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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Relationships » boyfriend and porn, am i just being stupid?

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Author Topic: boyfriend and porn, am i just being stupid?
Dreamer06
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Sorry this is so long, I just wanted to give all the details so people could understand the situation better.

I've been dating this guy for almost a year and a half, we're crazy about each other and currently living together, and as soon as we finish college we plan on getting married. We've never even had a single argument big or small. He's one of the best guys I've ever known, he's sweet as can be and treats me like a queen, anything I want he takes care of. I've actually never even had anything about him that bothered me in the slightest until recently, and thats porn.

I knew he used to look at it sometimes but I didn't think he did anymore. Not long ago we ended up getting into a conversation about guys and porn and he was talking about how he hadn't even look at porn in months. And after that I said I was glad because it would really bother if he did, and I tried explaining why it would bother me. But even times before that he's always said how he isn't really a big fan of it because he hates slutty girls. He won't even be friends with them because its disgusts him that a girl could degrade herself so much. And with us living together I'm with him every day and at least once a day, usually more, we either have sex or I give him a handjob/blowjob. So I never even really considered him looking at porn.

Well last week my computer was being fixed so I had to use his. Every time I would go to type a URL in the address bar I'd type the first letter and a list of websites would pop up that begin with that letter that had been viewed on that computer, and I noticed that a big majority of them were porn sites. He was sitting just across the room so I commented on it, and he was like oh those are old, I just havent cleared the history in a long time, and once again said he hadnt looked at porn in months. Then he was like "oh unless it was pic hunter, that was from this morning" and I guess b/c I didnt say anything right away he decided to add in the remark that he was just kidding. Well I noticed a website on there called cliphunter so I was like hmmm... Looked at the history and what did I find... tons of porn sites from that week alone. I didn't mention anything at the time, I just let it go for the moment.

Well then a few days later (which was like 2 days ago) somehow we got onto the topic of porn and I made a comment about him watching it and he again denied looking at any for months, so I called him out on it and told him to that I saw it in his history so he could stop hiding it. So finally he admitted it and said the reason he'd be lying was because he knew that I would be really upset about it because he knows how I feel about the subject. Which that just makes it worse, anyone lying to me about anything makes me even more pissed than if they'd just told me the straight up truth.

So then I tried explaining to him the reasons why I hate the idea of him jacking off to porn. For one thing, I don't have the highest opinion of my looks because growing up I got picked on pretty badly, so I'm a pretty jealous person. I was never jealous about anyone else, just him, because I've finally found what I want and don't want anything to happen to that. So just the thought of him being turned on by another girl makes my blood boil. Even though he says I'm absolutely gorgeous, I feel like all those girls look so much more attractive than I do so it makes me jealous and makes me feel bad that he's jacking off to them. And all he watches is lesbian porn so its not even just one girl. His jacking off to porn all the time also makes me feel like I'm not good enough, like I'm not enough to satisfy him so he has to turn to other sources(other girls).

When we talked about it the other night he said that's not it at all. He said that the reason he watches porn is because he has to so that he can concentrate and function right during the day. He says when he doesn't get off, he can't focus on anything and can't concentrate. For example, he can't even fall asleep at night unless he gets off first, even if I'm lying there too tired to help him out, he just jacks himself off quick so he can go to sleep(not to porn of course because Im lying next to him so that would be really awkward and he knows Id be pissed). I'm not around to satisfy him all the time because I have things to do during the day, and even if I was he says wouldn't want to push that on me because it would overwhelm me since he's such a horny person. He says thats because he naturally has so much excess testosterone in his body. Which I can believe because he's huge(muscle wise) and he just keeps getting bigger even though he barely works out.

So he told me thats why he looks at porn, so that he can function. And he says that whenever he does look at porn he's not really looking at the other girls, that hes envisioning me. Because as he tells me and everyone else who will listen I am the perfect girl, and everything that he wants. At this point in the conversation he seemed like he was almost in tears. He said that he didn't like admitting that he evisions me while watching porn because its really embarassing. And that he hated admitting that he watches porn at all because thats really embarassing too, according to him he doesn't WANT to watch it. He just has to get off so he can make it through the day.

