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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Relationships » really want to lose my virginity (Page 1)

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Author Topic: really want to lose my virginity
Evan
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ima 17 year old guy and i would like to stress that im not doing this because of peer pressure. that said, all of my friends except one either have girlfriends and are having sex or have the skills to get a one night stand and frequently sleep around. i would like to know how sex feels for one thing, but most of all my desperation to lose my virginity is a matter of self respect. the fact that all of my male friends have lost their virginity means it cant be very hard, yet i cannot do it. i have something wrong with me, there is something about me that makes girls not want to sleep with me. if i had sex just once i would be so happy, it would give me untold confidence and i would for the first time fee desirable. right now i feel like no girl in the wolrd wants to sleep with me, which is true because if any girl did want to have sex with me i wouldnt be a virgin anymore. i just want to prove to myself i can get laid, just once. how do i do it?
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Heather
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Evan: you've got a lot of posts going on here at once that all seem to have very similar themes. That's okay, but I wonder if you might not read the replies to all of them so far and pick up on what some of them are?

For instance, it's been mentioned in all of your threads so far that you seem to be thinking about women in a way that is probably off-putting to quite a lot of them. In a word, it seems to me that you're thinking of them as people who exist to either give you what you want or withhold what you want, for you, very exclusively, not for them. Do you know what I mean by that?

I also think you're forgetting that there is someone else involved in sex with a partner, not just you. Wanting to have sex with someone else for what sound like reasons that are ONLY about you is pretty iffy business: it kind of makes that other person into a total non-person; into an object that is only a means to your own ends. That's something else that other people, especially emotionally healthy people, are going to tend to pick up on and steer far clear of, because it's wise to steer clear of someone thinking and acting like that.

Here's something to know: having sex with someone probably isn't going to give you what you think it is. It certainly is not at all likely to magically fix a low self-image or lack of confidence. I know you clearly think it will, but I have to tell you that it's very unlikely it will do that. You're hardly the first person who thought it would, and wouldn't be anything close to the first to find out it doesn't. Those issues are really about you, and really, only you can work on them and probably should before you get that intimately involved with someone else, who very much is a whole person, not just a means to an end.

Is any of this making sense to you?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Evan
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im sorry, i got a bit carred away but i thought more posts might = more helpful answers. sex isnt just about love, youre obviously not the kind of person to sleep wit justayone but there ae many girls who are happy to have one night stands. i would be using them as a means to an end, as would they. we both want sex, we both get sex. how is that unhealthy?
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Heather
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Please don't make assumptions about me. Really, my sex life isn't something it's sound for people who don't know me to make assumptions about, especially since people are usually wrong, as they often are when they make sexual assumptions about anyone. But what my personal sex life has and has not involved has little bearing on my work here. I'm very well aware that the world is a sexually diverse place: it's something I remind people of many times in a day.

But here's the deal about what you're asking: if you want to have sex for your own ego, to feel better about yourself, and that's your sole or main motivation, is the other person okay with that? If they are, then you're right, that doesn't have to be a problem or an issue. However, while some folks will be okay with that, I'd say it's not that common for people who want to have casual sex to want to with that agenda.

In other words, someone deeply desiring to be sexual with you (and I mean with you, not just being there to provide the body parts you want), and you desiring same is one thing. But when someone comes to a sexual opportunity with very low self-esteem and a lot of desperation, as often goes with those kinds of motives, you'll find -- as you seem to have made clear you've been finding -- not a lot of people will actually feel sexual desire, since those things often tend to be big turn-offs.

Perhaps you might want to think some more about what a one-night stand really means or could mean? In other words, it sounds like you might be assuming everyone who comes to that will have the same or similar motives you do, when, in fact, people can have as many different motivations for that kind of sex as they can for sex in other frameworks and kinds of relationships.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Evan
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i dont see why my motives matter, though i know my reasons are not usual.
if a girl is wanting a one night stand for pleasure then i can provide that, if shes doing it to feel good about herself then thats fine too, why does it matter that im doing it for a different reason? lets not complicate things, its just a one time sex thing with a girl ill probably never see again.
and tbh im not sure how to be sexually desirable

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Heather
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I'm going to be as gently blunt as I can: more times than not, when someone is only having sex to try and validate themselves, they're not usually the best sexual partners ever. In other words, it's awfully common for someone in that headspace to be so in their own stuff that the other person doesn't wind up having a great time, in large part because someone that mired in their own stuff doesn't usually do a very good job focusing on the other person.

