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chickenfeet
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when i was 6 yrs old, i had my first best friend.

our relationship started to get deep. we began imitating sexual scenes we had seen on television with each other. i told her i didnt want to but she said that if i didnt then she wouldnt be my best friend anymore. i didnt know what to do so i just continued doing what she wanted to do even though i hated it. i think i told her mom or my mom but they didnt believe me.

she moved and then one day came back to visit and i was the one to pursue her sexually. we had sex a couple times that night and my sister walked in.

besides this sexual encounter, my dad was doing stuff too. he would grab me onto his lap and try to kiss me. the more i squeled and tried to get away the harder he hung onto me. my mom was always in the next room and ignored my calls for help.

he would do random things like stick his hand down my butt rele fast then take it out or stick his hand up da front and back of my shirt. it all started when i was 7.

he called me sexy a lot but i dont know if i can blame him because hes not from here and learned english from watching tv.

when i was 12 i started to feel a lot of hormones. one day i went to go sit on my dads lap while he was lieing down. before i knew it i was rubbing up and down on his shaft and we kissed. he stopped me though.

i felt so ashamed and i have no idea why i did what i did. it isnt even like me.

and now whenever i kiss people my age.. i return back to the past.. with my dad shoving his tongue down my throat.

i told my friends about what happened to me and i always blamed everyone else for what they did to me.

am i a sexual predator? y do i always need to puruse people that have hurt me? what do you think might have happened to me to make me feel this way? he did the same things to my sisters... so why arent they the way i am? i dont know what to do. im too ashamed to tell people that i wanted that stuff to happen. i cant even tell my therapist... i dont even know.

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Heather
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Sounds to me like since you already had sexual abuse in your family in your childhood, you unfortunately didn't have any understanding of limits and boundaries for yourself. Childhood sexual abuse often has that effect, especially with partners, because parents are supposed to not only respect our boundaries, but are some of our biggest teachers when it comes to learning about them.

If the paeople we trust most in our earliest years teach us not to have them, and abuse us, it can be tremendously difficult to know what our boundaries are, know THAT they are, and to know how to assrt them. And to ask a child to assert boundaries with a parent is asking an awful lot.

None of this makes YOU predatory. It makes your father a predator (and if he had abused you beforte, when you started to initiate sex, he likely only stopped you because it took away his being in control, which is key for abusers). per your childhood friend, that's a tough one to address, because early childhood sexual play is rarely predatory, since few young children understand what sex even is, nor what sexual boundaries are.

If you have a therapist, I would suggest you open up about this. I think you'll likely feel a lot better in doing so, and then you can have some real help in understanding what happened to you, and help in managing those feelings and the effects of what happened.

You might also want to step back with any dating or sex now until you can get at least some handle on this. Sounds like even kissing is triggering for you, and until you can learn to manage your triggers so that intimacy with people is something that feels good -- including emotionally -- it's likely more of a hurt than a help for you right now.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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chickenfeet
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You know the thing that happened with my dad? it happened when i was 12.. immediately after what happened, i felt really dirty.. like i couldnt scrub off the feeling no matter how rough i tried to wash it off my body. i read about this feeling a lot in books but i never knew what it really meant until then. but i was able to go to school and talk to my friends like nothing ever happened.

i basically told all my friends that my dad physically abused me a lot.

i mean he did. like he would slap me randomly in da face if i opened my eyes wide at him. n he would always smak my head if i said something mean. at times i felt as if i was actually flying when he would push me away. sometimes he would throw heavy objects at me.. like those heavy weight things people use. and textbooks. hed get mad easily.. i guess cuz he used to get into a lot of fites with my mom.

i remember a lot of times when my mom abused my dad too. she would get really mad at him and follow him around the room with a kitchen knife. i remember one time i was really little and i dont know what i did but my dad started charging at me but my mom stuck me in her room and made me lock the door while she was outside trying to stop my dad. i remember this cuz i was rele scared n heard a lot of yelling.

all my life ive been beaten up and so has my sisters. my dad even punched by grandma in the nose 'by accident' when my gma tried to stop my dad from striking my mom.

but ive always been able to keep a happy face and feel happy. i was always having the best times when i was with my friends, i could forget the world. But I stopped telling my friends the details about my life after one friend asked me if I was just asking for pity. I really wasn’t so that’s why I decided to stop talking about my dad…until things got worse.

last yr was the first time i told anyone about my dad abusing me sexually. but ever since i told the police what happened.. things just went downhill. my dad was taken away and my sister started to scare me on purpose. she hated me for wut i did and i have no idea y. i mean i kno for a fact he used to do the same things to her..but all my life my mom would make excuses saying that my dad was just joking.. and thats wut my sister started saying too. do u think she got brainwashed or something?

but anyway.. she started to like provoke me into hitting her but i never did.. unless she literally laid a hand on me first. she would drivel spit from her mouth like an inch away from my face then suck it back in. she would scream/sing at the top of her lungs while i was watchin tv. and idk she was talking to the police on da fone and pretended to be me.. which really pissed me off.

i called the cops on her when she hit me cuz i got mad. the cops came and my mom told them how my dad hits us but its only to punish us. they said that its totally okay to hit people.. even to the point of bruises. and idk i felt like everyone was against me. except my friends.

a month after everything happened my mom shipped me n my sister to a new home. i guess i tried to fit in by being really friendly but it went overboard.

i ran away from my mom for 30 minutes just to get a breather and she called the cops on me.. while i was walking back home. the cops put me in the "B" hospital where i stayed for a week.. crying and being made fun of.. no one told me it was only going to be a week. i couldnt even call my friends. and if i called my mom she would just make me cry more by tellin me it was all my fault.

i came home and stayed in bed for two days. then i went back to school. the first day i was there the school decided to send me back to the hospital, this time the "K" hospital. that was when i was labeled bipolar.

i went back home after a week but then i asked my mom to take me back because i told her i was scared because there were 'bad people' in the basement. i went to the "K" hospital and stayed for a week, then they shipped me to the longeterm unit of the "B" hospital for 3 and a half months.

