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Author Topic: lied to for 2 years
greenapp1es
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Ok...so I'm kinda in shock right now...

So, my boyfriend and I have been dating for 2 years now. In the two years we've been dating there have been some things that my boyfriend has defined himself with...the fact that he was in the army, the fact that he was an army ranger and was a sniper, that he made sargent, that he had a girlfriend in the army that was killed and died in his arms. These were things that were, supposedly, key defining factors of his personality and were part of the core that made up who he was.

Over the past two years, little details haven't added up, so I knew something wasn't right. Well, after talking to his mom tonight on unrelated issues, she compared what he's going through now to "problems he dealt with in the army." I asked if she was referring to the girlfriend who died...she looked at me odd and mentioned that she never knew anything like that happened. I asked what she was referring to, she mentioned some of the problems he had in basic training. Apparently...he never made it out of basic.

I currently don't know how to react. I'm floored, I feel betrayed, I feel I don't know to tell what about the two years of relationship we've had is real and what is not. Moreover, I'm concerned because I think my boyfriend is convinced in his own mind that some of this is true...which points to majorly unstable and worries me as to how he will react if I question him on this. He's never been hurtful or violent in any way shape or form before, but how do I know how he'll react if I tell him that I know everything he holds as a core to who he is is a lie? He doesn't know yet that the conversation with his mom ever happened. How do I bring up that it did?

I don't know...I guess what I need right now is support and advice. I know I have a right to feel how I do right now. But I still feel so alone, and all of my real life friends are unreachable. I still feel horribly betrayed. I still want someone to talk to. And I need to know how best to approach what needs to happen next.

Obviously all of this is a PROBLEM. Obviously I need to talk to him. How? What do I say? Should I bring a friend to stay in the car in case he reacts differently to this than I've ever seen him act in the 2 years of our relationship? What if he still thinks everything is real? How do I react if he owns up to everything? I really truly care for this guy. What do I tell people who can't know the truth if we break up over this? (my dad's a retired lieutenant colonel in the marines...he would react absolutely horribly)

Any reactions, suggestions, or reccommendations would be greatly welcome right now. I just really need someone to be here for me right now.

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Ecofem
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I'm so sorry to hear about this, greenapp1es. Finding this out after you've been together for two years with things seeming otherwise good must be extremely heartwrenching and confusing. I'm going to go with the assumption/fact that he has been lying about all of this (versus it being an effect of him suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, etc.)

First, I would not confront him about this in the car or in any place private. If he were to react in a dangerous way, driving could make things more risky. Other posters should be by to give you more advice; is there anyone in person you could talk to about this?

I must say, him creating this story (and sticking by it so long) is a bad sign. Something is not right, although I can't say what. Did you see the movie Mona Lisa Smile? In the film, a young female professor, played by Julia Roberts, falls for this womanizing Italian professor. He's SO attractive to many female students because of his looks but also past as a brave American soldier in Italy in WWII. The female professor finds out from his friend that the guy had never even been to Italy and had fabricated the whole story. She ended up leaving the relationship.

I can see how he may have felt ashamed for getting discharged from the Army and created this story to make himself seem more appealing. However, it is a lie and something SO big that he's kept from you for so long. To me, such a lie totally destroys the pillar of mutual trust needed in a relationship.

I would wait a day or two, without seeing him during this time. Perhaps bring this up with him via email even, but I wouldn't do anything in person yet? (Other people might advise against it, but the whole situation's a bit tricky.) He should be given the chance to explain himself, but if this truly is a life, you don't need to give him (any) room for mistakes or tolerate it. Please wait for a few more responses here as well as talk to at least one friend or someone about this. Then decide what to do. We can talk about what you can say should you break-up in a bit. Again, this is such a horrible spot to be in; I'm sorry and please hang in there.

[ 03-11-2007, 03:58 AM: Message edited by: Ecofem ]

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-Lauren-
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(Hey, greenapp1es. Good to see you around again, but I'm sorry the circumstances of your return are so dismal. [Frown] )

Looks like you're dealing with a regular pathological liar here, which cannot be an easy thing to deal with. It's all there; the embellishment of elaborate stories to impress people or make one's life more interesting/dramatic, the "playing of the role" and utter convinction that the lie is true. I'd imagine you feel betrayed, and you have every right.