You know, whether any of this really matters or not is totally up to you. By all means, if you're consenting and the other person is consenting, you've got the basic covered, and in general, it's going to be no harm, no foul.

But if you are invested in having positive, and by all means, awesome, sexual experiences, and having those who have them with you also having a great experience, then you will need to consider a lot more than those kinds of lowest common denominators. On the other hand, if you and the other person are going for whatever-sex, or sex that's likely to be sub-par, or something you both just do to do it, then it matters less. Know what I mean?

There's no how-to on "being sexually desireable," because what elicits feelings of desire in people really varies. However, there are often some common threads, and feeling desire for someone is more than just saying yes or not saying no, or being so wasted someone doesn't care very much. And in general, it's pretty safe to say that more people tend to express feeling sexual desire for people who think well of themselves, have confidence and show investment in others than those who lack those things or aren't feeling them.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Evan
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well ill be prett blunt about this too, i dont want to come off as an arsehole but im not interested in having a spectacular first time, i just want to ge it over with to prove that i can get laid if i want to. im also not interested in pursuing anothr one night stand afer losing my virginity.
if i developed a relationship with a girl and it got sexual i would of course try to be the best sexual partner i could, and would put her experience as just as important as mine. however when im at a party and im just looking to hook up with a girl im not really too bothered about how good it is, all that matters is actually doing it.

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Heather
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So, are you saying, then, that the girl in this scenario's experience, what her experience was like having sex with you, that does or does not matter to you?

I hear you saying this is all about you, over and over, including that this is about proving to yourself (and maybe friends?) that you can get laid, which is totally about you and others, not the person who would be having sex with you.

Does that sound right or not?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Evan
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well in all honesty, it would matter to me but i wouldnt lose any sleep if i was told i was terrible at it and im not going to go out of my way to enhance the feeling of a 5 minute meaningless fumble with a girl who wont remember me in the morning.
and i hear that a lot, but no its not about what my friends think, its all about proving to myself

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Heather
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So, back up there, you talked about how this potential partner would be experiencing pleasure, but as I understand you now, that's just not something you're invested in.

So, what you just need to know and might want to think about then, is if that's going to likely result in what you want. If you don't want for sex with whoever this person is to be meaningful to them or you, or to be something they enjoy, but just something they say yes to, you just have to know that's most likely what you'll get.

If that's what you want and also what they do (they don't want any meaning or any investment from you in their pleasure, all they want from you is five minutes of in-and-out), again, no harm and no foul, even though that is a pretty unlikely scenario: it's safe to say very few people want neither of those things from any kind of sex with someone else.

I'd just make sure if and when that is what someone else also wants and is down with, it's really is what you want, especially given what you've voiced about how you want to feel good about yourself from this, which isn't so easy to feel when things are set up that way. I also don't believe you'd not lose sleep if someone thought you a terrible sex partner, given what you've said about how, for you, part of your motivation to have sex is to bump your sense of self up.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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(Just FYI, Evan, I had this feeling you might feel a bit better talking to a guy about some of this, so I asked a fave colleague of mine in the UK to stop by in the morning and chat with you if you'd like. My apologies if I assumed wrongly about that, so when he does, if you don't want to gab with him, you obviously don't have to.)

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Evan
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well i wouldnt feel bad bout being a bad partner because i wouldnt really be trying. i dont really know how else to say this, but to put it very simply i just want to have sex with someone, i really dont care who she is, how she feels about me, how good it is or anything all that matters to me is actually having sex
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Justin from Bish
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Hi Evan

I'm Justin, UK sex educator. I visited Hull when I was about 9 and have mug from the Humber Bridge.

