posted
So, I've sort of been noticing this trend lately in the Media (in fact I'm sure it's been around for ages, and I just haven't noticed) of Aisian Women (specifically, Japanese women) being portrayed as silent, giggling, cheerfully obidient pseudo-servants. I think it's safe to say that the most prominent instance of this is Gwen Stefani's Harijuku Girls (my appoligies for the speeling there). If what I've read is correct, they are apparently under contract to only speak Japanese in public, and only speak if absolutely necessary. Being caucasian, I can't really say "I am offended by this as a woman of asian descent," Because, I'm, well, not of asian descent, but it still really makes me upset 1) because it's contributing to the stereotype of the helpless woman and 2)is marketing an entire culture. So I was wondering if anybody else had noticed this, and cared to comment?
P.S. sorry if it sounds like I'm blaming Asian cultures for not helping the progress of women's rights. I'm not saying that at all, but upon rereading my above statement, it kinda sounds lilke it. I'm blaming the media for portraying that particular stereotype, that's all.
posted
Well, if you go a few hundred years back, Asian women were probably some of the most oppressed as far as lacking rights, and place in society. If you look in any history textbook, you'll probably find a lot in Asian history about the role of women: brides came with a dowry, and were the property of their husbands. They didn't work outside the home, often didn't read/write, and then there is the whole bit about footbinding to make the women more docile and less likely to run off if they were in an unhappy marriage. These women were around to serve and follow orders, for the most part.
So, if you look at history, there are a whole lotta reasons why Asian women tend to have the stereotype they do.
I don't support this sort of stereotype in any way, but there is some historical context here, unfortunately.
posted
If you look in any history textbook, you'll probably find a lot in Asian history about the role of women: brides came with a dowry, and were the property of their husbands. They didn't work outside the home, often didn't read/write
The thing is, all of this was also true for most of Western history.
-------------------- "Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it." - the Talmud Posts: 6944 | From: UK | Registered: May 2002
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Okay, so we can't count Betty Friedan in our camp, but don't cry for us just yet.
Let's start with one huge point: there is no one Asian culture. You'd never mistake an Indian woman for a Korean woman.
Media aside, let's not forget that the president of the Philippines is a woman and Indira Gandhi led India for a good many years.
Dowry traditions aren't strictly Asian, for one thing. And they're not always what you think. In Thai culture, it is traditional to pay a reverse dowry -- an appropriate offer must be made to the BRIDE'S family to secure their marriage blessing. This is a contrast to the other dowry traditions that require the bride's family to pay up to marry her off, resulting in a significant financial burden (that still drives infanticide in some parts of the world) on parents of daughters.
The submissive-but-oversexed stereotype of the Asian female is a fantasy model who only exists in the minds of the most deluded of guai-lo. She exists as much as any other tall, blonde femm-bot sexpot.
As I recall, it was this topic that brought me to Scarleteen a long ago...
Anyway, I assure you, there have been a lot of windows of opportunity for women in many parts of Asia for thousands of years. I'm Thai, so I'll throw out those examples most. For what it's worth, the top student in my father's medical school class (back in the old country, circa 1960-something?) is a woman. I think she practices in New York now.
In Thailand, and many parts of mainland Southeast Asia, women reigned over all domestic affairs. Not just the home and hearth, but the MONEY. While men traditionally go out to make the money, it was women who control how it is used and spent. Women have long been allowed to own property and have historically had full inheritance rights.
Particularly in Buddhist parts of Asia, though marriage is typical, men and women are allowed to be single by choice, and those who choose not to marry are not marginalized by society.
I could go on and on -- and i have in so many papers in college ... but I should play catch up first.
Anyway, my point is, women in Asia may have had some rough times, but by and large, they enjoy plenty of rights and roles. My parents certainly never held me back from anything I wanted to pursue. Except horseback riding, but that wasn't a gender issue.
posted
Well the Harajuku girl thing started out innocently enough with Gwen Stefani taking a liking to the fashion in the Harajuku district of Japan. However there's a huge difference between saying "Wow those girls look so cool!" and saying "Wow those girls look so cool! I want one!" These women (and a lot of people seem to forget that they are indeed women) are reduced to pet status and are held as pretty much equivalent to Paris Hilton's dog Tinkerbell. They just don't happen to be able to fit in a purse. While I really don't think Ms. Stefani intended to degrade anyone with that idea, it does prove that many of us may do it without even thinking anything of it. A little awareness probably would have gone a long way.
posted
Go Gumdrop_Girl! I'm not actually asian myself, but I'm constantly disappointed by the generalizations people who would consider themselves well-meaning make about groups of people, /especially/ racial or ethnic groups. And then, the way the idea seems to persist that western culture has always been the most culturally and technologically progressive, is sort of mind-boggling to me to. I think from studying how not-simple reality is, we can def learn things.
Posts: 443 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Touché, Gumdrop and iheartdc, I guess I definatly did do the whole "aisian Stereotyping" thing myself by throwing all cultures together into one issues, and I sorta missed that whole thing when, wait, there actually *are* more than one different culture on thw whole continent. I guess that's kinda like saying all European culture is the same, when really very few people would say that the Irish, Scottish, English, French, German, etc. have all the same traditions, heritages and stereotypes. My apologies -Lisa
-------------------- *~*Sorry for the inconvenience*~* Posts: 59 | From: not in Regina, Sass-cat-chew-ahn | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
oh that's fine, listlesslise. I think you were actually talking about how the media tends to stereotype groups of people... and I think there's some absolute truth to that, unfortunately
Posts: 443 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
hey, if there weren't major misconceptions and stereotypes about asian people, i'd have only majored in one subject during college. gotta use this humanities degree at some point, right?
now if we could do more to accurately portray asian people in mainstream entertainment, that'd be nice. i mean, is it just me, or is there a serious asian shortage on all the doctor dramas on television?
posted
I don't know about doctor dramas on television, since I don't own a television and when I did I never watched, but I thought it was a stereotype about Asians (and Jews, let me tell you) that they all study to be doctors. Or something in math and technology, they're supposed to be good at that, too.
