Donate Now
We've Moved! Check out our new boards.
  New Poll  
my profile | directory login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » Learning about circumcision with my mom and sister (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Learning about circumcision with my mom and sister
zebgirl
Activist
Member # 54

Icon 1 posted      Profile for zebgirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In a recent web poll on a site for women, fifty percent say would have their son circumcised, forty nine percent said they would not and one percent was undecided. Sounds pretty even to me.
Posts: 41 | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Heather     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Ron:
Dear Hanne,
Yes, I have read your excellent article on HPV. In it is says:
"The genital strains of HPV are a major contributor to cervical cancer, which tens of thousands of women develop each year, and around 7,000 women die from annually."

I.e. a major women's health problem and HPV is a major cause.

Unfortunately, neither in the article nor anywhere I have read is there any evidence to support your statement that uncircumcized men are not more likely to contract or transmit HPV. On the contrary, I just heard a talk by a medical anthrpologist who studies cervical cancer in Mexico (the major cause of death of women in reproductive age in southern Mexico, ie among Indian women!)in which she mentioned evidence to the contrary. She didn't give me her references, though I think I'll get in touch with her and see if I can get them.

My point is, Hanne, that this is something that people don't want to face up to. I suggest we all do some digging and find out really what is known and what is just wishful thinking about this.

By the way, I think I'll take the chance here to say how much I appreciate the effort you and Heather and everyone make here. These boards are so important. Thanks.



Actually, that was my article.

There is a reason why circumcision wasn't mentioned in that article : it is irrelevent based on the current medical information. A penis which is washed and clean whether it's foreskin is there or not can STILL transmit disease. Soap and water, or a lack or extra little bacteria, can't fix that. Only a barrier method can.

I'll also add that from the male perspective, unless there is an aactive wart, HPV is highly difficult to diagnose correctly, because penile swabbing isn't a simple thing.

I agree with you, HPV needs paying attention to. But so do most sexually transmitted diseases, and I'm inclined to think that has less to do with circumcision and notions of cleanliness than it does with people waking up and getting hip to safe sex practices, realistically assessing risk, and staying consistently responsible in their sex practices.

And thank you for the thank you.


Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Heather     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Zeb:
We could use a parent or two to pop into the new parents forum, so if your Mom is so inclined, I'd love to have her.

- HC


Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JeHa
Neophyte
Member # 1131

Icon 1 posted      Profile for JeHa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, I just joined Scarleteen because of this discussion. I just need to say that I am NOT curcumsized and am very glad. The main benefits I see is that sex feels absolutly amazing, even before the orgasm it is absolute bliss. I obviously cannot speak for someone who is curcumsized, because I never have been. But I assume that sex is so good because of the foreskin (I have read a lot about it and I am convinced this is the reason.)
When I was younger I was always afraid my uncurcumsized penis would turn women off.
I am with someone I am truly in love with and it really makes no difference to her. I dont think that many women are truly that shallow as to lose interest in someone they are in love with simply because of a peice of skin. As as mentioned before when it is full erect the penis passes the foreskin and looks the same as a circumsised penis (Im assuming ) But even when fully erect the skin rubs and lubricates the head during intercourse.
I have never had any problems with keeping my penis clean, all it really takes is pulling the skin back for a few seconds in the shower. Hardly something that is worth having a peice of me chopped off for.
There is one thing I do NOT like about my uncircumsised penis. This is something I have never seen mentioned anywhere, so maybe it is only my problem. But it comes with the area of peeing. Most of the time I remember to pull this skin back before I pee. But if I dont (this was worse when I was little, Much to my mothers dismay ) I cannot aim as well. The skin can interfere with the flow if the urine and send it in directions I would never expect. I have never had any problems with burning foreskin or aything like that, but my skin might be just a tiny bit to long so that it interferes. This is just something for parents to think about, their son may never have this problem, but I do.
Anyways, despite the minor problems, the benefits to sex make it well worth it. Plus the knowledge that my parent were open minded enough to allow me to make the decision for myself. I would NEVER want someone to cut off a part of me for some silly cultural tradition, If I want something peirced, cut, or inked, I should make that decision.
I think it goes without saying that if I have a son he will NOT be curcumsized until he is old enough to decide if he wants it.
I am just hoping i can provide the view of someone who is not circumsized to the discussion. Please ask me any questions about what I have experienced. I am an open person and will helpfully respond to any deep prying personal questions you may have .
Thank you for reading this, and I truly hope I can help stop at least one circumsision.


