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Author Topic: So this was a big, long heart-ache.
Saffron Raymie
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Just before I went to university, I met this man. We flirted and kissed and hugged and even did some sexual things. However, I grew up in abuse - emotional, verbal and physical, so I told him I didn't want to be in a monogamous boyfriend-girlfriend type relationship. We were both 21.

But he wouldn't take no for an answer. He implied that, because we'd been sexual, I'd be hurting his feelings and being a terrible person if I said no. I did say no though. About 250 times. Yes, I know I should have stopped talking to him after not getting an equal voice, but I was still in my abusive relationship with my mum. This was about the time she started physically abusing me.

Neither of my parents are safe people, so I had nowhere immediate to go to that was safe. I ended up at this guy's house. He told me he wanted to get married and have children. He told me we'd live together. But here I am, five years later, sitting in his bedroom at his parents house.

This relationship has involved emotional abuse I think. A lot of it has been with-holding affection. I've never been allowed an equal voice in what we do and even though he promised me that would change, it never has. Like, all I ever want to do is go out and have fun with him once in a blue moon but he goes out with others and then rubs it in. He'll ask for hugs and kisses and then be like, 'Going out, bye!'

When we do go out, he just sits there in silence, waiting for me to say we can go home.

He's also made me dependent on him for living space - because he always told me he was 'saving up' to get a flat with me. Of course that never happened. So now I have literally no rights under this roof. I am leaving as much as I can, and have done twice - but the second time I lived with strangers and ended up being abused there too.

I know I keep myself stuck, but I also have terrible luck.

He didn't so much as control me seeing my friends but he never bothered to learn their names or anything and was extremely, extremey rude to them in person. I'll tell him stories about me and them and he'll just go 'oh right' or act like I'm annoying him. He's forgotten anything really personal I've told him.

He deliberately shows no interest, despite calling me every single day every time I leave this dump. He's usually crying. When I last moved out I was raped, and he was my main form of support because he phoned me so much, and he said me being raped had a 'silver lining' as it meant I was still needing him.

But it's like, if you wanted someone to be your girlfriend so badly that you won't takle no for an answer and call then 10 times a day when they leave you, reguardless of whether they answer the phone or not - why can't you say 'hey, what do you want to do today?' every once in a while?

I'm posting this because I was wondering if it was okay to talk about with-holding affection as a deliberate action to hurt someone?

Also, to vent, and because I so rarely get to speak to anyone anymore.

[ 06-27-2014, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Saffron Raymie ]

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Saffron Raymie
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It honestly feels like he prayed on me because I was vulnerable. He was always like, 'wow your mum is awful' but when I think back, I don't think he'd be all that compassionate unless there was something in it for him.

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Heather
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Oh, Saffy. [Frown] I am so sorry to hear about this.

By all means, we can talk about any part of this you'd like to.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Saffron Raymie
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Yes please, I don't understand with-holding affection that well, but my friend said he thought it happened to him when once he snuggled up with his partner and confided in him that he didn't think he deserved him, and his partner said, 'yeah, but I want you.' My friend described it as 'just feeling lukewarm about everything.'

We went to the beach once and he was smoking stuff by himself while I swam and he just looked really weary. It was so awkward.

Like, the other day I needed to buy something but I'd gone to meet him from work and he's never happy to see me. I was like, 'sorry I need to get something,' and he was just silent as he followed me around the store, and I just kept apologising.

He's turned the TV on while I was talking before. Mid-sentence, then said, 'we talk all the time, I need space.' But we talk all often because I never get any attention or postive responses.

I honestly feel like I've been a back-up games console for him. All he does is take, and I've never felt so unloved and disrespected. It's like he drags me back here so I can mean nothing to him. Then he's like, 'I hugged you all this morning.' Yeah, because that's what you wanted, and I responded affectionately. Does that make sense? Or do you think I'm out of line? I'm not even sure...

I have no idea what it's like to live with someone long term other than my mum - who always sought me out to tell me about her life and ask me about mine. Then she said I never give her a moment's peace or any space.

He's repeated it to me - that I don't give space - but I said it was his choice we live in a tiny bedroom (leaving the room isn't something that's done here, as his mother likes her space, obviously.)

The thing is, the abuse was so incredibly subtle, like I told him about needing to show him my favourite film like, every month, and he's been so whatever about it, and I just found out it's been sitting in his DVD collection all these long years.

Days ago I stretched out my arms and said, 'come get my love' to him really affectionately, and he said 'I don't need your love. I'd got my mum and dad and the dog and the cat.' That seemed so weird to me.

A few weeks back, I asked him to watch a 3 minute cartoon with me and he said yes, only to completely ignore it once it was on.

