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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sexual Ethics and Politics » Pornography (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Pornography
Amanda2u2002
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I dont see anything wrong with pornography just as the fact that you aren't abusing it.
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SuitableBoy
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I think that pornography is fine as long as it is with consenting adults, and who are genuinely consenting.
The pornography industry does seem to be quite scary though, after watching a programme about a woman who wanted to get into soft porn, and who was then almost raped, and probably would have been had there not been a camera crew there. She may have got into a porn film, or photoshoot, and have seemed consenting, when really she would have been forced to do more hardcore work than she felt comfortable with. I think that that is a worrying factor, you don't always know these things, and you don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Also, some pornography is very misogynistic, I think that there needs to be some re-alighnment in that women should be provided for to a larger extent.

One of the worst things about porn is the fact that some boys try and learn their 'technique' from it. It's usually a very, very bad idea. A couple of jabs here and there and you've got a woman screaming in ecstacy... it really doesn't happen like that!

So overall, pornography is okay, as long as it isn't too extreme (but that's personal preference) and is not exploitative. It would be improved by being a little more realistic with the women's orgasms sometimes....


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nifty
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eeh.

yes some porn turns me on, and some porn turns my boyfriend on. we just like different types.

i like written stories, i find them easier to cope with - i mean, a writer can get accross the subjects feelings and emotions as well as the sexual act.

my boyfriend prefers photography, he says that if you get a picture in your head you can imagine from there, but i dont like the photos cos i dont see any emotion going into them. a good photographer will put emotion through but in his own way and its just a personal thing, i dont see that emotion anywhere most of the time. you need a high class porn magazine with high-class photographers, playboy, i guess...

in any relationship its likely to be a bit wierd at first (different likes) but i love him and so i will deal with it (to a point!! if you are not comfortable with somthing, dont do it, right?)

i just think porn is ok when used in the right way - but not in the wrong way, eg. kiddie porn and beastiality and stuff - ik.

personally i like the stories because hey, there are alot of ideas, right? i use it to enhance a relationship...

i havnt got the way-with-words you people have but i hope someone catches my drift?


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Cup of Joe
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Porn is fine with me. I have nothing against it as long as it is tasteful. I like porn. In fact, I think I'm addicted to it, but I am making progress. I view alot less of it now. Every now and then I'll get the urge to watch it though. It's amazing how much crappy porn is out there. It isn't really geared towards women much and I think it should be. Although it is fantasy, they can cater to the female demographics as well. It can also get old really fast. They're not very creative, but I guess the key here is moderation and patience, because it can take a long time to find good porn. Personally, I like porn with story (no matter how stupid it is) or the ones that make fun of real movies.

Erotica is also great but it's not for everyone. You have to have the attention span to read and a good imagination.


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Greenguy
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I know I'm not being original with this, but it seems to me that pornography is pretty analogous to food. There is junk pornography and there is health pornography (which a lot of people prefer to call erotica). There is also the really expensive stuff that hangs in museums and tries to pretend it has nothing to do with what is outside on the street. There is also some stuff which is just toxic, including child porn.

Just as eating a single hamburger is not going to screw up your life (the cow the beef came from might see things differently, but that is a seperate question ), the occasional viewing/reading of even junk porn is not going to do much damage. However, a lifetime of consuming not much else will make you either a candidate for diabetes, cardio problems and depression, or the holder of pretty twisted attitudes about sexuality, depending on which side of the equation you are looking at.

Junk porn, like most junk food, is made by huge corporations who make equally huge profits while ripping off their workers (although the performers in a porn video probably feel better about the size of their paycheck than the workers at McDonalds). It goes for the lowest common denominator, and emphasises volume over quality.

On the other hand there is health pornography which can be deeply nourishing. It expands our understanding of people, makes us feel better about the world and is artistically beautiful.

Health porn is mostly made by independent artists who do it because they love it, even if they are not paid much, just like the battling food co-op or the cafe run by people who do it mostly for the joy of cooking real food.

Personally I suspect the best porn is that produced by people for themselves, be it home videos or erotic letters/emails/phonecalls to each other. Just like food grown in your own garden it might not have the quality control of mass produced products, but it tastes real.

Of course food is a biological need for everyone. Some form of arousal is a psycholigical need for a lot of people, but hardly on the same level. Consequently, even someone living on a diet of McDonalds Fried Cola will be aware there are alternatives, whereas many people who have only encountered junk porn, whether they love it or hate it, will be surprised to learn that health pornography exists.