-Jeff


Posts: 1 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TGrrl
Neophyte
Member # 1216

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TGrrl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Men feel very strongly about their penises. Men who have been circumcized are not going to admit that circumcision is bad. That would be the same as saying their own penis was deficient.

Rarely circumcision is a positive thing because a child has an actual medical condition that would benefit from circumsision. Heigene is not an issue, the heigene concerns of being uncircumcized are trivial. Girls go through way way more.

As for them looking better...please! Are you going to give your daughters breast implants too?

Unless there is a medical or cultural reason, there is no reason to cut off a healthy normal part of your baby boy's genitals. And jewish girls, you don't have to do it either if you don't want to.


Posts: 2 | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TGrrl
Neophyte
Member # 1216

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TGrrl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The foreskin is a healthy normal part of the male genitalia. The only reason to cut it off is if there is are medical or cultural concerns.

As for the heigene thing...please! Are you going to give your baby daughter a historectomy so she won't have to deal with periods? It's not very hard for an uncut guy to keep himself clean.

As for what looks better...please! Are you going to do other 'cosmetic' surgery on your kids, without their consent?

And don't trust circumcized guys who say it's "better". What are they going to say, "yup my penis sure is defective". Of course they'll say its better.

If your kid really wants to be cut, he can get cut later by his own choice.


Posts: 2 | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Circ'd
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post 
I myself have been circumcised and I don't think that there is anything wrong in the practise of it, just the way in which it is used for religious purposes.
I was circumcised at birth so i don't know what masturbation or sex feels like with a foreskin, but i know it feels great without one. My penis is very sensitive and so can be aroused easily enough so there is no problem, I feel, with circumcision in that respect. It's just the religious reasons that I find hard to accept. I wasn't done for religious reasons, so I probably won't understand the "Faith" involved, but I do think its up to the male involved to be able to choose for himself if it appeals to him.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Circ'd
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by TGrrl:
Men feel very strongly about their penises. Men who have been circumcized are not going to admit that circumcision is bad. That would be the same as saying their own penis was deficient.

Rarely circumcision is a positive thing because a child has an actual medical condition that would benefit from circumsision. Heigene is not an issue, the heigene concerns of being uncircumcized are trivial. Girls go through way way more.

As for them looking better...please! Are you going to give your daughters breast implants too?

Unless there is a medical or cultural reason, there is no reason to cut off a healthy normal part of your baby boy's genitals. And jewish girls, you don't have to do it either if you don't want to.


I'd just like to say to you that a circumcised penis isn't necessarily a deficient penis. Yes ok it is "lacking" a foreskin (lacking being another word for deficient) but you say it as if there is something seriously wrong with a circumcised penis. Things can go wrong, but this is not always the case. I'm not saying it's right and all males should have it done, in fact I'm probably more against it because there is no real need for it, except maybe the odd medical reason.
In fact the hygiene concerns aren't always trivial. Although I don't agree with most religious reasons for circumcision, I do agree with one of the reasons stated by Muslims. Because it is generally hot in Muslim countries, and this can cause a number of infections to spring up under the foreskin unless washed very frequently. (I learn't RS). In fact, this is the main reason why Muslims perform the rite, afterall, they don't have a covenant with God to perfoorm it like in Jewdaism.
And I hope you're not saying that circumcised penises look ugly. The more mutilated ones probably do, but most, like mine, are perfectly healthy and nice looking (I don't think that circ'd or noncirc'd penises look better than each other anyway, its down to how the penis has been formed - some can look nice, some just naturally dont!)


IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ashchris
Neophyte
Member # 1336

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ashchris     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I am circumsized. I don't know why my parents chose to do that, but I really couldn't care less. I feel erectile sensations perfectly fine, I orgasm fine, no loss of sensation here...
I am actually sort of glad, since I don't have to clean nasty yellow stuff out of my foreskin...

