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Author Topic: Games now in days
~*SnUgGleBuG*~
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Why is it that now in days there is games where you can kill people sleep with people steal their money and beat them? Is there any common sense to people now in days? I just don't agree with it! Im only 17 but I think that the violence that children and young teens are suggested to is ridiclous!!!!
Grand theft auto for instance I have played it along with many other people But I just don't get why they would have a game like that on the market.....kids are going to get the worng idea isn't there anything civilized anymore? is there anything we can do to stop it??
I don't want to have kids later on down the road that are itroduced to shit like this(excuse my french) this is pathetic what is this world coming too!

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Patience is a virtue


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Beppie
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What I find interesting about this is the fact that people I know who like some of these incredibly violent games are actually some of the least violent people that I know, in reality. To be honest, I agree with you in that I find making a game of killing and stealing etc is disturbing, but I do not think that the existance of these games causes people to be more violent- rather they are a symptom of the fact that humanity, collectively, seems to crave it. I think that games like Grand Theft Auto and Carmageddon are popular, in a way, because they allow people to indulge in this craving without actually hurting anyone.

Violence is nothing new after all. I think it was John Cleese (and if not him, one of the other Monty Python crew) who pointed out that the Crusades were a terribly violent time, and they happenned before television (or video/computer games) were even invented.

I think we should all try to reduce the amount of violence in the world, but I think it's more a case of "where has the world been for the last few millennia" rather than "what is the world coming to"- and we have to look at something far deeper than young peoples' access to computer games in order to address the issue.


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Milke
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Violent and explicit computer/video games (which is what I assume you're referring to) have existed as long as the technology has. There are C64 text games that let you befriend and sexually assault young teenagers, attack people for being gay, and kill for the heck of it. Once graphics got a bit more sophisticated we got classics like Exidy's Chiller, which is older than some of the posters here. I'd say Beppie's right in stating that violence has been around as long as people have. While it's certainly easier to expose large numbers of people to individual incidences of it now than ever before, it's really nothing new.
It'll be up to you to help your children's early influences be positvie ones, and that's certainly something you can do too. Controversial things get attnetion, but just because they're well known doesn't mean they're the only way to go.

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Milke, SSBD, RATS, TMNTP

I want a boy for my birthday . . .

[This message has been edited by Milke (edited 12-31-2002).]


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KandyKorn17
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Ugh, I was watching Montel Williams and he was talking about how Grand Theft Auto will be the end of humanity as we know it and the makers of the game should be in prison and blah blah blah blah.

To be honest, as sick as that game may or may not be, I think it's a lot safer than, say, Doom, or any of those shoot-em-up games that everybody blames for Children Who Kill. Grand Theft Auto has a kind of dark humor to it, and the people who play it don't take it seriously- I've talked to em. If you wanna talk scary, talk to those D&D kids from the 70s who really thought they were 3rd level wizards or whatever

My point is, I don't really think violent video games are going to bring down society. I think they're just games. Children know right from wrong and they know what's real and what's not- as long as someone teaches them. And I don't think parents should cry for laws to protect their children if they're not even going to bother raising them.


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AlwaysWorried
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As far as I'm concerned, people use the games as an outlet for their natural aggression, hence they get used to letting it out through the game and not in real life. That's good.

Also, you'll find that most people can tell the difference between squashing a guy in GTA (results in a little circle of colour surrounded by random splatters of blood) and in real life (results in distraught families, jail sentence etc).


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Confused boy
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Be careful where you get information on how violence in games may damage society at large. Take a look at...
http://www.mavav.org/

...and then...
http://a.parsons.edu/~dyoo/2002-3/interactivity/mavav/

GTA is not a children's game. Its an adult game, equivalent to Goodfellas or Pulp Fiction in the film world. That does mean that the game should not be at all marketted at children.

As I also tend to assert whenever this or Eminem comes up in topics, I think GTA does offer commentary on Western city life. Indeed the reason why its often demonised by the more general media rather than equally violent games such as Soldier of Fortune (which has a far more patriotic message) is possibly because it subverts Hollywood and widely held stereotypes. It might just make a few people think, and we wouldn't want that now would we?

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'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


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Balboa
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I admit, I play violent games, but not any sexual ones. I am infact a very obeying guy, and don't put up with much. I avoid conflicts whenever possible. So not all gamers are maniacs.
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Heather
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Why do you think it is that when violence is discussed (in media, like games) sex always gets lumped in with it?

Just some food for thought, since it seems to me the two have nothing in common.


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Gaffer
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My bet is that people would ignore both of those (violence and sex) if they could. Our society has sever stigmas concerning them, and anything that has one pushes a button connected to the other.

It's a little like peanut butter and jelly, the two have nothing to do with each other but they're always mentioned in the same sentence. Violence and sex just make a good gossip sandwich.

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I am not who I appear to be.

