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Author Topic: Goth
Siouxsie
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this is a little bit random, but i have just had an argument with my parents over the stupidest thing. what people consider the word 'goth' to mean. when someone says to you they are a goth what do you think? what pictures does it bring to mind? personality? loooks? musical tastes? i was just wondering because people alwys jump to the wrong conclusions about 'goths'. i wanted to know what everyone else thought.
thanks

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Milke
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At its most generic meaning, 'Goth' is just someone who wears a lot of black, and often extreme black/white make up too. As far as attitude's concerned, it can range from the life-is-pain-suicide-is-the-answer type, to a sort of extreme romanticism, and there's a lot in between. Music would go with the attitude, I guess. One of my highschools had a lot of the first type of Goths, and it was rather irritating, though I know not everyone's like that. It was just the need to be taken so seriously that got to me, I guess. From your name, I'm guessing you're more the romantic, with a touch of glam-rock type, and that's quite okay.
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Celtic Daisy
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I have to agree with milke for the most part, however the "goths" in my school, are mostly very nice people, and aren't the tragic type.

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Pixie69
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Goth can mean as many different things for as many people who identify as being gothic. Of course, it's just another label, which is really unncessesary. Then of course you have gothic architecture, and gothic artwork, but I'm not too familiar with either so I can't really give a say in that.

As for personality wise, the easiest way it's been explained is that you see the dark things as well as the light, and you find beauty in them too. Maybe a flower is beautiful, but a dying flower can be too.

As someone who has been called 'goth' (haha, among other thigns that are not so nice) I don't really know why people call me that. I wear a lot of black, I like big boots, I like fishnets as undershirts and things like that. But...mostly it just makes me angry that people want to put *another* label on me.

Uhh...sorry, I'm getting off track.


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unhappykoger
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well i am considered goth so is my husband. it is pretty much just the style and look of your clothes. you can see our pictures on our website. http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/koger
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towel42
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Ah, labels, how I do hate thee.

See, the thing is, I really dislike putting people under little titles, because all it does is create divisions among people that would otherwise get along, as well as make sweeping generalizations about large groups of people, which often leads to misunderstandings.

I think the funniest site which points out all the cliches and how silly a lot of people sound when trying to fit into the perfecto-gotho mood is this:
http://sykospark.net/goth/

Its called the "Insta Goth Kit". They have an "Insta Punk Kit" "Insta Raver Kit", etc etc on that site. Its like, subculture hell, LoL.

Back before the "gothic" style had a name, people who wore a lot of black, heavy makeup, etc, were just referred to as "different", "alternative", maybe "avant garde". There was no one label...they just were. People are people. I always say, I'm not a label, I'm me, isn't that enough? I know I sound self-righteous, but there's really no other way I can phrase it.

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justagirl04
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I'm a Christian Goth... um, if that exists. I like to wear black alot... and I love to wear dark makeup! I get weird looks at school... I go all out with my makeup and stuff just a few days out of the week... sometimes I'm not in my dark mood. I like it b/c I feel like myself when I wear black. My parents won't accept the fact, though. I don't know how many times I've gotten the lecture on how I need to put some colors in my wardrobe!!! In my opinion, being gothic goes hand in hand with depression... in my case. I think Koger's pics were a wonderful example of a goth! They were awesome... some ppl are just so cool!!!

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-"Wherever You Will Go" by The Calling

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Only In Dreams
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quote:
Originally posted by towel42:
Ah, labels, how I do hate thee.

See, the thing is, I really dislike putting people under little titles, because all it does is create divisions among people that would otherwise get along, as well as make sweeping generalizations about large groups of people, which often leads to misunderstandings.

I think the funniest site which points out all the cliches and how silly a lot of people sound when trying to fit into the perfecto-gotho mood is this:
http://sykospark.net/goth/

Its called the "Insta Goth Kit". They have an "Insta Punk Kit" "Insta Raver Kit", etc etc on that site. Its like, subculture hell, LoL.

Back before the "gothic" style had a name, people who wore a lot of black, heavy makeup, etc, were just referred to as "different", "alternative", maybe "avant garde". There was no one label...they just were. People are people. I always say, I'm not a label, I'm me, isn't that enough? I know I sound self-righteous, but there's really no other way I can phrase it.


Towel42, that site is hilarious!

Anyway...last year there was a girl who sat behind me in PE (yep, we all had to sit in alphabetical rows while the PE teachers took roll) who some may consider a "goth". She looks like the stereotypical goth: she has black hair that she always puts in braids, black makeup, an almost all-black wardrobe, and lots of Marilyn Manson stuff. Although when you actually talk to her, she's just the opposite of what one would imagine a "goth" to be like: she's sweet, funny, and smart. I spent all last year talking to her. Now she's in my PE class again at High School, and we continue to talk about music (she loves Weezer), funny stories, how much we hate PE, and how dumb the PE teachers are. I should show her the InstaGoth thing-I'm sure she'll love it!