This isn't an indication of mental illness, but is often an indicator that an individual is unstable. You'd be wise to talk this over with him in the presence of someone you can trust. Pathological liars to this degree live and breathe this fantasy they've created; somebody shattering it could well illicit a freak reaction.

Form a plan, have a support person ready, and tell him that you know the things he's told you haven't been true. Express your hurt and anger, and tell him he needs to get his butt to a therapist if he wants this to even have a chance of working out. That is, if you even HAVE a desire to make this work, and I'd hardly blame you for not wanting to put forth the effort.

How about some resources for you? I can't imagine all the things you're trying to process right now, and your sense of faith and trust has likely taken a flush down the proverbial drain. Is there anyone around you can talk to, family or school? What about visiting a professional?

[ 03-11-2007, 04:00 AM: Message edited by: Miss Lauren ]

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greenapp1es
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I'm set to meet with him and several other friends for an activity we all engage in every sunday in a few hours, so avioiding him for a couple of days isn't an option. I wish it were right now. I'm hoping to drop in on a friend tomorrow morning to talk to before I head out....but I have no guarantee she'll be home. I'm also nervous about letting this sit...it seems like it would be harder to bring up in a couple days than right away....but I might need a couple days to figure out how to approach it anyway. I don't know. It just hurts
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September
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I'm so sorry you're in this situation, greenapp1es. I wish I could offer some words of advice, but being in the same situation myself right now, I am feeling every bit as confused as you are.

From an outsider's perspective, just reading your post and not knowing first-hand what it feels like to be there, my gut reaction would be to say that this isn't a healthy relationship to be in. Obviously there could be all sorts of believable, understandable reasons for his lies - but the fact remains that he lied to you about fairly big things, and finding that out really pretty much destroys any foundation of trust that's existed.

As someone who's dealing with the same situation, I know how difficult it is to come to terms with the fact that everything you thought you know about a person is suddenly in question. You start to analyze every word and every gesture and it's just so hard to seperate the truth from the lies.

The difference is that my relationship is already over, I am finding things out in retrospect, and I may never get to discuss it and figure out his motivations and explanations.

My advice to you is to confront him about it. Lauren's worry that he might react in unpredictable ways is definitely a valid one, so make sure someone knows where you are and what you're up to, so you're not on your own in case things get wierd. I can understand that the impulse would be to want to believe what he says, but please try to be as rational as possible. Only you can judge what you can live with and what you can't, but please don't accept any and all excuse just to save the relationship. If how he reacts and what he has to say doesn't sit well with you, you have absolutely every right in the world to walk out on him, ask for a break, or end the relationship. There is no point in having a relationship if there is no trust.

My thoughts are with you and I hope you get through this okay.

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Johanna
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Heather
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Is it possible for you to be able to talk to his Mom again about all of this?

Or to be with her when confronting him? Since she's someone who clearly knows the truth, if you two have a good relationship, she might be an ideal support.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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greenapp1es
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Ok...so I talked with him today. That did nothing but point out exactly how hard it is to try to tackle an issue like this when you don't know that you can trust a thing the other person says.

He fully admits that there are only three possible situations here...1)his mom for some reason has completely misaccounted for a couple of years of his life....which is extremely extremely unlikely. 2) he had a psychotic break, lost touch with reality, and "remembers" two years of his life that do not exist, also unlikely, or 3)He's been lying to me from day 1 of the relationship. Logically, option 3 is by far the most likely option. However, he swears that he remembers the events he spoke of like he remembers going to school as a child, or like he remembers our relationship, or any other memories he's had in his life.

He argued his case "very convincingly," complete with curling up into a ball sobbing like a child and trembling at the idea that he's gone completely insane. Which leads me to wonder, is it actally possible he's telling the truth, or is he simply an amazingly good actor too?

Tomorrow he will be tearing his room apart looking for his DD 214 papers, which we can use to eliminate option 1 based on the discharge date and reason for discharge. I'm not holding any expectations that they will say anything other than "entry level separation" but in in the off chance the records validate his "memories" thats something he can take up with his mom.

He's also agreed that the two of us need to have a little chat with his mom to try to sort out truth from fiction. As well as agreeing that if the discharge papers show him not being in the military as long as he "remembers" being in that he needs serious professional help.

