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Author Topic: sex?
mags05
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Sex is becoming a "cool" thing to do in high schools. That girls and guys do it to fit in. Sex is being reduced to nothing more than a random act. Morals are becoming nonexistant.

This issue has been growing and growing for decades now. And the age which teens start having sex seems to be getting younger every year.

What do you think?


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Gumdrop Girl
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i think this is NOT a new issue. kids in the 21st century did not discover this. it has been going on for a very long time.

if you think this is a sign that society i beginning its moral decline, then the beginning has been in progress for quite a while.

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Heather
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Actually, the age isn't geting younger every year.

In fact, if by sex you mean intercourse, in the 20th century, it's been getting later. For young men, very little has changed at all in that regard.

As well, historically, you've always had young men having sex in adolescence. Women simply were not allowed to do so because the constraints put on them weren't about morals, they were about women -- and only women -- as property to be exchanged for a monetary value. Even adolescent women who were raped back when were often punished or suffered greatly, as if it were their fault, for having the audacity to be raped and malign their value.

(And if that's "moral," by your argument, than logically, prostitution would have to be so as well.)

What is and is not and what is now PUBLIC and seen/adressed and is not aren't one and the same. To assume they are is incredibly shortsighted.

What are your ideas of how young adult sexuality has been in history per mores, exactly? And what are they based on? Because I'm willing to bet they don't line up very well with what the realities of the situations were, especially for women, as very few people actually do the immense digging and research that is required to get a real understanding of history per sexuality and first age of sexual activity.

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[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 07-14-2005).]


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KittenGoddess
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Also a note: self report bias & social desirability bias.

Much of the research in this area has come from self report data. And people lie sometimes. It's as simple as that. Further, social desirability bias can add even more layers of murkiness. That bias occurs when individuals report what they think that the researcher wants to hear or what society expects to hear. And there have been indications that both biases have probably had an effect on much of our research into sexual behavior.

I'm not saying that all the data we have is bogus. But it does need to be taken with the understanding that it can and is affected by these types of biases.

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mags05
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This is a old, reoccuring issue, I know that.

The point I am trying to make with this post is that sex amoung young teens (boys and girls) is becoming just something to make them fit in. I wasn't targeting history of sexual behaviour or society itself, just the way high schools are now.

In my school, there are no sex ed classes. It seems that sex is just another thing to do. What I have learned about sex (and all its branches) has been from sites like this, television (which is not a reliable source anyway) and from friends and family.

By my saying morals are becoming nonexistant, I beleive I used the wrong term to express my point.

As another note: I have not reseached sexual history in depth, but I am not completely blind about how women were treated in history. But again, I was not targeting this subject. I apoligize for not making myself clear.


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Heather
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"The point I am trying to make with this post is that sex amoung young teens (boys and girls) is becoming just something to make them fit in."

But yet, even that is a really, really off statement.

Why?

Well, because especially with girls, it tends to do quite the opposite, especially in the younger tier of ages. And bear this in mind when I say that:

The most current reports from younger teen girls about sex -- just saw a really good one come in from the APA a couple weeks ago with multiple sources of reliable data behind it, and anyone who has lived life as a sexualy active young teen girl can easily concur, at near any time -- show that almost 3/4s of sexually active girls under 14 are reporting being coerced into sexual activity, and about 65% of those under 15 are.

Knowing THAT, now add the context that sexually active young women are often ostracized/isolated quite extensively by those they are NOT letting into their pants: by peers, by adults, by some healthcare providers, by schools, by general community. The way you're responding, the presumptions you're making, are actually pretty typical in terms of how much "fitting in" it gives young people, especially young women.

When it comes to young women, sex and history, ultimately, very, very little has changed. When it comes to women, sex has often been "a random act," and even historically and currently in marriages, it STILL is, you STILL have women agreeing to sex all the time when they either are getting little from it (sexually, emotionally), or to avoid conflict, et cetera. That's the case for plenty of women in their thirties just as it is for younger women.

