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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Relationships » I just want to help him (Maddy)

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Author Topic: I just want to help him (Maddy)
PrettyInAnyThingButPink
Neophyte
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I got round to setting up this thing
we only have one computer though so if i log into this thing i gotta log him out if you get me
hes gone out again more than likely to get drunk again!
i was reading what you said to Harvey he comes across stubborn and a pain in the *** but he is totally and utterly freaked out by every thing to do with counselling ive tryed and tryed and tryed to get him to give it another chance i said id go with him if it helps but he just shuts down on me and then we argue cause he wont talk to me or any one and then he gets depressed and gets drunk and gets even more depressed about every thing i try and help him but i have to look after my daughter her safety and happyness is the mane thing to me
i love him so much but im at a loss of what to do to help him
Maddy
X

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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Heather
Executive Director & Founder
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Hi, Maddy, glad to see you again.

You know, it might be helpful to hear a bit about the history of your relationship together from when it started until now?

Also, I know what Harvey's experience of the pregnancy and parenting have been like, but I don't know about yours. Telling me a bit about this might also be helpful.

As well, has he had problems with drinking right from the start? Has he ever tried to stop drinking, perhaps with the help of a program like AA?

When you two have these arguments, it sounds like you fight a bit then he shuts down or goes out. Is that right?

How are YOU? How are you doing with your needs? Do you have other supportive people for you, or for both of you you can call on for help?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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PrettyInAnyThingButPink
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I met harvey in college we did the same course we knew each other for about a year before we went out it was fun wasnt serious it was exciting it was new
after a couple of months it got serious but it was still fun it was still good when i found out i was pregnant and the the pregnancy he was my rock he was there when i didnt think i could cope he was there helping me through it. The only time things started to get hard was when his dad started going down hill, it stressed him out he got short tempered. When his dad died he didnt show any sort of emotion he bottled it up and wouldnt talk about it, he sorta kept it together untill Emily was born things where fine for about a month, he would go out get drunk smoke hash he would shout rather than talk to me he pretty much blanked out our daughter like she wasnt there. Now hes either so low he wont talk to me or hes so angry that he'll just shout and smash things up or gets drunk
being pregnant so young wasnt something tha id planned and i found it hard and i depended on harvey alot but being a parent i love i love it! my daughter who is so beautiful and innocent and is like a pick me up when things are hard with harvey i just cuddle her and she makes things better, dont get me wrong its hard at the same time but when i walk in a room and her face lights up it makes all the sleepless nights worth it! i think it makes it harder for harvey sometimes cause he hasnt bonded with her.
he hasnt always drunk he did at parties or if we went out but when his dad died he hit the bottle hard really hard a year ago i would get calls from people saying he'd been taken to hospital because he drank so much! he hasnt tryed to stop.
yeah when argue he'll just walk out tell me he doesnt give a shit about me or Emily and just go out and drink.
Im fine its hard watching him go through all this cause i love him. but im fine my mum and my aunt and my sister help me with emily and harveys mum and sister come round to see and help whenever they can

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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Heather
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Okay.

One thing I am going to say -- and I'm okay saying it if Harvey is reading this, too -- is that someone yelling at you, smashing up things is not only unhealthy, it is abusive behavior. And for you and your daughter to be safe, physically and emotionally, that HAS to stop. If it can't or does not, I am going to advise you (even though I certainly feel for Harvey) to consider living apart from him. I hear that you are worried about him, but these are sound reasons to be worried about YOURSELF and your kid.

Is that something you can at least consider, and have a safety plan if you need it, such as having somewhere you know you and Emily can go at any time and stay for a while if you need to?

This is also something I think is EXTREMELY important you bring up when you two start family counseling.

I hear, very much, how much you love him, and it's clear things have not always been this way. The death of a parent is a very hard thing, all the more so a suicide, all the more so with a parent who wasn't any kind of parent at all. But you aren't going to be able to "fix" Harvey. What you can do, however, is pursue things like the counseling together, support what he does for care for himself, and set firm limits on things improving and him making efforts to change some of his behaviors. Those limits are good for all of you, not just you.