------------------
13, male.


Posts: 36 | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aria51
Scarleteen Volunteer
Member # 653

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Aria51     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had my son circumcized. Do I regret it? No. Will I ever regret it? No again. I read literature about it from the moment I found out I was having a boy until I told the doctor to go ahead and do it. I discussed it with my parents, my boyfriend, a friend of mine who is not circumcized, my minister, and the baby's father. I feel that I made a very informed decision. I watched them do it, and my son did not protest in the least. As a matter of fact, the only thing that DID upset him was getting a Hepatitis vaccine. So as far as I believe, people should make the decision, be it for themselves or for their children, and not feel guilty about their decision, whatever it is.
Posts: 1287 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
englands
Neophyte
Member # 1378

Icon 1 posted      Profile for englands     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I see alot of women's opinion's on the site. Well I am a guy who is circumcised, and it is no problem for me, in fact I think that it's a good thing, I don't have as much risk of infection. (Which by the way can cause some serious and painful problems.) I think that it looks better, and I resent the fact that some of you feel it's barbaric. What's barbaric is your inability to keep an open mind.
Posts: 1 | From: Canada | Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Heather     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Aria51:
I had my son circumcized. Do I regret it? No. Will I ever regret it? No again. I read literature about it from the moment I found out I was having a boy until I told the doctor to go ahead and do it. I discussed it with my parents, my boyfriend, a friend of mine who is not circumcized, my minister, and the baby's father. I feel that I made a very informed decision. I watched them do it, and my son did not protest in the least. As a matter of fact, the only thing that DID upset him was getting a Hepatitis vaccine. So as far as I believe, people should make the decision, be it for themselves or for their children, and not feel guilty about their decision, whatever it is.


I think what Aria is saying here is incredibly valuable.

Looking over this conversation the one thing I will add is that from what we know medically, it is a better idea to make this decision as early as possible. Most doctors and sexologists agree that circumscision at a later age is far more painful, and can have greater complications.

I would also strongly second Aria on the notion that a parent simply has a right to make an informed decision on what is best for their child. It's what being a parent is all about.


Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
negative*nancy
Activist
Member # 877

Icon 1 posted      Profile for negative*nancy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
oh phew.

I wanted to get my som circumcized when he's born in january, and I almost felt bad after reading everyone's posts.

That last one made me feel better, that I wasn't being some sort of horrible tyrant.


Posts: 361 | From: toronto, ontario, canada | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Heather     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're not being a tyrant at all, and honestly, Nancy, nearly any mom here has read enough information on this on both sides of the fence, that I think any of us can rest assured than any decision you'd make is an informed one. And in my mind, that's what is important.

It may be worth pointing out that though the APA doesn't say circumscision is medically necessary, there are LOTS of things they say the same of, and thay also are not saying it is *harmful.* personally, I can see pros and cons on both sides of this issue, and I know that were I having a baby boy today I wouldn't be able to make a decision easily myself.


Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zebgirl
Activist
Member # 54

Icon 1 posted      Profile for zebgirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I recently was verbally abused for my opinion on the matter buy a few new friends. They think all guys should be circumcised no matter what people think. I tried to explain that people have different views on the matter. When I asked them how many they have seen to make an opinion about the subject, they didnt have much to say, they soon stopped being nasty to me.
Posts: 41 | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
uncut
Neophyte
Member # 1898

Icon 1 posted      Profile for uncut     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First of all I am uncircumcised. I love it very much and would not change a thing. I have noticed from reading peoples replies who have been circumcised, they almost seem a little biased towards circumcision.
As for circumcisio itself, the practice was created to curb sexual interests and stop masturbation.
For looks, I think that the uncircumcised penis looks a lot better. That's what it is meant to be.
Males who are circumcised have a tendency to thrust deeper when having intercourse with a female and sometimes hurt them, as to males who are uncircumcised, they make shorter and quicker thrusts that stimulate the clitoris.
My girlfriend is very satisfied with my uncircumcised penis and actually proclaimed to me that she would rather have an uncircumcised penis more. She also told me that she has been with both.
Masturbation with my uncircumcised penis is very exciting. I have no problem with stimulation and I feel very sensitive, which is a great feeling.
My girlfriend has also told me that when we have intercourse, she enjoys it much more with an uncircumcised penis because the foreskin creates a little friction and adds to the pleasure of the female.
And finally on the hygenic part, I have never had problems with my penis and always tkae to make sure it is clean. No matter if you are circumcised or not, you have to take great care to make sure it is clean.