Things are a bit different with boys, but then they always have been. And again, some pretty reliable data is and has been showing for a long time that ages of first sexual experiences and first sexual intercourse are really not shifting to younger ages. If you factor in puberty happening younger and younger, what you actually see a lot are LONGER stretches of time from the onset of sexual development to sexual partnership than before.

Again, what I can't figure is what alternate scenario you're envisioning in terms of the cultural politics and sociology of sex behaviour.

I also wonder how many young people -- and again, this is especialy pertinent with young women -- you've had earnest, open discussions with about this? How many young women have expressed to you what you're stating their motivations are?

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 07-15-2005).]


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PunchyFDL
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i agree completely except for on thing.

the 'sex is cool' fad is pretty much over. i mean it really flared up in the 90's, but now its actually cool and respectable to be a virgin.

of course i caught the end tail of the sex is cool fad, and that is when i realized just how precious virginity is and a lot of high school students have grown to understand this.

today, and pardon the stereotype, the ones most into sex are those who are into drugs and alcohol and those who really just dont care at all. you have your druggies, machineheads, wiggers, and goths/punks: the normal individuals one would expect to be sexually active. that's because most of those who are sexually active, fall into those categories

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The preceeding has been a message from the desk of Punchy, otherwise known as the Punchmaster Jay, Kain, Prince of Wrath, Angel of Fury, and Loyal Guardian of His Omnipotence.

He is Risen. Lord Christ is Risen indeed!


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dailicious
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PunchyFDL, I have to hit you back at that one and say that IS completely overly stereotypical. While it IS true drugs and alcohol can lower a person's ability to think through a situation properly and make proper decision when it comes to having sex or having safer sex, I think it is completely unfair and unreasonable to say those who are sexually active fit into any specific category.

I'm an intelligent, fairly smart in school, wannabe-writer, theater-geek and I WAS sexually active in High School (and still am now that I've graduated). I certainly don't fit any of those stereotypes, in fact very few people I actually know to be sexually active fit any of them at all.

Social lables are a dangerous thing to be playing with anyhow, BEFORE throwing in that they are also more likely to be sexually active because they are of that stereotype or "just don't care."


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PunchyFDL
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quote:
Originally posted by mags05:

In my school, there are no sex ed classes. It seems that sex is just another thing to do. What I have learned about sex (and all its branches) has been from sites like this, television (which is not a reliable source anyway) and from friends and family.

By my saying morals are becoming nonexistant, I beleive I used the wrong term to express my point.

As another note: I have not reseached sexual history in depth, but I am not completely blind about how women were treated in history. But again, I was not targeting this subject. I apoligize for not making myself clear.


1. no sex ed classes is a bad thing! it IS the respeonsibility of the parents to teach that, but like parents in my hometown, not all of them care. that is ultimately probably one of the biggest causes for sexuial immorality. but its one thing to state the problem, its a whole different thing to try fixing it (hint hint)

2. speaking of morals, you were right the first time. idk about canada or the rest of the world, but her in the good old u.s. of a, overall morality has hit an all time low, especially in big cities and in the media. watching a rerun of a newlywed game from the 70's, i noticed a guy was nervous about saying "butt" on the show. butt! now you can actually see one on tv and in movies! there was a time when nudity in art was controversial, but now its everywhere. we even have a whole global industry who makes money off of people going online to find "f***-buddies", "sex partners" or even "rump humpers", not to mention the porno industry... its degrading for the whole human race.so, yes, sexual immorality is on a decline in public schools, but in society in general, not so much.

3.why research it? go watch some movies. watch tv. listen to the radio. its all around us and not JUST in the media. my ex gf tells me all kinds of stories about her at our jr high with her ex, i hear ppl's stories about doing crack and then having sex. i know someone who got their best friend drunk then took advantage of her. this is all in my hometown. i live in a small city. i mean we literally just got big enough to be called a city about 4 years ago. this stuff is happening in small town usa, i fear to imagine an inner city school.

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The preceeding has been a message from the desk of Punchy, otherwise known as the Punchmaster Jay, Kain, Prince of Wrath, Angel of Fury, and Loyal Guardian of His Omnipotence.

