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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » sex outside of love

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Author Topic: sex outside of love
miss_hive
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Does anyone here think that sex outside of a relationship is wrong? Or outside of love? Or just because you're curious?

What about friends that care about each other and trust each other, and are doing everything to make sure that they're safe? (Getting tested, using condoms and dams, etc.)

...Hypothetically, of course.

-miss h.


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logic_grrl
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Well, personally, I tend not to think of anything as morally wrong unless it involves hurting people, deceiving them, exploiting them, or violating their rights in some way.

So I'm not going to label anything done by two (or more) fully consenting adults in a safe, caring and responsible manner as "wrong".

I know that for some people, having sex outside of a monogamous relationship or without romantic love (after all, the love and caring between friends can be "love", too) would feel wrong for them. But that's very different from saying that it's morally wrong for everyone.

However, that doesn't mean that relationships of this sort are guaranteed to be uncomplicated or free from emotional risks - no relationships are ...

If you're interested in people's non-hypothetical experiences, you might find it thought-provoking to look at some of the threads we have on "friends with benefits" and similar set-ups:

http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/Forum3/HTML/002628.html
http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/Forum3/HTML/001452.html
http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/Forum3/HTML/002156.html
http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/Forum3/HTML/002412.html


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miss_hive
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quote:
Originally posted by logic_grrl:

So I'm not going to label anything done by two (or more) fully consenting adults in a safe, caring and responsible manner as "wrong".

Ahh... but what about two consenting non-adults? I mean, legally speaking, it shouldn't happen, but are you saying that you don't think people under the age of 18 should have sex at all?

Regardless of what the law says, minors will still have sex with each other. But you knew that.


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Heather
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It's pretty safe to assume than ANY volunteer that's working here at Scarleteen doesn't believe that, miss_hive.

Otherwise, they'd have a heck of a time getting to sleep at night, eh?

------------------
Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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logic_grrl
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I intended "adult" to mean someone who's mature enough to give meaningful consent to sex, rather than specifically meaning someone who's over the legal age of consent in their region (which isn't necessarily 18, by the way - for example, in the UK it's 16, and in Italy it's 14).

Obviously, though, if you are breaking the law in your region by having sex underage, that brings up some separate ethical issues, including the risk of landing your partner with a "sex offender" label, and the question of how you feel about the morality of breaking the law, even if it's a law you disagree with (you might be interested in the discussion here: http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/000652.html ).

But that's not really relevant to the "sex outside of a relationship" topic .


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Beppie
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To me, it's more a matter of "sex outside of mutual respect"- that is, respect on the part of all involved persons for their partners and for themselves. If that respect is not there, then I would say that sex is unhealthy- but it's up to the individual and their chosen partner/s as to whether or not they feel that any particular circumstances, such as a relationship, love, or marriage are necessary for them to nurture this respectful attitude.
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bluefreak44
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I know this might result in a lecture about close-mindedness or something, but I'm gonna lay it all on the line. I believe sex outside of marriage as wrong. If you want to label me as a religious fanatic, go ahead, I've been called worse.

And, despite what I thought in junior high, there are guys who feel the same way. I know, cuz I found one.


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Milke
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Lots of people have different opinions, and that's part of what makes life interesting. You're certainly entiteld to feel as you choose, just so long as you're not forcing your opinions on others. And it is true that most of us aren't as 'weird' or isolated in our thoughts as we may feel, and that usually becomes more obvious over time.

And please do remember that not everyone can or wants to marry, so this point really doesn't apply to everyone.

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Milke, with an L, SSBD, RATS, TMNTP

Word up!

[This message has been edited by Milke (edited 03-28-2003).]


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EddiesAssassin
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I think the majority of sex that occurs between teens, and a lot of adults are not because either person truly loves the other. I'm a freshman in high school right now and I find that most of the people who are engaging in any type of sexual activity are not doing so because they love the person. High School to most kids is all about having fun and most of them here in San Francisco are in it for the pleasure.

But I still think there are a ton of people looking for love even in my community of peers. And even more so a love that they can engage in sexual activity with.

I think itís cool. I donít know what I'd do, but it has a lot to do with the situation.

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Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Ride it

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ironmaiden.com


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ragadyanne400
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I think that sex outside of love is just fine as long as your responsible and have a mutual understanding.

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I have a very 'Can-you-start-my-orange?' approach to life ~ Janeane Garofalo


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a_c_munson
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Sex with a friend is not outside of love ( I hope) I love my friends. It is just outside of romantic love.
Sex with friends can be great.
THe only person who can tell you if sex with anyone is wrong(barring legalitys) is you.

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miss_hive
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quote:
Originally posted by EddiesAssassin:
High School to most kids is all about having fun and most of them here in San Francisco are in it for the pleasure.

I don't think it's just high school here in SF, but everywhere. And I'd think that us kids in SF could find other things to do, but maybe I'm wrong about that too, since I don't go to high school and have never been. But even though I don't go to school, I still have friends who do, so I still deal with peer pressure, which maybe is why I was thinking about having sex in the first place.