Want to run some of this stuff past me? If so can you do it here, I don't want to be chasing you all over this message board.

Justin

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Evan
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okay, basically i want to have sex but i cant figure out how to get a girl to want to sleep with me
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Justin from Bish
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Hi Evan.

Understood.

From the other response you gave to my reply on the other post it seems to be that you want to have sex in order to get it over with. So that you can say 'you've done it.' Would that be a fair summary of your position?

Justin

(PS if you want to keep talking to me can we do this on this thread from now on).

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Evan
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yes i want to get it over with, but not so that i can say ive done, i dont care what other people think. im doing it for me, so i gain a bit of confidence and so i can tell myself that at least one girl in the world liked me even a little, and i can get laid if i want
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Heather
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Can we talk a little about what you keep saying: "I can get laid if I want?"

Because he's the thing: very, very few people can literally have sex with someone else just because they want to or whenever they want to, because there's always that someone else involved.

Sometimes when you want to have sex, as you've been experiencing, there won't be others you encounter who want to have sex with you. other times, you may have a sexual partner, but they're not in the mood for sex when you are, or be able to engage in sex with you, for whatever reason.

So, if what you expect sex to prove is that you can "get laid if you want," no incident of sex can prove that, because that's very, very unlikely to be the case, not for you, not for anyone.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Evan
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youre right in saying that and i never looked at it that way, but the point remains that most people i know have sex or have had sex
maybe they cant get laid on tap, but they have done it at some point. they wanted to have sex and they were able to get a girl to have sex with them
ive never done it, and i dont know why. is it just a looks thing, am i too shy? im certainly not a horrible person. ive had the same opportunities as they have, why is it they get sex and i dont?

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Justin from Bish
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Hi Evan

I'm going to suggest to you that you may need to work on yourself a bit. I think that you are stuck in a bit of a vicious circle here: you feel that having sex will give you the confidence you need, but you probably lack the confidence that you need in order to have sex with someone.

Wouldn't it be great if you could get the confidence that you need without the crappy meaningless sex and make your first time sex really good with someone you actually like?

Imagine if you could do that, seriously imagine yourself in that position. How would it look? What would you be wearing? What would she look like? How did you meet? What music is playing? How do you smell? What have you done with your hair? What is she into? How long have you known each other? What sexy stuff have you done before?

So I suggest that you spend a bit of time working on yourself. Instead of looking around at all the women who you think don't want to have sex with you, or comparing yourself to your mates who are all having sex (they might not be having a great time by the way), think about what you can offer someone.

I think it would be great for you to have a hard think about this and then write a few sentences for yourself, and then maybe even on here, about who you are, what you're like as a person, what people say about you, how you feel when you are on the top of your game. It's called an affirmation.

Now this isn't easy. We aren't used to thinking about ourselves in a positive way let alone talking about ourselves in a positive way (especially in the UK, it feels). So I'm going to give you some resources to try out. (Apologies for it being a bit me me me.)

On my website I've got this post http://bishuk.com/2010/06/11/big-up-yourself/ which is about thinking about yourself in a positive way. Have a look, think about some of the words that might apply to you, or think of other positive words. Then think of some examples of why those words apply to you, or what other people say about you in relation to those words. Don't dodge it by being ironic. Do it seriously. Write it down or make a poster.

A lot of people think that you can feel better about yourself by thinking more positively and doing things that are more positive. This is about self-esteem http://bishuk.com/2009/10/01/good-self-esteem-get-it/ which I hope gives you an idea about this. I reckon that if are a bit more positive about you then you might sub-consciously portray yourself better.

Attractive people aren't necessarily good looking people. They are often the kind of people who smile, they stand tall, they make people around them feel great and included, they're the kind of person people want to be around. You can be that person. Like you, but at your very best.

So that you can see how this is going to help you to find someone to have sex with try this post http://bishuk.com/2010/02/14/how-to-tell-someone-that-you-fancy-or-like-or-love-them/ there's a link on there to a fantastic website supporting an amazing book called The Buzz http://www.thebuzzbook.co.uk . I bet your college has a copy somewhere, if they do then please read it. It will give you insight into who you are, what your strengths are and what you can work on.

