange thing to post, but I need somebody to answer some questions....If you answer, it's really important that you read the whole thing, even though it's long because I need to know that you answered knowing all the info and I don't know what's important...

But anyways, about 6 months ago, a guy who worked at a restaurant asked me out while I was there with a friend. She had gone to school with him a few years before, and I, having the lowest self esteem in the world was so flattered and confused by this date offer that I said yes. Well, the date night came around and he was supposed to pick me up and go to dinner and then a movie. Time went by and he was late...I didn't want to seem overly excited, so I didn't call him. Finally, about an hour later, he called me and said he'd be there soon. Well, he lived about 2 streets away and I lived within walking distance of the restaurant, so when he got there, we started walking. he was all, "I'm so sorry I was late...I was helping my aunt/friend/ailing grandmother/whatever move and when I got home, I had a few drinks with my roommate and passed out!" I was in awe that this boy was willing to be seen with me in public. It was like having a "See!!! I'm only MODERATELY lame! I am on a date with a REAL boy! Ha!" sign floating over me. So I didn't mind what his excuse was. We had dinner, he ordered an appetizer, I checked the time for the movie...

We left to walk back to his house to get his car for the movie and like randomly he spun me around and started kissing me. Being lame and new at dating, not to mention the fact that he was older and the type of person to whom I would normally be unworthy, I kissed back. And then he goes, "This was my first date test haha.." ummmkay?? odd. So we're walking and he's complaining about how gosh, he really needs a belt because he forgot one, so when we get to his house, he asks if he can step and ind grab one while I put the leftovers in the fridge. So I do and then sit on the couch to wait for him. He like comes out so I stand up to go and he just walks over and starts kissing me again...like intense kissing...since I really have not gone on an actual date before, I was like "Ah! Crap! What do I do? Is this how dates go? We kiss and then leave? Umm...man, okay...he's older...I'd look stupid if I punched him now..." so once again I kissed him back. Then he stops and is like, "So, it's late...we'll probably never make it to the movie...want to just stay here instead? Let's go to my bedroom."
Here's where I speak. "NO!"
so he just starts kissing me again and i keep pathetically trying to figure out how to kiss....he ends up backing me up to the couch and all the way onto it, first sitting, until I'm smooshed into a lying down position. Basically I'm like flipping out the whole time, and by then he's has his button up shirt off and takes off his other one. So there's this half naked boy on we and he just pulls my dress up and starts trying to get at my underwear. I kept pushing his hands away but he kept trying, and I guess he got annoyed finally and stopped, but my dress was still hiked up and he had his hands and mouth all over my boobs....then he like looks at me and goes, "I guess you're not such a good little church girl AFTER all." (knowing full well from the beginning that I was a youth leader at church)...I just remember having my head turned, looking at his stupid wall, feeling like a slut...he said something about me liking something but I don't know what. I only remember I said "maybe", which I guess was an encouraging word. I kissed him a little bit when he did, and his mouth and hands kept doing their thing. I basically just stayed all fogged out, trying not to think and just hoping it'd be over, occasionally pushing his hands off...after a while, he just stood up, put his shirts on and was like well, guess we're going to the movies. So we did. It was 3-D. I cried the whole time with those dumb 3-D glasses on. When he dropped me off, I stole my mom's car keys, crawled in the back seat, called my friend, and cried for 5 hours straight. Then I got in bed and didn't get out for a week. I started getting worse panic attacks than I'd ever had and had to take medical leave from work. I had nightmares about him, and that night, and him showing up at my house. I was convinced he could hear me talking from his house. I started cutting again and wouldn't leave the house.

Now, months later, this still freaks me out...I don't think I have the right for it to, though...like I know people who actually got raped or who've been molested for years, so I feel like by freaking out about this, I'm saying that the things with them that were far worse, mean nothing. Like I'm putting myself at their level...like I'm overreacting or...subconsciously trying to make it a big deal or something...I don't know what to do...
I told my mom I kissed him and she called me a whore.....because I didn't even know him....knowing the whole story myself, I can't say I feel any differently. I don't remember his last name, I never found out how old he was (I just knew he was "older")...I'm an all out slut. I seriously despise the fact that the farthest I'd been with a guy before was kissing and that some dirty guy who, thinking back on it HAD to have planned everything out so damn precisely, from being late to "forgetting" his belt to his stupid "test" kiss, got more than anyone else.