I honest feel like he never ever want to do something if I choose it, and I've honestly never felt so small.

I've been so depressed and retreated into myself so much, and I always thought it was me or because of my other traumas - but it's him. It's him, it's him. Amd it feels so much better that I know that now.

[ 06-27-2014, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Saffron Raymie ]

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Molias
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You don't sound out of line at all, here - not at all. It sounds like you're living with someone who's pretty much entirely unconcerned with your feelings or needs. Your description of feeling like a "back-up games console" is exactly like what this sounds like to me. It seems like this guy feels no hesitation in asking you for what he needs but doesn't see a reason to put any effort into respecting you or checking in to see how he can support you.

It really sounds like he started off this way - it's really not at all ok for someone to push and push for a relationship when the other person's said no.

In terms of withholding affection, it certainly doesn't sound like he's being very affectionate at all in the first place. Was there ever affection coming from him, that now feels like it's gone? Or is this just how it's been for a long time?

I'm really sorry you're in this position.

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Saffron Raymie
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Thank you so much, Molias.

Well, he'll give me little bits of affection when he chooses to. Like he said he enjoyed watching the soccer with me but I've literally never expressed any interest in soccer.

Hmm he's only really affectionate and kind to me when I leave him!

Sometimes he'll bring up a subject I'm obsessed with only to ignore me once I get into it.

He is affectionate sometimes, but it's never anything I ask for. He got a habbit of (don't laugh...) making my plush toys talk to me. It was really sweet but it's not something I ever asked for. It's like he'll only give me a little bit. Enough to keep me looking for attention, I think. He makes such a huge deal out of leaving when he goes out. He's even said 'I can help you, but only a little bit.'

You know, I told him it wasn't an equal relationship and so he said he didn't want a relationship, so he 'owes me nothing' and doesn't 'want to be responsible for my entertainment' or 'my life' but he knows I have nowhere else to go. He must know he lead me to believe we were getting a house together - he told me it was the 'next step'in our relationship.

So now we just aren't speaking unless we have to, and I'm a lot happier.


I mean, he buys me stuff but I don't really want it. Of course I always say thank you.

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Saffron Raymie
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After saying he 'didn't want a relationship' he went on and on and guilt tripped me into buying him a present I didn't want to buy him. I then asked for the money back, and he says I 'lead him on that I'd buy him a present'...

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Molias
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Oh no, this really does sound like piles and piles of manipulation on his part. Ugh. Buying or doing things you don't ask for and then bringing those things up as "proof" of how much he's done for you (while not doing the things you do ask for) is pretty much textbook abuser tactics.

Not speaking unless you have to might be awkward when you're living together, but it sounds like a good idea right now, and I'm glad that's helping you feel a little better.

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Saffron Raymie
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Gosh, that's an excellent point! I hadn't thought of that...

He also got me into smoking, I mean I had done it twice before but he taught me how and always offered me half his smoke and I apologised for taking it all. He always said me joining in had no effect. But then he just stopped offering it me but I was addicted then, so I kept asking for half and he always said yes. But now he's angry that I smoked so much.

And thank you! It's going suprisingly well. He did try to get more attention today though and I don't doubt that'll increase but I am leaving again soon hopefully.

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Saffron Raymie
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The thing is, if I talk about a problem or a passion and he doesn't really engage with it, I tend to do it more, and then he tells me to stop, saying he's reached 'saturation point'. Sometimes I've hardly said anything, just brought up something that interests me and he'll say he needs to masturbate so I need to be quiet.

Sometimes he'd let me watch my favourite cartoon on his TV and I'd say over and over, 'you can just let me know if you need it back,' until he said 'I know I can, it's MY TV.'

I also managed to make a new friend online for the first time in years - talking over the games console and his TV and he said he needed to masturbate so I shouldn't have, in case he was heard over the mic.

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Molias
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Ugh, this dude sounds so gross. [Frown]
I hope your plan to leave soon is successful.

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Saffron Raymie
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Thanks, Molias.

This morning I woke up an he said; 'how's you applying to university going?'

(My escape plan.)

I didn't answer but he pressed and so I said I didn't think it was any of his business. He said 'Well it is my business to know when my ex is leaving me.' I said; 'I'm not your ex.' (I don't see it like that, I said no repeatedly to his offer to be my boyfriend). So he lost his patience and said 'You. (makes a shooing gesture) Away. I'd like that. When is that happening?'

(I have already told him clearly and often that the plan is to leave here in September to do my teavher training, unless he wanted to rent a flat with me - he gave me a very clear no. (which in hindsight, is a very good thing. )

So I said, 'I will let you and your parents (they own the house) know if I would like to stay longer. I don't want to stay longer.'