He is Risen. Lord Christ is Risen indeed!


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PunchyFDL
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quote:
Originally posted by dailicious:
PunchyFDL, I have to hit you back at that one and say that IS completely overly stereotypical. While it IS true drugs and alcohol can lower a person's ability to think through a situation properly and make proper decision when it comes to having sex or having safer sex, I think it is completely unfair and unreasonable to say those who are sexually active fit into any specific category.

I'm an intelligent, fairly smart in school, wannabe-writer, theater-geek and I WAS sexually active in High School (and still am now that I've graduated). I certainly don't fit any of those stereotypes, in fact very few people I actually know to be sexually active fit any of them at all.

Social lables are a dangerous thing to be playing with anyhow, BEFORE throwing in that they are also more likely to be sexually active because they are of that stereotype or "just don't care."


my apologies, i didnt mean to make it sound as though everyone who is sexually active fits into those because like you said they certainly don't. but from the perspective of a current high school senior,i see this all in my own school. it is the druggies and drunks and goths and cutters, but its not only them. it just appears that way because there are the more intelligent and dignified people who keep it to themselves, instead of flaunting their sex life around like most horomone enraged teenagers without selfrespect would.

as for labeling, again youre right, it is a dangerous thing, but its there. i mean it doesnt matter who i am inside, to humanity in generaly, im just another wreckless teenager, jesus-freak (which i admit to proudly because my faith is where i derive most of my morals and ethics from), loner, and bandzie. and to some im a sex-addict, player, womanizer, and cheating manwhore, which im still trying to fiure out myself... lol my point is that the stereotype doesnt make somone who they are. the way someone presents themselves to society, is what places them into certain social categories.

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The preceeding has been a message from the desk of Punchy, otherwise known as the Punchmaster Jay, Kain, Prince of Wrath, Angel of Fury, and Loyal Guardian of His Omnipotence.

He is Risen. Lord Christ is Risen indeed!


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Heather
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Punchy, we ask here that people don't dog others in posts.

So, whatever level of privacy you like per your sex life, faboo. But it's not okay here to judge others for how public -- or how publicly you perceive them to be -- they choose to make theirs, nor for what choices they're making for themselves. It's also not okay here to discuss morality as if there were but one system of values in the world.

Additionally, as you've already been told, you're making quite a lot of presumptions.

From a personal standpoint, I remember in the early eighties when I was a teen that ALL my punk friends were always labeld sluts, were presumed to be having sex with everything that moved, and until I was in my later teens, I was actually one of the few sexually active among them at all. And yet, many of the clean-cut looking girls, cheerleaders, etc. who would often be the worst when it came to whispering about us, while knowing nothing about our habits, would be the same girls asking me for sex advice in the bathroom. And they weren't keeping their secrets about the sex they were having out of dignity, but out of fear. There's little that's great about not even feeling able to talk to your best friends about thinking or knowing you're pregnant, about jocks date-raping you, about having an STI, or about wanting to say no and not knowing how.

Point is, judging by appearances? Often foolish.

And again, please don't slag or judge others heret. Jesus would have agreed with me per that just not being okay, and he said quite a lot about it, so if indeed that's where your ethics and values come from, might wanna review.

(Oh, and lastly? Inner city schools and communities, actually, tend to often have LESS kids in crisis than rural and suburban areas do, not more.)

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hjhredrams
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i am 13 years old do you think i am to younge to kiss my boyfriend?
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hjhredrams
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i am 13 do you think i am to younge to start kissing
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DarkChild717
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At 13, I suppose kissing and that sort of t thing would be okay. But it's really up to you and your partner. Do be forwarned, the age of consent in North Carolina is 16. I don't know the age of your partner, but if they are over 16, things could get very sticky in the legality end of it if you engage in anything other than kissing.
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baachus
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If you think about it, it's really no wonder. Just look at the world and how sex is embraced by general populace. As a means of pleasure, reproduction, and social status. Having sex has evolved in to a means of describes status quo. If you have it often you might just be considered king/ or queen. It really falls on the individual to make a choice whether or not to follow the leader or their own head. This certainly caters to an assumption that if it feels right just do it (as NIKE would say). However we as human beings must accept that somethings, although they may seem perfect maybe a deception.
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OMega
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Ok... I don't want to start anything personal, but some of the things I'm reading here are driving me crazy. So I'll start here.