-Miss h.


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'rin
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wrong in what sense?

sex outside of love would be wrong for me. i see it as a physical expression and extension of that emotion.

but that doesn't mean that it's wrong for everyone. or even that i think it's wrong for everyone.

the choices that make me happy might makes someone else unhappy, and vice versa.

the only sex i think is inherently wrong is unconcenting sex. irresponsible sex as well, maybe, but not as wrong as unconcenting sex.

------------------
who is rin?


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Tilted2805Halo
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i used to have a relationship that was just about fooling around. we didnt have sex but we did pretty much everything else. and we werent really friends. we started out hating each other actually, but he lived in my apartment building and we just kinda started seeing each other differently. not as friends, just as a way to get what we needed. we'd only see each other when we were turned on and needed to do something about it. but everything is different now because i moved and now i have a great boyfriend that i love more than anything. so if you think im a slut i dont really care. we both got what we needed and didnt have to deal with feeling of love or anything which we really didnt feel for each other. so i think its ok as long as youre not cheating on a bf or something, and as long as you both understand wehatever kind of relationship you have.
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miss_hive
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quote:
Originally posted by Tilted2805Halo:
so if you think im a slut i dont really care. we both got what we needed and didnt have to deal with feeling of love or anything which we really didnt feel for each other.

First of all, I don't think that's being a "slut," I don't really know why people use that word in the first place, it's not really a word I'm fond of. But anyway, I think that if that worked for you, then great. I'm just trying to get people's opinions, and I'm trying to find something that will work for me.

-miss h.


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-Jill
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(Threads on the word slut: http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/000073.html http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/000231.html

And now we return to the topic at hand.)


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nacarter
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Having done both 'one night stands' and relationships, I can honestly say that I prefer sex within the context of a loving relationship. One night stands after a while become soul destroying because they lack the emotional connection that makes ordinary sex absolutely amazing. Let's face it, if sex isn't amazing, then what's the point? You're probably better off smoking a joint, eating a twinky and going to sleep.

One night stands, especially for the lonely and vulnerable can be akin to a drug habit. The sex doesn't make you feel good, it merely stops you from feeling bad for a couple of minutes.

In my opinion, the decision of whether or not to have sex comes down to how willing am I to expose myself at my most intimate, most vulnerable to another person. If you aren't willing to make yourself that vulnerable, you probably shouldn't have sex with that person - the risks outweigh the rewards.

Within a relationship, there is a natural progression of sharing that allows for the mutual respect of each partner's vulnerability. Sex then becomes a physical extension of the emotional bond that's been created. The risks are minimized and each partner can focus on how to maximize the pleasure (and not just at the physical level). This being said, by relationships I am including close intimate friends (although the risk does go up - sex can make things messy later) as well as with those whom you are romantically involved.


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logic_grrl
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quote:
One night stands after a while become soul destroying

quote:
One night stands, especially for the lonely and vulnerable can be akin to a drug habit.

You've expressed very eloquently what you feel is right for you, but does this necessarily everyone in the world?

Personally, if I can help it I don't do anything with anyone I don't know and like and enjoy being with, whether it's going to the theatre or sex . But that's me.

What about people who, for example, aren't looking for any emotional resonance their sex (or aren't looking for it at that particular moment)? Are "one night stands" necessarily destructive for them? What about people who feel that they can "connect" and be mutually respectful on a temporary (or even anonymous) basis?

I think it's worth bearing in mind that often people have very different needs and are looking for very different things from sex.

And are "one night stands" and "relationships" really the only two options? What about, for example, casual sex within the context of a good friendship? That doesn't seem to fall neatly into either category.


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Heather
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I'll be dead honest as well: I have had mind-blowing amazing sex in just about every sort of scenario one can imagine, from anonymous one-night stands to deeply committed long-term relationships.

Do I have a preference? Not really, though at this point in my life and the state of the world, I'm less comfortable with one-nighters than I used to be, and flatly, just don't have the energy and time for them.

I think it's important to remember that what makes sex "amazing" for one of us may not be so for another, and that it's also possible that there are different flavors of amazing, to boot.

A word as well on vulnerability and sex: how vulnerable partners are during sex, and how emotionally open, depends a LOT of those partners, on personality, and on personal identity. I've had partners for whom part of their emotional/gender identity was not letting their guard down for an exceptionally long time, and sometimes, never really letting it down. And for them -- and me, in most of those cases -- that was simply a different dynamic than other partners, not something lesser or less intimate. In addition, when we're MOST vulnerable, our emotional risks are very much not decreased by default(and it has zippo to do with physical risks): in many instances, the closer we get with people, the higher our emotional risks. That isn't to say they aren't often worth taking for that intimacy, they are. But it strikes me as questionable to say that more vulnerability = less emmotional risk.

------------------
Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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