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Only in dreams..."
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Etch
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When i was in eigth grade (4 years ago) i only had one pair of pants (we didnt have much money at the time) and they were black jeans. So of course i had to wear them everyday. And i got labeled a witch and a goth. Whatever, i thought that was rather dumb. I wear a ton of black. It looks the best on me, and it goes with anything and everything.

I dont mind "gothic" people in general. But sometimes i find those goths who are annoying about it. They always talk about how they hate preppies and people who fallow the crowd and blah blah blah. But you know what? They are doing ECACTLY what they hate. They are judging other based on the outside. And they are fallowing the "gothic" dress code and attitude code. Some wannabe punks are the same way.

I have a mix between the punk and goth attitude sometimes. I also wear a lot of the clothes. But you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could label my today. I mean, sometimes i wear all black with heavy makeup. Sometimes i wear chains ripped up clothes and my patch jacket. Then, i might wear my preppyish clothes.

I dont think people should TRY to fit into any label or stereotype. Last time i tried that it totally screwed up my self esteem for a looong time.


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BruinDan
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quote:
Originally posted by Etch:

They are doing ECACTLY what they hate. They are judging other based on the outside.....I dont think people should TRY to fit into any label or stereotype.

I think that is a very valid point, Etch. High school especially is a time when everyone is trying to find their little niche, to find little places where they belong. But all too often, people can go overboard and start detesting people who aren't like them. We've heard the Columbine horror stories about how "jocks" judged the two killers based upon their appearance...and while that had extreme consequences, there is a flipside as well. Even as some people claim to reject group mentality, they are implicitly aligning themselves in a group anyway. Like your point about some goths or punks, who claim to stand against the "follow the crows" mentality and then end up following a crowd of their own.

The best thing one can do is quit worrying about what little box one fits in, and start appreciating people for what they are beneath the clothes. It sounds corny, yes, but it is very true...until people stop judging others based upon silly and arbitrary things like what people wear or who they hang out with, people will continue to feel hurt and left out.

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Siouxsie
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ah, thanks guys. just wanted to say, pey hate = labels. people always ask me what i am, and i'm like "what, i'm me, hi!". but they don't get that. i just say i am "goth" for the easy way put, sometimes glitter is the only way to go and who said that dressing up like a rainbow fairy was a bad thing, huh? people who are oh-so-goth piss me off in a big way. they are usually little people who have no idea and so they have to hate everything in crop socks or whatever coz they are 'trendies'. yuk! bauhaus rule, siouxsie is a goddess. i just love the people (they are so funny and happy!) and i love the music, coz it's just so me! i am everything but mostly i am just me!

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One owes respect to the living. To the dead one owes only truth ~ the Crow


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bob18
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What is a GOTH???
Well being a 'Goth' I can answer in my eyes!
To be a True Goth...
1) You dont HAVE to wear BLACK
2) You dont have to want to die (although I do)
3) You dont have to do, like or DO anything in particular!

True Goth is Not an Icon or a Stereotype!
It is a type of person who goes against
"Stereotypes" and "Cool" because of social activities they have for some reason decided that they dont want to be anything
"special" or the center of attention!
So to do this we dress in what ever they want (Black, blue, purple, yellow, etc.), they do what we want (Satanism, Ocuult, Reading, etc.) and the avoid being prejudice towards ANYONE - even those are prejudice towards them!
Like me we usualy become 'Goth' without realising it! A True Goth is who they want to be!

However recently people have been following Goth guidelines for fashion and to be noticed! THESE ARE NOT GOTHS BUT PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE COOL!!!
And these people annoy my kind!

Basically Siouxsie you ARE TRUE GOTH!

[This message has been edited by bob18 (edited 04-19-2002).]


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jewishpunk
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I think of goth as a way of dress and artwork. A lot of people I know always assume
that when you are goth you are depressed, enjoy rock music, are involved in witchraft and that you are Saitanist. I sometimes dress goth and the only thing that applies to me in the list is that I enjoy rock music. For one, I am Jewish and I normally wear punk related clothing. I hate that people assume things so much and stereotype you if you are different of unique.