When I started dating my current boyfriend a month later, I jumped in...I resisted things at first but then just didn't care because he loved me and I loved him and that's how it's supposed to be when you start getting all touchy feely. So I let him do everything that other boy had and I replaced him in my brain as my "first" for all of them. We ended up having sex. For a while, I was okay with that, but I stopped going to church, I stopped doing everything I believe in, and part of me feels like if I had been more in my right mind, I wouldn't have done it and I could be a virgin right now and not feel like a grody Honda at the BMW dealership. >.<

Sometimes, we'll be doing something and it'll flash back to the other guy or I'll have a day where I can't do anything more than kiss because I feel so...dirty...
I keep ending up just crying to my boyfriend and him just standing there hugging me and telling me that it's different because we love each other and I know that and I'm getting over feeling like I "lost" something not being a virgin, but I still can't manage to deal with that whole stupid thing with that boy. I won't go to the restaurant he works at. I have to drive by his house every day on the way to school and I have to force myself to stare straight ahead...I saw him outside school one day and he gave me a hug. When I got in my car, I cried. I just don't see why I keep overreacting...I'm just so stupid! I gave myself MONTHS to get over this....anyone else would be...WHAT DO I DO??? What IS this even? Am I allowed to feel like this? Is it stupid? Did he even do anything wrong? I mean, it's not like I got up and left...even though I WANTED to... Is this all my fault? Like was that going to his house for his belt thing some sort of man-code I stupidly didn't pick up on? Does that make me an awful person? I feel gross now...like anywhere my boyfriend goes has already been "claimed"....ugh

One night I was flipping out and I called a hotline number and the woman didn't even hardly help....she kept asking me weird questions and not listening and I just wanted to scream at her to shut up and listen and tell me what it WAS! Like it's not date-rape obviously, but that's the only thing anyone cares about. i looked a bunch of stuff up online and they only have child molestation. I was 18. Only for a month, but the child title didn't apply. And it's not like he was the plumber or something--I willingly went to his nasty little sex lair because I was an immature moron. Half the time I WISH I'd been raped, just so I could at least have a REASON for feeling like this. Right now it's just me freaking out over nothing. No one is going to think this is anything. And you can't fix feeling bad abut NOTHING. Ughhhhhh What do I do???

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"Feel the pain teaching us how much more we can take,reminding us how far we've come...Let the pain burn away from our hearts...We have time to start all over again..." --Copeland, "When Finally Set Free"

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Jill2000Plus
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It's not nothing, he did assault you and you are not a "slut", nobody is a slut. Give yourself as long as you need to heal from this. And you aren't a piece of property, nobody can claim your body as their territory/possession. There is also no such thing as "man code", sometimes individuals will do or say things they mean to imply that they want to have sex (and what they do varies, not everyone's signals are the same and some don't have signals and are very direct and vocal or just aren't interested in partnersex now or ever), regardless, just because someone does or says something that to them means "I want to have sex" doesn't mean they can then force themselves on anybody who doesn't run/walk away or say "no I don't want to have sex with you so stop flirting with me", consent is something that should be affirmed and reaffirmed prior to, during and after sexual acts by words and behaviour, if someone is just lying there looking tense they probably aren't enjoying themselves and it's time to stop and ask "do you still want to do this or would you like to stop?" You didn't consent to any of what happened so far as I can tell, and the second you say no somebody has no excuse for not stopping what they're doing (unless you're in an BSDM situation with safe words but this was clearly nothing of the kind), you did not do anything to make him do what he did, he should have not forced himself on you.

Edit: just to make clear that even if you hadn't said no at any point that wouldn't mean you had consented.

[ 01-04-2010, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Jill2000Plus ]

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Always knock before entering my room when I am in there alone, as I may be doing all sorts of wonderfully thrilling things that I'd rather you didn't see.

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atm1
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I am so sorry that this happened to you.

I would call what happened to you sexual assault. You never indicated that you had consented to what was going on--and he clearly didn't care that you were very uncomfortable with what was happening. It's definitely not your fault--he chose his actions, and he chose to disregard your well-being.

Have you ever looked into counseling? If not, I'd encourage you to do so. A lot of what you are describing are normal reactions to sexual assault, and many time counseling can really help.

Now, I'd like to touch on a few other things. Are you still sexually active with your boyfriend? I'm just hearing that you're very uncomfortable with sex and your body in general right now, and I think it would be a good idea to back away from all sexual activity for a little while. Just because you have done something recently does not mean you have to keep on doing it.

You're not like some used car. At all. Our worth as people is not determined by how many or how few sexual partners we've had. It's not like there's some dial in us somewhere that ticks up every time we've had sex like an odometer. Why don't you take a look at this article for now? Magical Cups & Bloody Brides: Virginity in Context

Is there any reason why you stopped going to church, other than your feelings around being sexually active? I ask, because I'm getting the feeling like your church meant a lot to you.

