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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Relationships » is this kind of relationship healthy ?

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Author Topic: is this kind of relationship healthy ?
cool87
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Ok, so I went out few days ago and I met this guy and we had a long talk and it was just nice since we seemed to have shared interests and such.

I just like felt really comfortable with him and he seemed really caring and was fun to talk with.

But helas, I was wondering if it was normal for a like 33 years old guy to like going out and enjoy talking to girls my age or is it mostly a recipe for disaster ? I mean, he asked me if I wanted to go out and do things with him sometimes. I'm still thinking whether it's a good idea or no.

But I'm scared he would like to go out with me only to be a ''friend with benefits'', you know ? I am a bit paranoiac and I fear he just wants to ''get into my pants''. He didn't say anything that looks like that but I am just oppening up to that possibility. I don't really think it's my instinct as much as a bit like paranoia. [Smile]

And I'm not so sure I'm totally okay with that, I mean the ''friends with benefits'' thing. I don't really know how to find out what he's really up for : if it's some sort of a friend relationship with me, a friend with benefits relationship or a gf-bf relationship. I don't want to deceive him at the same time...

Should I wait after like some few dates (if we can call that dates) so I know more what he's expecting from that relationship or should I ask him straight away something like : ''when you ask me to go out, do you mean just like as we can be friends do or do you expect something more to grow out of it?''

So any insights on that would be appreciated.

[ 03-31-2007, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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KittenGoddess
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Honey, there's no way for us to tell you what this guy is looking for in your relationship. You know that. In general, age differences can be reason for pause, especially if the people involved are in vastly different points in their lives and have vastly different experiences.

But what we do know about the situation, is that based on your history, you often find yourself with partners who are not on par with you in terms of experience and who manipulate you. So knowing those things, it's likely sage to be cautious as you procede with ANY relationship (no matter what age your partner is).

The way I see it, you've got a couple of options here, you can certainly up front ask the guy what he is looking for in the relationship AND state what YOUR intention in the relationship is. Or, you can just be friends. Remember that it is possible for people to be friends without anything sexual or romantic entering into the equation. You can hang out, you can go places together, you can enjoy one another's company without sex or romance in the picture. There's no rule that says any relationship has to progress to any given point, you can be friends for as long as you like.

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Sybil
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When I was 20, I dated a man that was 34. He was a nice guy, but I just felt awkward--Still living at home with parents, can't legally drink, still in college; While he had his entire life set up. Suffice to say, it didn't last long.

Maybe get to know him better? You're young, sweetie, just take your time =)

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cool87
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Thanks.

I talked to him about it yesterday on the phone. I asked him what kind of relationship he wanted and what was I was expecting.

After some time, he told me something like : ''Well, we don't have to have sex now on the first date if you don't want to. I sometimes do it on the first date but sometimes not and it's okay with me, really. If it's meant to happen and the time is right it will but we can also get to know each other as friends or gf/bf before and we'll see where that goes. We can totally take time to get to know each other first before having sex just like some people do. There's no rush.''

We haven't yet discussed our history so it would indeed be pretty ackward to just jump right into it.

I didn't really know what to say here so I told him : ''yeah sounds like a good idea''. I'm confused. Maybe I'm overthinking this again another time.

[ 04-03-2007, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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Heather
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Or maybe, yet again, you've set yourself up with someone who simply is not at your level.

I'll be honest with you: I earnestly can't imagine, having been 33, dating someone your age when I was that age. It would just have seemed like an utter mismatch in terms of my life experience and someone that much younger than me. Heck, I can't imagine even seeing someone your age when I was that age and thinking about them in sexual/romantic terms. To give yourself some idea of the difference -- understanding that obviously, given developmental timetables, it's not quite the same, but close -- let's say you try and picture dating someone who is 13 or 14. Just think about it.

Where do you keep meeting these guys this much older than you, anyway? I think it's pretty clear at this point in your history that dating someone whose life/raomntic/sexual experience is vastly different than yours is a problem for you, and isn't a workable situation, so why keep going there when you know that?