My theory is that you can get this confidence that you need from not having sex and if you can do that then you will have sex when you want to when you feel ready and with someone who (for however long) rocks your world.

Does this make sense?

Hope this helps

Justin

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Evan
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im sure i could gain confidence in ways aside from having sex but having sexwould give me exra confidence. to be honest i dont really care about waiting for a girl i actually like or anything like that, i dont mind losing my virginity with some crappy meaningless sex. id much rather lose my virginity today with a girl i dont like and it be terrible than with a girl i do like and have it be a great experience a year from now
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Justin from Bish
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Evan, take it from Heather, me and everyone else who's given you advice on here: no it wouldn't. It's not the answer that you want but it's the right answer.

Think it through.

Justin

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Evan
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well even still, i would still like to have sex.
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Captain Girl
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Sex is a totally reasonable thing to want. Generally, it's considered to be a fun experience. If, as you say, you'd like to have sex with someone, you're going to have to put in the work to get there. Say hello. Introduce yourself. Do fun things (that are not sex), and have conversations (with subjects besides sex). Figure out whether you like them enough to want to experience their personality at really close range, and give them the chance to find that out about you.

Once you've done all that, you'll be a lot closer to what you say you want.

And yes, I know, you don't care about all that, you just want to get laid. I get that. But the stuff I'm talking about - the talking, the listening, the giving a damn - comes with.

Finally: don't take your friends so seriously. People lie about their sex lives all the time. They generally aren't having as much sex as they claim to be having, it isn't all as mind-blowing as they say it is, and it is nowhere near as easy for them to come by as they would like everyone to believe.

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Djuna
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Hi Evan! I hope you're doing well today. [Smile]

I've been reading through some of your posts, and I'm hearing that you're not really interested in a relationship - you're more looking for a one night stand with a girl so that you can say (whether to others or yourself) that you've had sex, is that right?

I support that, I think it's a valid choice. Often we're in a place where we're not wanting relationships, but are wanting sex. So I understand what you're saying.

What I want to say is that sex can make us feel good about ourselves - you used the example of looking at yourself in the mirror. However, sex can also make us feel pretty low at times. What I'm saying is that sex is a powerful thing, right? Now, unfortunately having sex once isn't likely to improve someone's self esteem overnight - it doesn't really work that way, although it gets shown like that in movies a lot.

But if you understand that this isn't something that's going to give you a lot of confidence that wasn't there before, and you just want to have sex to know what it feels like, like you said - and I think I'm hearing that you feel on the outside of something that your friends have done or are doing, too - then I think I understand what you're saying. Is that right?

In terms of a one night stand, it might be helpful to think about both what you're wanting from that experience and what the other person is wanting. In my experience, people who are looking for one night stands aim to have them with people who are likely to treat them well. For example, here's a list of things I might look for:
  • someone who I am attracted to
  • someone who seems attracted to me
  • someone who talks to me respectfully and who seems happy to be talking to me
  • someone who is responsive and who seems to be paying attention to me (that is, someone who isn't drunk, bored or falling asleep, which would indicate they don't want to have sex with me or they're not going to be particularly able to).
  • someone who I think is likely to want to make any sex we have pleasurable for both of us
The list of things you might be looking for may look different, and maybe you'd like to tell us what some of the things you're looking for are. The hypothetical other person - the person you want to have sex with based on your list of things you look for - probably has their own list in their head too. It's pretty typical that people are at least looking for someone they're attracted to who appears to show interest in them as a person.

So you can make sex more likely to happen by showing interest in people's lives - what music they like, or what they want to do after high school, or what they're going to do at the weekend, or did last weekend.

The reason I look for people who are interested in me as a person is that it's a sign that a person will be interested in me having a good time with them sexually, which means my sexual wants and needs are going to get met. Equally, by showing interest in them as a person I'm showing that if sex happens, I'm interested in their pleasure too, which means their sexual wants and needs are going to get met.

