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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » Banned in South Carolina: Girls w/o Shirts (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Banned in South Carolina: Girls w/o Shirts
BlackRoseFaery
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I bought this new Ani Difranco movie that show parts of her 2000-01 tour. There's one part where the music duo, Bitch & Animal, were playing in South Carolina. During the performance Animal took off her shirt, leaving her breasts exposed and bouncing along with the rest of her body.

Next it shows a camera that Bitch and Animal, have set up a camcorder in their dressing room, because apparently, in SC, there's a law about women showing their breasts in public.

When the cop shows up and tells Animal that he "could just take her to jail right now" She asks him if she were a man, would she be allowed to preform without her shirt and the cop told her yes.

Now when I tried to tell my mom about this, she told me that's just the way it is and to get used to it.

But I don't plan on getting used to it, and I think that it is totally unfair for a woman to be prohibited from exposing her chest in the same manner as a man would. I mean, I realize that chests between men and women do differ a tiny bit, I don't think it's enough to matter. And the law discriminating against women by allowing that right to just men.

What do you all think about it?

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cupcake
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Well up here, it was legalized. Now women can walk around topless too.

But some disturbing statements came out afterwards....
The article I remember the most said something along teh lines of a man wearing no shirt isn't considered a sex object, so neither hsould a woman. So if they're in a elavator, topless, and a man comes in a sqeezes her breast, she shouldn't have a problem with it.

But thatw as just an editorial.


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Milke
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If I was topless in an elevator and a man walked up and squeezed my breast, that would be in appropriate. If I was fully clothed in an elevator and a woman walked up and squeezed my arm for no good reason, that would also be inappropriate. You don't intentionally touch people without their consent unless there's a very good reason for it (if she's stopped breathing, yes, by all means grab her and help her, if she's just there leave her alone), and that's just ho things are hee and now

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Celtic Daisy
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As well, if a shirtless man is in an elevator, and a women comes up and touches his chest, that isn't ok either. Like Milke said, usually you wait for some kind of consent before going up to someone and just grabbing them, male or female.

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Beppie
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I agree- this is a double standard that we could really do without. And I agree about the elevator thing- exposing skin for any gender is not about inviting someone to touch it.

Furthermore, how often do you see shirtless men in an elevator anyway? The only thing I could think of is in a hotel where he's just been in the swimming pool and is heading back to his room. Otherwise, its normally inappropriate for men to be shirtless in many situations as well. They simply have more leeway with it.

However, the standards ought to be the same for everyone.


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BruinDan
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quote:
Originally posted by Beppie:
Otherwise, its normally inappropriate for men to be shirtless in many situations as well. They simply have more leeway with it.

Very true. Being shirtless is generally frowned upon in public out here, be it by males or females. But beyond that, the distinction between male toplessness and female toplessness bothers me. I can understand decency laws as they are set up, but I do not like laws that are meted out by gender or race or class or religion. Laws regarding female toplessness fall into that category. It just seems discriminatory to prohibit one segment of the population from going shirtless while allowing the other to do so at every beach in the nation.

But there is something interesting in all of this. When Los Angeles reviewed its ban on topless bathing in 1995, the overwhelming majority of those who supported the ban were women. While I don't recall the specific figures (I was in 11th grade and clueless, forgive me ), I remember the majority of men who were polled were either apathetic or did not support the ban on toplessness. Yet women comprised the backbone of protesters who wanted to keep the ban in place.

Why on earth is that? It seems to me like an outwardly discriminatory practice, so why would so many women support it under the mantra of "protecting the children." Mind you, some of these children were probably 0breast-fed at one time...but I digress. Is it possible that some women feel threatened by this? My friends and I certainly do not mind more breasts out and about at beaches, and I'm sure there are many men who would agree with us. So why is there so much resistance from within?

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Beppie
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quote:
Originally posted by BruinDan:
Why on earth is that? It seems to me like an outwardly discriminatory practice, so why would so many women support it under the mantra of "protecting the children." Mind you, some of these children were probably 0breast-fed at one time...but I digress. Is it possible that some women feel threatened by this? My friends and I certainly do not mind more breasts out and about at beaches, and I'm sure there are many men who would agree with us. So why is there so much resistance from within?

