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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » Womb Rentals?

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Author Topic: Womb Rentals?
Dzuunmod
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They're basically procedures where people who don't have a womb suitable for pregnancy (gay male couples as one example) pay a fee to a woman who does have a suitable womb, to have their child.

It brings up many ethical questions - it's already illegal in some parts of the world. Recently, a Canadian government member called for such arrangements to be made legal here. He argued that the government has no place making legislation that puts rules on people's bodies. The strange part of the matter is that he is a member from the extreme-right wing Canadian Alliance Party.

As some commentators have suggested, those who support this notion (I'm one of 'em) must also support the legalization of prostitution. After all, they're both just instances where people agree to rent out body parts for set amounts of time.

What do you think?

I don't have a link for this. I've had trouble with that so if anyone knows of a good one, go ahead and post it.


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John Doe
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I fail to see why this arrangement should be illegal. its an arms length financial transaction between two willing adults who have the capacity to make contractual arrangements. people rent out their bodies all the time, ditch diggers do it, football players do it.
Perhaps there could be some problems if the surragote mother wanted to back out of the transaction at the last minute, but I'm sure there could be some regulations which covered that.

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LilBlueSmurf
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I also think this should be made legal ... I plan on being a surrogate mother later in life, if i'm able to. If i'm not using my womb at the time, i do'nt see why someone else shouldn't be able to.
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Celtic Daisy
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I think this should be legal. The government shouldn't have control over what people can do with their bodies. If people are willing to do this, to help others i think it's really good. There are lots of people out there who can't have their own children and i think that surragate mothers are a good idea.

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"where'ths my mommy?"
-Shawna

Akimsa (non-violence)

~Erin~


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TheCagedOne
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I also don't see why something like this should be illegal. In a sense, adoption is very much the same thing. Couples that can't have kids can adopt. Really the only difference I see between the two is that the surrogate mother program would be preplanned where as adoption usually is not. I like the idea of something like that being preplanned, since the parents would most likely be able to play a role in the pregnancy. The only problem I see is the surrogate mother might not want to give up the baby after carrying it. As mentioned, there could be regulations, but that wouldn't stop the woman from feeling horrible about having to give up the baby. As for the similarity to prostitution, I really don't see that. I mean, this could all be regulated, where as prostitution is definately not. Not to mention the moral implications prostitution carrie. All in all, I think this idea is worth a try.

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"A wise monkey never monkeys with another monkey's monkey"
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"Recycle, stay in school, and fight the power ~ SSX


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John Doe
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Exactly what moral impilications does Prostitution carry. It too is a contractual relationship between two consenting adult parties able to engage in such transactions. Prostitution is currently not regulated, however, that is not to say that it couldn't be regulated if it were legalized.
As for the "moral implications" I would point out that Christ's most notible female follower was a member of the world's oldest profession.

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Lee
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I'm not sure I understand how this sort of thing is even within the scope of law, or at least what law should be. As for prostitution, I don't see why that is illegal either. You can make all kinds of moral arguments about it, but the plain fact is that what two people do consensually is no one else's business, especially not the government's, and it doesn't matter whether money is being exchanged or not. I personally think prostitution is a pretty sad affair, having to pay someone just for the physical aspects of sexual intimacy. But that doesn't give me the right to tell other people they can't do it. The same holds true for gays etc. paying women to have children for them. It's no one else's business. The only time the state should be involved is in the settlement of disputes between the parties.

It would be nice if we lived in a world or a nation where freedom was held sacred. Unfortunately we don't.

Lee


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Milke
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Laws against prostitution seem rather like laws against sodomy; perhaps, at one time, they made sense to a good number of people, but now they just seem outdated and discriminatory. I'm not very fond of the idea of surrogacy, and I'm not entirely sure why. I think it's probably mostly related to being against anything which is going to add to the problems of an already overpopulated world. Sort of like how I love cats, but would never allow any of mine to have kittens. There are so many children out there already in less than ideal situations, or without proper homes, that it seems obscene to go to extreme efforts to make any more.
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TheCagedOne
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Well, let me clarify what I meant by the 'moral implications' of prosititution (sorry if i'm getting off topic Dzuunmod). What I meant was that legalizing prostitution in this country, and regulating it, would seem to be quite difficult. Simply because I don't think the majority of the people would support something like that. Didn't mean to come off as passing judgement or anything.

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"A wise monkey never monkeys with another monkey's monkey"
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"Recycle, stay in school, and fight the power ~ SSX


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Dzuunmod
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Yeah, while I think, as I said, that prostitution ought to be legalized, I don't think that most people would agree. Where would the prostitutes to work? Is there any neighbourhood in the world that would take them in? Most people don't want sex shops near where they live - nevermind the sex trade.
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Confused boy
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I did think of a slight risk here with womb rentals. Not moral, just practical. What if you have someone who is desperately short of money and sees allowing someone to use their womb to be a way of getting quite a lot of money quickly. They might decide to do this without weighing up all the implications and risks. Therefore I believe, yes, this is OK but with lots of regulation from a government body. Same for prostituition in my opinion.

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'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


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John Doe
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It sounds to me like that would be a rational reason to go into the womb rental business, because you needed a lot of money. Getting that money would be one of the consequenses that she was weighing. yes there are risks, but many ways of getting money involve risk. Investing in the stock market involves risk, working as a garbage man or a lumerjack or digging ditches invovles risk. What makes the risk of childbirth so much different?
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Confused boy
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Well most people who invest in the stockmarket are aware that share prices go down as well as up and take the risk or spread the risk. Therefore, a decision involving renting out your womb must be an informed. So you cannot have some dodgy dealer getting someone to sign off their womb for 9 months using a Dickensian style contract without providing any information as to the risks and liabilities of this undertaking.

I can see that this is a more general ideological argument so we should not get too far into the government regulation debate here.

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'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


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John Doe
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I could certianly see the case for requiring both parties to sign a basic form which details the risks involved, sort of like the disclosure form that is standard in real estate deals. Even in the stock market, when you open an account you must sign papers which inform you of the risks. The documentation is much thicker for options and margin accounts. i would have no objection to that sort of regulation.
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Lee
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If someone does something stupid because they didn't make themselves aware of the risks involved then they have no one to blame but themselves. It is not the government's job to prevent people from making mistakes any more than it is the government's job to protect anyone from the consequences of their actions. If you get burned its your own fault.

Lee


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Confused boy
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But shouldn't the government protect people from tricksters who are deliberately trying to decieve people who are in need of money. Otherwise its just free rein to exploit the less intelligent.

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'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


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Lee
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I'll trust the government to protect the less intelligent from exploitation the day it stops exploiting them itself.

All I can say is caveat venditor.


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LilBlueSmurf
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You both made some good points, Lee and CB ...

I think information should defineatly be provided to people wanting to do this. And i defineatly do NOT agree w/ it being a *business*. Sure, getting money for the use of your womb is acceptable, but i don't think you should continue to do it and make your everyday job being pregnant. I dunno why, but that just doesn't sit very well w/ me.

This is something i'm interested in doing later, when i'm old enough to have my own kids. I want to do it b/c i think everyone should be able to have their own, biological children, and if i can get a little money along the way for my troubles, great. If not, that's okay too.

There should be some sort of education available to people who want to do this. Like, counseling sessions you MUST go through, w/ both sets of parents, before you can even begin the process. It really shouldn't be an option. That way, if people do end up getting "burned", they can't say they didn't know what was going to happen.


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