Gaffer--from under the moon backstage


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nifty
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i know there are some crappy games out there, most of them are the violent or sexual ones - but i dont play them.
its not like violent games are the only ones on the market though - i mean, its like magazines - if you dont like car magazines - dont buy them - buy one about somthing you like, same with if you dont like violent games...i try not to let it bother me.
i'm living on mario sunshine and pikmin. go gamecube!

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Dzuunmod
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quote:
Originally posted by Miz Scarlet:
Why do you think it is that when violence is discussed (in media, like games) sex always gets lumped in with it?

Just some food for thought, since it seems to me the two have nothing in common.


If I had to guess, I'd just say that those are the two things that many parents (rightly or wrongly) do not want their children exposed to.

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"Just remember you'll only be the boss so long as you pay my wage!"
-Elvis Costello, Cheap Reward


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Sapp
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Why people pick on the relatively few rough video games rather than huge library of far, far worse movies, books, magazines, etc. is beyond me. Hell, in my English class I had to read Anthony Burgess' A Clockwork Orange. I'd like to see the look on your face after you flip through a few pages of that.

GTA is rated M (roughly the same as the MPAA's "R.") When there's stuff like The Gangs of New York still in theatres, quit putting GTA in limelight.


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herecomestheson
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I highly disagree with you Sapp. Books are an art because they require the reader's knowledge of words, literary devices and dialect. And yes while some books are violent, you seem to be forgetting that what we read is fabricated in our head, the events that unfold are imagined in our brains. My point is that yes, while books can be violent, many are usually for other reasons, maybe to make a political statement. Videogames however require no knowledge of vocabulary since it's essentially just button pushing and we can SEE what is happening, full-control over our environment. While there might be some exceptions (I don't play video games), most games are only to be taken at face value.

Ironically enough, the majority of kids I know who read don't play videogames and vice versa. I think that says quite a bit.

[This message has been edited by herecomestheson (edited 01-05-2003).]


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Sapp
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Eh? It seems to me like you're actually agreeing with me.

Imagine if a 12 year old read/watched A Clockwork Orange vs. playing GTA. Which do you think will affect that kid more?

GTA, as you said, is simply button mashing. It's a video game - an interactive cartoon.

On the other hand, A Clockwork Orange is a powerful novel. You wrap your brain around Alex and his droogs performing random acts of ultra-violence and giving devotchkas the old in-out in-out.


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herecomestheson
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But I'm not agreeing with you. You're trying to say that books and videogames have the same influencial effect on people. Frankly, you're missing the point, those parts in Clockwork Orange had a purpose. The whole book was a satire on how far people might go with their actions and how far society might go with dealing with it. I could go in length about the book's purpose when it came out in Britian in 1962 but I won't. When Alex committed a deed in Clockwork Orange it was more or less a symbolism in the setting of the story and British Culture(I actually dislike this book I'm just trying to use this as an example). It allowed the reader to make a connection with context versus time-period. While some parts in the book were graphic it was for a reason. Obviously the intelligent reader doesn't think that the actions Alex is committing is acceptable and will take time to examine what the book is really trying to say, because random acts of violence wasn't the book's point. With Video Games such as GTA or whatever you're not reading a book. You're watching and controlling a screen.

Books allow you to think about characters' actions and gives you time to examine their motives, etc. They are written by human beings with something to say and attempt to connect with the reader on different levels such as giving them the opportunity for insight on the human condition.

I highly doubt that when people play these video games they press pause, take a lengthy ponder as to why they just plowed over thirty-people with their car, and try to turn their computerized killing spree into a lengthy metaphorical quest.
I'm not saying that video games should be abolished, I'm just saying that books attempt to make the reader think about himself or herself and the world we live in. Video games do not. It just cheap, substanceless entertainment made in order to give people their kicks.

[This message has been edited by herecomestheson (edited 01-05-2003).]


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BruinDan
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quote:
Originally posted by herecomestheson:
It just cheap, substanceless entertainment made in order to give people their kicks.

And that right there is enough for me not to worry about violent video games. They aren't real, they aren't taken as gospel, and they aren't anything more than an amusement. I own Grand Theft Auto 3. I intend to own Grand Theft Auto: Vice City sometime in the near-future. I play video games because they are entertaining, not because I feel some sort of deep-seated connection to them. Just because I play a video game that involves driving a racecar around town at 150 miles per hour does not mean I'll hop in my car and attempt to set land speed records on Ventura Boulevard.

GTA and games like it are little more than offshoots of things that Milke cited earlier. I had fun playing Spy Hunter and Operation: Wolf in bonafide arcades (remember those?) before some of you folks were born. None of this stuff is anything new, and none of it is anything that hasn't been seen in print or television or movies before anyway. By discussing it as something big and huge and terrifying, we are only serving to pump up interest in a game that may not be so earth-shattering after all. The hype is what the promoters are seeking, and we are feeding right into it.