He gave me some reason why he had the right to know - space or something probably - but I was already slamming my music on my headphones. (Angel Haze makes everything better).

I just... it feels like such an abuse of power. If he'd let me say no, I could have stayed on at university and have my own flat by now. Plus, he knows my parents have repeatedly kicked me out of their homes and knows I'm very worried about having nowhere to live.

It reminds of when I got worried about reproductive rights and a fews days after our condom spilt, and I said I'd have to get EC so he said, 'ah. Why does Sarah Palin hate EC again?'

It all makes sense now, but obviously I'm kicking myself for not seeing it before.

[ 06-28-2014, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Saffron Raymie ]

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Redskies
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This guy is really behaving like a prize <something unpleasant>.

His whole behaviour towards you Is an abuse of power, and it Is controlling. I do understand the "kicking yourself" feeling, and it's very natural, and pretty much everyone in a similar situation to where you are feels it too - but there's no need to feel it. Just what you've described in this thread, his whole behaviour from the beginning is one big brain-fog. When someone's actions don't match their words, when their actions are so contradictory, when their actions deny who we are and stop us being who we are, it's so, so hard to see and understand what the hell is going on. His behaviour sets you up to feel off-balance and like you're in the wrong the whole time. Too, the majority of us who would not do things like that - it's just so far from how we see the world, it's hard to understand that someone could be doing that, and we automatically try to fit their behaviour to patterns that Are part of our world.

I'm very glad that you have an escape plan. I'm also concerned about the prospect of you being in such close quarters with this guy for another two or three months. This may seem like a silly question, because it's very clear that you don't want to stay there, but: are there any other options you might have to get away from him sooner? Is getting away sooner something you feel up to thinking about? I just don't want you - or anyone - to live in that a day longer than necessary.

Is there anything we can do to help you in your escape plan and then to be able to stay gone - practical, or just cheering you on from the sidelines, or anything else?

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The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

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Saffron Raymie
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Thanks Redskies that helps very much.

And, no, unfortunately not - but I can likely sofa surf 'til then and move into uni as soon as possible.

The fabulous person who we all know and love as Jacob offered me a place for a short-stay little while, so that may help, and my best friend is also fantastic like that. I'm at hers tonight.

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Redskies
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I'm really glad to hear you have some options for not being around him or in that place (yay best friend and Jacob!) [Smile] I think sofa-surfing beats the kinds of meanness, maliciousness and spirit-sapping that you're describing.

Congratulations, too, on deciding on and pursuing uni, especially while still in this situation. Taking big steps to get out - and big steps towards furthering your own life, no less - when someone has sat on you (feel free to word-play alter that phrase all you like [Razz] ) for so long is a big deal and a thing to be proud of.

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The kyriarchy usually assumes that I am the kind of woman of whom it would approve. I have a peculiar kind of fun showing it just how much I am not.

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Saffron Raymie
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Thanks Redskies, I've been thinking about your messages a lot.

Just by showing no interest or a dislike in most things I like, he's made me dislike them too. He has this way of repeating my words when I'm trying to show him something I care about. He does this in a tone that implies he doesn't get it and never will.

He's even tried to use my feminism against me, by asking 'why are you so dependent on me for fun' when I ask if we can go out somewhere, and 'why not call your friends?' Then he says their names like he has no interest in them at all. The national domestic violence hotline said 'they don't have to actively try and stop you seeing your friends, you still isolate yourself.' We also aren't allowed visitors here.

On the subject of us moving out of his bedroom at his parents house he's been saying; 'why can't you just get a bedsit - it's so easy!'

And yesterday I was listening to a song out loud - from 'Wicked' the musical - luckily something I like that I never tried to share with him and he said 'is that from Frozen?' because I've mentioned wanting to see it. I just laughed and said no. Basically, he's trying to make friends with me again. That's not happening - not in this lifetime.

My university form is coming a long slowly so I'm trying my best to stay positive. My friend is being excellent.

He also does the double standard thing, like I called myself out not checking my white priviledge and he was like, 'yeah, that was awful.' So I said, 'but you never keep yours in check?' and he said didn't hold himself to the same standards so it was fine. I was disgusted.

I guess I relly do see why he never let me get me get know him first before he started demanding me to be his girlfriend. He was just like, 'just ask me stuff'. [Roll Eyes]

Gosh, I hate emotional abuse. It really is a brain fog, and then it all clears, bit by bit.

I guess I just wasn't subserviant enough for him? How does he ever expect a relationship to work like this?!