(FYI, I've been sick for the last couple of days and am still battling a fever, so not sure when I'll pop back in.)

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cool87
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Thanks for taking some time even though you were sick to respond to this. [Smile] It's cool.

So I think it will be easier if I just answer you when you'll come back in the next few days once your fever has disappeared. So I think I'll do just that.

(Hope you get better soon btw. [Smile] )

[ 04-03-2007, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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cool87
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Here's my reply for when you come back again and have some free time...(There's no rush)

To answer the question about the comparaison you made, no I wouldn't date, under any circumstances, a boy who is 13 or 14. I just consider it would be completly crazy and some sort of control over him (that's my opinion), aside from legal issues on top of that.

But would the answer still be the same if we reversed it--apply it to guys-- and ask ourselves if a lot of 33 year-old men would date girls my age ? Just want to be sure...

Where do you keep meeting these guys this much older than you, anyway?

This one, I met him one night when I went out with some friends. He came to me and started making conversation.

Why keep going there when you know that?

This one question, to be honest... I don't know.

[ 04-03-2007, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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Heather
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Why would an age difference be different just because of sex/gender?

In other words, why on earth would it be different for men than for women? What do you think could logically make it different (because the fact that -- big duh in a patriarchal system-- it's consdiered more socially acceptable for men)?

Like I said, because of your age, scaling down isn't as easy a comparison, because to do so is putting you in an age group of someone who isn't anything close to adult. BUT, it does still put someone that much younger than you in a very different developmental and experiential space than you are, which IS the case with you and someone who is 33, especially given you in particular and your inclination to keep choosing partners who just aren't right for you, often because they are in an entriely different space than you are, far removed from your experiential level.

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cool87
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I thought most 30 year-old guy would go out with girls my age although I know it might not be the case at all. But I guess when that's the case that isn't necessarily for the same reasons as I'd want it to be, I had the impression it was for sex mostly in a lot of cases.

And that does create problems right as we've seen : me dating an way much older guy ?

This one seems to be looking for sex, right ?

Could a lot of older men assume that the most likely reason why a girl might be interested in them is sex mostly ? I don't want to make too much generalization here but maybe that could explain the way he reacted in my case.

[ 04-03-2007, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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Heather
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Honey, I'm not a psychic. I have no idea what this guy is looking for. Really, this is more about YOU than about them.

I have clearly seen this creates problems for YOU, and I have clearly seen that you have a particularly tough time with boundaries and with judgment of partners when they have this sort of gap.

When any of us know that a given situation tends to be problematic for us like this, usually the only sound thing to do is to try and just make different choices. Even if this guy does want more, I have to be frank and say that I just don't see a scenario like this as being right for YOU per where YOU are and what has been a problem for you during the time you've been posting here. You've also talked about feeling like a baby because you haven't had a certain level of sexual or romantic experience, so why set yourself up to be with anyone who just by being far older, would compound those insecurities even more?

You know, one thing that might help you out is to know that often, relationships happen a lot more naturally than all of this. In other words, that as we take the time to get to know someone, and they us, we don't really need to be so formal about what it is they want right off the bat, because we feel safe enough around them that it's okay to take that time, and when they're not pushing for something that isn't coming naturally, there's no rush on their part to get to the point where we have those conversations.

So, when you meet someone like this and you feel worried about this sort of thing right away, it might be sage to start paying attention, because often, when we feel anxieties like this right off, it's our instincts telling us something just isn't kosher with the other person. You've had trouble in the past with character judgment, and so I can't help but start to think that you might not just be second-guessing your instincts in instances like these.

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cool87
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Yeah, I still haven't had an entire date with him and yet these thoughts appear in my mind. Seems like I was suspecting something which I should be more careful maybe about next time.

I guess also I just didn't thought about the fact that 13 years could really be a big age gasp.