my dad came back from jail too but now hes really nice. he told me that i was dreaming about everything and nothing ever happened. he never hit me or touched me. it got to the point where i started to believe it.

things got better but i got worst. i never hurt myself though.. im not that type that would cut or throw up. i just kept everything inside. i gave up telling people what happened because i felt as if everyone was against me anyway.

my friend believes that i went to the hospital because my mom asked them to take me in. do people go to the hospital just for that? i told the hospital people wut happened to me and every time they would ignore me. my hospital therapist told my parents that i only talked about adoption and abuse when i was hyper.

the thing is that im not making this stuff up. i know what happened to me, my and my sisters diaries can prove it, and my friends can too since they saw the way my body was after my dad. and i kno i can be adopted any time i want because my friends mom offered it to me. i dont want to tho because my parents said they wouldnt pay for my college if i left. and there is no point because ill be 18 in a yr or two.

and also wut sucks is that i have 50 billion.. not really... stretch marks all over me. on my thighs and arms. last school yr/2007, i weighed 92 lbs. but i gained 20 lbs in one week. i kno because they weighed me before and after i went out of the hospital the third time.

I hate my body and im terrified about how itll be when I lose my virginity.

But that wasn’t the point. The point is that I want to know why im so quiet now. Everyone knew me as outgoing, talkative, and wild. But now im the total opposite, im shy, quiet, and do only what I know I can do.

I used to love dancing and singing but now when me and my friends are like jamming to music.. I just sit on the couch and pretend to be happy. Not even my friends can help put a genuine smile on my face anymore. I wish things were how they used to be.. well. Idk not really cuz I am growing a lot by whats happened. And I finally stopped my dad from doing all his ****.

Im also getting better. I mean there was a time that I was terrified to go back to school because I was afraid people were going to recognize me. But this year ive been volunteering at the library, waving to people who say hi to me, and walking out in public.

But I hate getting better so slowly… I just want to be happy again. Why can’t I do that? Why can’t I talk anymore?

btw.. thanks for replying, i didnt think anyone would. and what you said makes sense cuz in all da movies ive seen, a lotta abused kids didnt tell anyone about what happened because they felt it was their fault.. idk.

and sorry for making this so long..yeaaaaaaaa lol

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Heather
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It happened whenyou were 12, but you've made clear that the groundwork was set per the way he touched and treated you well before that.

Again: if a groundwork is set for a child where they are not given ownership of their bodies and sane boundaries from the very people who should be teaching them both, it's not realistic to expect them to somehow magically have them.

Per your sister, there's something called Stockholm Syndrome which may be an issue: it basically means that someone is abused to a point where they sympathize with their abuser and side with them. It's not at all uncommon, especially in settings where abuse is the norm -- which it's clear it very much was/is in your household -- and where it goes on for some time.

It's also not "nice" of your father to deny your abuse. That isn't nice at all. he may no longer be sexually or physically abusing you or anyone else (which would be very unusual), but denying abuse happened both is not nice and IS an abuse in and of itself.

It's also very normal to have body image problems when you've been abused. MOST people have stretch marks, and plenty of people have lots of them. They're a normal part of everyone's body. if and when you want to have consensual sex with them, that person should be someone who will love your body as it is, and should not be something to be afraid of.

Please know that you NEVER have to tell anyone here you did not and are not making this up. You just don't: think of this as an automatic-belief place, for you.

From what I can gather, you did a pretty incredible thing here, honey: very, very few abused children find themselves able to stand up for themselves and take action to halt abuse.

I think it's pretty obvious why you're feeling so badly about everything. Not only are you trying to heal from abuse without actually talking about it to anyone, you also have to live with the serious mind-you-know-what of living with your abuser AND having that abuser deny their abuse. That's incredibly hard stuff to deal with: incredibly hard.

So, might you consider opening up to your therapist? Really, if you're a minor who has had police reports with this and foster care, chances are your therapist knows already, especially if he or she was assigned to you through this process.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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chickenfeet
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yeah i dont know if i can trust her. i mean no adult i kno has been on my side through this. the one that was closest to being on my side was my oldest sister but she like failed me in a way. and yea the police and phone service help line believed me but they dont count cuz im not even close to them lol.

i was wondering.. do all first kisses suck? and if the kiss sucked then wont the sex be horrible too? cuz im planning on losing my virginity to this guy on halloween but i dont want the sex to be awkward. and we only kissed once. so this is like a HUGE step.

my friend says i need closure first. to realize that the guy im kissing is not my dad and they supposed to kiss like that.

also.. when people give head, or they supposed to spit or swallow? and if they spit, then where?

and like with condoms.. dont they slip off after the guy ejaculates? so what happens if the condom gets stuck in the vagina? like would all the semen come out and spread through the tubes?

and are people supposed to have lubricants?

and if the dick is big then will that mean it could break ur vagina? cuz my friends told me that if i wanted to have sex i should do it first with a guy that had a small penis so it wouldnt hurt as much. and ive read stories on this site where girls bleed a LOT after intercourse.

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Heather
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I think going from one kiss right into intercourse is skipping an awful lot of steps, gal. What's the rush?

Per the kiss thing....eh, sometimes. But again, ideally, you'd have a lot more times to kiss someone before intercourse when it's all new. And if you're engaging in oral sex with a new partner, spit-or-swallow are nonissues, since that new partner should be wearing a condom for fellatio.

Really, I'm in between things right now and just passing through, so I can't answer all these questions, and some of them aren't really answerable in any general way. But the way you're asking, and how much you're asking for tells me that sex with someone else right now sounds an awful lot like something you're really rushing into. Especially since a mere two days ago, the mere idea of intercourse was terrifying to you.