This is a very good point, because its something that is true of much discrimination that takes place against women. When I chose not to shave my legs in high school, I got more crap from girls than I did from guys. The concept of a stick thin ideal supermodel is perpetuated by womens' magazines, and the social pressure that women place on each other. I'm not sure why- I think that in some ways, in our culture, women are taught to sabotage each other when we don't fit into social norms, because its viewed as some sort of threat.


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BlackRoseFaery
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Maybe it's because the women protesting base their protests on the fact that they themselves would not be comfortable topless in public.

And like Beppie said, they feel that they have to keep the rest of the women complying to the social norms because otherwise they feel threatened.

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Some days the line I walk, turns out to be straight.Other days the line tends to deviate. - Ani DiFranco


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melimelo
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some people seem to think that if t is allowed, then 3 seconds later every woman is gonna be going around topless everywhere all the time...
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Milke
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Well, it's been legal here for several years, and having gone topless outside (albeit mostly underwater) exactly once I've still done it more than most women. It's just about having the option of clothes, no one's asking that shirts be banned!

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Why believe in things that make it tough on you?
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bettie
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Just a reminder to those who might think Canada as a country is a place of topless women...it has been legal in the province of Ontario for women to be topless in certain public places since 1996. It appiles to municipally held grounds and not just walking down the street.

Federally it is illegal to be nude in public places or on private property exposed to the public, but in different municipalities there have been ruling that toplessness is acceptable under certain situations.

Canadian Criminal Code as it pertains to sexual offences, public morals and disorderly conduct

Here is a link on a Canadian topless equal rights association...

http://www.tera.ca/

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angelicmadrigal
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackRoseFaery:

But I don't plan on getting used to it, and I think that it is totally unfair for a woman to be prohibited from exposing her chest in the same manner as a man would. I mean, I realize that chests between men and women do differ a tiny bit, I don't think it's enough to matter. And the law discriminating against women by allowing that right to just men.

What do you all think about it?


Well at this point in time I definately see where the law comes from.

Remember many years ago In America it was considered vulgar for a woman to show her ankles, shoulders, calves, thighs, and yes even her neck; as well as her breasts and stomach. That was because these areas were socially considered to be sexual.

As long as a woman's breasts are continually sexualized these sorts of laws will continue to pop up here and there.

Is it fair? No, not really, but SO many people have subscribed to a social convention of making a woman's breasts something of a sex object, or if nothing else a body part that is sexually arousing, therefore for now many people believe they need to be covered.

Eventually people's attitudes will change, just like the attitudes about women showing their ankles and all.


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ukartgurl
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where i live in england half of the beach is a nudist beach and so everyone walks around topless most of the people that live where i live are old and they are old fashioned so they get annoyed with this because it is only holidaymakers that take it to far and walk into town topless i dont do it myself but i dont really have a problem with it and i think that if people are confident enough to do that then they should be allowed woman or man. if anyone would like to help me with some feminist research for my media assignment please would they answer my topic thankyou.
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ukartgurl
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where i live in england half of the beach is a nudist beach and so everyone walks around topless most of the people that live where i live are old and they are old fashioned so they get annoyed with this because it is only holidaymakers that take it to far and walk into town topless i dont do it myself but i dont really have a problem with it and i think that if people are confident enough to do that then they should be allowed woman or man. if anyone would like to help me with some feminist research for my media assignment please would they answer my topic thankyou.it is also in sexual politics topic

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ukartgurl
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OOOH i forgot i saw ani di franco at glastonbury and she was excellent.
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virple
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quote:
Originally posted by angelicmadrigal:
Well at this point in time I definately see where the law comes from.

Remember many years ago In America it was considered vulgar for a woman to show her ankles, shoulders, calves, thighs, and yes even her neck; as well as her breasts and stomach. That was because these areas were socially considered to be sexual.

As long as a woman's breasts are continually sexualized these sorts of laws will continue to pop up here and there.