Thanks for those replies Heather. Even though you were a lot sick it's really nice of you of having took the time to reply. [Smile]

I'm a lot tired and off to bed now but I'll think about that and maybe ask some more questions later on on another day ok ?

[ 04-03-2007, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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cool87
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Well, so that sounds like a bad idea dating him or even having him as a friend, right ? Even more so after the e-mail I got from him which I won't retell here given some aspects of it, some of which makes you want to vomit.

Like in the few ones I've dated they just seemed so fixated on trying to have sex with me and I'm guessing this was one big reason they dated me now. They are so so caring at the beginning and seems to make things perfect, I mean there's got to be a reason behind that. And this one again, if I listen well to what my inconscious is telling me, he's just trying to get there too also.

It's not that I don't like sex. I fear it's just not something I would be comfortable doing like on the first date. I would just sort of freeze. I need to trust the man a lot before being able to do that and it's totally cool, I've got to a point where I think I have accepted that. They seem to be the ones having a problem with it more than I do.

This guy, I fear he might not be that honest either in what he tells me. He said the way I was (inexperienced and young and blablabla) was a big turn on for him and that he would love to show me how things are done (just as if there was only one way to have sex, ahah).

Anyway I just will never get why it's a turn on for him : because he feels more in power that way and this makes him feel better ? And because he can do whatever he wants with me without me reacting because he thinks I simply won't state my limits given I'm the younger one here and fear his reaction ? (yeah maybe this one at least is right. I hate to admit it, but I'm far from 100 % able yet to state my limits in situations like that. I'm still working on it though.)

If I listen well to my thoughts, that might just means he wants sex only and then dump me once he gets what he wants. Or maybe he'll hurt me. Maybe he just tries to make me comfortable and all, at ease, for me then to give in and so he gets what he wants. Which one it is, I don't care because I am not willing to accept any of those anyway.

And that might not be at all the way he predicted it to me, he seems to make it be a lot more appealing than it actually is or will actually be.

I'm just frustrated. See my paranoid side..it's taking over here I think. Or maybe it's really my inconscious warning me after all and I should really listen to it. I thought this one was better than the others but I'm not this sure now. I am not a toy which you can use just for your own pleasure and throw away after just as you like. I'm not that naive. Heck, I am a human being, not an inert object.

I'm just wondering, is it a trend with older men dating younger girls (for their so-called inexperience) and show them how things are done ? It seems to be with me at least. Or maybe I just always get the bad guys ?

(And hey this is about the men I dated and obviously is not a generalization here ok with all older men at all in any way. Just wanted to specify that in order to not create any misunderstanding. In fact, the ones being like that might just be in a minority.)

[ 04-04-2007, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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Heather
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If a communication from a potnetial partner makes you want to vomit, I really don't think you need to know much else about purusing a relationship, do you?

And yeah: from the sounds of things, he's an arse who wants to get off on being your Daddy, which I agree, is indeed puke-inducing.

Like I said, and I know I have said to you before, I think it's painfully obvious that the best potential partners for you are partners your own age, whose experiential levels are about the same as yours. I don't think you need to go nuts trying to analyze why, or figure out people's motives who are outside of that group, because it's effectively useless information when you know that for whatever reason, right now, that's clearly the wrong dating pool for you.

And if you need some extra help weeding out the baddies?

quote:
I am not a toy which you can use just for your own pleasure and throw away after just as you like. I'm not that naive. Heck, I am a human being, not an inert object.
You might try making a t-shirt or a button out of that. [Smile]

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cool87
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quote:
You might try making a t-shirt or a button out of that.
Well, you know if you want to use it to make a T-shirt Heather you can ... ummmmmm as long as you give me credits for it. [Wink] As for me, I'll think I'll past on that one. [Smile]

(I know it was a joke, so don't worry. I was just joking)

There's some part of your post I am not sure what you really mean (like the daddy thing) but I think I'll past on that since it's not really of big importance right ?

[ 04-04-2007, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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Heather
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Oh, honey, I don't need it.