But it does. It may be sucky to say it, but if you're old enough to check out MizScarlet's work and you don't conclude it is nutricious, delicious and low fat, then you're probably a breatharian.

The biggest problem with junkfood is the advertising budget - we are forcefed ads for the stuff until we can hardly find the alternatives. Same with porn. I am seriously sick of my email account filling up with spam from corporate clones claiming to be "amateurs". It's like some fast food chain buying up a health food store, putting its mass market rubbish on the shelves and luring people inside on false pretences.

One approach is to boycott such chains, but that doesn't mean we don't eat, it means we need to do the research to know what is really out there and what we want to try. I'm totally with Hanne on that.

Sorry this is so long, but I really like analogies I tend to get carried away.


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Gumdrop Girl
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I just read an article in the LA Times that deplored the lack of regulations within the porn industry. Yes, the bigger names like Vivid have rigorous testing schedules, demand condom use, and have union-type labor rules (are some of the groups actually unionized?). But a lot of the "Gonzo" films (ultra low-budget porn movies that are shot in someone's house or paartment using a camcorder or just really simple equipment) are shot with little or no regulation. Directors refuse to let actors use condoms. They shoot for hours and hours and hours at a time. And STD testing is practically minimal. They profiled a former porn actress who contracted HIV during a shoot and is now very ill and indigent in Hawaii.

So the issue is should there be industry-wide rules and regulations? How should they be implemented? What should be implemented?

imho, I would like to see more rigorous STD testing of actors and actresses. I would like to encourage a market for safer sex pornography over unprotected porn. and like OSHA demanding hardhats in construction sites, it should be an industry regulation to demand condom use. As for work hours, I don't mind so much as long as the workers consent to it. I think the Gonzo films tend to attract and exploit poorer actors who really need the money and as a result, they are subject to more dangerous conditions than the Vivid girls. After all, if money is the dangling carrot, the director can get the actors to whatever they want even if it is potentially deadly. Once these actors are infected with something like HIV, they will probably be too poor to get decent treatment.

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According to the experts, I am some species of badass.


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freakedout
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i just think it's weird when others talk about it near me...or to me for that fact. But other than that, i could care less either way.

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there's no such thing as no chance


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bettie
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I just wanted to point out that for there to be regulations from an outside body (say, the government or some social service group), then pornography would have to be seen as a legitmate form of employment by most of society. This is not the case. It certainly is not by the present American administration.

Also that particular article I believe is based on information gathered 5 years ago. While I do think some working conditions are not very good, from my personal experience and from the folks I know in the industry, the basics of proper hygiene are there. I have been to high schools that were messier and less clean than the sets I ahev been on. I have also seen very good safer sex practices on Gonzo sets, but I also know of people who choose to not use them.

Since I think regulation and unionization are truly pipe dreams when it comes to the porno business under the current administration (and most any future possibility), I think taking care of yourself as a performer is going to come down to personal responsiblity and people organizing amongst themselves to only work under conditions they find acceptable. And this I do find to be occuring among some groups in the industry.

I am not sure if money is the bottom line for performers making risky choices. Many people within the industry are just a couple of years older than most Scarleteen readers and we have seen a great deal of misinformation about safer sex practices, as well as people just going by on wishful thinking amongst them. Perhaps if we had well rounded sex education programs, people who choose to go into the porn industry would make better choices for themselves.

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-Scarleteen Sexpert

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And glad to just be me"
-Carol Hall


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SpeedingMusic
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I was wondering if I could get any information on what MsScarlet does, or on her herself. Im a espiring photographer and just interested in photography modeling ect, not porn or anything like that. I would just like to chat or something.
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Heather
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For reasons which may be obvious, the adult work I do is simply not a good topic for extended discussion here.

But to sum up, what I do is moedling, art, photography, fiction and nonfiction addressing adult sexuality and erotica creatively and artistically. Some people would call some of it pornography, others would not, but by the standard defintion of porn and erotica -- material created to induce or express sexual desire -- it is often that.

But it is adult material. And ethically and legally, it's not work that can be produced by anyone under 21 (when it comes to the visual), or viewed by anyone under 18, so discussing it here is a bit moot and not altogether appropriate.

