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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » Linkin Park to perform in Malaysia, but modestly

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Author Topic: Linkin Park to perform in Malaysia, but modestly
Dzuunmod
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Yup. Linkin Park is being allowed to play Malaysia, but only on several government-mandated conditions.

While many touring acts just choose to bypass the South Asian country altogether, LP is going to perform there with their knees covered (no shorts allowed, you see), without profanities and without "leaping around, screaming or throwing something from stage to audience" which apparently constitute "raunchy" gestures.

If I were in their shoes, I'd say forget it.

Just thought this was an interesting little example of the way some parts of the world deal with modesty issues. Anyone want to speak up in defence of the Malaysians?

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"Like a bat out of hell, time has come for you!"
-Ballad of a Comeback Kid, The New Pornographers


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Milke
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Much as Linkin Park annoys me, I think that's pretty cool. We may not agree with different countries' moral and legal codes, but unless they're actively hurting someone, why fight them? A group that's willing to obey local laws in order to be able to perform for fans seems pretty dedicated to me.

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Milke, with an L, Mrs BD to you, RATS, TMNTP, MF, CWCD, WAOTA

This is the time to unite over the Revolution of the Pants


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Gumdrop Girl
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I agree with Milke on this. If we're going to ask other cultures to tolerate certain aspects of how we live (eating beef, working on Saturdays, chewing gum and other otherwise harmless cultural and political differences), then why should it be a big deal to wear long pants for a day or put a scarf over your head? When you're in a foreign country, you do have to respect the laws. If you're from Amsterdam and you come to the States, you can't just light up a joint because that's a criminal offense here. And if you're in Singapore, you can't chew gum or you'll be fined. But those aren't exactly laws that make it onto Human Rights Watch's list of human rights abuses.

Having seen the video for Linkin Park's "Faint," I gotta wonder how they're gonna look without the jumping around, though.

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BruinDan
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Linkin Park without screaming?

I might actually like them!

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BruinDan, "Number Three," PHOM

Beware the naked man who offereth you his pants.


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RumpusParable
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this raises my respect for the members of LP. it's great that they are being respectful of the customs in a country they chose to play.
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badly_behaved_badger
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Well, I lived in Malaysia for 4 years, and I have to say, it is only fair to respect their customs and cultures. I know there are a lot of Linkin Park fans out there and it would be a hell of a shame if they missed the opportunity to see them because the band was unwilling to follow a few guidelines. I know the show will centainly be different without all the jumping, screaming and lewd gestures, but I dunno, it might even be better. We'll have to wait and see!

Oh, and on the modesty issues front, while I personally disagree with some of the religious laws of various countries(especially ones concerning women having to cover themselves) it would be arrogant to shove our western ideas in their faces so to speak. So, yeah, Linkin Park should go ahaed with their tour and comply with the rules. Well, that's my bit said. I'd be intersted to see what other people think!

*badger*


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Dzuunmod
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Well, I guess I'm alone on this one. I'm not saying that we should be dis-respectful to other cultures, I'm just saying that any government that doesn't respect artistic freedoms (a phrase that I did think twice about using, as this topic is about Linkin Park) is a government that isn't worth my time.

You know, there were days when what Linkin Park is doing might have been seen as selling out. Precisely because so many artists refuse to play Malaysia, it might mean that a bigger payoff awaits those who cave, right?

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"Like a bat out of hell, time has come for you!"
-Ballad of a Comeback Kid, The New Pornographers


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Dude_who_writes
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I'm inclined to agree with that the modesty issues do hamper artistic freedom, and that's something that I've never been cool with. And, were I put in a position where I'd have to alter myself to display my art in Malaysia, I'd more than likely just avoid that country like the plauge.

I can respect cultural differences, but there are some that I do find ridiclous, such as these. Does this mean that I'm going to go out of my way (say, by visiting Malaysia wearing a pot-leaf t-shirt, short-shorts, and shouting profanity) to show disrespect? No, of course not. And that's not to say that I don't disagree with some of my own culture. I'm not one to take the "let's leave well-enough alone," path, simply because I'm not a big fan of tradition, in any form, because tradition easly becomes a blanket to stop change and to protect ideas that may have worked well in the past. Change is a good thing, IMHO, and traditions and customs should be examined every once in a while to see if they still service the mean's end in the best ways possible.