I've got that stuff tatooed on my FOREHEAD at this point. [Smile] People looking for that look at me and run screaming in the other direction, seriously.

Some of that is my nature and the fact that I'm so clearly assertive, but too, some of that is just my age. One of the bummers of being a young woman in the world is being treated like that, and if it's any consolation, it does happen less often as you get older.

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cool87
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Thanks for devoting your time Heather. It did help me out to just let that anger out a bit. [Smile]

Now I know that older men like that are definitly not the right partners for me, at least not at this point of my life.

And it's also nice to see too that I'm not the only one thinking that these things makes you wanna vomit. [Smile]

[ 04-04-2007, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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-Lauren-
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Yeah, cool, I gotta agree with Heather. Major barf.

In short, what is meant by the term "daddy" (leather daddy, sugar daddy, etc) is an older man who gets off by manipulating and controlling a young woman. Think of the traditional father role: to teach, nurture, and train to behave. Folks like that get a rise out of putting a sexual twist on that role, as well as being the main (if not only) male in a woman's life.

In short, sounds like he wants you to be his little piece of modelling clay that he gets to shape.

Soo, sounds like it's clear that this isn't something you want nor that's good for you, and I'm really proud that you've realized that! It's awesome to see you getting more assertive and trusting yourself more. [Smile]

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cool87
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Well could it be categorized as some sort of near-abuse, the daddy thing I mean ?

That is seriously not cool.

[ 04-04-2007, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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-Lauren-
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Abuse can take place, sure. But what it mostly means is that there's often a power dynamic in the relationship in which the man strives for complete charge of a young woman's sexuality, if not other areas as well.

This is pretty much displayed in his comments on finding your lack of experience a turn-on, and desire to "teach" you .. basically, that mentality suggests manipulating and perhaps even commandeering your sexuality to suit his needs is what he's seeking.

This is definitely a case in which a relationship between an older man and a younger woman can't work out, especially since the power dynamics are right on display here from the start.

You might want to refer to your previous thread on the subject of women with older partners for a refresher course on what often goes down. [Smile]

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cool87
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Thanks to you Lauren and Heather.

I think it sounds weird cause I didn't know what daddy was but anyway....well I had an idea but wasn't so sure about it. We're here to learn too though.

He sure sounds like a jerk now [Smile] and it's definatly not a situation I want to get into, it's completly disgusting.

I haven't yet had the courage to tell him that it was over (even if it wasn't even a relationship yet) but I will soon. I think it's better to do that than having him sending me e-mails non-stop thinking there is something going on.

[ 04-05-2007, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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Heather
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It's not anything I meant to be complex.

To sum up: do you want a parent or a partner? Someone interested in being a partner sees you as their active equal, their peer, and as someone to share things with.

Someone interested in playing some sort of parent sees you as some sort of child, as more passive or unequal, and in need of their guidance and experience, and/or desires to shape and mold you, to have a relationship based, in whole or in part, on the lack of equality they perceive or seek.

And FYI? There's never any need to make a big to-do about ending a relationship that didn't even get started. A simple email that even just says, "You know, I'm not really interested in purusing this, was nice to meet you, have a nice day/life/whatever," is really all anyone is owed.

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cool87
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quote:
do you want a parent or a partner?
I didn't want a parent. Well at least I didn't want him to act like my daddy or anything, get what I mean ? I didn't want this kind of parent. I know in this situation I think I'd be completly uncomfortable and for sure I would be far less able to state my limits. So it is a total no-no for me and it is a recipe for disaster.

What could have been maybe nice was a partner who, like you said, really saw me as equal to him, so a relationship which isn't about one of us having power over the other. But is that really possible when the age gasp is as big and experiences so different ?

I wanted a friend and MAYBE a partner but HE wanted more and he seemed to want to be the parent there also given some comments he said to me which are completly not cool. And given this, I think he's just not worth being even just a friend to me.

[ 04-05-2007, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: cool87 ]

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