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Author Topic: Needing Advice..
**Gitana**
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Hey, today is the 10th of April 2010, and I am 27 years old.
On the 11th of January 2000 I had sex with a guy who had up untill that night been my very best friend for 4 years prior to that...
I dont know if it was rape. All I know is that I am still traumatised by the experience, and no matter what I do, no matter how many clocks, or calenders I see, I still feel as though it happened last night, and I am so afraid that i will NEVER move on!!!!
a few days before that night I had kissed my best friend. We had joked about how we should sleep together for months prior to this. But on the night him and his cousin took me to the pier, on the beach. it was really quiet and no one else was around, and it was almost like his cousin was watching out for others..
We kissed for a while.. and he reminded me of what he had joked about doing in the past..
I then pushed him away and said I had changed my mind.. He then pushed me up against a wire fence, and kissed me again, and put his hand down my knickers, and fingered me. (BTW: FYI: I had not been drinking or smoking anything...)
He then took me by the hand, picked me up, and put me on my back on some rocks closer to the water, behind the wire fence, where no one could see.. He put my legs on his shoulders and lifted up my skirt pretty fast and came inside me.. He was moving it up and down for what felt like years and while he was doing that I was crying the whole time.. But he said nothing. I said nothing either though! But it would have been obvious that i was crying the whole way through.. anyway when he was done, he got up off the rocks back onto the pier, I got back onto the pier also. Then his cousin came back. They told me not to tell anyone what had happened.. Then they both ran off, as fast as lightning, and I collapsed on the ground and cried..
7 weeks later I had a miscarriage.
I had not spoken to him since that night, but one week after the miscarriage I told his cousin about hit, and then he grabbed the phone and yelled at me, and told me off for telling his cousin about it before him..
I did not tell anyone at all, untill 2 years later..
Have been on anti-depressants since then...
Continue to regularly dream about him..
Am confused and feel ashamed when involuntarily have positive memories about all the times when he would protect and stick up for me at high school, how we used to walk to and from school together, how he would tell others off if they werent nice to me and on and on and on...
I know people can be fake, but for FOUR YEARS?!?!?!?
I used to talk to him ALL THE TIME about how in love with his best friend I was and it used to piss him off..
I have seen councelor after councelor after councelor after councelor since then, and they either seem to traumatise me MORE by confusing me and not giving me straight answers, OR the one time I found a really lovely lady after 9 months she ended up retiring , and ended up only telling me ON THE DAY cos she was so scared of uupsetting me... it is SO DRAINING starting with new councelors, having to explain EVERYTHING from the very begining and having to answer the same questions over and over again WITHOUT getting any new or significant answers...
I am just so drained, so tired of wandering WHY, HOW, and what kind of person did I spend SO MUCH time with for so many years, and will I ever, ever, ever stop wandering?????????????????? [Frown]
I know its not the end of the world but I have never really had a proper relationship, and even though I still have time I am 27 and dont wanna be alone forever but I feel like I just cant take any male seriously. I feel like "whatever it was" was actually in some ways not as bad as the loss and grief I felt from losing a friendship, from his change in behaviour, that I had come to become incredibly reliant on, having also not had a father/brother/close uncles etc etc etc male figured around me growing up.... I was the only male I had ever trusted up untill that point, and I feel like Im not going to be able to trust again UNTILL I know WHY his behaviour changed.... in 2002 I (two years later) I saw his friend at a club and asked for his number, (which is why Ive always said he took advantage of me, because why would someone who has been raped wanna call them?!?!?!?!?!?!?), I called him the next day wanting to ask the endless question of "why", he heard my voice and pretended not to know who I was, after me saying a few things about where we knew each other from, even though he was obviously pretending, he admitted he knew me and then I went straight on to ask him about the baby, and why he treated me the way he had, anyway blah blah blah , he ended up hanging up then 3 months later I saw him (by accident) at the Casino Complex, I was walking past the machines to a theatre restaurant, and he was sitting on a machine, next to a girl, he stared at me, I stared at him, but it was almost as if we were in a movie, and it didnt click in my head that I had seen him untill after taking like 10 steps further, but by that stage I was in shock, called a friend, cried, then went back to talk to him to ask him why again, but he had obviously ran off by the time I got there...
I thought Id post something, because "Googled" about why someone would have recurring dreams about a rapist, just because Ive been dreaming about him nearly every night the past 4 months and it makes me almost afraid to go to sleep... then I came across this site and noticed a post by another girl, asking if she had actually gone through a "rape" or not....
Im more interetsed in ways I can move one with my life, mentally and emotionally and spiritually and every othe rway possible, than WHAT title people actually wanna give an experience............
If you have ANY advice, Id LOVE to hear it....

