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Author Topic: Disturbing Erotica
oOo Lea oOo
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I must say I am completely disgusted at the momment. . .

Last night, I was unable to sleep . . . For a number of odd reasons that I will not get into.

The main reason, after tossing and turning for about 3 hours (til around 1:00 a.m.), I walked out to the family room to find my brother and his friend watching porn. At first, I thought it was a western movie, so I asked what they were doing. He told me they had borrowed a dvd off of another friend.

I am not knocking porn, but personally I have better things to do at 1 am than stay awake to watch this. However, I decided to sit down and take a little peak since it was very unlike anything I have ever seen and it had a story line, it was almost like an ordinary movie.

About 5 - 10 minutes into it, it showed a scene with a woman ( relatively young) and her 3 teen daughters standing outside. Her daughters were nude?? I had no idea at all why, but she was fully clothed. This guy in a white and black stripped suit came up to the mother and took her inside. (Later I found out that it was one of 3 convicts who recently broke out of jail) I started wondering "what the heck is going on here?"

The convict ripped the clothes off of the woman and raped her. Later, the other two met up with the guy and the woman in the back of the yard with the three teens. They forced the 4 women into the barn and made the 3 teens watch as the other two raped their mother.

Personally, being a rape survivor, I take this as very offensive.

I asked my brother what the heck he was doing watching something like this, and why anyone in the right mind would consider this entertainment. I also suggested that he find better things to do with his time. I was very angry and very disgusted.

I am not one who watches porn, but I've seen some scenes, mainly just switching through channels in the middle of the night. I generally loose interest in a few short minutes.

But this, this is unlike anything I have ever seen. I have no idea what the name of this is, or even how old it is, but I guess i am just confused in the fact that anyone would (or even could, for that matter) "Get off" to something like this.

The only thing I can say is that who ever thought this plot up is sick and twisted.

And if I had to say something else, it would be "ICK!"

comments?

[ 03-27-2006, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: oOo Lea oOo ]

--------------------
And I say thank you for the scars
And the guilt and the pain
Every tear I've never cried
Has sealed your fate.
Did you take me for a fool
or were you just too blind to see
that every effort made has failed
and there is no destroying me?
Atreyu

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origami_jane
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That is just... utterly disgusting.

I consider myself a fairly open-minded person and have no problem with erotic literature, films, art, etc. But I believe there's a difference between erotica and pornography, and I happen to agree with this quote from Catherine Harper of Scottish Women Against Pornography:

"Erotica is about mutuality, respect and equality. Porn by definition is about control, abuse and power."
(From TheFWord.org.uk's article Challenging the 'Sex Sells' Cliché )

Pornography perpetuates the 'rape culture' we have in the United States and desensitizes people from the outrage they should feel when rapes are reported--even more so when they go unreported because the survivors are afraid, not taken seriously, or even laughed at by the police.

Rape pornography is not and should not be seen as erotic. It is violence.

I wonder what viewers of those "films" would think if they knew that the same actions they are enjoying are used as a war tactic in Darfur? Women and girls who go out to get food, water, or firewood are brutally raped, sometimes by several men.

Would you get off to that, O Consumers of Rape Porn?

*steams*

(I apologize if my tone is inappropriate for this board, but topics like this get me so angry. I tried to keep it tame, really. --o.j.)

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Irm
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The idea that something would be considered "erotic" because it provides pleasure for ONE of the body parts involved in the scene while the others suffer is ridiculous. Turn it around: create "porn" where the male penis is being pleasured while the rest of his body is being brutilized, spit on, harmed, et cetera. Jesus.

How does making the penis happy in the plotline cancel out the disgusting violence and transform it from horrible material to pleasurable, erotic material?! How DOES someone watch this and ENJOY it?! They must either have an extreme hatred towards women or an extreme love for violence to do so... or perhaps are just unable to consider women as people, and thus are unphazed by what the women characters are experiencing in this film, instead feeding off the males. Very self-centered sexuality that neglects the fact that sex is a form of COMMUNICATION that requires both parties' involvement.

