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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » pedophilic priest John Geoghan sent to court

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Author Topic: pedophilic priest John Geoghan sent to court
Sh!mmeR!ng*staR
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Read this and tell me what you think... personally, it made me SICK. this guy molested like 130 little kids and he only gets TEN YEARS?!? What the f*ck is wrong with that picture? And it looks to me like the church was protecting him too.. that worries me.

*shakes head, sighs* Uggh... people like that piss me off so bad. >< i wish I knew how to do something about it, fix whatever's wrong with the world... or something.. *sigh*

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Prosperity that
the golden Muses
gave me was no
delusion: dead, I
won't be forgotten
-Sappho

[This message has been edited by Sh!mmeR!ng*staR (edited 01-26-2002).]


Posts: 97 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sh!mmeR!ng*staR
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double post, sorry

[This message has been edited by Sh!mmeR!ng*staR (edited 01-26-2002).]


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Confused boy
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Well I dont think we are all that in favour of calling people sick but in this case....... perhaps "disturbed" would be the word to use. Note that this is only one of the cases so he could get put away for longer depending on how many crimes he has committed. Still he obviously needs as much help as punishment. It is important not to develop righteous anger against these people. They should be pitied and watched (for others protection) rather than hated.

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'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky

[This message has been edited by Confused boy (edited 01-26-2002).]


Posts: 711 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
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As a note, and in the interests of understanding and tolerance, let's make sure we aren't confusing "pedophile" and 'child-molerstor." They aren't one in the same. I don't see anywhere in this article or in other references to this case this man identifying as a pedophile, in other words, as someone sexually or romantically attracted to children. It's a title we can't just affix any more fairly than we can affix orientation labels to anyone. He has, however, allegedly sexually abused minors, so we can talk about sexual abuse fairly. But again, they are two very different things, not interchangeable terms.

In fact, most research done on child molestors has sown that the MAJORITY of them are NOT pedophiles. In other wrods, they are not raping children out of sexual attraction, mmuch in the same way that most men who rape adult women do not do so due to sexual motivation.

But I agree: this is a terribly sad case, especially because it's yet another signal that as a society, we still tend to look for our criminals or rapists to be everyone other than pillars of community or your average joe, and that bias and misguided want for them NOT to be people we might respect really does victims an injustice because it allows for things like this to happen not just once, but for years and years. Time to take the blinders off, say I.

As a final note: MOST rapists of any flavor get pretty small sentences. This isn't that unusual in that respect. Bank robbers or tax evaders often end up with longer sentences than many rapists.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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TenohSetsuna
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Out of curiosity(not doubt, honest!), Miz S, where'd you get those facts? They're interesting, and quite the opposite of what you get told in the general universe. I learn something new every day, it seems.

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I don't want eternity. But Arashii is mine.

"I never said I was a boy." - Tenoh Haruka, episode 92, Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon


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Confused boy
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And surely it is quite hard to ascertain precisely what someones motives are if they molest a child. They might merely claim not to be paedophiles, especially considering the stigma attached to that word. These sort of facts are very hard to prove conclusively.

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'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


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Heather
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The mostt thourough and unbiased research in this field (and thus, in my mind, the most credible) has been done by Paul Okami, PhD and published in several places, most notable The Journal of Sex Research. Also well-done and without a political cant is Pedophilia: Biosocial Dimensions by Jay R. Feierman. Honestly, one of the easiest ways with issues like this of determining who is and isn't actually informed, not just making assumptiopns, is to look at what aactual research (interviews, group observations, etc.), have been done by any given author. It's easy with something so hot-button not to jumpp on the bandwagon and make assumptions, but bear in mmind that the same sorts of things said by the general public about pedophiles today were dsaid, to the letter, about bisexuals and homosexuals twenty years ago.

In terms of looking into how these things are defined, while outdated in some respects, the stronghold, Psychopathia Sexualis is an excellent reference, as are books like Understanding the Sexually Unusual and Ellis's Encyclopedia of Sexual Behaviour. Really, just get your hands on some actual sexologists. Anything else is sort of like looking to an archtect for a medical opinion, if you know what I mean.

And Confused, it's not all that difficult. While there is a clinical group division of rapists who rape with sexual attraction factors in play, or in primary, they are the great minority, and that applies to rapists of any gender, raping any group. We find these things out by doing long-term clinical studies and observations. Most rape is not about sexual atttraction, it's about power, anger and intimidation, and most people, as a whole, do not purposefully seek to harm those to whom they are sexually or romatically attracted. People with the paraphilia pedophilia, as a group, and as part of what defines that paraphilia are attracted to children sexually and emotionally, and to those things which are childlike, thusly, most of them want very much to appreciate children, not harm them, much the same way your average foot fetishist wants to worship, kiss or stroke feet, not break them.

And I assure you that "child-molestor" is a term far fewer people would like to carry that pedophile, especially since most people don't even know what the latter term means, or simply use them interchangeably. And from the work I've done with this population, I can tell you firsthand that very, very few of them have trouble with pedophile as a term. Most, in fact, embrace it, because it literally means " (platonic, back to the Greek, "Philos") love of child" when you take it from its root.