Posts: 11 | From: Melbourne, Australia.. | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
atm1
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Gitana, I'm so sorry that that happened to you.

What you've described absolutely is rape. You made it very clear that you did not want to have sex, and then he forced you to anyways. It was clearly planned by him and his cousin--this wasn't some random thing that a good man did, this was a premeditated, thought out crime. And he *knew* he was committing a crime. Why else would he act that way?

Have any of the counselors you've seen specialized in treating sexual assault survivors? If not, you may want to try calling a local rape crisis center to get the names of a few therapist who work with survivors. A therapist with that experience should be much more helpful.

(And, as an aside, it was irresponsible of that counselor to not give you more advance notice of her retirement. She should have helped you get set up with another therapist and prepared a transition plan, not just dropped you like that).

Would you like help finding a local rape crisis center?

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**Gitana**
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Thanks for your reply..
I wasn't sure if this site was only for teenagers or not, but seeings as it happened when I was a teenager i thought it might be okay.

The only place I know of in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, (which is where I live), that specializes is www.casa.org.au/
I have been 3 or 4 times in the past, however they ONLY offer upto 12 thirty minute sessions with someone who specializes in these issues, and then you cant go anymore....
I know myself. And I know that would not be enough. Each session goes in the blink of an eye and that is just not long enough to sort out life long issues. And the thought of doing them and then being left again, is not appealing because of how draining I find it mentally and emotionally... I wouldnt mind being drained if it actually got me somewhere, but I feel like Id be exhausted for nothing, because 12 thirty minute sessions would not be enough...


Also... I understand what you mean. But I never actually verbally said no. And sometimes I wander whether I just feel like this because it was my "first time"? Is there something wrong with me for feeling like this? AND is there something wrong with me for seeing something, or hearing something and then being reminded of something GOOD and NICE that he had done for me BEFORE that night??? because that happens to me ALL THE TIME and when it does I feel like there must be either something wrong with me for remembering something "good" he did, OR that there is something wrong with me for feeling like anything wrong actually ever happened to me!! I mean, seriously, how can someone be someone they're not for over 4 YEARS?!??!?!?!?!??! :S Is it just me? Or have I been thinking about it for such a long time that I dont even understand myself anymore?
I have so many questions, and feel like they are never going to be answered....

The other thing that upset me was that I ended up telling his best friend what happened, the one I had feelings for, and he was not surprized, however then went on to say that we could not be together because I had been with him, as if I was now used and dirty or something EVEN though he believed that I did not want to be like that.... maybe the baby part of it freaked him out too much, but either way I feel like from that one experience I lost a "friend", a "baby", a "boyfriend", my "virgininty", and all my "trust"........................
some days are just really shitty, hey?

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**Gitana**
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*I want to find him and ask him why he changed to his face...?

*How do you know he **knew** he had done something wrong?
...because he went from calling me everyday to not at all?

*Ive been reading about the Australian legal system, and what they constitute as "rape" and apparently, according to my research, it was not, because I had talked to him about having sex previously and I did not verbally show I did not want it...??? (this obviously put me off reporting anything, plus I was dealing with the miscarriage at the same time)

*I found it interesting however that I noticed this website answered another girl with similar questions, that just because a girl gives "consent" on one day, apparently that does not mean that she HAS to on another given day??????????????????? but is that the way the law sees it? because I did not push him off me when I was lying on the rocks, behind the pier!!!???!!!??? I just layed there crying...