When during that sex I put the work in to make sure my partner enjoys themselves and their needs are met (by doing things like asking what they'd like me to do with them, or what activities are things they usually enjoy sexually), I find that I enjoy myself more (because helping people get off is a lot of fun, and they are then sometimes more eager to get me off, too).

As well, gossip is common in somewhere relatively small like a high school or a college campus. If I've treated someone well, and done my best to make sure they had a good time with me, then they might tell their friends (you don't ask them to, but they will if they want to). That means that other people might end up knowing I'm a considerate partner, and might think well of me, whether that means they want to get to know me as a friend or perhaps if they're looking for sex they might consider asking me in future.

However, if I haven't treated someone well, and I didn't show any interest in their experience, it's likely that they'll their friends that too, which I don't want to happen because I like being known as someone considerate (sexually and personally, too). Know what I mean?

So, I didn't mean to write loads and loads, and it seems like I have done. [Razz] But I wanted to chime in with my experiences of the kind of thing it seems like you're looking for, and why I think it's important to consider what the other person wants. Do you have any thoughts on any of that?

(For what it's worth, I think you definitely seem to have a very likeable personality, which is why I took the time to read back through all your posts and to write you a response.) [Smile]

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In a strange room, before you are emptied for sleep, what are you. And when you are filled with sleep you never were. I dont know what I am. I dont know if I am or not... how often have I lain beneath rain on a strange roof, thinking of home.

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Evan
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thank you you were both very helpful
captain girl-i can assure you my friends are not lying about anything. i think its perfectly reasonable to assume 17/18 year olds in relationships are having sex and the ones who are single have reputations as players. its hard, i am the only virgin in the group and i feel like i dont belong. i know they all like me or we wouldnt be friends, but theyre much cooler in almost every respect. im sure many people my age are not having sex too, but i dont have any virgin friends. well maybe one or 2
and patrick vienna, you can never write too much.
i guess its true, maybe sex wont improve my confidence massivley but i think it will help me feel better about myself. i dont care what other people think of me, most people know im a virgin and i dont care, and im not the kind of person who would brag to all his friends about sex because i personally think its between me and her. im mostly doing it for myself. i want a healthy sex life without the pressures of a relationship, i want to experience sex and i want to feel like to some girls i am desirable.
my checklist is as follows

-someone i feel some kind of physical attraction to
-someone who is not a virgin
-someone nice
however i have found with experience that i lack the bad boy appeal to get a one night stand, and the looks to get a relationship so im kind of a lost cause

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Heather
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Even: just so you know, quite a lot of studies have been done around young people's sexuality and what they report to peers over the years, and they unilaterally find HUGE divides between what friends say they are doing with sex to friends and what they actually are. So, while some of your friends may well be being honest, it's very, very unlikely all of them are being so.

You probably also are not the only person of all of the people you know who has not had a sexual partner (in fact, you brought up a friend in one of your posts who is not choosing to have sex expressly, so there's at least one other person).

I also think you might want to reevaluate making cool = having sex. Sure, some cool people are. others aren't. And some who are seriously aren't cool.

The other thing I'd suggest looking at is this:
quote:
i dont care what other people think of me
I think it's very clear you do. If you didn't, it wouldn't matter if anyone was or wasn't attracted to you, did or did not want to have sex with you, and you've said many times now it does matter a LOT to you. You even said it again right here: "i want to feel like to some girls i am desirable."

That's okay, it's okay for it to matter what other people think, but I think denying that matters probably isn't going to help you out.

I really don't think not being a "bad boy" or not looking a certain way is what's holding you back here. I'm not going to say again and again what I think is, I think I've said it enough already. But I do think maybe not really considering some of the things some of us have brought up that we do think are holding you back, and sticking with these kinds of simplistic ways of thinking about this stuff have been, so again, I'd encourage you to really try and do some mental stretching here and consider that some of your theories might not be so sound or true.

Lastly, again, I'd go back to some of what Bish mentioned, which is trying hard to not just think of sex with someone else as about you and what YOU want, but to also think about what you really have to offer someone else right now, especially when you are feeling so low about yourself and are so focused on your own wants and needs.