So, what's going on? And have you taken a look at articles on the main site yet FOR a lot of this information? And at things like Ready or Not? The Scarleteen Sex Readiness Checklist and Yield for Pleasure and Safer Sex...for Your Heart?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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chickenfeet
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idk wut the rush is lol. i think im scared im going to lose him. i asked him 'if i told you im never going to do anything sexual with you, what would you do?' and he was like 'id probably leave you or tell you to see other people' except the thing is.. we aren't even going out. does that make me a whore if i do sleep with him? i mean we have liked each other for 2 years. except he still does sexual stuff with other people. i just figured he needed to be satisfied or something.. idk.

i was looking at my body after i posted my last reply. and afterwards i talked to my friend who had sex a couple of times and she told me that if the guy is having sex with you then most likely he isnt trying to judge your body. so that made me feel better.

and i figured that if i was going to lose him as a 'partner'-ish kind of person then i might as well lose 'it[virginity]' to him as well. i mean that way ill have experience, i did it with the person ive ever been closest to loving, and ill find out if hes the kind of guy to have sex and leave. either way ill get experienced. if he leaves then ill grow as a person by figuring out my feelings about his leaving, and if he doesnt leave, then ill grow to have a bigger .. heart... for him.

sex is kind of an experiment for me. and i want to do it now because if i dont i doubt ill do it later. plus we can experience everything else during foreplay.

its funny because this is the first time im ever going to be alone with him (other then the 1 minute of kissing time) and we are straight off going to do it lol.

and itll be something to pass the time. i think my friends think i wont ever have sex because im so rigid about the topic but i want to prove them wrong too. is that peer pressure? haha i have no idea.

maybe we wont get to it this halloween because we'll only be spending an hour together.. two if he meets me at the bus station.

and i guess i think it would be pretty cool to lose my virginity on halloween, after all i was born on christmas, and got my period on thanksgiving. it just works out that way lol.

and itd b pretty fun to lose my virginity in an abandoned apartment.

i read the articles too and i think im ready. like all my years of knowing him, my friends have bashed on him.. calling him a player and a liar. i never use it against him because its only their words but it helped kind of build an invisible wall of protection around me. so i dont think ill be too upset if he leaves me.

i might talk to him about it more though. but at this point i really dont care what happens. sometimes i think i want him to leave me because that way i wont get hurt. im probably the type of person to make a fool of myself in order to get dumped instead of straight off telling the person i dont want to see them anymore.

it sucks though because hes listened to all my problems throughout the years. and ive listened to his. but if he stops liking me, im not sure ill be able to be just friends with him.

all my exs ive been able to chill with because we didnt do anything sexual. (if a kiss can be considered sexual

he also said that he would never hurt me, i would never lose him, that i would be the one to end the relationship, and hes made references to love and having a family together.

if i was to talk about sex with him, then i have no idea what to ask and talk about. i really dont care about the consequences because i already know the worst that can happen.

when he said that i would be the one to end the relationship, i thought maybe he would intentionally sabatoge it. but he might have meant that he would always have intimate feelings toward me until i stopped.

i guess what im really saying is that im ready to do it. i been doing a lot of daydreaming too. and i think the most important thing is to feel ready because only then can people really open up to others.

also.. whats fellatio? can guys get it too? and its not really fair if i dont wear a condom when he eats me out but he has to for me to give him head... what kind of condoms can girls wear that guys can eat out with?

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Heather
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Know what? Having sex to try and keep someone around is a REALLY lousy reason to have sex with someone else. And it also rarely works, or results in enjoyable sex for both people.

What that guy said to you? especially this early in the game? That's a reason to ditch the guy and move on, waiting for someone a LOT more sensitive than that, NOT a reason to have sex with that person.

It's not your job to just satisfy some guy sexually, because he "needs" it. Partnered sex needs to be about BOTH people. This whole business of who is a whore or a slut or any of that garbage isn't what's relevant here. What's relevant is that you're rushing into something you pretty clearly, from where I am sitting, are NOT ready for, and with someone who thus far, sounds like a bit of a jerk. You say you already know the worst that can happen, but you know, why have it happen AGAIN? I also haven't heard you having to deal with an unwanted pregnancy or an STI. It's so walk in the park.

Sex also isn't a way to pass the time. It carries a LOT of risks, emotional and physical, and if you just need to pass the time, c'mon gal, there are better ways to do that.

You say this guy cares for you: then why on earth would he have said something like that to you? You say you two are all good: good enough that before you do anything like this, you can talk candidly about safer sex, about birth control, about both of your expectations, about your risks?

quote:
he also said that he would never hurt me, i would never lose him, that I would be the one to end the relationship, and hes made references to love and having a family together.
That's lovely, however, that's also the kind of thing people say all the time, and often don't follow through on. Again, some reality-checking is clearly needed here.

I hear you telling me you're ready, but between this post and the last one, that just doesn't seem even remotely so. Your understanding of how sex goes and what it involves clearly is really without vital information, your expectations are clearly very unrealistic. Can you please have a look at those links I gave you? Really? If you can't even take the time to read up, it's just whack to be suggesting you're all fine and well and good.

No matter what? There are other halloweens and other abandoned apartments. And there can be both of those when you're a lot more ready, when you and your partner have spent more time together with all the steps in the middle, when the other person involved has a lot more emotional maturity, and when it's a lot more likely to really be something positive and beneficial, not just something to do to keep someone, to pass the time, or just because.


Per your last questions? Again, please read the links I gave to you, and start reading up at the main site. If you'd read them and more like them? You really would already know the answers to those questions.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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chickenfeet
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i know you dont think i read them but i did. they didnt answer my questions like fellatio though. i guess i can look it up in the dictionary.

anyway, i really did feel ready but i guess if you dont think i am, then i must not be. after all, you are all experts, right?

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Heather
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Well, I'm not the expert about YOU, you are.

But I am well-skilled, having done this job for ten years now, in helping other people determine their readiness, and in being aware of, in general, what tends to be a lack of readiness.

So, when a user says to me that readiness to them is only or solely about being open to someone else, my radar goes off. Especially when that same person says something pretty conflicting with that in the very same post and also says a whole lot of things that are very clearly things people who aren't being realistic about sex will say. Anyone even a little bit older and wiser, or a little more experienced who is being honst can easily look at most of what you've said about this here and see how much a lot of it is just in lalaland, and not based in reality.