Thanks
--
Note from Miz Scarlet:

Please, folks, when you are stating your own opinion or personal experience, qualify it. Though it may be your experience or your partner's experience, there is no general truth in blanket statements like this, " the practice was created to curb sexual interests and stop masturbation," that have no real basis in fact or history. Statements like this, "That's what it is meant to be," are simply subjective, and statements like this, "Males who are circumcised have a tendency to thrust deeper when having intercourse with a female and sometimes hurt them, as to males who are uncircumcised, they make shorter and quicker thrusts that stimulate the clitoris," are simply untrue. The gentleness of a lover depends on the person, not his penis.

In addition, I should note that the clitoris is ABOVE the vaginal opening, and no matter what kind of penis you've got, if it is penetrating a vaginal opening, it is not stimulating the clitoris directly unless you managed a feat of anatomy that gave you a forked penis that can do two things at once.

Let's watch what we present as fact and what we present as opinion. There is enough sexual mythology out there already, we certainly don't need to propegate more here.

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 14 November 2000).]


Posts: 4 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alpenkalb
Neophyte
Member # 1913

Icon 1 posted      Profile for alpenkalb     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am not circumcised and think it should be the boy's decision except for strong medical reasons.
Most girls prefer the looks of an uncut penis. When it is flaccid it doesn't like nice in neither case and when it is erect, I pull back the forskin so she can have a full view in the knob.
But there is one clear advantage: When we both want to make love and she happens to be rather dry, I pull my forskin to cover the gland. In this way I can easily enter like on rollers, it doesn't hurt her; then I wait inside, kissing her and within a few minutes it is all wet and wide.
She prefers that to fingering.

------------------


Posts: 5 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
entropie
Activist
Member # 26

Icon 1 posted      Profile for entropie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been reading this post, and trying to keep my opinion to myself but I came up with an idea.. since I'm not very knowledgable on the Jewish religion.. being a Kiwi and all!

Isn't circumcision like saying that God made a mistake when he created the male genitals?

If God wanted Jewish men to be recognised as Jewish, wouldn't he have made the Jewish person different (foreskin wise)?

I don't want to get into a debate on religion, but I was wondering what you guys think about this?

And another thought, if men are circumcised over a long period of time, through the generations, wouldn't the process of natural adaption begin (slowly, of course) to change the "natural" shape and size of the foreskin?

Please, no debate, just questions needing opinions and ideas..

entropie


------------------
honeylaser's site


Posts: 1030 | From: Aotearoa | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Heather     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A couple of things.

That kind of adaptation won't happen. Antoine Lavoisier, often considered the father of moden chemistry in the late 1700's, made a few errors in his thinking. One of which was that mice, if their tails were severed in each generation, would eventually beget mice with no tails. The guy went through a hell of a lotta mice who lost their poor tails, and alas, never a one was born without. genetics just doesn't work that way.

Hanne is probably the better person to ask, but to my understanding of the Jewish tradition, circumsision isn't done for God to recognize men as jews, but for men to recongnize men as jews.


Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
uncut
Neophyte
Member # 1898

Icon 1 posted      Profile for uncut     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually Miz Scarlett, it was done to curb sexual behavior and masturbation. I did research because I actually heard of it somewhere else. But when you questioned it, I went and did a little research and actually found out that circumcision was done for that purpose. But on the other hand, circumcision was done way before that, practiced by the Jews as a way to show their connection to God, that no other man can show. It was done to show the covenant between the Jews and God
Posts: 4 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Heather     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Uncut,
Circumcision has been done for numerous reasons throughout history, not one, and has been done so far back, no one can really postulate when exactly it first began or why. In other posts in this thread, it has been mentioned numerous times as to its relevance in the Judaic tradition, which is more complex than a covenant between God and Jews and involved simply being able to identify Jews in a simple way.