My question is this, though: How should/can the media include "minorities" and women without making it seem like they're only putting in them in as token symbols of diversity?
-------------------- "We are all born naked, and the rest is drag." --RuPaul Posts: 19 | From: New York City | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Well, i had a discussion about something similar regarding portrayals of the disabled in shows for teens... like how many teen/preteen's shows have a "token" character in a wheelchair, for example. The shows that were really successful with this were the ones that DIDN'T make "after school special" episodes based entirely on the character's disability.
I also remember watching this show called "Popular" with an overweight friend and it really p*ssed her off that the "token fat girl" character's lines ALL related to her weight and defending herself... my friend said "why can't she just be a part of the plot like all the other characters instead of constantly talking about her weight and how it doesn't make her different?"
Perhaps a similar approach to race would work for TV shows- not making a big deal about differences?
quote:Originally posted by leabug: Perhaps a similar approach to race would work for TV shows- not making a big deal about differences?
I think that could only have a real effect if it's used widely enough. If the media in general doesn't start portraying these groups has having all different sorts of people within them, then the one or two television shows that may attempt to do so might not be taken as seriously and the effort could prove to be counterproductive.
There you may have a situation where a character is seen as "not {insert group here} enough." A character may appear to be there only to say "Look at me! I don't fit a stereotype like all the other {insert group here} people do!!!" Take for example fictional women and girls who exhibit strength, power, or some sort of skill not commonly attributed to females. Somewhere within that work of fiction you're more than likely to see or hear something to the effect of "Pretty good...for a girl" almost as if to say "Hey! The point is women aren't supposed to be like this, which is why we gave this one her own show!" In effect the character would become the token non-stereotypical character and appear to be the exception that proves the rule. Not so good.
posted
yeah, now I know a big deal with a lot of African-American writers in the 20th century was simply trying to portray Afr-Am people as /unique individuals/. It's not to ignore that they're part of a minority group, or that being a member of a minority group will form part of their experiences -most likely it will. Rather, it's that different people of a group have somewhat /different experiences/ and react differently to the sorts of discrimination/stereotyping they may face from society -and then of course, characters should have depth, as no two people are the same.
So I think in order to portray a good character, it is not so much that a t.v show, for instance, should not make an issue of whatever gives that person "minority" status, but rather that they shouldn't treat it in a cliche way. And of course, I think there should be more media from the perspective of a minority person, instead of so many where they are a side-kick.
Posts: 443 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Dorkasaurus: I don't know about doctor dramas on television, since I don't own a television and when I did I never watched, but I thought it was a stereotype about Asians (and Jews, let me tell you) that they all study to be doctors. Or something in math and technology, they're supposed to be good at that, too.
Well, just because it's a stereotype doesn't mean that reality doesn't reflect it entirely. Been in a hospital lately? The American population may only be 5% Asian (12% in California), but I assure you, the percentages of medical personnel of Asian descent are greater than those numbers.
posted
Well, there is Sandra Oh on Grey's Anatomy, but um... that's about it, for the shows that I watch anyways. I totally agree with iheartdc - it's not about *having* a character of a racial/sexual/cultural/whatever minority that makes them a "token" character, but rather how you portray them on the show. And Leabug was right, it does tend to get awful if you make it an "afterschool special" sort of circumstance. That's one of the reasons I adore My So Called Life - it was so good at just portraying people, like, well, people, as opposed to stereotpyes or "anti"-stereoptypes.
-------------------- *~*Sorry for the inconvenience*~* Posts: 59 | From: not in Regina, Sass-cat-chew-ahn | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
I don't know if anyone still looks at this post, but I've been skimming through this.. Reading here and there. Ah yes, I'm Asian and well, I think in the third reply, someone mentioned how in China, they get married and with the dowry deal, etc.
Men basically viewed women as well, sort of like horses. They think that, "I took you into my home; and paid for you, to support you; and I can do whatever I want with you..." Which is why there's that abuse and whatnot...
Posts: 8 | From: California | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
blackrose, as logic_grrl pointed out, that dowry system isn't exclusive to the Chinese, and the history of the world is rife with such abuses.
the counterexamples i put up were to show that hey, Asian women haven't suffered so badly as to make their lives completely unlivable. silver lining in the clouds...
speaking of Asian, women and media, though. Last night, I saw Margaret Cho perform. Her act is titled 'The Snesuous Woman' and it tackles themes of femininity, sexual orientation, race, and shoes. it was awesome! sorry, it's an adults only gig, but i'm sure at some point she'll adapt it for HBO.
posted
A problem, I think, is that people in the media don't realize what's acceptable on a personal level and what's acceptable to broadcast to the world. My mate from college, Varun, commonly says things to me like 'I'm not letting a white guy beat me!', but we laugh it off because it's our joke. In fact, him and my other friends Bobby and Arun (all 3 are Indian by the way) call me an 'adopted Desi', because I can count to 5 in Punjabi, like raga music and agreed to go and see a Bollywood film once. Now to a lot of people, 'Desi' is a racist term, but it doesn't bother them. The point is that our conversations, if broadcast on Big Brother or something, (do you get that in the states?) would seem racist. But between friends they're ok. Maybe that's the problem.
-------------------- “In a strange room, before you are emptied for sleep, what are you. And when you are filled with sleep you never were. I don’t know what I am. I don’t know if I am or not... how often have I lain beneath rain on a strange roof, thinking of home.” Posts: 1269 | From: London, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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