*I had a dream about him last week that is REALLY upsetting me! [Frown]
In it, I find him, ask him why, he says he was confused about the baby, then we had sex but this time I wanted to, and then we spent the day together... I guess this could be the memory of how JUST before this happened I think I was begining to develop feelings for him, so do you think maybe this dream is how I might have wanted it to turn out like, before that night???? This leads me to my NUMBER ONE question, that disturbs me DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY...............................

IS IT POSSIBLE, HEALTHY, NORMAL, OK, ETC. ETC. ETC. TO MISS THE "GOOD" PARTS OF WHEN I KNEW HIM BEFORE THAT HAPPENED>>>>>>>>>>WHILE REMEMBERING AT THE SAME TIME THE BAD BEHAVIOUR, AND WAY HE TREATED ME???????????????????????????????????

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Heather
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Gitana: it's very typical, during a rape, for a victim to be stunned silent, especially in a situation like this where in the moment, your brain is trying to both process being raped and being deeply betrayed. Not having said no isn't what indicates if someone was raped or not.

But you DID say no. You said you changed your mind. That's no. Then he raped you, knowing you changed your mind, seeing that you were crying.

I earnestly doubt your feelings were about this being "your first time," in part because this wasn't first time sex. This was a rape, and I don't know why AU law would not recognize it as one, but that's certainly something you can ask the people at the rape crisis center. I know it's less therapy than you want, but I think it might be wise to go back for this question, and for what other therapy they can offer you. They likely can also suggest therapists outside the center who do work with rape trauma for you.

Wanting to face your abuser and get some answers is also common. It's not for everyone, but if it's something you think would help you, it's something you can consider. I'd not advise ever meeting up with someone who abused/attacked a person without someone else with you, and it may be that what your rapist says is truth or lies and excuses (something you'd obviously want to try and emotionally prepare yourself for), but it's certainly a possible option.

I'm just waking up, but I'd be glad to come back when I'm a bit more alert and talk with you about the betrayal aspect, about the change in your friend's behaviour. But of course it's normal and understandable to miss the person you felt you knew before this and to miss your friendship.

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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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**Gitana**
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Thanks...for your reply...
Just curious; have you had the time to read all three of my posts?
This is a very helpful site, and I hope one day it gets Government support so that the volunteers can get paid...
A friend of mine thinks that facing him would be counter-productive, assuming he probably wouldn't give any substantial answers, and would just make the memory of him all the more "fresh"..
But I just consider doing it because nothing else has seemed to help me let it all go...
In Australian Law it says that if there was no verbal disagreement DURING the intercourse, then they dont consider it... Im studying Criminology at University at the moment and have learned that the U.S. legal system is a lot kinder to victums of sexual assault of all kinds, than we are......
the crisis center could refer me to another one after those sessions are done, I guess I just havent gone to them because the idea of knowing from the begining that you'll have to repeat EVERYTHING all over again is exhausting.. but I guess its better than nothing... and my mum and I are close, but she went through sexual abuse from her brothers as a child and has not yet dealt with her own issues with the past, so I feel like she can't be much help, her method is to simply say to me to just get over it, and doesnt understand why I havent because she *supposedly* got over her issues so quickly!!
(which is half why I took 2 years to tell her, I think i knew how she'd be, she would have wanted to kill him, cos she knew him, but then after a while would have got sick of talking about it)
and i feel like the few friends that know, that also knew him, maybe dont believe me, because I spent so much time together, OR if they do believe me, too dont understand why I havent gotten over it yet, seeings as it has now been 10 years!! However, I didnt really think about it till 2 years later... I just began to smoke marijuana a lot, so I didnt have to think about anything, and it was only when I stopped doing that, that I began to think about it, and although I dont use any drugs at all now, its like I either smoke drugs everyday OR I think about it everyday!! Personally, I dont want to have to do either!! I have been working with young kids of abusers and have 9 foster kids whose parents abuse them in the projects, however a big part of me feels that I will never be able to help anyone else anywhere near as much as Id like to untill I am healed myself... Honestly, untill I met these kids, I had no motivation to find help, because I had given up a long time ago, when it comes to helping myself... but if helping myself will make me more able to help these kids then I want to get there... and any advice you have would be greatly appreciated...