While some cultures have practiced circumcision in regards to dealing with issues of sexuality and human sin, in others it has been a matter of cultural identity, in others of perceived health benefits, and so forth.

However, by most scholars, circumcision is known to have been performed long before hebraic times in Africa, likely not for sexual reasons, but for tribal identity and symbolism. Some early Egyptian wall carvings found showing ritual circumcision in fact, suggest that it was a form of snake worship, done to mimic the snake shedding its skin as an act of rebirth. But even that isn't anything written in stone (well, painted in stone, but you see what I'm saying)however, because it has existed for so long, I have yet to hear a scholar even attempt to certify for what reason it was created because it dates so far back in history. If your own paleolithic research or someone elses has discovered otherwise, Hanne and I are always open to hearing new information when cited with credible sources.

In general, uncut, I was saying what I said in your post not to that one piece of information, but to the majority of what you posted as a whole, in both tone and content and a general bout of misinformation on numerous points.

It's great to have an opinion, just clarify that that is what it is, and be sure that what you post here is as inclusive as possible and nonjudgmental, and is in an appropriate tone.


------------------
Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

"If you're a bird, be an early early bird --
But if you're a worm, sleep late." - Shel Silverstein

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 11-18-2000).]


Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mamaalli
Activist
Member # 1917

Icon 1 posted      Profile for mamaalli     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My son was cut. It was my worst mistake as a mother. No one should tell me what I should and should not feel guilty about.

Bottom line : IT WAS NOT MY BODY!!!!!!

Not my body = not my choice!!!!

You dont know a mothers guilt until you see screaming in pain and infected, because of a wound that you PAID MONEY for somebody to inflict on them. Doesnt this seem ODD to anyone? There is NO medical reason for it. Its COSMETIC SURGERY.

Would you give your 12 year old daughter breast implants, to "look like her friends in the shower at school"?

My sons tiny, perfect penis was destroyed. I paid somebody to mutilate my sons body. Why? I still don't know. I had to change his diapers, and see his raw, bloody, inflamed penis stuck to the cotton of his diaper by dried blood and pus. No child deserves this.

Bladder infections are NOT more common in uncut boys. You simply must wash the penis. To cut a child to try and avoid a bladder infection is like pulling all of the teeth in a toddlers mouth to avoic cavities.

I am so sorry if I sound harsh, I know I do. I just made a horrible mistake, and pray that everyone thinks about ALL sides of the issue before doing this to their own child.

One last time

not my body = not my choice

You can never go back. You can have it done later, but once the doctor slices in, your childs foreskin is gone.


Posts: 85 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
live4travel
Activist
Member # 1772

Icon 1 posted      Profile for live4travel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey I've been reading these for a while. There seemed to be plenty of biased opinions on here, especially from the guys no doubt! What I don't understand is how circumsized guys think they KNOW that being circumsized feels better? They couldn't know, b/c they don't have it still. The same goes for uncircumsized guys, how do we know it feels better?

I myself am uncircumsized. It has in fact caused me a lot of suffering. First it was hard to pull the foreskin back, and secondly and worst of all..I was made fun of about it throughout grade school, to the point where I hated my body and was so shy about myself. I still am some today, except that I've LEARNED to ACCEPT what I have and LIVING with it.

I was also worried that a girl wouldn't like it, especially to like ever give "head" to me or whatever. But now that I've talked to people, especially girls about it, I feel a lot better about my own body and what I have. But don't get me wrong, I still worry about it, I just am able to talk about it now and not feel embarassed or bad about it. What DO you girls think about uncircumsized guys? do you think anything different about it? I'm guessing not.
I don't know whether I'd have my child cut or uncut, I am just going to wait until I have one which will be QUITE a while hopefully. Well I had a lot more to say WAY earlier, but I accidently did something and ERASED 3 paragraphs of writing! that really stunk!