But you being an incest survivor on top of all of that, having a lot of depression due to that, having body image issues on top of all that, saying you wouldn't know how to talk about sex with him and this guy saying something pretty freaking jerky to you, you clearly being in a massive hurry and all the fatalism? Pretty much screams not ready -- not ready for sex in a way that will be likely to be positive for you, and really ABOUT you, anyway.

I'll be honest: I get feeling like crap about yourself and being self-destructive or really just looking to get hurt to punish yourself for things that aren't your fault, but seem like it. Been there, done that to the NINES, and thankfully, it's been 20 years since I was in that space, because lord was crawling my way out of it awful, and boy oh boy did it set me back really needlessly.

I get it, and when someone is hell-bent on doing that, there is generally little anyone can do or say to stop them. But I also know that doing yourself harm, or not doing smart things to really keep your heart and body relatively safe rarely nets good results, and if you're suffering already, making more suffering or confusion for yourself never helps.

Plus, it's our job here to advocate for people's safety and well-being. So, if and when we see someone who appears to be, or clearly is, looking to be self-destructive or just careless with themselves, we're never going to just cheer them on.

The good stuff? Pretty much ALWAYS keeps. If you're going to have something really good with someone, the very least it can wait is a couple of weeks. And consensual sex is NOT sexual abuse: you can't compare those two things, and say you know what one is like because you know what the other is like: it's apples and oranges. I hear you doing that, and I understand why you would, especially if you, as you've expressed, really don't feel like you've healed or been able to sort out any of your abuse issues. But it's not apt, and tossing yourself into something more likely to be bad or just plain suck than to be good just isn't wise.

[ 10-28-2007, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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chickenfeet
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I don't know. It's hard. I really want to just do it lol, i dont know if that sounds brutal though, but its true.

I looked up the definition: an erection from oral pleasure (or something like that)

im going to talk to him about how i feel. and i guess im going to tell him too about some stuff ive been hiding from him. like how i used to let my friend go on my screen name or phone and pretend she was me. which is pretty bad that he didnt recognize the difference between us. then again ive heard from reliable sources that hes done the same with me.

how do people know when they are ready?

and also this may be an excuse (ive learned from friends that i tend to make up a lot of excuses for other people to compensate for the jacked up stuff they do) but the only reason i felt i couldnt talk to him about sex was because i didnt want to try.

yeah he says stuff like he dont want to use a condom during oral sex but thats just his opinion. and i thought if he didnt want it during oral then he might not want it during intercourse. but i was wrong because i learned he dont want to have babies right now, so that kinda refers to how he would want to wear a condom.

SIGH im so confused now! :/

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Heather
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I'm so sorry, chickenfeet: I didn't mean to NOT tell you what fellatio is -- it's the term for receptive male oral sex, aka, blowjobs -- I was simply distracted because there was so much else in all you said that struck me as so much more critical.

Per how people know when they're ready, how did you do with that readiness checklist? How much do you and this guy really have on it, and how much don't you?

(And FYI? Not wanting to use a condom during oral sex may be his opinion, but a) he needs to still defer to a partner and think in the interest of your health, and b) him saying he does not want babies does NOT mean he'll step it up and use condoms for intercourse. This would be one of those many things you need to discuss in advance and know for certain he's on board with.)

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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chickenfeet
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we did talk about what we would need before we did it. it was funny at first because when i asked him the first thing he said was liquor, the second was drugs, and then he didnt know what else we would need. so i asked if he wanted babies with me and he said not any time soon so that was when i was like 'so theres NOTHING else u think we need?' and thats when he said condoms. but i think he just took condoms for granted that they would be used. and then we talked about being sober in sex and he said he wanted us to be sober.

haha and its okay that you got sidetracked, i do too, everyone does so yeah and it wasnt that important.

the only things that i dont have on the checklist are like.. everything. i dont have a lubricant (i dont need one if im really ready i would be wet already), i dont have a sex budget since i havent even had sex yet, i dont know if my insurance covers pregnacies but i use medicare so i dont know what that means, and i have no idea where any local sexual clinics are, and im never using birth control pills because i suck with being up to date.

is it bad that i have nothing? the only thing i know ill have is condoms because i decided i am NOT having sex without condoms until im married and ready to have a baby.

and i guess we def. have to talk about where exactly we are going to do it. because if its in an abandoned apartment like he keeps saying ... then we going to need like a blanket at least because the floors are hard and dusty. well actually nevermind, ive been to those developments and they are all carpeted. but yeah i would still want a blanket.

i kind of want to do it at his place though, even though he doesnt seem to want to bring me to his place. probably because he doesnt even have his own room, he sleeps on the couch in the living room... and anyone could walk in.

if a guy says he really likes you but doesnt put you up on his profile as one of his 'top friends' and has other girls on it... what does that mean? is he being secretive? or just doesnt feel the need to make things public? or because i dont have him on mine?

and i kind of dont know if i would want to have sex for the first time with a stranger or someone i really knew. because i really know him and thats what makes it more intimate and scary but not really at the same time. and with a stranger, you wouldnt be judged because you wouldnt know the same people.

i keep having this like daydream where i get off the train and meet him at the bus stop. and we're sitting on a bench just talking and the bus comes and we get on. and i like lean my head against the window and hold his hand and tell him why i feel so exhausted (emotionally) or have my head on his chest. (we'd be sitting all the way in the back of the bus). and like we would start making out and get off the bus and run to like a nearby place and just do it. but thats like SO out of a movie or book.

sometimes i feel like ill have a heart attack.. but not really.. when i think about him. my heart starts beating and skipping beats really fast and i would feel really light like nothing could hold me down from floating up. then i look at his picture online and im like... wow.. this guy can make me feel like that? but i learned to control that when we talk because thats the only way we could have real convesations instead of us just staring at each other.

if i heard nothing bad about him i would fall in love so much easier with him just because of the stuff he says. but i feel like he just talks smack. like saying he wants to do what i want him to do... if thats true then why dont he stop smokin and drinkin and start doing good academically? i was thinking of rewarding him with me if he could stop for 6 months. but thats bad too, right? what do you think?