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Heather
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I have read them all, Gitana, there's just a lot to respond to, so trying to pace myself.

I thin when it comes to facing him, that's a call you need to make for yourself, and not something friends can make for you. I would check in with a counselor to see if they thin it's something that you'll be able to handle right now, especially if what he says does wind up being excuses and denials -- which would obviously be exceptionally painful -- but other than that, I think this needs to be your call.

I'm sorry to hear that about Australia: I've heard bad things before regarding AU and their treatment of rape victims. [Frown]

In terms of your friends not believing you, unfortunately, a lot of people really don't understand how it goes for a rape victim who knew her rapist well. You having spent time with someone before they raped you -- and in some cases, even after -- doesn't mean you weren't raped. It means you were raped by someone you were close to, who you didn't know was going to rape you. I think a lot of what fuels the ignorance around this is simply denial: perhaps obviously, few people want to face the reality that rape happens more often with people known to us than with strangers, and even people we trust can turn out to betray us this way. I don't need to tell you what a hard truth that is to hold.

Same goes for people not getting how rape can impact people: I don't think it's sound to expect someone to be totally over any kind of assault or abuse ten years later, especially if a person hasn't gotten sound help and support. I was assaulted two times over a year over 25 years ago, and while I have had good help and support, and done a lot of processing, and I think I've come a very long way in my healing process, I still absolutely have my moments. And I wasn't close to the people who assaulted me, either. In my experience, a situation like yours takes longer to heal from.

I think a whole lot of us do some of our healing by helping other people, and it's great that you do that. [Smile]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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By the way, Gitana, there's a good interview up with my friend Nancy today, who did confront her rapist.

I think it might be of value to you: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2010/04/13/nancy-schwartzman-on-confronting-your-rapist/

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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**Gitana**
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Thanks for your kind and helpful words....

Im obviously just after some understand and reassurance, for more confidence to get more help...

I actually JUST found out at a lecture at my University that there has been significant changes through Law Reforms in Australia, one in 1997 and another in 2006, which deal with how "consent" is defined and puts the responsibility on the man to use tha "communicative model" of finding out, which you have probably heard of... sounds better than how it was before, but obviously society will take time to catch up....

Its comforting than the time Im taking to move on is not unrealistic... My mum (frustrated) said to me when am I ever going to let go of things, move on and fully start living????? Obviously I want to, but if anyone who knows me is frustrated seeing my life, than I am 10 times more frustrated and sick of going in circles year after year after year..... Hopefully one day I will feel free & peaceful....

Specifically though, if and whenever you have the time, I would be ever so grateful to know what your thoughts are about the grief and loss and betrayal aspects that you didnt have time to say much about earlier on...........this is mostly what keeps me up and night, what provokes me to tears in the middle of the day involuntarily, and why I think I am still single......

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Heather
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You know, this might be perspective that's a lot harder to see in hindsight, but I'm of the mind that our healing processes ARE part of us living life. For sure, they're one of the hardest parts, and there are often lots of stops and starts, and sometimes a lot of circling. But speaking for myself and how I hear a lot of other survivors with that hindsight, it's a part of our life that tends to have a lot to do with our character, with our strength, with our sensitivity.

While if I'd had a choice, I certainly would have preferred not to be assaulted and abused in my life, at the same time, I know that my own process of healing from it has a lot to do with the person I became, and I would NOT trade those parts in, even the darkest hours of all that, which were really, really bleak and scary.