Limits might be things like that he DOES need to start a program for drinking, he DOES need to commit to counseling together for a given period of time, and the yelling in the house (and throwing things) DOES need to stop. Obviously, if you're doing any of that, that means you quitting with that, too.

I'd also say, as Sarah is talking about with him in his post, that setting up some agreed-upon time Harvey spends with Emily so he CAN bond to her is another agreement I think the two of you need to make.

How does all of that sound to you? Have either of you yet talked to the NHS about family counseling? If not, can you make an agreement about maybe making those calls tomorrow together?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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PrettyInAnyThingButPink
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I have my mums house ive left a couple of times before because harvey has just gone to far and i wouldnt ever put my daughter in danger,
yeah ive done it all before called up the NHS about it fixed it up and harvey will change his mind and wont go wont compramise or hes to hung over to get his arse out of bed
i want him to bond with emily but the only thing that scares me about it is he just zones out and shes getting older now its not like you can just lay her on the bed or the couch because it will get to the point where she'll just roll of or get hurt im not stopping him from doing any thing with Emily but but he cant just ignore her when she crys like he does
thats the only thing that worrys me about it.

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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Heather
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I'm, heading out the door, but I will be on and off tomorrow if you want to talk more. You're also welcome to talk to any of the volunteers or other users about this, Maddy.

I'm glad to hear you have some safety nets and feel comfortable using them.

I agree that it can be so frustrating to try and help someone and have them not respond. This time, I think perhaps Harvey needs to be the one to arrange the calls and appointments, or perhaps you can do it jointly.

I understand concerns about Emily's safety, by all means. What I'd suggest is trying (not just you, him too) to spend more time as a family together, doing things together. Perhaps you all might get out a bit, even for a walk when he's done with work? Or maybe you can take turns reading to Emily at night while you are both in the same room?

This might be a good resource to pass on to him, too: http://londondad.com/home.php

As well, it might be helpful for YOU to find some support groups of your own. Are you interested in more external supports for yourself or for all of you as a family? What area of London are you in?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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PrettyInAnyThingButPink
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Harvey showed me the post thing about spending time with Emily he said he was going to play with Emily. but he went out last night met up with his friends and got drunk AGAIN oh my gosh his drinking drives me mad! but this morning when he eventualy woke up for work in an amazingly bad mood he completely ignored her...lituarly stepped over her! im not stopping him from doing any thing at all with emily but he doesnt seem to want to!
I go to a group every week with Emily for young mums
we live in east corydon.

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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Heather
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I think it's pretty clear, especially given his family history, as this does tend to run in families, that Harvey is an alcoholic. I brought some of that up with him, but it is not something we have fully addressed just yet.

What does that mean for you? It means your partner and Emily's Dad has a disease which, if it's going to improve, he's going to need to address and treat. It means that if he chooses not to do that, you are going to be living with an alcoholic -- if you choose to stay with him -- and this kind of behavior will likely be a constant.

What I would suggest for YOU in this respect is seeing what services for support YOU can have in dealing with that, informing yourself, and making choices around it.

Here's the best resource I found in your area:
Croydon Alcohol Counselling Service
28 Wellesley Road
Croydon
Surrey
CR0 2AD
tel: 020 8667 9500

I'd suggest calling and finding out what they have available for the family of alcoholics (that's you), and what treatments options they have for alcoholics themselves, just so you know. This is also something I would absolutely bring up when you start your family therapy. Are either of you able to start making some of those calls today?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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PrettyInAnyThingButPink
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Whoa no hang on he isnt dependent on it
he can function without it he drinks alot but cause hes depressed not because hes an alcoholic.
maybe i dont understand the hole meaning of being an alcoholic

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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Heather
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Honestly, it seems pretty clear to me he is dependent on it: it's what he seems to always do when he is stressed, his drinking also seems to be a constant and at a high level. It also seems like he has NOT gone without it for quite some time, and he does not tend to describe his drinking himself as something that feels in his control: quite the opposite.

Being a "functional" or "high-functioning" alcoholic (though I'm not so sure he is given some of what both of you have shared about his drinking and related behavior) doesn't mean someone isn't an alcoholic.

