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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » prostitution

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Author Topic: prostitution
tbone
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Member # 28138

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okay i am going to pay a girl 20 bucks to give me a blowjob. the girl is fine with it and so am i. is this wrong
Posts: 1 | From: new york | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dailicious
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Well, yeah, I'm going to not go out on much of a limb here in say: it is.

Prostitution IS illegal in the United States and giving or receiving money for a sexual act IS prostitution. In doing this, both you and she would be breaking the law.

Plus, she may say she's fine with it- but are you sure that's really the case? Are you sure that's really the case for YOU? Do you really want to objectify HER and the sexual act she'll be giving you?

I'm not objected to consenusal sexual acts. I'm not objected to causal, consensual sexual acts. But I WILL draw the line at buying or selling them when the situation is not only illegal to do so, but also very potentially detrimental to one or both people, no matter what you may feel about it right now. So from a personal standpoint as well- yes, it is wrong.

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.Keyser Sze
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No, it isn't wrong - why would it be?
If she was really against it, she wouldn't be going to do it, would she?

Who cares what the law says, it's a victimless crime, some laws are stupid.

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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he didn't exist.

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September
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It's still against the law, though, you know. And just because that's a stupid law doesn't mean it's okay to break it.

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Johanna
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carnage649
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Member # 28140

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i agree with keyser soze. besides, if the women want to do it, rather than need to do it, i do not consider it to be prostitution. if they like earning money in that fashion more power to them.
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Irm
Activist
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Well that's the thing with a lot of crimes, isn't it? In the majority, people "want" to commit them--that's why they happen, right? By people who WANT to rape, WANT to kill, WANT to embezzle, WANT to steal, not out of some financial need, but out of a WANT for... for what? For power? For identity? For acceptance? For a feeling of invincibility?

The law tries to recognize those acts that are commited from a damaged, unwholesome, unhealthy part of the human mind. In a prostitution case, here in the US, the GIVERS are ALSO considered criminals, ie what they're doing is unwholesome and unhealthy. What do we do with criminals? Do we kill them outright, or cut off their offending limbs? No, of course not. We lock them up in hopes that they'll get better.

But whether or not you AGREE with the perspective of the law in this case is pretty irrelevant, IMO. The fact, is the law IS there, and there is NOTHING you can do currently that will change it (unless you want to devote a significant amount of your LIFE not only to fighting the law but to altering the cultural perspectives that keep those laws in place. Who knows, maybe you'll be able to pay this girl twenty dollars for a blow job when you're 80?) SINCE there is nothing you can do to change it, you have to consider whether the consiquences are worth it... for BOTH of you. You should have enough respect to take her into account as well, no matter how much she "wants" to, and to not assist her in committing a crime if you recognize that the pay-offs aren't in her favor. (Oh if only criminals in more serious cases would actually have such mentalities...) Ask yourself, is twenty dollars worth the stain on her name, record, and life? Is it worth the serious health risks she is taking? Is it worth the psychological damage she is causing herself or that has already been caused that allows her to trivialize an intimate act of sexuality into a piece of green cotton? (I HOPE, HOPE, ***HOPE*** you see that she has to be pretty damaged emotionally in order to "want" to do something like this. I HOPE, HOPE, ***HOPE*** you are able to recognize the bitter spice of unhealthy masochism in her actions.)

And what about for you? Is a blow job worth all the legal reprecussions? Is it worth the stain on your name, record, and life? (Although, sad to say, you won't be NEARLY as socially victimized for taking prostitution as you would be for giving it.) Is it worth the negative impact it will have on your view towards women and sex? Is it worth the emotions you'll have to deal with when you finally GROW UP, and you possibly find yourself in a healthy situation with a wife and CHILDREN? What about when your own kids turn this girl's age? How will you feel looking back at what you did? If one of your own young daughters ran off and did the same thing (sold herself for twenty dollars), would you commend her for choosing that path to make herself some pocket money, or would you be UPSET?

Seriously, all these complications for a blow job? Why do you need one so bad? Do you not have the patience to wait until you are in a trusting, affectionate relationship with a girlfriend/boyfriend?

My advice to you: go buy yourself some lube and some kleenex.

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Heather
Executive Director & Founder
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Just FYI? You're going to find very few people who very much WANT to exchange sexual services for a few bucks, especially if they have done it before and are not merely thrill-seeking.

One can say, "more power to you," all you want, but until you've done any sex work, or at least spent any real time with people who do -- especially if you're talking from the vantage point of a client -- you're kinda going to sound like a dope to anyone but a john or someone just so far outside that arena as to be pretty naive.

Prostitution is, by definition, sex in exchange for money: that's not a matter of opinion, nor is it defined by want or need: it is what it is. I can assure you -- and pardon my bluntness -- that when one is handed a wadded up twenty dollar bill, which won't even get you a decent meal in many cities, after having a penis shoved in their throat for this payment, while YOU may not know it's prostitution, they most certainly DO. Whether that woman or girl may or may not be okay with the idea -- or, though rarer, the whole thing after it's done and more real -- she's very, very unlikely not to feel she has engaged in prostitution.

Again, this issue is so, so far from black or white, or from a pat, broad opinion. It is a HUGE issue, one that varies widely and one that has many, many facets. If a person HAS a pat opinion on it, it's pretty safe to say they're likely really uninformed about all of these aspects, about the large variances of sex work, of global laws and policies, of the residual issues, of how johns, pimps and others who profit from -- either financially or via the sexual service -- sex workers, who take all the real risks (especially in the U.S.).

In fact, it says a lot just to say "the women who want to do it." Just that, right there, speaks VOLUMES, and if how isn't really obvious -- and almost eerie in its irony, especially given the real state of the vast, vast majority of women who are prostituted/do engage in prostitution -- then it's perhaps a sage idea to do a bit more homework before getting settled in an opinion on the matter.