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Heather
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If condoms are the ONLY thing you have on that list, then yes: we can very easily say you are really not at all prepared for partnered sex, and it's very unlikely to be a positive experience for you.

Too? If your partner was at all serious about drugs and rink, that makes this even MORE of an unsafe experience for you: it isn't at all smart or safe to be having sex wasted, especially not with someone who hasn't been a sexual partner for quite some time.

Sex isn't a reward for good behaviour. It's not a biscuit you give a good dog. It's something two people share, not goods to be exchanged. You keep talking about this, a lot, without really factoring YOU into the equation, and seeming to understand that sex isn't just about your partner's needs or satisfaction. If you're not ready to be an equal part, then...well, yet another reason running into this so haphazardly would be bad news.

But I'll tell you, you thinking that this is something better to consider six months from now rather than right now sure makes me feel a whole lot better.

So, why not consider some normal, healthy pace? How about, on halloween, y'all have a date of some kind, and maybe, if you're both feeling it, you try that KISS again, for crying out loud? (Especially since the first one apparently blew chunks.) Really, while there isn't some exact, same order everyone's sexual activities need to go in, to go from one date where there is a kiss to another where there is EVERYTHING, especially with all you're grappling with, and how utterly unprepared you are and...well, how great this guy does NOT sound, just isn't smart.

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Heather
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I have to head off now to do some other work, but I thought it might be helpful for me to post here all of what, from what you have said, and what I can see you do NOT have on that list.

Starting even with the barest basics:

quote:
A Reality Check Quickie

Intercourse or other partnered sex will not necessarily do any of the following for you or your partner:

* Guarantee a longer or closer relationship than you already have

That's clearly something you aren't realizing or accepting.

Unto the actual checklist, and what you do NOT have or seem to have on it:

• I have a large bottle of latex-safe lubricant (KY, Liquid Silk, Astroglide, Wet, etc.).

• I have a secondary method of birth control for use with condoms if I am female and the sex I am and having presents a pregnancy risk when I do not wish to become pregnant and/or parent.

• I have a list, or know where to find one easily, of local sexual health clinic or gynecologist phone numbers.

• I have a savings account I can use myself at any time (preferably, with a pad of $500), and I have a "sex budget" of about $50 minimum per month to take care of any needed birth control, safer sex items and annual testing and sexual health care.

• I am covered under a health insurance policy, which could cover pregnancy, neonatal care, gynecological visits, STI testing and/or birth control, or I have the funds to pay for these services myself. (You MAY have this, but you'd have to look into what your medicare covers to be sure)

• I have had regular doctor checkups, disease and infection testing, and am in good health, and my partner has had regular doctor checkups, disease and infection testing, and is in good health.

• I understand my own anatomy and my partners anatomy, as well as the basics of sex, STIs and human reproduction, when applicable.

• I can tell when I am sexually aroused, and also know when I am not, what I need to be aroused, or when I simply cannot get aroused.(I don't know about this with you: you haven't talked about your own sex life, even just by yourself at all.)

• I can relax during sexual practices without fear, anxiety or shame.

• I am able to create limits (to say no when I want to) and can and do trust my partner to respect them at all times.

• I can assess what I want for myself, and separate it from what my partner, friends or family want.

• I am able to trust my partner, and am trustworthy myself.

• I can tell my partner what I want sexually and emotionally, and when I do and do not like something.

• I am comfortable being unclothed with my partner and physically intimate with them, as well as comfortable with and able to be honest about my gender identity and gender roles with my partner.

• I can talk to my partner about sex comfortably, and be honest and forthright, and they can do the same with me.

• Both myself and my partner can be honest with each other about our sexual history.

• I can take full responsibility for my own emotions, expectations and actions.

• I can handle being disappointed, confused, or upset.

• I have a member of my family I can talk to about sex, and friends I can go to for emotional support.

• I can separate sex from love -- even when I love the person I am considering or having sex with -- and do not seek to have sex to use it to manipulate, control or influence myself, my partner, or anyone else, or to try and "earn" love.

• I understand that having sex could change my relationship for good or for the worse, and feel I can handle whatever may happen.

• I am prepared to deal with social or cultural judgment based on my choice to be sexually active as a young person.

• I feel I can emotionally handle a possible pregnancy (if applicable), disease or infection, or rejection from my partner.

And that, m'dear is MOST of the list. Not having one or two things, eh, that'll usually be okay. But not having almost ALL of it? Recipe for disaster.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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chickenfeet
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yeah but i know it wont guarantee a longer relationship thats why i was like saying if he stopped talking to me then i would learn from that.

and im pretty sure that i have like 16 of those on the list. but thats about it.

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-Jill
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Reading through this, I'm overwhelmed by the sense of urgency. It's as if you've set Halloween as the date and you're determined to make that day work. You even seem willing to make unnecessary sacrifices to your health and happiness, as long as you get to go through with your original plan.

I don't understand why there doesn't seem to be any flexibility on the date or why you're pushing so hard to assure yourself that you'll be okay when very clearly you're not ready for sex.

Is learning from someone hurting you really going to be okay? Usually that's a pretty painful experience so if you can avoid it by waiting until you've spent more time together, done a more thorough job of communicating, and taken to time to use basic safeguards like sti testing and actually discussing your plans for birth control and what to do if that birth control fails why not take the time to do just that?. Is there any reason to learn all of this stuff the hard way instead of doing the best you can to take care of yourself?

You mentioned that you do have several of the things from the checklist in place. Can I ask in what ways you are ready for sex and what you feel you personally need to be ready? While first time sex is pretty much never perfect, there's no need for it to be as potentially hurtful as your situation currently sounds.