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Evan
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well i can assure you my friends arent lying, youll have to take my word for it but the majority of them are.
okay, so i care that girls arent attracted to me but i dont care if people think im a virgin
its a lot simpler than what people on here are making it out to be. i want to have sex. really, i dont see how my reasons matter. and yes i dont care about the other persons experience. selfish? yes but thats just how i feel. i would also like a reltionship but thats another matter, beggars cant be choosers as they say

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Heather
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So, it appears we're at an impasse.

You tend to disagree with what we're saying and suggesting here. That's okay, you get to do that. You asked for advice: we gave it. You get to take it or leave it.

However, your existing framework and strategies also aren't working for you to get you what you want. We're pretty sure that they're a big part of why. We also have some fairly major philosophical difference between us: we think that in partnered sex, it very much matters what everyone's experience is and that it's important for everyone involved to have some investment in the positive experience of everyone involved. You seem to be saying that you don't feel that way.

Where does that leave us?

Well, you can keep going about this the way you have been, including thinking about it the same ways. You may well still get what you want eventually that way: we couldn't possibly predict that.

Or, you could try doing things differently, which involves thinking about them differently, and see if you wind up with different results.

There's no right or wrong answer here (so long as sex is fully consensual for everyone if and when it happens), just what you choose.

However, if you feel like what you want to choose is to stick with where you're at and the way you've been thinking and going about this, there's really little else we can do here. Continuing to suggest what we are when you're not open to it or disagree with it doesn't make much sense for either of us.

[ 05-27-2011, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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KittenGoddess
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quote:
Originally posted by Evan Smith:
i want to have sex. really, i dont see how my reasons matter. and yes i dont care about the other persons experience. selfish? yes but thats just how i feel.

I'm late to the party here...but wanted to suggest something to you (in addition to what Heather and others have already said here) regarding this particular statement about motives or reasons.

You really want to understand that our motives (our reasons for wanting what we want do) come out to other people AND those motives quite often do matter to others. So if your primary motivation to have sex is about you simply having sex and you don't care who it's with and how the experience feels both for you and for that other person...then that's the message that you're putting out there to others, whether you realize it or not. In the things you say to them, the way you carry yourself, the way you approach them, THAT is the message that you are sending out in your verbal and nonverbal communication. I'm not saying that those reasons are right or wrong, just that if those are your reasons than that is a part of the message that you are sending to others (and that they are evaluating when deciding how they feel about you).

Perhaps it might help to imagine yourself walking up to someone and saying, "Hi there! I'd really like to have sex with you. I don't particularly care who it's with, nor do I care about you. It doesn't matter to me if I enjoy the sex or if you enjoy it either. I just want to do it. So how about it?" Like it or not, if that is your reasoning, then that is the message that you are sending out to people...even if you're not saying it explicitly or consciously.

I'm not commenting on whether your reasoning is right or wrong (it doesn't particularly matter how I, as an individual, feel about your reasoning). Just that reasoning influences communication.

If that's the message that you're sending out, then as Heather noted in your other thread: "It seems the answer is that you can a) find someone else who feels the exact same way you do and just wants to get sex "over with" for themselves, too, b) find someone who sees having sex with you as something they likely won't get much out of for themselves, but as a way to help you out and who wants to do that, or c) you can just have the dumb luck of running into someone who wants to have sex at the same time you do and is either okay with it mostly being about you and not really being about them, or flat-out doesn't care about their own experience." If that is the message you keep sending out, then those are your most likely outcomes.

If you're not happy with the message you are sending out or if it's not working out well for you, the way to change that is to change some part of your motivations and/or reasons. Our motivations (our reasons) CAUSE our behaviors and communication to be what they are. Nobody is saying that making that change means that you have to start looking for a "serious" relationship instead of a casual one. But rather that in order to change your message (if that's what you want), you're going to have to reconsider the way you're thinking about other people and about sex.

[ 05-27-2011, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: KittenGoddess ]

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LifeEnColor
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Hey, I'm even later to the party than KittenGoddess, but I've been reading through your posts and threads here and I wanna throw in some stuff too.