Ugh. Gah. Grr. No graceful words for this. Just so. Disgusted.

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Ikeren
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I am not particularily impressed; that is overboard even for me. I don't necessarily think something that pleases one but not the other is immediately bad - for example, you like Opera but your partner hates it. Maybe she would join you at an Opera as a special favour.

However, when it comes to rape, that is completely over the top. I would have turned it off, handed to him, and said. "Return it."

--------------------
19, male, interested in Sadomasochism (BDSM) and some bisexual tendancies.

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logic_grrl
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I wonder what viewers of those "films" would think if they knew that the same actions they are enjoying are used as a war tactic in Darfur?

I think it's worth making a distinction here, though: people who watch a porn film like this are not enjoying an actual rape, they are watching performers pretending. In reality, everyone involved is consenting (and being paid).

Of course, you may still feel that it de-sensitizes people and/or affects their perceptions of rape.

But it isn't itself the "same" as rape - any more than BDSM between consenting adults is the "same" as torture.

I understand why this must have been incredibly upsetting for Lea (especially if her brother knows that she is a rape survivor herself). But it might become a bit more comprehensible if we bear in mind that fantasy and reality are very different things.

--------------------
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it." - the Talmud

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origami_jane
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It was the idea that I wanted to get across. I don't think that anybody should 'pretend' to rape anybody else.

I just feel like there's a difference between BDSM and 'pretend' rape. If you're in a relationship, then that activity is private. You both (should) know what you're getting yourself into and have a safeword and the proper outs. It doesn't have to affect anyone but you and your partner(s). But when pornography like that is distributed... I just don't like the consequences.


I think I'm in over my head. Maybe I should stop.

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Ikeren
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It is a fantasy where "rape" is okay, with all parties consenting in reality, but in the minds of the viewers, this may or may not be true.

I am equally ticked off at porn involving BDSM that implies a lack of consent. If you can't make an accurate portrayal of sex being hot without non-consensual behaviour, then you shouldn't be making porn.

Fantasy and reality are very different things. This makes an attempt to blur those lines in the eyes of the viewer, and that is what annoys me.

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19, male, interested in Sadomasochism (BDSM) and some bisexual tendancies.

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oOo Lea oOo
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quote:
Originally posted by logic_grrl:

I think it's worth making a distinction here, though: people who watch a porn film like this are not enjoying an actual rape, they are watching performers pretending. In reality, everyone involved is consenting (and being paid).

I don't mean to be stepping on anyone for commenting because I wanted to get other views on this.

but . . .

Obviously, in reality everyone is consenting, but that is not the point in the film. The actors are consenting, yes i agree, but the characters are definitely not. That is what upsets me.

Watching that for the very very short time that I did (before I got very very disgusted and had to stomp out of the room raging mad) It made me think, "those guys are just sick, sick, sick! That poor woman, and her poor teenage children. They (the three men) deserve to be shot!, imo"

I was definitely not (and my point to this thread is how any one in the right mind could) think, "wow this is exciting. . " because I know that in reality, the rape scene is just that. . a scene. Something planned, and each person has given consent. So that just makes it all okay.

quote:
But it isn't itself the "same" as rape - any more than BDSM between consenting adults is the "same" as torture.
I wasn't really meaning that it is the same as rape. It is just a film. It isn't real, but again, that is what upsets me. Why would anyone us this sort of situation for pleasure? Viewers usually seek pleasure/entertainment in watching porn. Am I wrong? If so, I am terribly sorry.

What I am getting at is this. In a movie, the situation of rape, especially the scene I described in my first post, would generally give people a sense of sympathy for the woman and her children. (kind of like what I said above)

In a movie, that scene may be appropriate. In a porn, imo, it is not!

Again, that is my opinion.

quote:
Originally posted by ikeren:

It is a fantasy where "rape" is okay, with all parties consenting in reality, but in the minds of the viewers, this may or may not be true.

I am equally ticked off at porn involving BDSM that implies a lack of consent. If you can't make an accurate portrayal of sex being hot without non-consensual behaviour, then you shouldn't be making porn.