Suffice it to say, simple Google searches of my name will pull up all of the kinds of work I do and lots of press pieces. Should those links lead you to sites you CAN legally view, you're welcome to contact me through them, though I'll tell you in advance that anyone under 21 asking about doing erotic work is going to get a clear "Call back when you're 21 from me." That isn't just because of legalities. It's also because doing work in that medium, in this culture, can really limit what you will be able to do with the rest of your life in profound, and sometimes very negative, ways.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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Shann2002
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I am not too turned on when it comes to porn, but it does give my boyfriend and I some new ideas sometimes for our playtime in the sack. It gives us new things to try at times when we can't think of anything else.
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stevesbaby131
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i think SOME is very arousing, others just are disterbing, like haveing their bodily fluids all over each other...one word: EWWW! lol and i think the porn stars are just getting a really high risk of sexually transmitted desieases and giving it to others if they don't know they have it. one other thing i have to say....what would their spouses have to say about their wife/husband doin another man/woman on t.v.?!?!?! that really gets me mad! if my b/f was a porn star and was screwin around with another woman i'd dump him as fast as possible!...sorry i got a little carried away lol. last but not least, wouldn't you feel a little uncomfortable being butt-naked in font of millions of men and women?!? especially if you are having sex with someone on t.v.?!? i could never be THAT confident with my body, and most of the women think they have to be super skinny and be "beautiful" in order to have guys and some girls gawk over them.i think you don't have to not even cast a shadow in order to be "beautiful," i think being "beautiful" is all in the way of how YOU think of yourself, not anyone else...thanx for listening to me


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~*~HuGs AnD kIsSeS~*~

[This message has been edited by stevesbaby131 (edited 02-16-2003).]


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Dzuunmod
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Keep in mind, stevesbaby, that there are many people here - and of course in the world beyond - who don't see monogamy as the only model for relationships. There are plenty of people who have sex with more than one person just because they want to - and their partners are just fine with it.

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You can twist his body 'til it faces backwards/Those plastic features/You could make somebody a pretty little wife/But don't let anybody tell you how to live your life.
-Elvis Costello, Tear Off Your Own Head (It's a Doll Revolution)


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Gumdrop Girl
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stevesbaby131, that's just you, and that's the point. Some people either need the money badly enough or are comfortable enough with their bodies that they can and want to pose for pronographic photos or act in pornographic movies. Not everybody has the motivation to do that.

As for the relationships these people form, not everybody is monogamous. Porn actors and models are people, too, and they sometimes fall in love and marry. Sometimes they breakup with their boyfriends and girlfriends. They form agreements with their partners that what they do as work is *work*. Or they make arrangements with many partners and agree to stay within the boundaries that they set.

As for STDs, that is a risk, especially in less-regulated arenas of adult entertainment (see my previous post further up the screen). But in more mainstream sections of the industry, there are industry labor rules and standards that dictate that actors need to be tested monthy from STDs, and there is a growing contingent of safer sex pornography.

======

Now for my own rant about pornography. I was listening to a radio morning show a few days ago, and the guest was talking about porn and how it turned him off to see porn actors wearing condoms. The DJs agreed that condoms were a turn off. They thought that condoms destroyed the mood and the fantasy.

Well, my take on that is: yes, pornography is about fantasy. But to craft that fantasy, oftentimes you use real people. The reality of the situation is that real people can get real diseases. If you want total fantasy porn, you're probably going to have to go computer-generated images or animated porn (hentai etc.). Otherwise, you gotta realize that even though it's a fantasy in your head, those ppl on your TV were really having sex, and assuming the risks involved. Why make their job more dangerous than it has to be?

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Universal Law #4721: Any joke can be made funnier with the word "goatf**ker." Corollary, any story can be made more entertaining by adding a few ninjas.


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stevesbaby131
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i know, i was just sayin, if my b/f did that i would be upset because he is doin it with other people and could give me a disease.and it was only my opinion, i was just sayin how i feel and by the way gumdrop, you are totally right

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~*~HuGs AnD kIsSeS~*~


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Kite
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quote:
Originally posted by Gumdrop Girl:

Why make their job more dangerous than it has to be?