And, this isn't to say that I'm anti-Malaysia in any form. I just don't agree with their ideas in respect to modesty. But, I truly don't think that voicing an opinion shows disrespect.

That said, I'm hardly a fan of Linkin Park (I can tolerate, for short periods of time, one or two of their songs), but I do think that it is interesting that they are willing to alter their performance in the ways that Malaysia's code has deemed necessary. To me, it [b]does[b] seem like selling out for financial gain, which, in this case, is an increased fan-base and ticket sales. And, in my book, that isn't something I can respect.

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Tim, as in "Donate"
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Does it bring out more You-ness? Maybe, but who is this Eunice, and why can't she find a body of her own?

[This message has been edited by Dude_who_writes (edited 09-25-2003).]


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Milke
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So why should anyone go into the recording industry at all if making money from it makes them someone to look down on? We don't fault lawyers or waitresses for being paid for what they do, so why hold it against any other profession?

And truly, without 'selling out', how many of the groups we love now would we have ever heard of? The Beatles had to leave their black-leather-and-gonorrhea lifestyle for matching suits and clean language, but because of that any of us can walk into a CD store and buy copies of albums that are almost 40 years old, and a great number of what were previously bootlegs are now available easily and legitimately. That seems pretty cool to me. That's as opposed to, well . . .groups I can't even name because I've yet to hear of them. Faulting a group for doing what's necessary to get heard really doesn't seem fair.

I also wonder how much a group who feel hindered by being asked to perform modestly are really capable of. If you're skilled in your chosen form of expression, you should be adaptable. It's the painter who can make art with cheap supplies when oil paints and expensive canvases are out of his range, and the singer who can make great sounds with just her voice on a street corner who are the real artists, not the people who can't create if their supplies and venue aren't just-so.

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Milke, with an L, Mrs BD to you, RATS, TMNTP, MF, CWCD, WAOTA

This is the time to unite over the Revolution of the Pants


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Dzuunmod
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It's an interesting argument you make there, Milke. I disagree with, but respect much of it. However, in the context of this thread, I was laughing inside when I got to this part:

quote:
Originally posted by Milke:
I also wonder how much a group who feel hindered by being asked to perform modestly are really capable of. If you're skilled in your chosen form of expression, you should be adaptable. It's the painter who can make art with cheap supplies when oil paints and expensive canvases are out of his range, and the singer who can make great sounds with just her voice on a street corner who are the real artists, not the people who can't create if their supplies and venue aren't just-so.

Don't try and convince me that by doing this, Linkin Park is out to prove their artistic worth. That's an argument you're not going to win.

Edited to add: I think we do take note and hold people from other jobs accountable for what they make. Like lawyers, for instance. I hold corporate lawyers in some contempt. I hold some criminal defence lawyers in contempt. I'm grateful, on the other hand, for human rights lawyers. If I see lawyers working pro bono for noble causes, they're to be applauded. If someone takes their medical degree and uses it to perform plastic surgery on Joan Rivers, I'll hold them in some contempt. They can redeem themselves in my eyes, though, by putting in some time with Doctors Without Borders. Similarly, when Linkin Park plays for free to raise money for anti-censorship groups, I'll applaud them, too.

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"Like a bat out of hell, time has come for you!"
-Ballad of a Comeback Kid, The New Pornographers

[This message has been edited by Dzuunmod (edited 09-25-2003).]


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Dude_who_writes
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quote:
Originally posted by Milke:
don't fault lawyers or waitresses for being paid for what they do, so why hold it against any other profession?

No, but I can find fault in a group of artists that have already made an obscene amount of money by making music in a genre-mixing, screaming formula that plays into teen angst being willing to alter their work in a way that allows them to play in a specific area/country for reasons that I'm hard-pressed to justify with any other reason beyond finanical gain.