So, basically...he's doing everything in his power to "prove" that he didn't intentionally lie to me. Including going through every logical reason why lying on this scale would do nothing but blow up in his face and that as a logical person he would konw better. But then, if he's a pathological liar, all of this is still simply lying to cover his tracks.

So, basically...I'm about to tear my hair out.

I feel absolutely horrible. I want to believe him. I want to trust him. But I can't...and I feel that I'm either a)a gullible moron for entertaining he isn't "at fault" here or b) a horrible girlfriend for not giving him a chance.

There are events that agree with the story in his mom's telling and his in boot camp. He has never denied he had trouble in basic training, was convinced he couldn't do what was asked of him and wanted to go home. His mom's telling agrees with his that his drill seargents brought his records before him and showed him that all the stuff he "couldn't do" he ended up being one of the best in his platoon at. Just he remembers sticking with it and she remembers him quitting. She went down to see him during this time because she was concerned about his mental state...he'd attempted sudicide in high school and she was afraid that something like that might happen again. So the psychotic break isn't necessarily impossible either.

And then there are little things...like the injuries he remembers from the army where he has legit injuries...such as the 8 inch scar on the back of his thigh from where "he was nearly hamstrung with a handaxe." Where the heck did that come from?

I'm so horribly confused. My best friend thinks I should outright dump him, because all of this is obviously manipulation and more lies. My boyfriend said if it turns out that his memories didn't happen he'll need me terribly...as his self identity will be pretty much gone. But he also said that he fully understands where all this may make me want to leave him, and told me that he'll understand if I can't stay with him anymore. Right before collapsing to the bed sobbing and trembling.

So...basically...even after talking to him I have absolutely no clue what I should do. Do I take him at his word that there is something more deeply wrong here that him being a pathological liar? Can you believe anything that comes out of mouth of someone who might be a pathological liar? Am I a horrible person if I don't believe him and he truly thinks this happened? Am I gullible for entertaining that this might be the case?

Anyway, I'm gonna go hide now. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long, confusing, and terrribly hard to follow rant. But such is what my life has fallen into in the past 24 hours

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Heather
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I'll apologize in advance for not having much time right now, but I'll swing back tomorrow.

One thing that is really troubling me with this is this:

quote:
My boyfriend said if it turns out that his memories didn't happen he'll need me terribly...as his self identity will be pretty much gone. But he also said that he fully understands where all this may make me want to leave him, and told me that he'll understand if I can't stay with him anymore. Right before collapsing to the bed sobbing and trembling.
This is SO not okay. Even IF this is all about your boyfriend being utterly delusional about two years and having no clue he was (which obviously, I, you, and any thinking person would deeply question), then by no means would he be in a place to have a romantic relationship with you of any sort, and by no means would you be the appropriate person to help him, since even if that WERE what happened, he wouldn't be the only injured party here. Even if he WERE a pathological liar, for obvious reasons, it'd be really unadvisable for you to stick around: a pathological liar isn't a person who is in a position to be in this sort of relationship with someone. (Also? Pathological lying isn't selective as I understand it. In other words, a pathological liar lies to everyone, all the time, not just to one person or around one particular fiction.)

I'd love to think the best about this -- whatever best there is to think -- but I have to say that my gut, reading all of what you've posted to this point, is that this guy is a pretty amazing manipulator and a sane one, at that.

But my most immediate concern is for YOU. Do YOU have good supports right now? Plenty of people YOU can talk to about YOUR needs and concerns? Would you like some help finding some sort of counseling resource for yourself to help get you through this, whatever the truth of it may be?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ecofem
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Hello again, greenapp1es, also just the tip of the iceberg from me tonight.

quote:
Originally posted by greenapp1es:
He argued his case "very convincingly," complete with curling up into a ball sobbing like a child and trembling at the idea that he's gone completely insane. Which leads me to wonder, is it actally possible he's telling the truth, or is he simply an amazingly good actor too?

Honestly, if I were in his shoes, I wouldn't have gotten so hysterical about this. I would have been upset but I'd know I had been telling the truth, so I'd be calmly-if-angrily looking to verify the facts versus putting on a show. If he is a pathological liar, as it appears, being "an amazingly good actor" sort of goes with the territory.