I agree a 100% with you there. Those DJs are sort of like the people who are mad if a circus has safety nets for trapezists, since it "just not the same with a net". I find that attitude extremely arrogant, selfish, and stupid. grrrrrr


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punkfag
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ooohhh...porn...I love having this discussion (especially on crowded subway trains)

I am totally porn-positive. That doesn't mean that I like most porn.
(I'm now going to be a bit objective. Being as queer as I am, I manage to identify with and get turned on by gay, lesbian, and straight porn)

Straight porn- generally my least favorite. aside from the feminist stuff, I find it so sexist. the women look like they're in pain. they shriek, not moan. often they're being pushed by their necks into a bed, literally being pounded. It is such a turn-off...it's emotionally hard to watch these women so clearly being pieces of meat. the one exception is usually soft-core het stuff...it's cheesy as hell, but it's fun and so much less degrading

lesbian porn- first let me make a distinction between dyke porn, girl-on-girl porn, and lesbian porn.

girl-on-girl porn- made by straight men, for straight men. the girls don't look like lesbians. they have nails that make me feel the pain. too many shots below the waist. bad quality. not what real queer grrls do.

lesbian porn- made by wimmin for wimmin. there is too much plot, too mnay weird flower shots, not enough shots below the waist.

dyke porn- great. femmes and butches, tranny bois and grrrls. hot. piercing and tattoos. girls with real bodies. the best.

gay porn- there are no women, so there's less exploitation and degredation (unless you want that, in which case there's plently of S/M stuff). i love the attitude- no pretense of a plot. the boys are cute. it's fun and hot.

Regardless of what floats your boat, I think that it's really important for people to be allowed access to porn. I even think that the legal age for buying it should be 16. If you don't want your kids having sex, you better belive they'll be masturbating.


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Milke
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What does a lesbian look like, and why does having women involved in something mean exploitation is also involved? Why should the same thing go for kink?

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Milke, SSBD, RATS, TMNTP

Anyone perfect must be lying, anything easy has its cost
Anyone plain can be lovely, anyone loved can be lost


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Dzuunmod
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Good questions, Milke. Another one to ask might be, who is anyone to say what 'real' lesbians do?

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You can twist his body 'til it faces backwards/Those plastic features/You could make somebody a pretty little wife/But don't let anybody tell you how to live your life.
-Elvis Costello, Tear Off Your Own Head (It's a Doll Revolution)


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Maharet
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quote:
Originally posted by punkfag:
gay porn- there are no women, so there's less exploitation and degredation (unless you want that, in which case there's plently of S/M stuff).
[/B]

...and another question: why is nudity/sex etc only degrading/explotative if there are women involved as you seem to be implying?


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Heather
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quote:
who is anyone to say what 'real' lesbians do?

I see where you're going with this Dzuun, and to a large degree, I agree.

I do think, however, we can say that most lesbians in life aren't suddenly lesbian in a flash of an eye or pulling girls into bed at the wishes of their boyfriends, or simply choosing female partners because men are watching, which is how a lot of lesbian activity is depiected in mainstream pornography, and that tends to feed the notion/delusion that women who love women (or lust after women) don't do so because of women, but because of men.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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Milke
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True, but most straight women don't spend their spare time seducing the pizza boy, and most men don't get ahead in life simply through having a big schlong. I think it's safe to say that trashy porn is trashy porn. and has little to do with reality regardless of the implied orientations of those involved.

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Milke, with an L, SSBD, RATS, TMNTP

Anyone perfect must be lying, anything easy has its cost
Anyone plain can be lovely, anyone loved can be lost


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Heather
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...or perhaps that fantasy is just that.

So yes, basically I'd agree with that. But I do think some of what punkfag was getting at is WHOSE fantasies those in mainstream pornography often are tends to be very limited, primarily being those of men.

(Although I do know some scriptwriters for a few mainstream companies who are actually female, however, they're required to cater very strictly to the usual formulas and a sterotypically straight male audience)

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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Milke
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quote:
. . . a sterotypically straight male audience

That's a big part of the problem, isn't it? It's really unfortunate, for men and women, that some of the gender stereotypes that exist are so readily accepted. I'd doubt that the majority of men really find a lot of things portrayed in mainstream porn sexy at all, or find the idea of large penises being absolutely necessary, and the only thing that pleases women very reassuring. I think things are changing -- it's getting a lot easier to reach large audiences with a minimum of effort (thank you, internet), and I do think our kids are going to look back at a lot of current smut and wonder what the heck we were thinking.