[ 10-29-2007, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: -Jill ]

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chickenfeet
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• I can tell when I am sexually aroused, and also know when I am not, what I need to be aroused, or when I simply cannot get aroused. I know when im aroused because i can feel pressure on the lower part of my stomach, my heart gets heavy and light at the same time (beating and skipping beats), i breathe harder, and i can feel myself getting wet.

• I can relax during sexual practices without fear, anxiety or shame. The only sexual thing i did was kiss, i dont have a sex life, but when i was kissing i didnt feel anxious. it was just a kiss and all i was thinking was wow.. this kiss sucks.

• I am able to create limits (to say no when I want to) and can and do trust my partner to respect them at all times. I do tell my guy why i feel the way i do. like why i dont want to rush and he told me we didnt have to have sex.

• I can assess what I want for myself, and separate it from what my partner, friends or family want. No matter what my friends say, usually if i want something, i go after it.

• I am able to trust my partner, and am trustworthy myself. me and my guy learned that weve lied to each other. me about physical stuff and him about emotional stuff. but now that weve been honest with each other about lieing, we stopped lieing... or got better at it.

• I can tell my partner what I want sexually and emotionally, and when I do and do not like something. i talk to my guy about the kiss we had and my fears about not pleasing him. and he tells me that he doesnt care about kisses. and we talked about where we are at in our relationship and where having sex might take us.

• I am comfortable being unclothed with my partner and physically intimate with them, as well as comfortable with and able to be honest about my gender identity and gender roles with my partner. im totally honest with my partner about my emotions and ive never been unclothed with him so im not sure about that one. i think id b comfy walking around in a bra and undies or just undies. i dk i think vaginas are nasty looking but i dont care if he do look at mine cuz its okay that he might be curious... then again this is all hypothetical right now.

• I can talk to my partner about sex comfortably, and be honest and forthright, and they can do the same with me. we talk a lot about what sex would be like.

• Both myself and my partner can be honest with each other about our sexual history. he told me a lot about his history. like his first sex partner, and him getting head and other stuff. ive told him about my friend when i was little, and my dad.

• I can take full responsibility for my own emotions, expectations and actions. i tell him what i expect so that he knows and i know i cant blame anyone for what i feel.

• I can handle being disappointed, confused, or upset. i was all of that when we kissed but we still talked and grew to like each other more. that way if sex and other experiences arent as fun then we can just find another way to make it fun.

• I have a member of my family I can talk to about sex, and friends I can go to for emotional support. i dont talk to my family about sex but i do talk to my friends and my friends older sisters. and sisters boyfriends. i generally am a lot more open with other people then i do with my family.

• I can separate sex from love -- even when I love the person I am considering or having sex with -- and do not seek to have sex to use it to manipulate, control or influence myself, my partner, or anyone else, or to try and "earn" love. i think people should love by themselves. i want to know that he loves me for me not for the sex. and i know love and sex is different. anyone can have sex and sex should not impact how much a person does or does not love someone. just because we might have bad sex doesnt mean we dont love each other.

• I understand that having sex could change my relationship for good or for the worse, and feel I can handle whatever may happen. whatever is meant to be is meant to be. and sex always changes a relationship, which is kind of a relief for me because i want a change. being the same thing, confused, is lame. sex might make it more confusing but at least its one more step in another direction.

• I am prepared to deal with social or cultural judgment based on my choice to be sexually active as a young person. i dont care about being judged based on social or cultural. people are dumb for judging.

• I feel I can emotionally handle a possible pregnancy (if applicable), disease or infection, or rejection from my partner. i can def. handle rejection from my guy, although i know that would suck and i wouldnt like it. if i get an infection i can just go to my gyno. im asking my CMO to help me find health clinics that are covered by my insurance and also gynos that wont be that expensive. if i was pregnant, depending on what my guy wanted and what i wanted, i would give birth (no abortion) and keep the child. I would get support from my mom and sisters at least and def my friends would help me look after the child. this is in a maybe scenerio. i know they would help me because they offered to house me for free when i was under a lot of stress and going through a tough time with my family. their parents actually talked about signing papers too.

I know that getting regular checkups are important which is why im trying to find a gyno. and a health clinic to learn more about sex.

i dont think ill need a lubricant because i just poked myself a few minutes ago. well i thought i had my period but didnt, i was just really wet while talking about sex. (i didnt even feel aroused.. well more then i am usually feeling). and i was able to put three/four fingers in easy which was pretty awesome because the other 3 times i did it, there was only one finger involved and it hurt a LOT.

the reason i stuck a lot of fingers in was because i started out with one and it went in really easy and so i stuck as much as i could that could fit. my cmo worker also told me that a gyno. would sometimes put on a glove and stick their hand up the vagina to feel around to see if everything felt normal. i wanted to see how much it would hurt to put a hand up but my hand was too big.

surprisingly i didnt bleed. maybe i bled from the tampon but thats not true because i heard tampons dont break the hymen. they are too small. but i felt like i did reach in really far because i could feel the walls of my vagina. they were soft and mushy.

how does my situation sound soo hurtful? i really do want to have sex. i mean im like in love with the dude. kinda.

maybe i just want to have sex because of my medication (wellbutrin and lithium) and because i didnt get my period this month. i just started wellbutrin in the beginning of this month.

i want to wait it out because of your advice but i want to actually have fun doing it. so i would like to do it more in the spur of the moment (with safety) then later on when i DONT want to do it and someone else does want to do it. and i want to do it with my guy because ive known him for so long and i feel protected and comfy with him. even though he says stuff that implies that he generally just wants to get in my pants but lies about it.

i dont think thats the only reason though because i dont understand why he would bother with me. i didnt do anything with him for 3 yrs so he must really like me to be that patient, considering hes done a lot of stuff already. he took things REALLY slow with me, every time i said i wanted to do wut he wanted to do, he would say everything was up to me.

i can explain more of the stuff that might make you guys think hes a jerk and some of the stuff that might make you guys think he was awesome. if you think it would help you with a more indepth view of me thought process and that you may be able to help me, then i will def. explain away.

im def taking your advice and starting slow. i want us both to be prepared and fully aroused when we start to do some deep stuff. then again slow to me could go from 2 minutes to my deathbed. who knows?