Tomorrow he will be tearing his room apart looking for his DD 214 papers, which we can use to eliminate option 1 based on the discharge date and reason for discharge. I'm not holding any expectations that they will say anything other than "entry level separation" but in in the off chance the records validate his "memories" thats something he can take up with his mom.OK, we'll see but I'm not expecting much, sorry to say. He can always directly contact the Army for a copy if he needs to, so please don't a response of "I can't find them."

quote:
He's also agreed that the two of us need to have a little chat with his mom to try to sort out truth from fiction. As well as agreeing that if the discharge papers show him not being in the military as long as he "remembers" being in that he needs serious professional help.
Well, yes, sounds like he would need the help. BUT it's not your job to provide him with it or support him through it. Chances are you'll need the help (I mean this neutrally) for what he's put you through.

quote:
So, basically...he's doing everything in his power to "prove" that he didn't intentionally lie to me. Including going through every logical reason why lying on this scale would do nothing but blow up in his face and that as a logical person he would konw better. But then, if he's a pathological liar, all of this is still simply lying to cover his tracks.
I'm no psychoanalyist but this all isn't very convincing to me. And, again, his over-the-top reaction doesn't really validate its authencity to me.

quote:
I feel absolutely horrible. I want to believe him. I want to trust him. But I can't...and I feel that I'm either a)a gullible moron for entertaining he isn't "at fault" here or b) a horrible girlfriend for not giving him a chance.
It's understandable that you feel this way but it's NOT your fault!! It's perfectly ok NOT to trust him; regardless of the details, something fishy is going on. Listen to your gut on this.

quote:
She went down to see him during this time because she was concerned about his mental state...he'd attempted sudicide in high school and she was afraid that something like that might happen again. So the psychotic break isn't necessarily impossible either.
Such a reason could account for him leaving basic training. It seems that if his mother isn't afraid to talk about him having a suicide attempt in high school, she wouldn't be trying to cover up other stuff either. Then again, I'm not there.

quote:
And then there are little things...like the injuries he remembers from the army where he has legit injuries...such as the 8 inch scar on the back of his thigh from where "he was nearly hamstrung with a handaxe." Where the heck did that come from?
There are a lot of reasons for injuries. Maybe the scar is from his suicide attempt even? I just can't get over how he fabricated this war hero story, something I find incredibly wrong. Speaking of this, his service records would include all assignments, assuming he wasn't on an secret missions.

quote:
I'm so horribly confused. My best friend thinks I should outright dump him, because all of this is obviously manipulation and more lies. My boyfriend said if it turns out that his memories didn't happen he'll need me terribly...as his self identity will be pretty much gone. But he also said that he fully understands where all this may make me want to leave him, and told me that he'll understand if I can't stay with him anymore. Right before collapsing to the bed sobbing and trembling.
Honestly, as confusing as this all is, I would probably dump him, too, but I can only imagine how incredibly difficult this is for you right now. Heather already addressed his "needing you terribly" but I'll reiterate how majorly pissed off this makes me. He made these mistakes, you didn't do anything wrong, and, I swear, you're the one who should be getting support. That whole line from him is SO manipulative!

quote:
So...basically...even after talking to him I have absolutely no clue what I should do. Do I take him at his word that there is something more deeply wrong here that him being a pathological liar? Can you believe anything that comes out of mouth of someone who might be a pathological liar? Am I a horrible person if I don't believe him and he truly thinks this happened? Am I gullible for entertaining that this might be the case?
I'd maybe give him a chance to produce those papers and then go from there. If he's lying about all this, I don't think you'd ever be able to trust him again (with reason!) Regardless of what happens and as confusing as things are now, I don't think it'll ever go back to how it was earlier (when it wasn't even as you had thought it was.)

quote:
Anyway, I'm gonna go hide now. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long, confusing, and terrribly hard to follow rant. But such is what my life has fallen into in the past 24 hours
Again, I am so sorry about all this and for being such a downer with my responses. But there will be a time where you're feeling better and grounded about all of this. I know you want explanations and for things to fit in place, to make sense. However, I think sticking with him and talking things out won't help but harm you more. It's going to take some major processing on your part, but it's going to best done without him.
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greenapp1es
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quote:
Honestly, if I were in his shoes, I wouldn't have gotten so hysterical about this. I would have been upset but I'd know I had been telling the truth, so I'd be calmly-if-angrily looking to verify the facts versus putting on a show. If he is a pathological liar, as it appears, being "an amazingly good actor" sort of goes with the territory.
To be fair to the situation that happened...he did calmly go through each memory, how he remembered it, exactly where everything on his body was, why it would be stupid for him to lie, etc. That was his first reaction. The sobbing and trembling happened after he looked at me and said how he'd need me, which I agree is horribly manipulative. If this truly is a case of a psychotic break I can see how he'd be feeling alone and stranded. But its still the key opportune place for him to react this way hoping to elicit the desired response from me. Without being "unjustified" in the eyes of many because he's emotionally distraught over the thought of losing everything. Still not fair to me.