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Milke, with an L, SSBD, RATS, TMNTP

Anyone perfect must be lying, anything easy has its cost
Anyone plain can be lovely, anyone loved can be lost


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Heather
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Things are and aren't changing, and to be honest, the net isn't where the big money is, and big money is what drives the pornography market.

One still has to dig pretty deep to find alternatives, and the alternatives still have yet to be feasible long-term finanically. They'll likely never be even a fraction as profitable as the mainstream, but even with that accepted, very few of the alternatives are even marginally solvent and likely won't be for some time to come, if at all.

I agree with you: there are plenty of straight men out there who aren't satisfied with what is presented and available, however, enough of them still spend big enough money on it -- and little at all on the alternatives -- that it keeps getting produced en masse as-is.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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Dzuunmod
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I understand all of that, Heather. I'm just resentful of pornography that, one way or another, tries to put people in boxes - which is what gay porn does just as much as straight porn.

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You can twist his body 'til it faces backwards/Those plastic features/You could make somebody a pretty little wife/But don't let anybody tell you how to live your life.
-Elvis Costello, Tear Off Your Own Head (It's a Doll Revolution)


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pisces
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Well I don't really care much about porn myself, maybe if I saw something well done it would be different. I think that there is a big difference between the way most men and women think and they should realize that. Men tend to be more visual, but many women need a storyline to get turned on by something. And so they turn to erotic fiction, which they don't see as being the equivalent of their bf looking at visual porn. I think something done with emotion and beauty would probably work for me, and I think culture these days tries to make people ashamed of a naked body, even our own.
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Heather
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(Just an FYI: there is actually nothing to support the idea that men are more visual than women, and what we know of the markets indicate that indeed, that's fallacious. People's preferences in terms of material being visual or literal does not actually tend to be gender-based.)
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Confused boy
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I do believe some studies have suggested a general trend of a slight gender divide between the verbal and visual aspects of the brain. Men supposedly have a more developed visual cortex, while women often have superior verbal dexterity. It might go some way to explain why men tend to be better at chess than women, for example. These are all general trends to which there are, of course, plenty of exceptions.

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'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


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pisces
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yes, sorry. I tried to make it clear it was just my opinion based on my own experiences with people. If I didn't, I'll make sure to next time.
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shine
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I have no problem with pornography as long as it is between consenting adults.
I find some of it very distasteful, but I have no issue with its existance, and I find some of it very sexy and beautiful.

Pornography is art. Some of it is very explicit, but it is art nonetheless. People have been creating artwork of nude bodies for ages.


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Desperate Dan
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I am not in to porn myself, but I notice (througth research purposes only) that many of the women involved have clearly had massive amounts of silicon inserted into their breasts - some of the enhanced breasts look very strange.

I do not find these woman that attractive.

It is a wildly held view that men involved in porn tend to be generously endowed.

My question to girls who see porn films, is do you find these men attractive or unattractive?


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logic_grrl
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As with any question about what "girls" or "guys" do or don't find attractive, the answer is going to be:

Different people like different things .

Some women may care about penis size, just as some men may care about breast size. Most really don't care much. And of course a fair number of women aren't even going to be attracted to people with penises in the first place.

There are almost no cases where the size of someone's penis is going to be the determining factor in whether someone else sees them as attractive or not - most people care much more about the person attached to the penis.

Check this out (and consider reading the rest of the article as well, as it's very informative):

How Big Is It Supposed To Be?

It's also important to remember that commercial pornography is not a reliable source of information about anything. It's fantasy, not an educational service . And since most of it is aimed at a primarily male audience, it's certainly not a source of information about what women might or might not find attractive, even in fantasy.


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Desperate Dan
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From Logicgirl

quote:

As with any question about what "girls" or "guys" do or don't find attractive, the answer is going to be:
Different people like different things

Are users of this forum allowed to post their views to other users' post or do forum workers dictate their views?

the emphasise is on the:

quote:

the answer is going to be:

I personaly don't have issues with my anatomy, and I do know what typical penis size is since mine is typical and I see it every day.

[This message has been edited by Desperate Dan (edited 03-15-2003).]


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Heather
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Hey, Dan: one more snarky comment towards the volunteers, staff or other users here and you don't get to post any more views at all, capisce?

In a word: knock it off. This isn't the first time you've been asked, but it will be the last.

In case it escaped your attention, the users here have been expressing their views on the topic. For a prolific five pages, no less. They're all there for you to read, should you have interest.

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 03-15-2003).]


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