I just don't understand it, maybe its because I'm not a guy, I don't know. But I don't really understand how he can't function without getting off. And another thing I don't get is, if he's really thinking of me while he's watching the porn, why does he need it at all in the first place, why couldnt just think of me and jack off without the porn playing. So I'm wondering if that stuff he said is really the truth or if he's just saying that to try to make me feel better. What do you think? What should I do? Am I crazy for even being bothered by it? I mean it makes me want to cry everytime I even think about him jacking off to porn, and in a way it's even affecting my libido because whenever I do anything sexual with him now I can't help but think of him jacking off to porn, and being disgusted and depressed isn't exactly the best mood for sex. I have no clue what to do but I really want to know how to get past this now before it gets worse. So Id appreciate any advice.

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Heather
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(Dreamer, I am just running out the door to see a friend's show, but this post is first on my list for when we get back home.)

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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Back now. Here's what I think.

I think your guy probably doesn't know what to say and is trying very hard to say the right thing more than the truthful thing, because he's scared to death of the consequences of all this.

Look, let's be frank: when he's whacking off to porn, he's not thinking about you, he's thinking about porn. Maybe he's inserting you into the fantasy, but he's still thinking about the porn. Which you'd probably prefer anyway, even if it doesn't really seem like it, because if you've seen any amount of porn, then you know that you don't want anybody inserting you into such terrible plot lines and really bogus sex that's a whole lot of people faking it for a living, okay? I know that's blunt, but I'm not seeing a lot of sense in being anything but. There are a lot of valid reasons to have objections to a lot of pornography, but I have to say that worrying it's competition is really something you should stop worrying about (which is not to say you don't still get to object to it: rather, just saying that if your esteem is that low that such absolute crap is a threat, you've got some self-work to do, too).

And to understand this stuff, you don't have to "be a guy." There's not a Y chromosome required to understand how people can be socialized into something, find theings familiar and comfortable, and habitualize things sexually. Mind, we're usually dealing with mostly guys when it comes to those things and porn, but that's primarily because a) it's men socalized this way, b) men who have cultural permission for this and c) who the vast, vast majority of pornography is made for.

You're not crazy for feeling bad about this, nor are you crazy for not being okay with porn in your life, just like a vegetarian isn't crazy for not wanting meat in theirs. It's a personal choice and personal ethics, and you get to have yours, full-stop, and you don't even need a reason. Mind, I'd suggest trying to work to separate your esteeem issues from this, because those are just yours, not his, but all the same, you get to have a preference.

And so does he. If he's in earnest about not WANTING to have porn in his life anymore, like any other sort of habit, he can choose to phase it out.

The way sexuality works, we do tend to -- as in most things -- work off of patterns. So, what we get used to arousing us or getting us off is often what gets us there the most easily. But if we want to change it up, we can do that: human beings are incredibly adaptable critters. If he wants to phase it out, he can start masturbating without it: it'll take some time, like any change, but it's 100% doable.

(FYI: the excess testosterone thing is iffy at best. I don't think he's meaning to lie to you, I just don't think he understands how the body works. Orgasm and ejaculation don't release testosterone, so while, yes, testosterone as a hormone is one big libido driver, orgasm won't fix a hormonal imbalance, and we also can always choose to channel that energy into a lot of different places: sex is one of them, but only one. If he thinks he has a hormonal imbalance, he should talk to his doctor. And while we're debunking, masturbation is different from partnered sex, so even if you WERE around to "satisfy him" 24/7, it'd not be advisable that you do. When we just want to get off, that's what masturbation is for: partnered sex is for when we want to get off AND want intimacy AND want to be invested in both of those things for a partner, capisce?)

So.

Can you two have another talk about this with this additional information? And can you do your best to set up an environment for talking where you make clear that the right answers -- or what he thinks the right answers -- are not as important as the truthful ones? Because, for instance, if he really doesn't want to use porn anymore, that's a managemable thing. On the other hand, if he does, but he just doesn't feel he can tell you that, you don't want to wind up with a long-term relationship in which he has to hide things from you and you keep having these discoveries; and if no-porn is a dealbreaker for you, then to make the best choices for yourself, you need to know if your partner wants to have pron in his life or not, for real, no matter how YOU feel about it, okay?