As for the sudicide attempt, he's got a nice scar on his wrist from that one, and he told me about it before him mom did. His account of that is the exact same account of his mom's....both of whom would obviously have been there as his mom was the one who found him. But the existance of some details of his life having exact matching details from his telling and his mom's telling still doesn't "prove" that other instances are't lies. I know that pathalogical liars tend to lie to everybody, but his mom went down there when he was having trouble in boot camp and talked to his drill seargent too...trying to pull strings to get him out. So both of them would be first hand accounts of this...so them matching is good. Of course, lying about something where there was someone else there to confirm the real story doesn't watch one's back very well. But then, if he didn't have a psychotic break then he still told a series of very very large and all encompasing lies with someone there who could dispute all.

Another detail that's really bothering me. He told me he never told his mom about Tina, the girlfriend who supposedly died in his arms on valentines day 'cause she was jumped in georgia when they were out to dinner. Where he sat in the diner while she went to the car and got attacked while out, where he didn't realize what was going on until it was too late. Where he blames himself for her death, because he should have been more aware. This, the girl he was supposedly expecting to announce his engagement to. Um, hello? You expect me to believe that you never told your mom that you were dating a girl that you you were considering marriage to? And that you wouldn't have told your mom what you were going through after she allegedly died?

I think what I'm going to do is hold back and wait to see what actual actions come as result of this. But he needs to produce the papers...I know he can get copies but he found the folder a couple months ago...in my presence while he was sorting through his room. So if he had them in October he should be able to find them with some expediency. He needs to talk to his mom. He needs to follow up and actually make a psychological appointment following that. I'm not necessarily expecting him to...and therefore I'm preparing myself to be gone.

As for me...no, I really don't have that great of a support system right now. Basically I've got my one friend. I'll manage though...I think. All things considering my mental state right now could be a lot worse. I do know that while I've never been diagnosed with depression I've spent a good part of my life in a depressed state, and that will probably hit again in response to all this. So I really probably should find a councelor in my area to deal with the depression in general...having help would just be an added bonus. On that though, another thing that highly annoyed me was him telling me that until we got this figured out he doesn't want any of our group to know what happened, "as he doesn't want everyone to know that either he or his mom are going insane". Sorry...too late there. I needed people to talk to talk to before I told him what I found out, so a couple already know. They won't get involved though unless I specifically ask them to.

On that...I promised my one friend that I'd head there today, to try to sort everything out and to let her know what all happened and the like. So I'm heading out that way now.

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September
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I just wanted to let you know that my thoughts are with you, greenapp1es.

It sounds like you're being pretty level-headed about all of this, which is going to make all of this easier to deal with. Good on you.

The story about the girlfriend who supposedly died in his arms sounds incredibly unbelievable to me, so I'd be surprised if he did provide proof that it happened. So at this point, the only thing that could redeem was if it really was a psychotic break, rather than a deliberate lie. Though that wouldn't make things any easier for you, because dealing with a person in that kind of mental state can't be anything but draining.

So really, when you say that you're preparing to end the relationship, that sounds like the wisest decision you can make. I know it's horrible to get to a point like that, especially after such a long time and when it happens out of the blue like that. But you sound like you've got a good head on your shoulders and I'm sure you'll make it through this okay.

*hugs*

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Johanna
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"The question is not who will let me, but who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

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Heather
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Yeah, no: he doesn't get to control who you talk to about this. After all, the stories he was telling weren't secrets, so asking you to keep them secret now, when you need support, isn't a go. Sounds to me like he just wants less people to know he's lied.

Too bad.

One other thing I was thinking about as I was falling asleep last night was that it'd be good for you to try and ditch all these thoughts of not beiing a "good" girlfriend.