I mean, in your case, look at the work your own process has resulted in you doing: that's incredibly valuable work, so important to who you help, so important for the world. It's also obviously very valuable and important to you. That's not you avoiding life, you know?

I'm sorry that your Mom has taken the approach she has, but some of why might be that when she talks about what she wants for you and you not living is because she's actually talking about herself. Like you say, she says she's worked through her own abuse, but it seems to you that she really hasn't. Do you know what I mean?

In terms of the feeling of betrayal, any kind of an abuse is a betrayal already: when any person harms another person, we're betrayed: our basic sense and feeling of humanity is betrayed. But when it happens within a personal relationship with someone you care for and have trust in, and thought cared for you, finding out they did not care -- because we have to face, however hard it is, that when someone does us intentional harm, they either don't or can't care -- is another betrayal on top of that. Plus, you had a loss: you lost your friend, and you likely also lost a lot of faith and hope.

Again, you might not be at this yet, but what that doesn't mean is that you can't trust anybody. It can be so easy to go to the place where because this person you cared about and had a relationship did this, that means anybody will. But that doesn't mean that. It might, at most, mean anyone COULD, which is hard enough to deal with, but just kind of the facts of life, but it still doesn't mean anyone will. Most people will NOT and do not do this to you or others.

[ 04-15-2010, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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**Gitana**
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Thank You for your message...
Apologies for such a delayed response, but I have been in hospital, having had my 5th operation in the past 18 months for severe endometriosis...

At the age of 10 yrs. I wrote down everything I wanted to achieve by the time I was 18...in the field of Performing Arts and Broadway etc.

Since all this, no matter how much "good" I do for others to take my mind off my own pain, all I go to sleep crying about, and all I wake up crying about, is the fact that I did not do what I said I was going to do, and I am so afraid that I am never going to move on from that...

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**Gitana**
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I just read Nancy's interview...
what I got out of it mostly was that the other person has to be a willing party in the confrontation and you have to be clear on what you want to get out of it...
Im clear about what I want out of it, but I doubt very much that he would be a willing party in a confrontation, because like I said in my first message, one time I did see him in 2004 and he just froze for a minute and then disappeared after I had walked away....
Nancy said it can be re-traumatizing if theyre a manipulative person. Im assuming he is. Seeings as he lead me to believe that he was someone he was not for so many years. So do you think that confronting him would be a bad idea then??

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Heather
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It sounds like in this situation, the risk of this NOT benefitting or helping you is higher than the risk of it being something that benefits you.

So, I think it's just an issue of figuring out how okay you are with that in choosing to try or not.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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**Gitana**
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Thank You for your message...
Apologies for such a delayed response, but I have been in hospital, having had my 5th operation in the past 18 months for severe endometriosis...

Just wandering if you read this post of mine?

At the age of 10 yrs. I wrote down everything I wanted to achieve by the time I was 18...in the field of Performing Arts and Broadway etc.

Since all this, no matter how much "good" I do for others to take my mind off my own pain, all I go to sleep crying about, and all I wake up crying about, is the fact that I did not do what I said I was going to do, and I am so afraid that I am never going to move on from that...

Do you think then that it sounds like a bad idea to try and find him??

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Heather
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Like I said, I think this is something you're just going to have to weigh for yourself, ultimately. I can't know what you feel able to handle and don't, particularly if it goes poorly or you don't get what you need from it.

But it does sound like regardless of what you choose, you really could use some more counseling help. Can you seek that out? Per the dreams you're worried you won't achieve, are you also doing some work towards those?

I hope you're feeling okay after your operation.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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**Gitana**
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Sorry i meant more this bit....


At the age of 10 yrs. I wrote down everything I wanted to achieve by the time I was 18...in the field of Performing Arts and Broadway etc.

Since all this, no matter how much "good" I do for others to take my mind off my own pain, all I go to sleep crying about, and all I wake up crying about, is the fact that I did not do what I said I was going to do, and I am so afraid that I am never going to move on from that...

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Heather
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That's why I mentioned counseling. Do you need help finding some?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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