Fantasy and reality are very different things. This makes an attempt to blur those lines in the eyes of the viewer, and that is what annoys me.

Agreed.

[ 03-29-2006, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: oOo Lea oOo ]

--------------------
And I say thank you for the scars
And the guilt and the pain
Every tear I've never cried
Has sealed your fate.
Did you take me for a fool
or were you just too blind to see
that every effort made has failed
and there is no destroying me?
Atreyu

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Beppie
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I think it's important to remember that with a LOT of mainstream porn, the people involved, particularly the women, there is some degree of coersion involved if not outright rape. That may or may not have been the case in this film, but one I reason that I don't like mainstream porn personally (aside from the fact that it's usually fairly scarily sexist) is that you often have no way of telling what was made consensually and what was not.

I think we need to recognise that it's possible to dislike things and discourage people from doing things that are nonetheless legal-- that something is legal should not necessarily stop debate over its appropriateness. Personally, I don't like censorship (unless a film/photo depicts and actual crime, rather than a representation of it), but I still think it's quite acceptable to say that a lot of mainstream pornography, especially that which depicts rape, is pretty foul, and reveals a deeply misogynist ideology on the part of people who make and watch it. I also certainly think that it's quite okay to say that you don't find it acceptable, and to try educating people as to why you don't find it so.

[ 03-29-2006, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Beppie ]

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-Lauren-
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Just to add another strain of thought..

Was your brother and his friend actually enjoying this? Because really, there have been a few cases where I've borrowed a DVD from a friend and really... really... not liked what I saw.If somebody walked in on me watching it, I would have probably have been sitting there gawking in shock! It may have been just a coincidence unless it's what he's normally into.

But really, if that's what they like.. while I don't agree with it, it is somebody else's sexual vice. I don't like it, but to each their own.

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zeta
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I'm not actually sure everyone watches porn in order to enjoy it. I think especially with younger males, and especially when they're in groups, there's this tendency to try and show bravado -"I can look at most horrible things and it doesn't affect me at all, I am so cool". A lot of the more male-dominated web communities seem to spend large quantities of time basically trying to make others throw up over their keyboards by coming up with as disturbing imagery as possible -and the "winner" of course is the one whose attitude remains "whatever".

There seems to be some cultural barrier stopping males, in front of other males, from saying "that's sick, I don't want to watch that" -they fear looking like a "wimp". In male culture acting as if one is sensitive to other's emotions, or even one's own, doesn't seem to be considered very cool.

I think it's idiotic; sure, watching simulated rape of someone else really takes courage. Right. Not. But still different than actually getting off on it.... At any rate, that trait seems to disappear when guys grow a little, and when they're around women.

(Not that ppl genuinely liking this stuff don't exist, but I've no clue what's going on in their heads).

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I don't get even, I get odder

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PenguinBoy
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first post (a big fat long one) [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Anyhoo. Men have an instinct towards violence, being of a hunting nature. And also the obvious sex drives. Power, violence & sex combined are what make sexist/rape-syle porn more popular for men.

I think it's probably one of the hardest parts of male sexuality to accept, the violence. In porn, most people put themselves in the positions of the actors. So a girl watching it, will more naturally put themselves in the position of the female character. That's very disturbing the helplessness and degredation.

Allot of the sexual stuff happens in the natural mind, not in the inteligent thinking brain. Most men hear for most of their lives that porn is unethical and bad, so when they get into porn characters they've already started to put aside their sense of morals.

It's really disturbing that we can get satisfaction out of the suffering of others. It scares me.

I think the fact is society has developed and learnt that nature isn't always the best path, nature is cruel. So we've created our own morals. It's my opinion that people shouldn't let their instincts get the better of them.

If you considered this video as a way of tapping off those disturbing instincts. Then perhaps it's a good thing. I'd rather he watched it than did it, anyway.