ANYONE who has been systematically lied to for the whole of a relationship is going to feel very betrayed, lose all sense of trust, and seriously consider getting out of the relationship. I'd be very, very concerned about the well-being of someone who felt differently.

One other thought I had if he wants to stick with this psychotic break theory is that you suggest he seek out professional help now, not later. Were it me, even while considering whether or not to continue the relationship, I'd make that a contingent of being around at ALL.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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greenapp1es
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Boyfriend's family got Dish Network today so with the install and necessary cleaning to get wires through he didn't get discharge papers found today...but I really don't think that's going to matter so much anymore. I played the "lets look at this logically and try to piece the timeline together" game with him today, and after that discussion and the obvious inconsistancies that produced he seems to realize that it is almost certian that none of this ever happened. He's still expected to produce them, but more as a formality than anything else. He spent a good amount of time talking about his life and past as he remembers it and as so far as I could tell honestly trying to keep his emotions in check....with the slip of a wavering voice and a stray tear from time to time. This ranged from his memories and what doesn't add up to his general frustrations with the situation, frustrations with how this will affect his life and frustrations as to how his life is now. He's not doing too well right now...as an understatement...but I know that at this point that's not my responsibility or worry. I did ask him if he was going to be ok, and he gave me his box cutter so he doesn't have it if he turns worse than he is. I know that may be seen by some as manipulative itself...but I actually feel better this way as he now has nothing in easy access that can cause him harm.

At this point I'm willing to accept the psychotic break alternate reality theory as a guarded possibility. Not a certianty...I'm still fully aware that these may end up showing through as lies. I'm picking everything through carefully and if I catch him in lies with this...he's gone.

He's got a neurologist appoitment already scheduled coming up very quickly for a seizure disorder that came on this past october. He's going to mention all of this at the appoitment there. He knows I expect a psych appointment too...but seeing as he has little money and no insurance he's hoping the neurologist can suggest someone who would be willing to work with the money situation. If he doesn't get one...I'm gone.

Also, I told him that my one friend knows, he wasn't exactly happy about it but when I told him that I told her before telling him because I was looking for support and advice and that he's not the only one going through crap for this he immediately backed off. Unhappy that it will cost him the friendship of the two of them, but he acknowledges that its not fair to ask me to deal with this without support. And considering that my friend wants to kill him for what putting me through all this, his assumption that this will cost the friendship is a good one.

He also brought up the "I'll need you" statement from before and told me that the status of the relationship will be up to me, and that while he would like to try to remain friends if things don't work out he'll understand whatever I choose.

So...yeah. Things settled down a little bit, but now that the rush of emotions is settling down its time for real actions and real decisions. He and I both agree that its best to limit our contact with each other for the next couple days to give ourselves time to mull over the situation and figure out our thoughs and feelings on everything. My friend thinks thats stupid of me...that I should just dump him now, because giving him a couple of days would simply give him time to think up the next set of lies. I'm aware that my decision may have this impact, but taking a couple days off still gives me time to sort things through and mull things over, so I'll take the risk and just observe very carefully what happens when he and I do talk or come in contact. So while I know that things still certianly aren't going to be easy, I think I'll come through alright. At least for now. I just hope that it doesn't crop up in annoying and uncanny ways as baggage later. I guess if it does I'll just have to deal with it then though.

I'm still open for suggestions and thoughts and the like, but I am doing better. Thanks for all your thoughts and input on this, I greatly appreciate it and you have all been most helpful. Thank you.

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Heather
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Only have a minute, but a colleague of mine very well-versed in military procedures metnioned to me that if this guy didn't complete basic, he just won't have discharge papers, period.

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hunnybunny888
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hey greenapples,
sorry to hear your going through this. I went through something a little but similar to this with my ex bf of almost a month. wether it's pathological lying, intentional lying, or another disorder it's not fun to deal with but I'm glad to see that you're staying so strong.
I know it's hard to let go when nothing has been concluded but you might not get all of the answers. ever.
Just keep staying strong and level headed and I'm sure you'll get through this, with or without him.
If you wanna talk send me a message

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Leabug
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(Hunnybunny888- Just so you know, private messaging is disabled on the forums in order to protect the privacy of the users. You guys are free to have a discussion on the boards though! [Smile] )

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Lea

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Ecofem
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For another POV: I asked around regarding paperwork, too, and their feelings were, "If you went through paperwork to get in, then you have to go through paperwork to get out." (Something that's generally not easy anyway.)