I don't necessarily think that money is a bad word, but I do personally have a problem with people who are willing to compromise their creative work simply to make even more money than they already have. Especially while the RIAA is suing users of services that do, in fact, allow "unheard" bands more exposure without having to get signed, in an attempt to completely shut thsi avenue down. (And, I do admit that file-sharing software and copy-right infringement are illegal, but my point still stands.) Having to do things to get by is understandable, but I truly, truly believe that financial security should allow you to be a little bit stronger in supporting the means and the situation by which you create your art.

And, truthfully, I hold that over for all professions. I have a problem with some attorneys for billing in excess of $400 dollars an hour. I have a problem with medicine being a for-profit business in the U.S.

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Tim, as in "Donate"
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Does it bring out more You-ness? Maybe, but who is this Eunice, and why can't she find a body of her own?


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Beppie
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I'm not particularly familiar with Linkin Park, so I can't give my opinion on whether or not I think their art would be compromised, but I think, as Milke and Gumdrop Girl touched on before, that their willingness to perform within the guidelines that Malaysia has set down might not be just about the money, but also about the fact that they have fans there who are used to being passed over. I very much doubt that Linkin Park's lifestyle will be considerably better due to the money they receive for this tour, and while I'm not saying that they are doing it purely out of the goodness of their hearts, it's unlikely that they've agreed to these restrictions purely due to the money either.
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BruinDan
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude_who_writes:
I truly, truly believe that financial security should allow you to be a little bit stronger in supporting the means and the situation by which you create your art.

That's cool, dude...but who's paying your bills?

Honestly, I have a hard time thinking of Linkin Park as "artists" too. But then again, half of the "art" I see doesn't make sense to me, so perhaps I just don't have the sort of creative mind it takes to recognize and appreciate things like that. Either way, if you're in a line of work and are making money in that line of work without hurting people, where is the problem? It's the same high-falutin' talk of "selling out" that we hear from members of the holier-than-thou crowd, and I don't hold that view in high esteem.

Beppie's point that there are undoubtedly fans in Malaysia who have heretofore been passed over rings true. There are several places in this country whose cultural values have led to certain musical groups being banned from performing there, and it can be a big blow to the fans who had hoped to see them. I'm no fan of artists of that sort (Insane Clown Posse? What on earth is wrong with them?!), but if I were one of their fans I know I'd be willing to see a stripped-down version of their show over not seeing their show at all.

As it is now, artists often have to tone down certain aspects of their show to meet local requirements. For example, some venues do not allow the sort of pyrotechnic displays that have become common; others do not allow mosh pits, still others have noise-abatement policies that restrict the volume of concerts. Artists have played with those restrictions for years with an understanding that in order to reach fans in that area, that's how the game had to be played. And if they're cool with it, why shouldn't we be?

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BruinDan, "Number Three," PHOM

Beware the naked man who offereth you his pants.


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Lin
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I think this article might help clarify better what has been discussed. It's taken from a local newspaper in Singapore and honestly, the Malaysian authorities decision made a whole lot more sense after reading this. Some interesting quotes from the article, just in case the story gets archived and cannot be retreived.

quote:
According to the Mocat spokesman, the press has 'misinterpreted' certain terms, like 'jumping around'.

'It is not meant literally. Sometimes we have kings sitting in the front rows, so if the band lifts their feet up, it's not so respectful. The ministry also doesn't want any lewd actions,'...What about 'screaming'?
'It's okay - that's the way they sing. Many of our local rock bands also scream, but that doesn't mean we ban them. 'It's hard rock music, so of course it's noisy.'...The spokesman said: 'As long as they are dressed appropriately - one or two buttons undone maybe - but not bare-bodied.

'We also advise them against getting so excited that they take off their shirts to give their fans.' Concert promoter Michael Roche, director of Lushington Entertainments said the ministry just wanted to make sure concert goers will enjoy themselves safely. He said: 'They know Linkin Park isn't coming to Malaysia to corrupt moral values, incite racial riots or blaspheme onstage, but to perform the songs that have been playing on government TV, radio and record stores!'




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