One more thing, I've been told by several adults and exploring on the internet, I believe it was IGNformen.com or something like that, that uncircumsized guys get more pleasure or whatever, no wait...It was that they were more sensitive, and once you cut, your not that sensitive anymore. In the message boards. That's where I went before coming here which is more my age group. I don't know if thats exactly what it said, but it was about being uncircumsized and having more sensitivity. Well I thought I'd throw this in for Some comments on it.

Good night everyone!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING *whoever's having it*


Posts: 116 | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
entropie
Activist
Member # 26

Icon 1 posted      Profile for entropie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by niceguy16:
I was also worried that a girl wouldn't like it, especially to like ever give "head" to me or whatever. But now that I've talked to people, especially girls about it, I feel a lot better about my own body and what I have. But don't get me wrong, I still worry about it, I just am able to talk about it now and not feel embarassed or bad about it. What DO you girls think about uncircumsized guys? do you think anything different about it? I'm guessing not.

Un-cut, most definitely.. things are more attractive in their natural state, which is why things like plastic surgery turn me off..

entropie

------------------
honeylaser's site


Posts: 1030 | From: Aotearoa | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bettie
Scarleteen Volunteer
Member # 78

Icon 1 posted      Profile for bettie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have said it before and it seems I'll be saying a gazillion times, I don't have sexual activites, enjoy sexual activites, or choose a male partner based on whether his penis is circumcized or uncircumcized. I do all those things based on my attraction and feelings for the person. I am sure I am not the only person on that planet like this.

------------------
Louise Lalonde
-Scarleteen Sexpert & Volunteer du Jour

"Glad to have a friend like you,
And glad to just be me"
-Carol Hall


Posts: 1060 | From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Heather     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, you aren't alone, chickie.

Heck, I don't even care if someone HAS a penis or not to begin with.


Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bettie
Scarleteen Volunteer
Member # 78

Icon 1 posted      Profile for bettie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am on your wave length babe.

A little side note. Among my male partners I can not even remember the circumcision status of their penises. I don't think I really noticed except for my husband's because he was scasrred physcially from it and so we discussed it. With the rest, who knows? I didn't ask them to drop their pants so I could sketch it for prosperity's sake or take notes on index cards for my penis filing system.

Wow, I am cracking myself up. Better quit while I am ahead.

------------------
Louise Lalonde
-Scarleteen Sexpert & Volunteer du Jour

"Glad to have a friend like you,
And glad to just be me"
-Carol Hall


Posts: 1060 | From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
uncut
Neophyte
Member # 1898

Icon 1 posted      Profile for uncut     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is the information to back up my argument stated earlier.
While circumcision as a religious rite has been around for thousands of years, the practice took hold in the U.S. in the late 1800s as a means of curbing sexual diseases and masturbation. (Ironically, a 1997 study published in JAMA showed that the trimmed self-indulge more than the untrimmed, and also engage in greater variety of sexual practices.) By the 1950s, circumcision assumed a class distinction, and by the 1970s, 80 percent of American male infants were circumcised. Today, that figure has dropped to 60 percent, with the lowest rate–34 percent–found on the West Coast. This still handily outdistances the international average of 15 percent.
Milos cites a 1999 study published in the British Journal of Urology which documented that women were more likely to have an orgasm (and less likely to experience vaginal discomfort) with an uncircumcised partner. The study concluded that the uncircumcised penis glides within its sheath of moveable skin with minimal friction. Because of this, uncut men use shorter thrusts than cut partners, who drive more deeply to launch an orgasm. The shorter thrusts of uncircumcised men, according to 71 percent of the respondents, allowed more contact with the mons pubis and clitoris, creating more orgasms for the women. http://infocirc.org/mf0899.htm

By R. Daniel Foster - Men's Fitness, September 1999


During the Victorian era, doctors prescribed circumcision as a way to curb masturbation, a practice then thought to be immoral. But circumcision did not stamp out masturbation, nor did it curb promiscuity, something else 19th century doctors thought circumcision would cure. No wonder, then, that some say circumcision is a barbaric and ancient procedure in search of a modern medical rationale. http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/circumcision990113.html

A Cutting Controversy
By Dr. Timothy Johnson
ABCNEWS.com


Posts: 4 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Heather     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Uncut....