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BruinDan, "Number Three," PSOM

"Battery Stolen; Youth Charged"


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Confused boy
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I think what Herecomestheson's comments are pointing to is a certain dichotomy in the mainstream media's comments on games. On the one hand, they are unwilling to give any credence to the idea of games being artful or having anything intelligent to say like books or films. On the other hand, they say that games are perfectly able to distort children into being violent. You cant have it both ways! They cant be at the same time emotionless and also producing agressive emotions in the players.

I will be the first to admit that there are plenty of games that feature violence purely to sell. These are the equivalent of trashy novels or action films. Some of the more extreme ones that allow for mutilation and such border on a sort of violent equivalent of pornography. That is not to say that those games are automatically bad just as the issues surrounding pornography are equally complex.

Another mistaken comment is that the violence in GTA is for no other reason than for entertainment. While this may have some truth for games like "Carmageddon", GTA juxtaposes this violence with a constant flow of media in the form of satirical radio stations. It is through this combination that the subtle message of GTA is made. And anyone who claims there is no such complexity to GTA (the reason, I am sure, why its so popular) simply hasnt played the game properly and doesnt have enough knowledge to comment on it.

Another point is that no matter how much people try to describe video games as somehow completely different and amoral compared to other media, their comments remain analogous with many that have come before and these people have always been mistaken. Rock music was meant to destroy the fabric of society. Films, like Clockwork Orange, now considered classics, have been described immoral sensationalist filth. Jazz music, being "negroe influenced" was meant to be degenerate. Shakespeare and plays in general, now a bastion of culture, were considered inherently evil. Well I must admit there is actually quite a lot of violence in Shakespeare, and sex too. Actors/actresses, now revered, were considered to be on the same level as prostitutes.

In fact, go back around 2000 years and you will see Juvenal devoting books to how degenerate Greek culture (its drama and philosophy) is threatening Roman society. Its always the same and those rallying against the latest aspect of culture have always been misguided.

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'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


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Sapp
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herecomestheson, with all due respect, I think you're missing the point. No matter how you look at it, books are much more influential than video games.

A) Books (as you said) often contain profound meaning that you take with you whereas a video game is nothing but button mashing - an interactive cartoon you play for cheap thrills. As you said, you give books serious thought and read them carefully, whereas video games are meaningless.

B) Words can be much, much more powerful than watching your pixilated car hit a comically exaggerated pimp when you couldn't break fast enough. There are some things I read about in A Clockwork Orange that I won't be able to shake from my mind for quite a while. On the contrary, I don't even give games like GTA a second thought. It's simply not disturbing.

Claiming that a cheap game like GTA is more influential than classics like A Clockwork Orange is an insult to the authors.


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Milke
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Am I the only person who's familiar with Sci-Fi pulps and romance novels? Just because something exists in book form doesn't necessarily mean it has much worth. And there are enough computer/video games that are remarkable for graphical and technical feats, as well as general innovativeness. What Rob Hubbard and other composers did with a SID chip, and the atmosphere created by games like Myst (on 4MBs of RAM!) come to mind. These are two distinct forms of expression/entertainment/influence/whatever, but that doesn't mean one's inherently better than the other.

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Milke, SSBD, RATS, TMNTP

I want a boy for my birthday . . .


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AlwaysWorried
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Personally, I agree that games affect you less than other things. I saw Clockwork Orange on DVD and basically, it was the sort of thing that you don't want to keep watching, but you can't look away.
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Whatsthatmommy
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"We are not civilized people. I guarantee this would be the case if it were true- If Gladiator fights were made legal in america, We would love it. You would watch i would, and it would get better ratings than any sporting event, EVER. I mean we love boxing, we love watching any violence on TV. This stuff has been around for years. This is nothing New. It's human nature to love violence." quoted form my 2nd period euro culture teacher (not verbatium though)

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Confused boy
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Of course, while our desire for violence remains the same from ancient to modern societies, one might say that we have developed superior morality to keeps these excesses in check. Today, we do not think its moral to own slaves for the purposes of watching them kill each other for our amusement. Instead we think its reasonable to get our fix of violence through watching plays, reading books, going to the cinema and now playing video games. This few could deny; the only question is how much violence is enough violence and when does it become so sensationalised that people are tempted to act more aggressively.

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'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


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Gladys
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Hmm. I remember reading that Americans in particular tend to be less disturbed by violence than by sex. There was that episode of NYPD Blue with David Caruso's bare ass, and after it aired, Canadians tended to call or write saying it was too violent, and Americans to complain about seeing the ass.

And culturally, we Canadians are more like Americans than Europeans are. I mean, in Ontario it's legal for women to walk around topless. In Scandinavia, they actually do it.

Some sexual material isn't appropriate for children, and some sexual material has an undercurrent of violence or violation, and some is actually violent (rape porn and the like). Sex and violence are often depicted together. I'm not sure why.

Well, I guess because they're both very intense physical behaviour. But other than that, no, they don't have a lot in common.

[This message has been edited by Gladys (edited 03-05-2003).]


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