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LilBlueSmurf
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Not having healthcare in place now (or even the resources to get the healthcare) means you are not ready for sex. You need to have this now, not a plan to get it once you've already had sex.

The exam from the GYN that you're talking about is a bimanual exam, and it involves two fingers, not the whole hand. There is no reason you need to be sticking your whole hand up there just to make sure you can do it.

And i'm gonna quote Heather, b/c i think it needs to be said again. "Sex isn't a reward for good behaviour. It's not a biscuit you give a good dog. It's something two people share, not goods to be exchanged." Just because your partner was taking things slow for three years, doesn't mean he should get something for that now.

I get that you really want this. But i worry that you're taking this too fast, with someone who does not have your best interest at heart.

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chickenfeet
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How do you know he doesnt have my best interest at heart? and yeah i totally get the reward thing after it was explained. i just figured that all guys were about was like physical stuff so yeah.. i dont know, nevermind.

and like no one i know that had sex had resources to get healthcare, that's why it didnt occur to me as something important to have before sex.

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Heather
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quote:
i just figured that all guys were about was like physical stuff so yeah
Even if and when they WERE, it still wouldn't mean that you're obliged to be in sexual service to them. Again, partnered sex should be about BOTH people's pleasure and desires, not just one.

Really, chickenfeet, I think that we've said pretty much all we can say on this. If you're hell-bent on doing this anyway, we both can't stop you, and it's not our place to do so. You CAN have spur-of-the-monent sex which you've still had sound preparation for, and after you've talked about the important stuff with your potential partner: preparation isn't a barrier to being spontaneous.

But at this point, you either take this advice and consider our impressions or you don't. It's just not constructive for us to get in arguments with users about whether or not they should have sex. You've got the information to consider here, and even just reading all of this thread, starting from your first post, I think says -- including your own words -- what you need to know to make a sound choice for yourself, which you'll either figure out and make or not.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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chickenfeet
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so yeah i was talking to my therapist and a couple of other adults (like my psychiatrist) about my situation. and i realized that i really DONT want to do anything with him.

i feel like hes a major jerk! ... trying to push up on my friends PSH. but yeah.

also i got my period, so im in a really cranky mood now and am ready to bash anyone that i can find a reason to.

i think im just going to tell him that until hes ready to stop fooling around with other girls and start settling down with me, then im not going to 'fool' around with him. because i feel like this relationship isnt going anywhere, im not going to waste any more of my time. and that its sad he dont seem to be able to respect his body that hed be ready to give it up to anyone. ill tell him that if i do stuff with him then ill be letting myself down. i need to protect myself from getting hurt. and if that means getting hurt just a little bit for a while then id rather take that risk then get a disease by a boy who dont take me seriously and will end up hurting me more for a long while.

he got a hot body but who cares, ill find other guys that ill like. maybe they wont have a hot body or face but if they respect me more then an ******* could CAUF and i respect them then im willing to go on from there. i want to be with someone that only wants to be with me.

it sucks though because i feel all these mixed messages. like im a teenager, i should be dating and not trying to be serious. but i shouldnt hurt myself... but im not going to do stuff with someone that doesnt make me want him in all ways and if he dont want just me in all ways then ill get hurt. i overanalyze too much. dating is good, sex shouldnt be done until a serious relationship is formed, sometimes its like a relationship cant be formed without learning about each other physically. i lost my train of thought.

i think what helped me change was learning that oral sex can lead to diseases easy. i didnt realize that and when i did i realize how much diseases i could get from him because we havent really talked about if we had diseases or not.

idk i think its always something really drastic with me.. im on one side or the other and i keep switching. yeah.

im talking to my dad now and i hate him so ******* much. he can ******* kill himself and i dont care. ******* bastard. ill ******* **** him up. i ******* hate him. ugh. i wish he could just die.

what the ****? like seriously.. so lame!! i hate him. whatever. hes so messed up. ughhhh. mother ****er. whatever.

sorry. i had to talk. whateverrrrrrrr mother ****eerr with a toe ring.. hate him.

i dont even care.

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Heather
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quote:
it sucks though because i feel all these mixed messages. like im a teenager, i should be dating and not trying to be serious. but i shouldnt hurt myself... but im not going to do stuff with someone that doesnt make me want him in all ways and if he dont want just me in all ways then ill get hurt. i overanalyze too much. dating is good, sex shouldnt be done until a serious relationship is formed, sometimes its like a relationship cant be formed without learning about each other physically. i lost my train of thought.
Nah, I hear you. Thing is, this isn't all-or-nothing stuff, nor can we somehow miraculously learn a lot of what there is to know from someone through one single sex session or one bout of intercourse.

We learn about people, and form relationships, gradually, and over time. And when we're talking about sexual relationships, or those where sex is part of the relationship, we can take steps to that gradually just like we do in getting to know someone in other ways.

For some people, it IS okay for sex to happen outside the context of a serious or monogamous relationship. But again, that doesn't have to be immediate, and again, when that same person is talking about extreme hatred of their body, being terrified of first-time sex, and about a partner sending mixed messages (or just saying crappy stuff), then pretty clearly, we're not looking at a great situation for sex no MATTER what kind of relationship it is.

It should also be said that it's pretty normal to find yourself framing things as very black and white when you're young, and normal to have a tough time seeing the shades of grey. But again, that's really another part of readiness: sex is never black or white, or either/or, so until it is a bit easier to see all the shades and stages and intricacies, it's usually best to hold off.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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chickenfeet
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okay so this dyfs worker came to see me today. she told me that she had to talk to my mom and i had to be there.. but then she makes me go wait in the next room so she can be alone with my mom. and... then she leaves. so yeah i couldnt help but listen in at the end and all i hear is 'you're just spoiling her too much'. could that be why i hate my parents so much? i mean im pretty sure i hate them because my dad touched/hit me and my mom ignored it on purpose. but could the lady mean that i made it up because im spoiled? it doesnt make sense.
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Heather
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I think that for a social worker who knew there was sexual abuse in your family and neglect to talk about your being "spoiled" is BEYOND inappropriate, flatly. And if you're up to it, that's pretty sound reason to request a new caseworker.