[ 03-30-2006, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Miz Scarlet ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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carnage649
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but can you really speak on their behalf for u they r doing this? people dont think alike, and u dont know y or how they view their decisions. how u may define a healthy mind they may see in quite an opposite light.
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Beppie
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Carnage, I think Heather's point is just that you can't reduce all protitutes to "they"-- there are many different reasons that women become prostitutes, and the fact is that HEAPS of those reasons are blatantly unfair and unhealthy. Given that, we cannot assume that the girl's reason for making this offer is purely an exercise of free will. We can't speak on her behalf, no-- but, we can say that given the overall situation, we believe that the situation outlined by tbone in his original post is unethical, thus answering the question "is this wrong?"

People who have responded to this thread have already given reasons as to why the situation in this thread falls into that category. Do you need a recap of a few of them?:

+Given that this site is aimed at teens, there is a good chance that the girl involved (not to mention tbone himself) is under the age of consent.

+Given that prostitution is illegal in New York, the girl faces the risk of being branded a sex offender for life, having to register herself and often having her details posted on the internet in many places.

+In doing this, she is putting herself at risk of STIs-- the medical expenses associated with this testing, particularly if she catches something (remembering that even condom use does not protect against all STIs-- herpes is a good example)-- are likely to exceed $20.

+Even if there are no legal ramifications, the social ramifications of prostitution are far nastier for women than for men-- a man who uses the services of a prositute is not considered anything out of the ordinary, while the term "whore" is almost always used in a derogatory fashion.

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Heather
Executive Director & Founder
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I'm not speaking on anyone's behalf: I'm suggesting that before spitting out such a pat answer about such a huge issue, and something which has NEVER been victimless, not by any stretch of the imagination, you consider becoming a bit more informed first. I'm not even stating what anyone's opinion should be, save that if it is simplistic, it is pretty clearly not informed on this issue.

I'm also speaking from a very well-informed place, per:

- having had many friends in my life who have participated in, or still do participate in, various sorts of sex work, and having spent much, much time discussing their experiences, my own, and many related issues,
- having had numerous academic and personal discussions with many types of people involved in all sorts of sex work experiences and study: as clients, as workers, as anti-prostitution activists, as pro-prostitution activists,
- having participated in types of sex work myself,
- having studied, fairly extensively, the history of sex work, from temple prostitution thousands of years ago on up,
- having read a LOT of first-person narratives BY sex workers,
- and being pretty decently versed in data compiled about sex workers globally, from a multitude of sources.

And even having done that, to be frank, I'm very certain I have likely STILL but scratched the surface, but I do think that were I to discuss or state my opinions on sex work (which I actually have not done here), I'd be coming from a place where I could feel that they had some decent basis in the reality of sex workers as a whole. This is one of many reason why I suggested you perhaps consider acquiring more information first yourself before making such a quick leap.

And no: all sex workers do not think alike. But given the simple fact alone that very, very few women electively choose, with no monetary need whatsoever, to engage in sex work -- in fact, the majority, globally, don't even get to choose whether or not they are prostituted in the first place -- it is a very serious stretch to talk about women who enjoy earning money by giving head as if that were in any way a commonality of prostitutes and sex wokrers as a whole. Generally, that is, rather, an incredibly slim minority, and even slimmer over time.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

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(Let's please also do remember that the user guidelines here DO make clear that users are NOT to report criminal activity here they have participated in or intend to participate in.

That's for EVERYONE'S safety, as well as our own protection as an organization.)

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rumored
Neophyte
Member # 27901

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I would just like to point out that prostitution isn't illegal everywhere in the U.S. Nobody seems to have mentioned this. (all the other things I'd like to point out have already been stated.)
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Beppie
Scarleteen Volunteer
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Prostitution is illegal in every state in the USA except for certain parts of Nevada. Tbone says he is from New York.
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carnage649
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Member # 28140

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no i dont want a recap on them, u guys are way too detailed. i cant focus on ur points when there is too much writing involved. shorten it up.
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Beppie
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Carnage, are you saying that our arguments are irrelevant because you can't be bothered to read them?

This is a complex issue, with many factors involved-- details are required. Our arguments have been presented in clear English, with clear reasoning. Given that we have put in a lot of time to help you understand this issue, I find your demands rather rude.

Besides, if you actually take the effort to look at my recap, you'll notice that the points ARE short-- only one or two sentences.

If you need it to be shorter:

What tbone is suggesting is illegal.

The results of doing this is likely to hurt the girl in both the short and the long term. It is not fair to her.

If you want to know why we feel this way, then put your effort into reading our arguments, rather than posting rude responses.

[ 03-31-2006, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Beppie ]

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DarkChild717
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Carnage, I really can't sympathize.

If you don't want to read it, that's fine. But remember that for all the volunteers here, reading is an important asset. In fact, it's an important asset in everything in this life.

Demanding that a huge arguement--of which you have already been given cliff-notes--be shortened for your convenience is really rather rude. Considering that any reading done for any education will be much, much more. For example, in a theater class I am taking, there are 5 peer-reviewed journal articles at about 30 pages each. This is light reading.

Relish the short posts you have, and I assure, theses are relatively short.

And lastly, this place is meant for debate. In a debate, all facts must be presented and discussed in an orderly fashion. So, yes, it's detailed. No, it won't be shortened.

And on a lighter note, I'd recommend taking notes, or printing out the post and creating an outline. It's quite amazing what can be learned in doing so.


And with that, this conversation has ended. We can't entertain discussions of illegal activity, and all points have been discussed.

Thanks.

[ 03-31-2006, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: DarkChild717 ]

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