One of the very worse thing is that his parents side with him always and so do mine. I tried telling my parents about this stuff and they said 'yeah but he's been really good to you, letting you stay there.'

I said at dinner - when me and my parents used to go out for dinner every month - that I felt hopeless and like I was going to be stuck there forever and my dad said; 'Oh I dunno, Rachel. You might *die*.'

I have no idea in hell why those two had children. Oh yeah, my dad 'was married' so he refused to use condoms. Ah, patriarchy.

I am so angry.

[ 07-02-2014, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: Saffron Raymie ]

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Heather
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I'm so glad that you have some plans to get and keep you out of here.

What can we do, if anything, to help get you there: to help you get out of this and stay out?

One thing I might suggest is to see if you can't work a bit on trying to focus more on getting out and staying out, and a bit less on all the things he's done or is doing that upset you. You've a valid reason to be upset and angry, of course, but the more focus you put on you and the less of him? The more able you'll likely be not to get caught up in these dynamics, to get out and to be able to stay out.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Saffron Raymie
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You're right, that makes sense.

Well, I keep obsessively refreshing my emails to see if the person I need to give me a reference for university has responded to me. I only sent her an email about two hours ago though.

I also have a form coming and I'm going to speak to the council about going down on the waiting list for a council house as a back-up plan, but I'm a low-priority homeless person so there isn't a lot they can do.

I just keep wanting to speed things up but I think I may just have to distract myself more in the meantime - I've done everything I can do.

I really do feel so much better since I stopped seeing and treating him as friend though - like my thoughts are my own again, and if I like something, I just like it - it's not anything relation to him.

[ 07-02-2014, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Saffron Raymie ]

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Saffron Raymie
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You know, one thing I could to is change my phone number to stop him and my parents and some friends I don't like from being able to contact me?

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Heather
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Have you seen this yet, Saff? We did it while you were away: http://www.scarleteen.com/article/abuse_assault/the_scarleteen_safety_plan

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Saffron Raymie
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As another back-up plan, I could look into getting a better paid job so I can get somewhere by myself until I can do my teacher training, in case I do miss the dealine this year (I'm pretty scared of that).

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Saffron Raymie
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Wow! This article is really helping!

It is kinda funny how often I've been in abuse considering I've never ever wanted to be monogamous. I also really don't speak to many people and never really have. But that doesn't keep you safe. Sorry, rambling...

[ 07-02-2014, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Saffron Raymie ]

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Heather
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No worries.

Seems to me your first step, which you have already done some of, is to find somewhere else to stay and just get out of that physical space. What do you need to do to make that happen?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Saffron Raymie
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Gosh, the follow their 'rules' part. That really. really helps me. You know me, I get angry and go into 'how dare you?!' mode. I have stopped that a long time ago though. It only hurts me.

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Saffron Raymie
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That isn't something that can happen, trust me. My friends say no, my brother said no. It has literally broken my heart to find out that nobody really cares. One friend said 'definately not' and my brother says his gf needs her space. I honestly find that people just want to live alone with their partners really. My brother's main concern was a private sex life. So I stopped talking to them. I only have two people but that can only be a very short-term solution, understandibly, and I'm pretty sure one of those - my best friend - will get fed up, as she's desperate to just be alone with her husband.

But, like in in the article, we both have jobs and his parents are downstairs which does help a little, and I am out as much as I can be. I will limit my time with him as much as I can. We do have very little contact considering and I really appreciate that he leaves me alone now, if I don't respond, he rarely pushes. He also rarely strikes up a conversation, and I always give one-word answers.

He texted me saying 'what can I do to get through the next couple of months without causing any harm' and I didn't respond at all. It feels great.

As soon as I know I've got into university, the plan is to start sofa-surfing too, it will heopfully be to stay short term with two people that I know to be safe - my best mate and Jacob. he worst thing about that is that having to come back here after being away is heartbreaking and terrifying.

[ 07-02-2014, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Saffron Raymie ]

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Saffron Raymie
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Oh, we also have different sleep patterns! I tend to sync with my friend in New Jersey.

I also will always stay downstairs as soon as his parents are out, usually with earphones in and talking online to people.

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Saffron Raymie
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I think, the thing is, it's safer than both of my parents homes by miles.

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Heather
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Alas, some people are jerks. Other people just know they aren't up for helping in this kind of situation. They're not jerks, they just have and know their own limits. That obviously sucks when you really need help, but at the same time, none of us can truly be helped by anyone who does not feel able to really give it.

How about going ahead and moving forward with those short-term solutions sooner rather than later?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Saffron Raymie
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-sorry, ignore me~-

[ 07-02-2014, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Saffron Raymie ]

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

Posts: 1285 | From: England | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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