Why don't I give you some information on alcoholism to look at, and then we can talk about this more if you like.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/faq/f/prob_faq3.htm
http://www.aa.org/lang/en/catalog.cfm?origpage=281&product=22 (you download the PDF file to read it)
http://aamollys.org.uk/faq.htm (Even just knowing what you two have told me, when I take that quiz based on information about Harvey, I get SEVERAL yes answers: the hospitalization, the motivation for drinking in terms of escapism, the effect on his family and behavior and more)

[ 02-24-2009, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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PrettyInAnyThingButPink
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To me i dont think Harvey is alcohol dependent, i think he binge drinks and abuses alcohol i do understand now that how heavily influenced harvey can be by other people or whats happened in his past
I can also now see that he shows the symtoms of having a problem. how he ignores his responsibtly and drinking so exessivly
[Frown] he must be so unhappy to get like this

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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Heather
Executive Director & Founder
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Well, and like I mentioned, alcoholism is often inherited, too, and if someone is surrounded by people who don't recognize that they have a problem -- and are sure not to enable it, such as by denying it IS a problem, and not a minor one, it often will get worse and worse.

Obviously, you get to have your own opinion on this, but based on what both of you have shared about his drinking, I personally feel quite certain Harvey is alcoholic at this point.

Must he be unhappy? Yes, but drinking also makes depression even worse, even though he may report it makes him feel better at the time. So, it becomes a big downward spiral when it keeps on like this.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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PrettyInAnyThingButPink
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Thankyou for helping Harvey
but BUT im really worried because when i asked him where he was going he said out when i asked why he said to get drunk and die!
he left his phone behind
i cant go after him and leave emily and im not wandering the streets looking for him with my 6 months old baby
i was just wondering whether it is just harvey being harvey and being dramatic
theres nothing i can do and i doubt theres any thing you can do but im freaked out
i dont wanna go on at you but one minute hes okish and the next hes all freaky and depressed

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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Heather
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Maddy, I'm afraid from pretty much now through Sunday I am going to be pretty unavailable: I'm just getting ready to leave town on business.

BUT, any of the volunteers can talk with either of you while I am gone.

For now, my guess is that he's simply doing what his habit is of doing. he may have chosen to leave his phone to be unreachable on purpose, and he probably said what he did out of frustration and stress. Hopefully, this is the kind of behavior pattern he can work on changing with family therapy.

I'm very sorry, though, that you have to basically sit with this for now with nothing you can really do about it for the time being. I would not suggest going after him, anyway, as I don't think it would be fruitful. Might you be able to call a friend or family member to hang out with you and Emily now so that you have some in-person support?

Also? I'd suggest that even if tomorrow he IS hungover and will not go to family therapy that you go yourself: this is important for both of you, you both need this help, and if he opts out, I think you still should go so you can talk about all of this and get started with someone.

Obviously, it is possible he will never go and it will only be you -- though I have some faith and hope that is not what will happen -- but if that's going to be the way it goes, I think it's important you recognize that, work with that, and perhaps factor it into your choices about what YOU are going to do (and can do) for yourself and Emily, okay?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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PrettyInAnyThingButPink
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I went to this counseling thing today alone without harvey he couldnt be bothered to get out of bed he couldnt be bothered to look after Emily either so i had to take her with me
Im really worried about him last night when he got in he spoke about killing himself about giving up and leaving, hes been depressed like this before and he ended up in hospital
i dont know what to do this isnt good for Emily to be living in but i cant leave him on his own when he talks about killing himself thats not fair on him
but i dont know what to do i cant help him unless he helps him self like going to counseling but i dont know what i can do i dont think he will even go to counseling i hope and pray he does he needs help
but i dont know what to do to help
what am i gonna do!

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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KittenGoddess
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Your first priority is you and your daughter.

Honey, I know you care about Harvey and you want to help him. However, he is an adult and in the end he has to take care of himself. You are not responsible for him. He gets to make his own choices. Your daughter cannot take care of herself and she relies on you to do that. If he cannot or will not get help, then we need to start talking with you about the steps you can take to find a safe, nurturing environment for you and Emily.