In any case, I wanted to comment on this:
quote:
I did ask him if he was going to be ok, and he gave me his box cutter so he doesn't have it if he turns worse than he is. I know that may be seen by some as manipulative itself...but I actually feel better this way as he now has nothing in easy access that can cause him harm.
On one hand, it's good if not having it makes him less likely to hurt himself. On the other, does he live in a knife-less environment? I feel that, in a way, his doing this sort of prolongs the connection or dependency on you symbolically. That you feel his self-harm is in your hands. Can you give it to his mother or someone as not to feel responsible for it yourself? (Also a symbolic gesture, if you will.)

[ 03-13-2007, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Ecofem ]

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greenapp1es
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Eh, it was in plain view on his dresser. I'm not that concerned about him looking for something to harm himself with, but in his state of mind last night it was easier to take than to have it in plain view and easy reach. If he was going to actively take actions into his own hands there is nothing I can do to stop him anyway, but it would require slightly more effort than grabbing something less than 2 feet away from his bed.

As of right now I'm really not reading too much into having it, but will consider what to do with it...either giving it back to her or putting it away or something.

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greenapp1es
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Just because its worth asking here, does anyone know of any free or pro-rated psychologists/psychiatrists in the chicagoland area? The more I think about it I'd rather actively try to find these resources on my own rather than rely on his neurologist appointment for answers. Obviously he needs one, but at the very least I should probably look into counceling myself. While for the most part I seem fine considering, my emotions at the moment do seem to have about the consistency of a superball.
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greenapp1es
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Ok...to make my situation even more fun...I'm now in danger over losing my best friend due to this. She just told me point blank to my face that to consider for two seconds ANY possibility other than him completely out and out lying to me is bunk, and that "deluding myself into thinking that this may be due to a psychological issue will do nothing but hurt me, and she WILL NOT be there if I choose to walk this path." She also told me she's questioning my sanity that I'm willing to give a psychological issue a possible consideration.

I know she doesn't want to see me screwed over in this, and that she's afraid that I'm playing onto his hands with giving him a chance. But I'm under no delusions about the fact that he may still be lying. I just want to give him a chance to prove the mostly likely scenerio wrong, and I'm willing to do so because of his confusion and willingness to seek help.

How do I deal with this? I know she doesn't want to see me hurt. I know she's angry at him as an understatement, if all this was a lie he lied to her too. But this puts me in a position where if I don't dump him by the next time I talk to her, I'll be dealing with the situation with almost no support and a good chance I will lose BOTH people close to me. Any suggestions anyone?

Oh, and if the two of you are still watching this thread...September and hunnybunny you said you dealt with things similar to this. Can I ask what happened? Or how you dealt with everything?

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September
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First of all, to that current situation with your friend, gawd do I know what that's like. I took my boyfriend back after the first time he betrayed me, and when it happened the second time my friends got downright angry with me for even considering talking to him about it. I'd been in the reverse situation with a friend before and I understood why watching me hurt myself again and again made them angry. At the same time, I felt that, if they really were my friends, they'd support me regardless of what I decided.

The whole mess still isn't over and so my friends are still sort of watching me and silently shaking their heads at me. But these are people I've known for forever and I know they'll stick by me. Honestly, if your friend cannot respect your decisions (even if it's obvious that it's not the smartest decision), then maybe she's not such a great friend. There are some things we just have to learn the hard way.

As for dealing with it, really, I'm seeing that the best thing is just a good, clean break. I've spent way too much time trying to hold onto the relationship, even when it was quite obviously way past salvageable, and I wish now that I'd just cut him off sooner. I'm now going through the process of moving on that I could've/should've gone through months ago and I've really just post-poned the inevitable and dragged it on endlessly.

What is also important is to accept the relationship for what it was and to not let it be tainted by what you found out now. Because even if you know now that he was lying to you, it doesn't change the way you felt about him at the time, and you shouldn't start to regret that in retrospect.

By the way, as others have said, his 'willingness to seek help' and thereby tying him to you because he says he needs your help, just reeks of manipulation. It really is that much more likely that he deliberately lied, and in that case your help is the last thing he deserves or needs. I know that's hard to accept, and that you'll probably have to find that out on your own, but it's something to keep in mind.

Good luck!

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Johanna
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