You say you want to get sex over with to give you a self-confidence boost. You don't care if it's good. You could care less if your partner got any pleasure out of it at all. You don't care that she'd tell you that you were awful. Well I'm sorry, but I strongly believe that this is wrong and some of it untrue.

As someone who was personally used as a 'means to an end' for one of my first sexual experiences, I can say that most, if not all girls, will run for the hills when they catch onto what you're communicating. Especially if it's a one night stand. People don't have those because they don't care if they'll like it not. They do it because they want to have good, fun, consensual sex. Maybe not mind blowing, but still enjoyable for both parties so they go home (whose ever home that might be) with a smile.

You say that it wouldn't matter how terrible the experience would be--you just want it over with. I don't think thats true. Not at all. If you want sex for self confidence, and your partner tells you that you were awful...where does the self confidence boost come in?? I don't know about you, but when I'm told that my performance (in anything, not just sex) was terrible, the LAST thing I'm going to be feeling for a while is self confidence. You may think it wouldn't effect you, but that's a hard thing to ignore and not care about. Even if, at the time, you brushed it off, it could have lasting consequences for future sexual experiences. Would you really want to be getting into bed with a new girl and suddenly remember your first time (maybe the last time before this new situation) when your partner was left unsatisfied and then told you what she thought? Negative thoughts have a nasty way of jumping to the forefront of our minds when we least want them to.

I have to say, some of things you've posted are a little disturbing to me. As I mentioned, I used to only be a means to an end for my partner. It left me feeling unsatisfied, upset, and hesitant to begin another sexual relationship. Even if you don't care about her pleasure, at least consider some of that. Vaginal sex for most women isn't the Holy Grail of pleasure its made out to be. Very few women enjoy it by itself and even fewer reach orgasm by it. So if all you want is an 'in-out-in-out' repeat experience, odds are very, very low your partner will get any pleasure out of it. So please, just consider the other person's feelings in this matter. If you some how manage to come by a woman that meets your attractive-ness standards, agrees to sex, doesn't mind that you don't care about her pleasure, and that you don't care if the experience is awful, well...use a condom. But I guarantee, your chances of getting a willing partner are going to be loads higher if you take everyone's advice here. It will lead to a much more satisfying, healthy, and enjoyable sexual experience for both parties.

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Evan
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okay, lets assume i do change my attitude and care about her experience too. how will she know? i mean i know women talk about stuff like intuition and such, but whether or not i am a selfless or selfich lover, she has no way of finding out until after the sex so how will she know?
oh, and the confidence boost would come from a girl actually wanting to sleep with me. right now i dont have much confidence because i get rejected so much and am the only one of my friends to not have the ability to get laid, once i have sex that lost confidence will come back
and Heather, im not ignoring your advice, i just dont know to take it. i guess i was kind of hoping for a bunch of guys whove had lots of one night stands to come on here and teach me how to pick up girls etc, tell me how they did it etc

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Djuna
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Well, I'm both male and someone who's had some one night stands - perhaps a lot, I don't know what you'd consider "a lot". [Wink]

In terms of people picking up on what your attitude is in terms of sex, I think that shows in the rest of your behaviour. So, showing an interest in someone's personality is good - how they're feeling, what they're doing, what their interests are and so on. Even if you're only looking for a one-night stand, it can be worth putting some energy in over a couple of conversations first, whether in person or by text.

The point is that when you show interest in someone's life (and the easiest way to do that is to genuinely be interested), it's a suggestion that you may eventually also be interested in them being happy and getting their needs met sexually. It's also a good idea to then actually be willing to talk to them during or before sex about what it is that they want, what sexual activities they enjoy doing and so on.