Just because you've had sex doesn't mean you can't still be an active member of your church community. Something like 95% of Americans have sex before marriage--and so you can probably safely bet that *at least* 75% of the people in your church community either have had sex before marriage or will. Just because they don't talk about it doesn't mean they don't do it. And I'm positive some of those people are active leaders in the church community. If that is a community that you still really want to be a part of, I see no reason why you can't start going back again.

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whenfinallysetfree
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I feel like I somehow like accidently consented because of the fact that I kissed him back.....I don't even want to admit that I kissed him back...I didn't want to, I just figured that you know, how bad is it really to just kiss someone back than to awkwardly say, "I don't even KNOW you, why would I enjoy kissing you!!!" and then hope that people on the street in our tiny town wouldn't point and laugh, recognizing me on the streets as some freak of nature "anti-kisser" fruitcake date.


I did want to try counselling for this, but I did have a therapist and ran out of insurance. Not to mention that she wasn't all that helpful. The number I called suggested a place in town (The ONLY one specifically for this type of thing...free and all that jazz) but I actually went there years ago and got kicked out for cutting. So i'm not exactly all that excited to think about showing back up as their little "un-fixable" 14 year old, reincarnated into their little unfixable 18 year old. I know I'd walk in the front door and they'd be like oh great. It's HER...look who's baaaaack!" Lovely.

And with my boyfriend, things have gotten better...it's not like I feel obligated or anything, it's just that I am still working on feeling like it's okay for me to ENJOY sex and not feel guilty about it. he knows about all that and we talk about it and we're very open. We were both virgins before, I sneak around my mother and get birth control, and everything's just peachy. I do wish that I would have waited and been able to get married a virgin and know that I would be complying with all of the things I believe in, but since I already had sex and obviously can't take it back, I'm relatively okay with continuing with my boyfriend. Iffor some reason we do break up and don't end up becoming happily married and all that, I honestly don't plan on having sex with another man until I am married. I know that's weird, but I know that's what I want. I also know that I have massive trust issues and that it will be easier for me to enjoy when there is a real commitment like marriage.

as for church, I had some massive God issue after the whole thing with that boy and assumed that because it had happened, that God either didn't care about me or was punishing me for being an inadequate human being. Now that I'm getting over that, I think that the main reason that church is hard for me is that I am seeing all of the people who have the lives I wanted. A college girl who mentored me is getting married to a guy there and it's like the perfect definition of how I wanted MY marriage to be--to cute little virgins who would share their first time on their wedding night and live happily ever after... But somehow I am in love with an athiest who believes I'm being brainwashed (when I actually did want that type of relationship because it made me HAPPY)...like I could see myself marrying him because we love each other so much, but I know that my life would not be very fulfilling. He already said that he wouldn't want our kids to go to church or anything and that's just hard for me because it's been such a great and fun part of my life... I always imagined a life where my husband and I could talk about that and our ideas and what we thought and believed in and we end up avoiding it or ending up in tears. Agh. It's like every time I see them at church, I feel like I'm reminded of how things could have been for me...

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"Feel the pain teaching us how much more we can take,reminding us how far we've come...Let the pain burn away from our hearts...We have time to start all over again..." --Copeland, "When Finally Set Free"

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Heather
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I wonder if it won't help to bear in mind that any idea any of us have of someone else's "perfect life" is often flawed, especially if we're not actually close to people. For all you know, that college girl's scenario you are envisioning is false: maybe she was raped in her past, maybe one of them is not actually a virgin, maybe their married life won't be the unicorns-and-rainbows scenario you imagine it to be. Few people's lives are actually like that, after all.

But you do get choices: for instance, if you really value church and a boyfriend can't respect that or your spiritual beliefs, that's probably NOT the best relationship for you to stay in. Calling someone else's belief system "brainwashing" is really hurtful and deeply disrespectful. If you two can't talk about these things in a supportive way, same deal: that doesn't speak to a healthy relationship.

quote:
So i'm not exactly all that excited to think about showing back up as their little "un-fixable" 14 year old, reincarnated into their little unfixable 18 year old. I know I'd walk in the front door and they'd be like oh great. It's HER...look who's baaaaack!" Lovely.
Just so you're aware, I think you're projecting here. I've worked at a handful of places which provide youth services, and know many people who run/work at them, and that really does not tend to be anyone's approach. When you work in these kinds of settings, most of the time, you're simply happy someone who clearly needs help has come back for it.