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Lilfran14
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I belive that a Goth is a person who dresses in all black and loads on the white and black make-up, but then again i raelly dont wanna label anyone either. At my school in tonawanda, new york there are more goth then there are preps. The goths want to kill us and the preps make fun of the goths. Its acaully kinda scary the way they treat us, and the looks on there faces, but i bet there saying the same thing about the preps. The goths and freaks are always the ones who cause the trouble, there always the ones who cauise the police to come to our school to make sure no one has guns or knives cuz they threaten to blow up the school, its sick and pathetic.

its a hard concept to understand and i dont get it.

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Why is it that in the
land of the free, home
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that i still feel like a
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Life is too short..Live it well and with the people you care about.. Don't ever let your work become your life... Go out there and live a little before its too late** Dr. Greene ER


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Celtic Daisy
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I don't know anyone gothic like that. People like that freak me out. I found this really neat little site that said the different kind of goths but right now it's being renovated so i can't post the types. It was neat. I'd classify myself as romantic gothic/hippie, but i don't necessarily look it. The way i see it something like being gothic has more to do with your mindset then your looks.

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UnDetermined
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I think "goth" is more or less a personality. It is not how a person looks, or how a person dresses, because there are alot of people that wear black, but are definitley NOT goth. The attitude of a goth is not known, but it varies in the type of person. People who know goths or are goths know what I'm talking about. I personally am a little goth. And what I mean by a little goth goes along with attitude and looks. Take into consideration that. Talk soon! Bye!

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Anna A.K.A UnDetermined


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wow
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Etch
maybe u should wait before u start bashing goths, considering u just passed a judgement on all goths by saying they do what they hate, but at least they do stay true to wearing the black clothes, unlike the routine of wearing black clothes one day then preppy clothes one day, like posers

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Milke
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Ya know wow, wearing black means that . . .you're wearing black. If you're being 'goth' as a fashion statement, that's fine, if you're doing it as what you consider a lifestyle, that's fine too, but the clothes you wear don't dictate who you are inside (quite the opposite of what The Smiths said). Having more than just one colour in their wardrobes doesn't make anyone a 'poser'; there's a whole spectrum of colours out there, and there's no harm in enjoying them. And please, don't accuse people of doing something you've just done yourself, it really doesn't go far to support your point.

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wow
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ok, well that means [shizzledizzlebangbang] to me, i bet i could guess your style, hhhhmmm, american eagle right, i knew it, nice try trying to sound like you know what u r talking about when u have probably no idea what the gothic thoughts and attitude is, listen just because i dont like techno doesnt mean u have to get offensive.


[Language, my friend, language...]

[This message has been edited by BruinDan (edited 04-04-2003).]


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wow
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and bob is truely wrong, i suppose his "people" are the ones that listen to default and thinks its rock, now we have wannabe goths that claim they stand for "themselves", UR NOT GOTH BOB.

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Milke
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Uh, wow? Are you trying to be offensive? I'm asking you to chill it with the harsh judgements; the next stage, should you keep this up, is to lose all posting priveleges here. I'm not really sure what you're making reference to here, but please stop trying to base how you see people on what they're wearing, or what you assume they're wearing. There's something ironic about judging someone by appearances when you haven't ever seen them.

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Milke, with an L, SSBD, RATS, TMNTP

Sink, swim, go down with the ship, but use your freedom of choice!


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Milke
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And just FYI, guys, Merriam-Webster defines a true Goth as:

quote:
: a member of a Germanic people that overran the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Christian era

Please prove that you can fit that description before you go slagging other people for how they define themselves. I mean it.

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Milke, with an L, SSBD, RATS, TMNTP

Sink, swim, go down with the ship, but use your freedom of choice!


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Bobolink
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Visigoth, Ostrogoth or Vandal?

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We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

- Albert Einstein

[This message has been edited by Bobolink (edited 04-04-2003).]


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BruinDan
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quote:
Originally posted by Bobolink:
Visigoth, Ostrogoth or Vandal?


I always thought the Vandals were pretty cool folks. I mean, for you to wreck things so badly that people a thousand years later still refer to destruction of property as "vandalism," is just too darned cool.

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Alocv
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The general consesus here is: If you do your own thing, hate and mock certian types, and wear lots of black clothing your a goth?

So by your defintion, say, Chris Rock is a goth? :P

IMO a goth generally has to do one thing: Say "I'm a goth." This usually entails not just the clothing, but the pale faced make-up, various occult things, etc. I hate when random people that simply don't try to follow trends are called goth; Goth is short for "Gothic" and NOT following trends is gothic HOW? IMO, this takes me on a little rant - people who declare themselves Goth then say they are "not following the trend" are simply following another trend; your following a different leader, but your still following a leader.