...and all of that information being so, it is why we told you that was NOT the reason circumcision originally began, which is in fact what you had initially stated. No one was saying that at certain times in the last two centuries that was not one of the ideas surrounding circumcision. What we were saying is that that was certainly not why it began thousands of years ago.

However, as to the "thrusting" iformation I think you may want to look at it's source and context a bit more closely (and, btw, when you cite a quote verbatim as you did in your last post, you may also want to follow copyright law and be sure and footnote it) as far as her potential bias and her experience (or lack thereof) in dealing with female orgasm. Women do not fake orgasm because men are circumsized, as she states in the article you linked to, and any sexuality author or sexologist who read that must have laughed themselves silly. If that were so, lesbians would never fake orgasm. Women would never fake orgasm during oral sex or anal sex or manual sex. Heterosexual and homosexual men wouldn't fake orgasm. And they all do. Scores and scores of people fake orgasm, and it isn't about circumcision, especially when there isn't even a penis in the picture.

Likewise, what is meant by "short thrusting" is actually simply a male pelvis pressed into a female pelvis tightly to stimulate the clitoris, not the penis. That can be done by any male partner (or simply by a female either on top of her male partner, or by holding his gluetus when he is on top) regardless of his penis. Clitoral stimultion can be done, of course, by MANY, many different means and regardless of the penis in question, intercourse is the least effective and expedient means of doing so anyway.

I feel the need to mention that having had numerous male partners, both cut and uncut, and having had numerous sorts of intercourse, nobody's thrusting with their penis alone makes a difference in regards to the clitoris. If you ask around, I'm quite confident you'll find that most women and most sexologists agree.

But most of this is irrelevant, as is plenty of what we say here, which we try and tell people here again and again and again. Because something is written once -- here or anywhere else -- doesn't make it so, and it's only so important. What is important is your own experience with your partners, and a penis has about as much to do with that as the length or shape of your index finger. I will not support arguments here for body part superiority, I simply won't, and there is no reason for it, as anyone with a decent amount of sexual experience knows If you want to know why I won't continue or endorse that sort of argument, take a good look at what happened in Nazi Germany. That may sound dramatic, but it's a poignant illustration of the ills caused by the flase belief in superiority based on physical appearance.

Let me state for the records -- setting aside my education ond professional data -- completely based on my personal experience with handfuls of lovers, male and female, cut and uncut: it doesn't make a bleddin' difference on my end as a woman. Not a bit -- not for intercourse or -- more importantly -- a holistic sexual experience which is full body and multi-sensational and which makes intercourse by itself look as exciting as an algebra textbook.

We all have different bodies, and flatly, unless we are a parent making a decision, what's done is done and we differ, and I think that's just ducky. But what I know not simply as a sexuality author, but as a person with loads of actual sexual experience is that no one's body part is what makes one lover better than another. It's that part between everyone's ears that makes all the difference in the world.

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 11-24-2000).]


Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alpenkalb
Neophyte
Member # 1913

Icon 1 posted      Profile for alpenkalb     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Last time when I was in Egypt (Luxor), I have seen a some pictures cut in stone describing a battle of that time (ca. 2500 b.c). One of the picture showed a huge heap of penises that where cut off from fallen ennemy soldiers. They were counted for war statistics. In order to differentiate between friend and foe, the penises had to be different. According to one theory that was the beginning of circumcision.

If we realised that most of our inventions are the result of wartime research (radar, splitting the atom, satellites), it seems possible that the invention of circumcision is also a remnant of war.

------------------


Posts: 5 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

  New Poll   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Get the Whole Story! Go Home to SCARLETEEN: Sex Ed for the Real World | Privacy Statement

Copyright 1998, 2014 Heather Corinna/Scarleteen
Scarleteen.com: Providing comprehensive sex education online to teens and young adults worldwide since 1998

Information on this site is provided for educational purposes. It is not meant to and cannot substitute for advice or care provided by an in-person medical professional. The information contained herein is not meant to be used to diagnose or treat a health problem or disease, or for prescribing any medication. You should always consult your own healthcare provider if you have a health problem or medical condition.

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3