quote:
Originally posted by PunchyFDL:

3.why research it? go watch some movies. watch tv. listen to the radio. its all around us and not JUST in the media. my ex gf tells me all kinds of stories about her at our jr high with her ex, i hear ppl's stories about doing crack and then having sex. i know someone who got their best friend drunk then took advantage of her. this is all in my hometown. i live in a small city. i mean we literally just got big enough to be called a city about 4 years ago. this stuff is happening in small town usa, i fear to imagine an inner city school.


Movies and the media don't always portray things how they really are. In nearly every teen movie on the market today, everyone in the movie is having sex. Well it's pretty obvious that this is not the case, since there are people like you who have chosen not to have sex (I apologize if I'm wrong.) I can see where you're coming from, but I really don't think that movies are an accurate form of research.

Also, you say you've heard stories about people doing crack and then having sex. I, personally, am against drugs, but doing crack doesn't make people have sex. I understand that it influences judgement, but people have sex after movies, after dinner, after having a swim, etc.

Another thing here. I think the post that started this thread said that morals were at an all time low in high schools and teens (excuse me if I'm wrong, but I think it was mentioned somewhere.) Well it seems to me that there has been a lot more rape going on. Just this past week, I've heard of 3 rapes. The rapists were all men in their 30s. Maybe it's not teenagers you need to worry about.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone in this post, but I just wanted to put my opinion out there.

[This message has been edited by OMega (edited 08-11-2005).]


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fluffypink
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the only thing that changes it the societal norm. historically, woman got married to men when they were still kids practically, to old men to boot. but look at animals too.. cat breeders start breeding cats at the 1 year point, so whats that 7 in human years?
the human body is capable of reproducing once a woman starts her period - at that point to me it seems fair to say the body is ready for sex too.
sex should be about if 2 people love each other - albeit without rules more children may give it up to their first crush, but if parents helped their children understand everything about sex at a young age i believe, for the most part people would choose the appropriate time for them and NOT for their state.

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DarkChild717
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Fluffy- I don't think the analogy of cat breeding versus the proper age to have sex is really relevant. Cats mature in completely different ways than people do. For us humans, just because the body is ready to bear children does not mean they should be.

Though, I do agree that parents should be more open with their children. But laws are in place, and must be obeyed. The repricussions are huge, especially if one partner is convicted. They then must register as a sex-offender, and that is not a good thing.


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LilBlueSmurf
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While i do agree with what you're trying to say, i think there's more to sex ...

For one, while the body may be ready for sex at menarche, that doesn't mean the mind is. There are emotional aspects of sex too ... And responsibility. How many 12 year olds (just an example) do you know that would be ready to care for a pregnancy and newborn should they become pregnant? Or be able to provide their own healthcare and birth control in order to avoid STIs and unwanted pregnancies?

While i agree that it should be individualized, i don't think it's really that simple.


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fluffypink
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i only specified cats coz my sister has a cattery so its the only animal i know about breeding, but i meant animals in general will begin reproduction soon after their bodies are ready for it - am i saying a 12 year old mentally could handle the responsibilities of raising a child? no however - her breasts will give milk like any other newborns mother (at least to the best of my knowledge but ive never researched that)
however, thats not to say a 12 y/o could not become mentally ready if faced with that challenge. if a 12 y/o lived with 2 abusive or otherwise unfit parents and 1 baby, but was, herself able to take of herself would she not likely also take care of her younger sister?

just because of the world we live in doesnt mean a person isnt capable of something if different conditions.

which is why in my opinion sex and reproduction have nothing to do with age, but with how they were raised. (and i guess where. im not saying i promote 12 y/os having sex, by no means. but ask me again if we ever have a nuclear war.. not that i promote that either but reproduction could be good then, just a thought.


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