Does it encourage these instincts from prevailing? I don't know, and i hope not. Porn has never been about leading by example, it has been about satisfaction, but allot of bad people have been reported to have reflected their pervertion in their sex lives. Just because you accept a part of your sexuality doesn't mean you have to encourage it. But suppressing the violence in the male psyche could be equally damaging. I think it's the responsibility of men to engage their inteligent brains and judge the positivity of their instincts and make sure they are held back when they exceed the mark.

I personally would not enjoy such flick, as i'd be incapable of blocking out my empathy and guilt for the female, (would i want to learn to block it out?). I wouldn't get the pleasure. Though if i did, i probbly would consider watching it.

I personally think it's questionable to watch such material infront of other people, expecting them to be confortable with it, as you have to know yourself verry well to properly accept it. And it was verry irresponsable to watch it infront of someone who had felt the flip side of mal-controled instincts, it can be extreamly harmful.

The mind is full of conflict. I don't think a"good-porn/bad-porn" distinction can ever be made definately (in terms of plot*). It is easy to get pleasure without harming anyone, so to do it harmfully is illogical as well as immoral to me.

thankyou [Big Grin]

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logic_grrl
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You know, that's a big, huge stereotype right there.

There's minimal evidence that men are "naturally" violent or "naturally" aroused by rape.

(And what this has to do with hunting, I don't know, given that generally the aim of hunting in traditional cultures is to obtain food - not to rape the animals ...).

Really, I think it's pretty insulting and degrading to men to say that they're all natural rapists who constantly have to struggle to control their instincts, or that male sexuality is inherently violent.

There certainly are a whole lot of people - male and female - who have sexual fantasies which they'd never ever want to act out in real life, and sometimes those fantasies involve rape.

But many psychologists now think that those fantasies are really about loss of control or not having to be responsible - it's not about really wanting to hurt anyone or be hurt oneself. And there's no evidence that having such fantasies as fantasies makes someone a "bad person" in real life.

But that's a very, very different thing from real-life rape, which has a whole lot more to do with social attitudes than "mal-controlled instincts".

--------------------
"Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world's grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it." - the Talmud

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PenguinBoy
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yeah, i think i totally phrased the "mal-controlled instincts" part badly. I didn't mean to sugest that rape was just a momentary loss of composure.

It was maybe a generalisation, what i said is more of a theory, i'm not decided myself. Ontop of that there's loads of other stuff going on in peoples brains.

I meant that the violence, killing instince came from hunting and all, protecting terretory. Not the rape. I sugested that it was a component instinct of sex drive + violence.

Fantasies are as you said very different from real life. But surely allot of them are the kinda things that we would like to do in real life, but know we shouldn't, and so suppress them and end up fantasising about them, or having them come out in dreams.

I totally agree that having such fantasies doesn't make you a bad person.

What i sugested was based on hitler and his sex life(not his fantacies), which is reported to have been very forceful and maybe perverse. I don't think i clarified that It was an example of materialising fantasies which should probably remain fantasies. About trying to retain sexual barriers as a good practice for moral and social barriers.

i don't know.

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likewhoa19
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You know, both men and women can be fascinated by violence. Both men and women can be turned on by loss of power/gain of power over others. For someone reason it's a huge cultural thing to believe women are inherently compassionate, and then on top of this we've got scientists loosely using darwinian principles to say all these other behaviors are because of the male-hunter/woman-homemaker diachotomy. In prehistoric times men hunted and well, women had to be very tough too, honestly.

I feel the fact in our culture we consider violence abhorrent is cultural. However, it is a sort of survival mechanism, because no one benefits by unnecessary violence. Yes, equality of the sexes is an ideal. But also in a culture where men and women hold similar professions and both benefit from each other's success, misogyny doesn't make sense anymore. I think feminism can be explained as a result of economic circumstance. I also think I would have way less problem with a kinky porn industry if it wasn't for the horrible way the porn industry actually is run in the US, with drugs and coercion of women and what-not. When the industry itself can be healthy and safe for everyone involved, I'll hasard a guess the porn made will be less one-sided (ie male-geared with emphasis on misogynistic themes) as well.

[ 04-14-2006, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: likewhoa19 ]

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