Is it fair? No, not really, but SO many people have subscribed to a social convention of making a woman's breasts something of a sex object, or if nothing else a body part that is sexually arousing, therefore for now many people believe they need to be covered.

Eventually people's attitudes will change, just like the attitudes about women showing their ankles and all.


The world is desensitized enough to violence and other things... We don't need them desensitized to nudity as well...

I think it is totally fair for the government to require shirts on women in public. True, most children are breastfed, but do you remember when YOUR mother breastfed you? I don't think you do... You were too younge to remember...

I'm not trying to be stuck in the 40s, but a woman's uncovered body IS sexual. We don't need men distracted... nor other women...

Shirtless men are also a BIG distraction. I'm turned on when I see a man showing so much skin.

It's more professional and more suitable for shirts to be on... It's the reason why movies have ratings...

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Milke
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I remember breastfeeding, and I don't think that's so uncommon, especially with babies who were nursed as long as they wanted to be.

Semi-covered bodies seem a lot more sexual to me than completely naked bodies, but I think it's only fair that what goes for men goes for women as well. Everyone needs to be allowed to be topless, or else no one should be allowed. It's that simple. And I really don't think comparing nudity to violence makes much sense at all. Violence is potentially deadly, and at very least harmful. Nudity is just . . .people. Everyone's naked at least some of the time, and it hasn't hurt anyone yet. It may not be appropriate in all public places, but I don't think it's nearly as big a deal as it's made to seem. And when Imagine was rated R (for brief nudity, quite appropriately enough), I wouldn't puit much stock in movie ratings.

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virple
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Kids watch violence on tv and become numb to seeing it

if kids see nudity more frequently, they'll become numb to it, too...

I see a problem with this because it would kill some sort of suspense in not knowing...

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hey, sure.


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Dzuunmod
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You have to balance your right to suspense with someone's right to be naked, if they want to. Frankly, I think someone's right to be naked comes out on top every time.

You have the right to control what you do with your body, not the right to control how someone else's body is presented to you (in my utopia).

And besides, just because something is legal, that doesn't mean that everyone will start doing it. Countries that have the more liberal drug laws in the world also tend to be the ones with the lowest rates of addiction, for instance.

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[This message has been edited by Dzuunmod (edited 07-27-2002).]


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virple
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we have a right to be naked in our own homes? who needs public?

I live in a cold state...
I couldn't imagine going shirtless outside EVER...

and drugs are a bit different than nakedness... they're more of a health issue than a demoralization issue...

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hey, sure.


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BruinDan
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quote:
Originally posted by virple:
I live in a cold state...
I couldn't imagine going shirtless outside EVER...

It was 112*F and humid out here the other day. And I went shirtless. And so did my 32-year-old female neighbor. And if that's what it takes to keep us from getting heatstroke, so be it.

A body is a body, and making so much out of it when it's little more than a shell just seems counterproductive to me.

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CupcakePrincess
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I want To know Why its ok For a Overly Larg Man with flabby Pecs That Look like Breasts Can Walk Around Topless but Women Who have ever Smaller breasts cant? How Is that Fair?

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Dzuunmod
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quote:
Originally posted by virple:
I live in a cold state...
I couldn't imagine going shirtless outside EVER...

The temperature gets up to 20-30 degrees celcius in Yellowknife in the summer sometimes. (If you don't know where Yellowknife is, look it up...) I don't imagine that it's colder in your state than it is in Yellowknife.

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Shenzie2007
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Whee, lucky me. I'm pretty sure the law forbids females to go outside topless here. However I don't always agree with what the law says.

I'd be too self-conscious to leave my room without a shirt on, but then I suppose I'd get used to it... I've gotten used to a lot of stuff my family still disapproves of.

Disagree if you wish, but I think clothes used to be there to keep us warm or block the sun, but now their main purpose is to cover what we're ashamed of (our bodies.) Not to say that everyone is self-conscious nor to say that clothes aren't still used a lot to protect oneself from insects, the sun and cold.