Lastly, and this is a BIGGIE:

quote:
but since I already had sex and obviously can't take it back, I'm relatively okay with continuing with my boyfriend.
Sex isn't this Pandora's box that once we open it, we can't ever close again. Choosing to have sex (I'm talking about your current BF here, not your rape) doesn't mean anyone is then somehow ever-after beholden to have sex. You always have the right to take it off the table, and you always CAN take it off the table if that's what feels best to you.

I'd encourage you to consider that the best choices we can make around sex come from a place that's not just "relatively okay." They come from a place where if we choose to be sexual with others, it's only when that is what we very, very much want. If and when we find ourselves at times or in situations where we don't REALLY want to, the best answer is almost always no.

Have you seen this yet: An Immodest Proposal?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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whenfinallysetfree
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It's just hard because I never thought anyone would love me and the fact that someone does is really hard for me to understand. I know he's a good guy and treats treats me well and deals with my weird problems better than anyone else, but it does bother me a lot that he thinks I only go to church because my mother does. Frankly, that's an insult, like I don't have a mind of my own and am not capable of making my own decisions.

I'm stressing about that therapist because it seems like she seriously betrayed me by kicking me out after 3 years because I cut. I've had lots of therapist issues, including one who gave my private records to my dad's lawyer during a custody thing. It's hard to even think about being honest with one because I haven't had much luck with them. I know that for various reasons, I really do need one though...gah

I was planning on saving sex for marriage but since that's not exactly an option anymore, there's really not much holding me back from going ahead and having sex with him. Like, I knew it would be something enjoyable, so hey, might as well enjoy it now, right. because I honestly am....even though there's this nagging little guilt feeling in the back of my mind that's like hey! You aren't allowed to enjoy this! You're being a whore!....so I'm like constantly telling my brain to shut up.
For a little bit, we tried to avoid sexual things to make my guilty thoughts go away, but that only lasted like 5 minutes until we were alone in the house..haha
I know that if I decide not to have sex, he won't push me for it. Right now, at the present time, I'm okay with having sex with him. I enjoy it quiteeee a lot, so we're working on making that part of my brain stop trying to make me feel bad about it.

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"Feel the pain teaching us how much more we can take,reminding us how far we've come...Let the pain burn away from our hearts...We have time to start all over again..." --Copeland, "When Finally Set Free"

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Heather
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quote:
It's just hard because I never thought anyone would love me and the fact that someone does is really hard for me to understand. I know he's a good guy and treats treats me well and deals with my weird problems better than anyone else, but it does bother me a lot that he thinks I only go to church because my mother does. Frankly, that's an insult, like I don't have a mind of my own and am not capable of making my own decisions.
If this is someone who loves you, have you made that clear, have they recognized that, and have they stepped up to agree to work to change what they say and how they behave in regard to this?

Per the therapist (group?) with the cutting, I don't know what went on there, but it may be that that center, group or person has a policy about self-harm, which may even be potentially based on things like what kind of insurance they have and/or what the scope of their practice is.

And I hear you with the sex now: I misunderstood because it was sounding like you were saying it was only something you were doing because you "couldn't take it back."

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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whenfinallysetfree
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Yeah I need to talk to him about it more, but I tend to avoid it because I don't like conflict or that sort of thing...which I know I need to work on... =b

My therapist said it was because I wasn't being honest and I refused to show her my arm. I wish there were more therapists around here...especially ones covered by insurance hah

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"Feel the pain teaching us how much more we can take,reminding us how far we've come...Let the pain burn away from our hearts...We have time to start all over again..." --Copeland, "When Finally Set Free"

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atm1
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[edit to add, I was a bit slow on this, sorry!]

Personally, I do think that what you said here is definitely an issue in your relationship:
quote:
Frankly, that's an insult, like I don't have a mind of my own and am not capable of making my own decisions.
Have you made it clear to him that your beliefs are *yours* now that you're not five years old?

I'm about as non-Christian as they come, but I have family that is about as evangelical as they come, and a very, very close friend who is very, very Catholic. I recognize that, while it's true that they perhaps would not have the exact same beliefs if they were not raised in their faith, that they have as much of a right to believe whatever they want to believe as I have. I do agree that *children* do tend to believe what their parents believe just because they are children, but you're not a child. He's got no business saying hurtful things about your faith. I strongly believe that interfaith relationships can work really well, but only when both parties respect religion as an informed, valid choice that their partner made and is making every day.

So, he's got some issues to work out around this.