It took a while for me to accept this stuff, I should add, being a sexual abuse victim as a child, and after spending a lot of time doing research, I was pretty amazed to slowly realize that it was not only highly unlikely that my attackers weren't pedophiles, but that a couple of the adults who passed through my life as a child, and who I LOVED to be around and felt very cared for by, may HAVE been pedophilic. Boy, was that a 360. But when looking at genuine, earnest work on the subject, with the population, the stereotypes don't last long -- to keep them, you'd really simply have to dismiss all the work done on this issue by credible researchers and instead accept hype from people who had no idea what they were talking about and who are talking out of fear, rather than from knowledge.

So, it's a pretty complicated issue, but not as much as it seems. I think it seems more complex than it is because of so much purposeful misinformation and stereotype floating around. powered even more so by our current western political agenda to extend childhood for as long as possible, and to view children as codependent and as passive property.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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Pumpkin_Pie
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Sp paedophilia and child molesting aren't one and the same? Wow, learn something new everyday. Miz Scarlet you are so cool. But anyway, you may or may not know this, but in Ireland at the moment there is alot and I mean a lot of scandals going on about priests and brothers and nuns or whatever molesting kids in their care during the sixties and seventies. And well, lets just say the Church had know about a lot of them and had dealt with it by "transferring" the culprits to places where they could continue their reign of terror.
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Heather
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No more the same than being a heterosexual man and being a rapist. While some heterosexual men can rape and do rape, because one is attracted to women does not mean one will rape them, or that one is predisposed to by virtue of finding them attractive.

Too, I haven't seen the ages of those assualted in the case above: even if pedophilia (or child molestation, which personally, I think should be tossed as a term -- rape is rape is rape, let's call it what it is across the board, not belittle it)) may be a factor, if those victims are not pre-pubescent in the great majority, pedophilia isn't even a consideration. In other words, a pedophile is not generally attracted to someone over the age of 11 or 12, when puberty tends to begin. The articles I have seen have only said "minors" which just means anyone unser 18 - 21.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 01-28-2002).]


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Confused boy
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I was not suggesting that you discount people's research just because it doesnt fit with one's personal opinion on matters. I was merely suggesting that there must be healthy skepticism of all research done, particularly in these fields which are not always an exact science.

My father works in scientific fields frequently relating to psychology of this kind and if its one thing he will never give in answer to a question I have asked him, it is a straight general rule or answer. Scientific methods are constantly being refined which means that we are in no way at a stage where we can confidently announce the truth of such complicated matters.

Obviously, it is made even more complicated by biased information but trying to put forward one fairly rigid idea, that you seem to be doing but with all good intentions and even with all that evidence to back it up, is still deliberately selecting a certain viewpoint. Such a viewpoint can be asserted as a strongly acedemically informed opinion but not as "fact."

In general, I must emphasise that I agree with your point of view.

As for the Greek derivation of "philos": from my own studies it seems that philos has a fairly large set of meanings which can have sexual connatations but also often do not. Whether "eros" is a different sort of "love" altogether or merely a subset of philos is up for debate as far as I can see, especially since "philos" is used in so many English words: all the way from Philosophy to haemophilia. Since -philia has become the normal part to attach to a paraphilia it cannot be said not to have any sexual connotations at all, merely because of the original Greek.

There is a further complication made by the American spelling of Paedia which makes the word look something more like a "love of infantry/feet/plains."

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'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


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Heather
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In terms of the Greek, you are saying what I was, Confused: why many pedophiles embrace the term is BECAUSE it does NOT include the sexual. Of the pedophiles and hebephiles I've interviewed in the last couple of years on these matters, it's been pretty clear that a great many of them are not comfortable with sexuality as most of us define it, some to the point of clearly being phobic.

In terms of what you're saying about research, good points all, and I concur.

But with this particular topic, the trouble I have is that all the hype and sterotype isn't based on interviews, accurtate statistics or samples, or any real work at ALL, but merely on hysteria and assumptions. And so I don't know that we can compare these things (if someone has good sources of solid research done at all to attempt to prove the stereotypes, please pass it my way, beacuse I don't know of any at all). I also don't know that I'm trying to "prove" anything myself in particular, save to show that to my knowledge, the statistics and a decent lot of credible information do not EXIST to show that pedophile=child molestor, any more than we ever had anything beyond hysteria and bigotry to show the solid belief in the past that homosexual=child molestor, or that person of african descent=thief, if you see what I am saying. In other words, work like what I cited above is the only work of substance available I even know of to consider, and all of it tends to have very similar findings.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 01-29-2002).]


Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TenohSetsuna
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I come back and see a thousand posts of light(I've spent too much time at www.capsteps.com). This is all very interesting, to say the least. I'm befuddled, really. Too much time in mainstream society, I suppose. Anyway, thanks, Miz Scarlet. I'll have to find time to look up that stuff.

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I don't want eternity. But Arashii is mine.

"I never said I was a boy." - Tenoh Haruka, episode 92, Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon


Posts: 102 | From: SoCal | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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