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CutiePie4eva
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around me its illegal to be walking around and showing off ur chest... not too mention i'm way to selfconscious... and i think its quite a bit indecent... my jaw would DROP if i saw any woman going around shirtless...

i think that the law should just be EVERYONE should wear a shirt... than there is no indecent exposure at all. and that would make it equal for men and women... lol... sorrie... being sillie here...

there should not be a law about exposing ones self i suppose, but i mean... i dunno... it seems a bit indecent to me. what if smaller children saw her?... i think women should stay a bit covered up...

but i guess if people didnt want to see her they should just turn away.

isnt it quite uncomfortable to be running around without a bra tho... side thought... lol...


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Milke
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quote:
what if smaller children saw her?...

Breasts are for babies, so I don't imagine any small children would be shocked or damaged by seeing what to them is a source of comfort, not a sexual display.

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Shenzie2007
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quote:
Originally posted by CutiePie4eva:
isnt it quite uncomfortable to be running around without a bra tho... side thought... lol...

No, actually, I don't wear a bra and it doesn't hurt unless I'm doing something like jogging.

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badly_behaved_badger
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quote:
Originally posted by virple:
Kids watch violence on tv and become numb to seeing it

if kids see nudity more frequently, they'll become numb to it, too...


I don't think you can compare violence and nudity because they're two completely different things. What you're saying implies that nudity is a bad, degrading thing that kids shouldn't be exposed to. I don't think kids see nudity as something sexual.
*Badger*


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Dzuunmod
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quote:
Originally posted by badly_behaved_badger:
I don't think you can compare violence and nudity because they're two completely different things. What you're saying implies that nudity is a bad, degrading thing that kids shouldn't be exposed to. I don't think kids see nudity as something sexual.
*Badger*

I'll back this up. I mean, kids are naked all the time. Or often they're nearly naked. Is this because they're being sexual at those particular moments? No, it's because being naked - especially outside - feels good to them, and is more comfortable for them.

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duckling
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It sucks that that's how it is...I think it's just that in America it's taboo to display body parts that people percieve as sexual.
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Boi_87
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I think the reason why girls aren't allowed to go topless in most places is because they expose themselves to men. When this happens, men get arroused...:P:P:P, and it's inapropriate for that to happen in public, well, that's my opinion anyway
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Beppie
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And if a man or a woman (let us remember that not everyone is heterosexual) gets aroused at seeing a man topless, do you think that is inappropriate too? Or if someone gets aroused by the sight of someone's hands? Or their hair? What if a person was to be aroused by someone's voice?

The fact is, that covering body parts is never going to stop people from becoming aroused in public. Acting on that arousal in public may be inappropriate, but the responsibility for that lies with the person feeling the arousal, not with the person they are feeling attracted to.


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Boi_87
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Heheee, guess you're right Beppie! But not all guys can control their arousal! For women, it's not noticable, for guys it is. But yeah, if you feel that strongly about not being able to take off you're shirt when it's a bakin' outside, I totally agree with you! So next time it's hot outside, let's just take off all our clothes! Because, you know, it's our responsiblity if we get aroused! Hehee, but seriously, yeah, sucks to be unable to have privillages of the opposite sex sometimes :S (that goes for guys n girls!)

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Beppie
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I think the idea that male arousal is something shameful or inappropriate is also something we have to combat. As you say, it is often the case that a man will get an erection without intending to, and this is a perfectly natural thing. Why should something natural be a cause for stigma? I would say it would be inappropriate for him to flaunt the fact that he's aroused (unless in private with someone who doesn't mind ), but the fact of it happenning is not something that anyone needs to feel ashamed of, any more than women should feel ashamed to show their breasts in the same situation that a man would have his top off.
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sapphirecat
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Let's keep in mind here that a man having an erection doesn't always mean he's aroused, and that bare breasts aren't going to automatically arouse everyone--not even every straight man.

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Sapphire Cat
A matriarchy is as incomplete as a patriarchy.
Artist, poet, programmer, dreamer, and crossdressing bondage kitty


Posts: 235 | From: Louisville KY (St. Matthews) | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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