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Sarah Liz

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Harvey_1990
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he wont do it i know he wont get help he just beats him self up about what happened but he wont get help
as much as i dont want to admit i know that it isnt fair on emily or safe her and that leaving harvey is what...i gotta do
but hes so depressed im not saying hes my responsiblty but i cant walk away from him when hes like this
thats not fair on him
if he does take things to far my daughter wont have a dad and if i walk away it will feel like its my fault even though i know it isnt

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____*Harvey*____

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Harvey_1990
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SOrry by the way harvey signed into this thing and i didnt relise and i didnt sign out of his thing to sign back into my log in thing and i comment on this sorry

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____*Harvey*____

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PrettyInAnyThingButPink
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sorry again i honestly didnt notice i left it signed in and when harvey came in he clearly signed back into this and when i came back i hadnt noticed

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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PrettyInAnyThingButPink
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Ill do what ever it takes to help him and he knows i will but i cant cope with his drinking hes gone out again AGAIN A ******* GAIN tonight to get drunk not like he didnt go out last night to get drunk or the night before or the night before hes doesnt talk to me cause hes depressed then he feels like crap because hes depressed then he kicks off and goes out to get pissed i dont know what he wants me to do either put my daughter to bed or jump to his every need i choose look after emily but then he gets the arse on about that to he says hell get him self out of the hole hes dug himself in but never does just gets hammered cause its clearly more important than his daughter
i dont know what he wants me to do i dont know what to do i dunno whether just to give up on him

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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orca
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Hi Maddy. You sound very frustrated right now, and with plenty good reason. Do you have someone close to you who can come over and keep you company for a little while? This pattern of him going out and drinking is very consistent. How about taking us through a typical day, like say today, and tell us what all happens? Or if you'd rather talk about something else, how did your session with the counsellor go today? Did they give you any good advice or places to go for support?

[ 02-25-2009, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: orca ]

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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.--Monty Python and the Holy Grail

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PrettyInAnyThingButPink
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Today i got up i fed emily i played with emily i got emily dressed while he stayed in bed he refused to get up and get up and to go to this meeting today and then he refused to look after Emily so i went to this thing with Emily while he stayed in bed then i did the shopping when we got back he wasnt in and he wasnt at work so i dunno where he pissed off to
when he got in this evening he said hi to me and that was it for an whole bloody hour totally ignored Emily and shouted at me that she was crying and he couldnt hear who he was talking to on the phone! and then he sat on the computer depressed and smoking which means we have to have ALL the windows open to get rid of the smoke but because he cant be bothered to take a 10 second walk to the back door then he gets really depressed because he lets every thing pile on top of him and shouts at me shouts at emily just genrally gets and arse on and says hes going out and he wont get back till 3 or 4 and then it starts all over again

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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sweetnvicious
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Hi, Maddy. It seems to me (from an outsiders perspective) that Harvey has no intentions whatsoever of getting any help with his alcohol dependence, am I right? And from what I can tell both you and Harvey have just about reached your breaking points. From personal experience, I can give you some advice:

Firstly, you can not force someone to get help. The person must willingly want to seek treatment for their problem (in this case, Harvey with his alcoholism).

Secondly, you need to seriously consider what is best for your child's well being. I mean, how do you think this will effect Emily in the long-run? Do you honestly think that the environment that you're in right now is safe and healthy for her? If your answer is no, then you must consider a few things. Like, the option of leaving Harvey. I'm not saying you should completely abandon him, but to be blunt, he doesn't seem to want help.

It might be helpful if you find a friend or relative that you can talk to. Perhaps, your parents? You need to be open and HONEST with them about what needs to be done.

And, thirdly, you need to do what is best for yourself!

Beyond that, I don't think I can give you any more advice. You can always talk to a volunteer who is more experienced than I am.

Be well.

[ 02-25-2009, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: sweetnvicious ]

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quote:
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PrettyInAnyThingButPink
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I just want to say thankyou
i dunno what you said or did
but today was the first day in 5 months when hes actualy smiled whilst being in the same room as emily and has made an effort to get to know emily
i just want to say i am really greatful!

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"Smile and the whole world smiles with you"

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Heather
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Maddy: I just left Harvey a note that I am back in town again. I have some fierce jet-lag, but I'm back and can be available. It sounds like there have been some pretty important turnarounds in my absence: that's great! How are you feeling and doing right now?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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