Even if that's a one-night stand, it doesn't take long to ask what a person would like to happen - and equally there, you get to say what you would like to happen - and that way you both get better sex, to boot. It's not so much about being selfless and not selfish, it's about being both, really, and that way you both get more of what you want. Too, I hear you're not looking for a relationship, but it is somewhat common for one-night stands to become two- or three-night stands if people find they've had a good experience and would like a repeat. [Smile]

As far as "picking up" girls goes, I think going from meeting someone at a party to having sex that night (other than being a little faster than I personally like things to move, most of the time) is quite difficult. It's rare to develop chemistry with someone so quickly that sex right away feels like something they both want to do. It's much easier to set your sights on meeting people at parties - and there, your interest is on personalities, not necessarily on sex - and seeing who chemistry develops with, and who might be worth staying in touch with.

Does any of that make any sense? [Smile]

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In a strange room, before you are emptied for sleep, what are you. And when you are filled with sleep you never were. I dont know what I am. I dont know if I am or not... how often have I lain beneath rain on a strange roof, thinking of home.

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Evan
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hmm but that sounds very long term, i can understand the conversation thing but the texting implie thisis going to take mor than one night. im not interested in developing any kind of relationship like that

I mean, im sure we would talk before hand and i would dfinitley show interest, but i thought one night stands were more spontaneous than discussing the sex beforehand? should i just ask her to sleep with me?

i think what youre suggesting is more like friends with benefits. by one night stand i mean when i meet a girl at a club, bar or whatever and sleep withher that very night when were in a drunkn state. what youre suggesting is becoming friends and plannng the ex down to a fine point. that could take weeks. if i wnated to wait that long id just go out with a desperate girl for a fortnight and have sex that way.

No, I dont think it is that dificult. obviously i cant do it, but plenty of people do. sure theres chemistry, mostly from looks which is why i fail. another factor is the lack of inhibitions
due to drink

Parties are defintiely a good place to meet girls, for either a relationship or a fwb like youre suggesting but i just want sex, plain and simple. it doesnt have to be mindblowing or anything, i just want a kind of awkward drunken fumble with a girl i wont remember or ever see again

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Jacob at Scarleteen
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Is that really sex though?

Something without repercussions with someone that you won't have to remember...

Even the "awkward drunken fumble" doesn't happen for no reason... people are attracted to something about each other, or people make each other feel special... which even if it's for a short amount of time is about caring less about getting sex and more about the person. For me sex isn't something one person does, but that two people want... if you don't care about the other person, then it's not really sex you want... it's like "half-sex" or something, you just want your half of it.

So even if people are completely drunk while eager about casual sex, they are still more likely to want to do that with somebody who cares about who they ARE and who want more than half-sex with someone.

So weirdly, the only way to get what you want, is to want something else. The only way to end up in the position to be having good sex, and the type of casual sex that you want to be having, is to care about who it's with... to care about who it's with, might make it a little less random... but also contains a slightly different attitude to sex.

I think I have felt a little bit like you have felt in the past... but I think actually in hindsight, I wasn't really ready to be having the sex I thought I wanted, as crap as I felt, I realise that what is really good about fun/safe/casual/sex is being able to share some confidence and some passion about someone else... not trying to fill a lack of confidence and to build an image of myself I wanted to see, but wasn't.

It's not what turns people on... but importantly it's also not good for you... the longer you make your idea of what sex might be the thing that will help you feel better about yourself, the longer you'll avoid finding the things that will make you feel better... and as if as a happy side-effect, but not the main point, make you more likely to have good sex and end up in a situation where that can happen.

You also aren't likely to get far in caring about the people that you could have sex with if you so easily dismiss somebody who IS into sex as "desperate" that's really not hot at all... and not very nice.

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Evan
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well, my penis will go into her vagina so yes, it is sex

but im not the sort of person a girl would usually be attracted to. obviously i could change my attitude, people have suggested that i need to care more about the girl, and act interested, make it seem like shell enjhoy the sex etc

but really the alcohol should take care of a lot of it shouldnt it? People do get lid spontaneously sometimes
But im not in it for those reasons. Yes it would boost my confidence but thats not the only reason, mostly its just for fun. doesnt have to be mindblowing

I wasnt saying girls who want sex are desperate, im saying that there are desperate girls in college that i could date if i wanted, but i dont want to because theyre not my type and would be too much effort

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