I agree on hating labels. The other one I hate is "Straight Edgers" which are the new fad - no drinking, no sex, no drugs. If you even do two out of the three, people will declare you straight edge; the whole reason this group exsists is people are so self-concious of their decisions, they have to "belong" to a group that makes them sound cooler. This is just another side of the coin of the term that is goth.

Don't worry though, folks, once your out of high school the titles go away - noone really cares then.

PS: This is mostly from 3rd party experience. Noone knows WHAT the hell I am, and I've had people try to guess 4-5 sub-groups in a single conversation just because nothing quite meshes. One of the few fortune people that seems to have avoided being profiled. :P


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losermoni
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ok i really don't understand. what some of you people are trying to say is that if i wear black, want to die, draw "dark" things then i'm gothic? That just doesn't make any sense to me.
i hate when people label themselves, i don't care if other people label me [fiddlestick] other people. they ask me what i am. i answer i'm human. that's the only answer that really makes sense. People try to call me a punk/goth poser, and it boggles my mind. I don't want to be punk, i don't want to be prep, i don't want to be gothic. I want to just be me. So i am and i get called a poser, because i wear what makes me look good. I just like to look good, wear clothes that fit me right. Just because i write poems, listen to punk bands, and want to die, i'm still monique not punk or goth MONIQUE.

[This message has been edited by BruinDan (edited 04-24-2003).]


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BruinDan
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Good answer, friend. In the future though, please refrain from using foul language. I like the word as much as you do, and probably use it just as often...but we need to be on our best behavior here. Sound good?

You certainly have the right to dress however you like to dress, but it might be worthwhile to put less stock in what other people may say. You basically said "to hell with what people thing," in one line of your post while the rest of the post said quite the opposite. Saying something like that is all well and good, but making sure they don't get to you is far more difficult.

And perhaps that would be made easier if you were to realize that folks are going to label you no matter what you do. You come to school wearing a white shirt on Monday, you're a prep. You come to school in a cheer outfit on Tuesday, you're a woman of loose morals. You come to school wearing black on Wednesday, you're a goth. You come to school wearing torn jeans on Thursday, you're a hesher. You come to school in a monkey suit on Friday, you're in the psych ward for 72 hours.

Get my convoluted point, darlin'? Though what you wear may have an effect on how people perceive you, there is nothing you can do to change the perception in general. You'll be labelled just like your parents and their parents were back in their day, and it's all in how you handle it. By shrugging them off and enjoying clothes that fit you right and make you look good, you're already thumbing your nose at perception. So there you have it.

(But for the love of cheese, don't be talkin' about dying. Even if life has it's unappealing moments, I have it on good authority that death is even less amusing)

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BruinDan, "Number Three," PBOM

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erinlouisemeg
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Everyone seems to have an opinion, but has anybody bothered to look up the meaning of the word "goth" or "gothic"?

Goth;
1. the original term "goth" was an ancient tribe of particularly brutal vikings. they were of eastern germanic routes and wore black as they invaded countries at night.

Gothic;
1. the language of the ancient Eastern Germanic Goths.
2. relating to architecture. (ie; arches, cathedrals..)
3. to a style of fiction that emphasizes the grotesque, mysterious, and desolate.

Depends what your opinion of labels are. To me, being "gothic" can mean any of these things:
from being morbid/sadistic; pagan/wiccan; pentagram wearing spell binding over-the-top-drama goths; music goths - goth rock/death metal/black metal; make-upgoths; old-fashioned goths who wear corsets and old fashioned skirts; gother-than-thou goths; wannabe goths who just try too hard; nu-age goths who wear the latest black fashion peice and dr. marten boots, white make-up and heavy black eyeliner.

So basically theres the religious side of the term... The architectural side, the fashion side, the musical side, the romantic side, the lifestyle.. so many possibilities.

I myself get labelled a "goth" at my school. My name is Erin-Louise [Whoops, sorry, you can't be postin' your full name here], I have very pale skin, dark hair and pale eyes. I wear alot of black because i find it a slimming colour and i wear black dr. martins acoz i find them comfortable and stylish. I wear a small St. John's Celtic cross and small silver charm bracelet. I wear a rainbow beaded bracelet and coloured earrings, coloured badges and buttons on my school shirts and i have a bright purple fluffy bag.

Look at me go. I'm such a goth. Oh yes. Watch me being all Goth. =/ By the way, I listen to punk rock.. so i dunno what they're going on about. Anycrap, im going to shut up now. baii!

<3 Erin-Louise

[This message has been edited by BruinDan (edited 04-29-2003).]


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metalhead606
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posers!
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BruinDan
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You will either knock that stuff off, or you will have your posting privileges revoked. Are we clear?

------------------
BruinDan, "Number Three," FHOM

Beware the naked man who offereth you his pants.


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