Your father sexually abused you and denied your abuse. from what I understand, your mother knew about the abuse and did not act to stop it. THOSE are the likely reasons you are angry with your parents -- validly -- not for in whatever brief moments they perhaps indulged you.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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chickenfeet
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how do i ask for a new caseworker? i think that like everything im in right now has to do with dyfs though. for example: my mentor, therapist, cmo worker, and psychiatrist. i didnt even know i had a caseworker. i just knew that all the services i was getting was from dyfs. should i ask my cmo worker about it?

like idk i really dont feel like getting shut down again by an adult. im seriously beginning to lose SO much trust in the people that are supposed to guide us. i think ive given up a lot of hope on people.

and its not like i WANT to get my parents in trouble. i dont think i want revenge. i just want them to admit what happened. and sometimes we get into these huge fights about how im sick and thats why i was imagining it. but why would i imagine something like that? and i wasnt sick before. plus i was talking to my psychiatrist and she said it was possible that my mom may have told them that i was making up lies and that was why they decided to go into my mind. and when they saw my story conflicting with my parents, then they knew something was wrong. but because my parents talked to them first, they chose to believe my parents.

i think that all teenagers a little hormonal. but i was labeled bipolar because i could switch my mood fast. like the first time i went to the hospital i wasnt labeled anything. and the last time i wasnt labeled anything for the first two weeks. they were going to release me but when i heard that i immediately got happy about leaving. so they decided to keep me longer. or something like that.

i have no idea what my point was.

Posts: 22 | From: Newark | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
chickenfeet
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but i think i was acting out a lot because i didnt know how to release my stress. whenever i came home, i had my mom shoving stories about how my dad was in jail and how he didnt deserve it into my mind. and i had barely any contact with my friends. i also believed that no one was listening to me. i couldnt believe they would make me go back home when i told them about my sister harassing me and my mom's neglect.

even NOW i have no idea how to release my stress. still no adults (Except my friends parents and my mentor) believe me. but i realized it really doesnt matter to me who believes me now except for my family.

but whatever.. one more year until i leave [Smile]

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-Jill
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It sounds like you have a lot of people working with you right now. I'd discuss this with whomever it is you trust; s/he might not be able to get you a new caseworker but will likely be able to give you more information or get the ball rolling.

Meanwhile, here's an old thread about dealing with stress that you might find helpful: http://www.scarleteen.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000335#000000

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“I would have girls regard themselves not as adjectives but as nouns.” --Elizabeth Cady Stanton

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Heather
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Chickenfeet, everything you're feeling is beyond valid, and really, you sound very lucid to me in these discussions when it comes to your abuse, so I think -- though it sounds like you already do -- you need to trust yourself.

All in all, people -- adults and non-adults -- handle abuse issues very poorly. That's just an unfortunate truism. Even just talking about abuse, acknowledging abuse is something our culture has only been doing for about 20 years (if you can believe that), so even good-hearted people are still often impeded by everyone still just being very new at this.

You may or may not be bipolar, but regardless, yes, sounds like your cmo worker is your caseworker and the right person to talk to.

I have to do an event tomorrow, but if you like, I could also do a little homework for you on Sunday to see what other resources I might be able to find for you in Newark per abuse support services from folks who really are dedicated to providing support without disbelief, etc.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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chickenfeet
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okay cool thanks. except i live more south from newark. newarks just where i was born. i live in camden county.

wait so i should talk to the cmo caseworker about getting my a new dyfs caseworker?

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Heather
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No trouble, I'll look there Sunday for you.

And so long as the cmo caseworker isn't the same person as the dcfs caseworker, sure, that'd be a fine person to talk to. ideally, you simply want to talk to someone who is the boss of your dcfs caseworker.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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chickenfeet
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oOo all right cool. ill def. find out
Posts: 22 | From: Newark | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
-Lauren-
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Hey, chickenfeet. Thanks for holding on. Heather is currently away, but hasn't forgotten about you, as has asked that this information be given to you, about places you can seek help for your abuse. Right now, it sounds so crucial that you find someplace where you can get some real assistance from people who won't second-guess you.

Coalition Against Rape & Abuse 609-522-6489

Family Counseling Service 856-964-7378

Office of Victim-Witness Advocacy 856-225-8431

South Jersey Legal Services
800-496-4570

Women's Center/SOLACE 856-227-1234

Please let us know if you need more, or if you need any further assistance or just want to talk. Hang in there!

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chickenfeet
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yeah idk if im going to really check out those numbers because my mom said that if anyone else but my mentor comes to her about me then shes putting me up for foster care and not letting me get adopted.. and i dont really want to get ... well i dont know what happens in foster care.. but im sure getting adopted by a friend is much better and itd take a long... well i dont know how long it would take but i think i wouldnt be adopted until i graduate high school. the process would be way too long... and i think if i called them i would end up telling them my name... idk whatever sigh lol
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-Jill
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It's entirely reasonable to ask whomever you talk to not to contact your mother ever. You do not have to give them a way to contact her. You also do not have to give them your name and even if you choose to give your name you do not have to give your last name. You could also simply explain you prefer to remain anonymous for the time being. No one is going to pressure you to identify yourself.

However, I do think you need to take steps to improve your situation. Contacting some of the resources you've been given to explore your options is something concrete you could do. From what I've read you very much need someone who believes you and is willing to work to help you right now. No one trying to help you is going to do something to put you in any danger so I hope you do consider calling one of those numbers.

Has anything improved for you? Have you talked to your CMO worker? If you're leaning towards being adopted by a friend's family what steps are you guys taking? How are you in general?

--------------------
“I would have girls regard themselves not as adjectives but as nouns.” --Elizabeth Cady Stanton

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