Now, on to the therapist issue: I'm really sorry you've had such a miserable time in the past. Often therapist do have to report if a minor is self-injuring, so legal issues may have been involved in the therapist's choice not to see you any more. Regardless, it was clearly handled really badly, BUT you could slowly work on building up a relationship with this person again if they are your only option. It sounds like you really do want to work on getting better, and that's really great. I'm just sorry it may mean some difficult choices about therapy.

Did you read the articles linked here? What did you think about them?

[ 01-05-2010, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: atm1 ]

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whenfinallysetfree
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I did read the articles andddd I liked them haha...I guess I just automatically assume that a girl WANTING to have sex is whorish or wrong, you know?
Like if my mother knew I was having sex, I would be homeless hah...I believe the first words out of her mouth to my boyfriend were "it's very nice to meet you and if you have sex with my daughter, you will no longer have a penis. Got it?"
We've been banned from "making out" in the house--"If you're going to do that, go somewhere ELSE and do it--not MY house!"
I find this kind of amusing as we're both 18 (and I'm almost 19)...The second I move out, I will probably inform her that I quite enjoy having sex with my boyfriend and that we will have a very fun time sharing an apartment together.
As it is now, if she knew, she would probably call his parents and tell them we were having sex and ban me from ever seeing him again...

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"Feel the pain teaching us how much more we can take,reminding us how far we've come...Let the pain burn away from our hearts...We have time to start all over again..." --Copeland, "When Finally Set Free"

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Heather
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quote:
I just automatically assume that a girl WANTING to have sex is whorish or wrong, you know?
Can you recognize that's not true? Or, at least, that if we don't say sex is only to serve men, and has anything to do with female pleasure (a pleasure no one can have without wanting to be doing what they are), then that's an oxymoron?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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whenfinallysetfree
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Yeah, it's just hard. I always feel guilty about anything involving sex. What if I never feel 100% okay with it? Like I don't always want to feel like I'm disappointing someone every time I even THINK about sex.

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"Feel the pain teaching us how much more we can take,reminding us how far we've come...Let the pain burn away from our hearts...We have time to start all over again..." --Copeland, "When Finally Set Free"

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Heather
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If this continues, then the right answer would be to step away from it and seek out some counseling to help you with that.

At the same time, you have made clear you are currently having sex in a context that really isn't totally okay with you; that you would really prefer only having sex inside a marriage. And if that's true for you, then it's going to be unlikely to feel good, because going outside our personal ethics doesn't tend to leave us feeling okay.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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whenfinallysetfree
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Yeah...I am hopefully changing insurance plans and I'd really like to get a good therapist and work through my crap haha

Hah it stinks that the stuff (ie. sex)that I was going to "wait for" happens to be so enjoyable. It'd be a lot less easier to put aside if I'd found it ho-hum haha....I AM finding that although I feel guilty about it, it usually feels positive in the way that I actually seem to be feeling less down about my appearance. Knowing that my boyfriend has seen my "flaws" from every angle and loves me just the same, feels rather nice. I like how the whole thing seems like I'm getting to know myself better and not feel so guilty (by my boyfriend and I talking about it), and because I tend to feel like that so easily about even things that couldn't be my fault, it's starting to make my life a little less stressful. I keep alternating between feeling guilty and feeling better about myself. I'm hoping that over time, the guilty part will go away completely.

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"Feel the pain teaching us how much more we can take,reminding us how far we've come...Let the pain burn away from our hearts...We have time to start all over again..." --Copeland, "When Finally Set Free"

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bold
Neophyte
Member # 46667

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I can't really give any advice here, but I'm in the exact same situation as you. Like, literally, I could've typed out my story and it would only be a tiny bit different. A lot of what you said sounded like something I could've said about how I felt.

So... I guess what I'm saying is you're definitely not overreacting. What he did WAS wrong, you're totally justified in feeling this way, and you're not the only one.

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whenfinallysetfree
Neophyte
Member # 45246

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Hah thanks bold...even though it's lame that you had to go through something like this too, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who's in this position...it makes me feel a lot less stupid, you know? Like that I'm making a big deal out of "nothing"...
Thanks =)

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"Feel the pain teaching us how much more we can take,reminding us how far we've come...Let the pain burn away from our hearts...We have time to start all over again..." --Copeland, "When Finally Set Free"

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Lilerse
Activist
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I've had a similar experience - and he touched me even less that what you two are describing. I still feel like barfing whenever I see him.
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bold
Neophyte
Member # 46667

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I'm glad that I'm not the only one as well. Not that it had to happen to you guys, but I mean, just glad that it's not nothing, exactly what you're saying.
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