One last thing? ARE you just "servicing" him a lot? In other words, you say once a day or so, you're giving him manual or oral sex. Are you also enjoying yourself with this? Do you initiate this out of a desire to be sexual together? Does it arouse you and get YOU off? Is this about partnered sex, or about you trying to meet some sort of need you feel you must fill of his? Because if that's about service, not enjoyment, you've got another big sexual partnership problem brewing here, beyond the problems you have with pornography.

(Before we discuss this more, just one request. Let's please not call women "slutty" here, okay? I know you were just paraphrasing him here, but I want to make sure this conversation doesn't go in that direction, because I hear him saying women -- who what, enjoy sex? have it a lot? have more than one partner? -- degrade themselves in his mind, but assigning women identities based on a third-party perception of their sex lives IS degrading, as is presuming to know what esteem women who don't meet his sexual standards in some way hold themselves in. And obviously, it's pretty profoundly hypocritical, to boot, to talk about how women degrade themselves when you're in any way benefitting from that apparent degradation or using it to serve your own needs. And from another perspective, putting other women in the slut category never fixes anyone else's esteem problems, in case your mind goes that way at all. So, just tread lightly there, okay? Thanks.)

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Isanne
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I am going through a very similar thing right now. My thread is here:
http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=27;t=014956;p=1#000000

I don't know what to do. I hope that you two can come to an understanding.

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Who can say if I've been changed for the better, but because I knew you, I have been changed for good.

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Heather
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Well, by all means, let's all talk about this here if you like.

Understand that to some degree, this is new terrain sexologically speaking: yours is really the first generation where people are reared on porn from day one, and where it is SUCH a fixture to the degree that it is, both for those using it and those merely exposed to it.

So, in many respects, this is new territory, and there isn't a whole lot of study to work from, so we have to feel this out as we go some.

But, I'm seeing some commonalities -- beyond the partner porn use and your objections to it -- in both of your situations that I think give us some things to proactively work with.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Dreamer06
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There are a lot of valid reasons to have objections to a lot of pornography, but I have to say that worrying it's competition is really something you should stop worrying
---It's not that I'm worried about it being competition or a threat or anything like that, because I know it's not. I'm not afraid of him leaving me at all. I just can't stand the thought of him getting off while watching other naked chicks. And yes, it is a self esteem issue within myself, because I feel like I am inferior those girls. I know that I'm an attractive person, but I don't look perfect like that, and know that I never will, so it bothers me that that's what he's looking at all the time. He doesn't seem to understand why it bothers me when he watches porn, but yet in a way he's way worse than I am. He gets pissed whenever we're watching a movie and I think an actor in it is good looking, because he says it makes him feel inadequate. I mean he doesnt just get jealous, he gets mad, because he says he knows he could never look like that. So basically he's getting mad when I think an actor in a movie is good looking, although the actor is FULLY CLOTHED and I'm NOT getting sexual pleasure out of it. But yet it's perfectly okay for him to look at naked women and masturbate to them, even though he says he's imagining me, I'm really not buying that.

And while we're debunking, masturbation is different from partnered sex, so even if you WERE around to "satisfy him" 24/7, it'd not be advisable that you do. When we just want to get off, that's what masturbation is for: partnered sex is for when we want to get off AND want intimacy AND want to be invested in both of those things for a partner, capisce?)
---I understand that. I know masturbation is a completely different thing and you get a different pleasure out of it. I have no problem whatsoever with him masturbating because it's a perfectly normal part of human nature. I never expected that he would stop masturbating. I only have a problem with him masturbating to other girls.

One last thing? ARE you just "servicing" him a lot? In other words, you say once a day or so, you're giving him manual or oral sex. Are you also enjoying yourself with this? Do you initiate this out of a desire to be sexual together? Does it arouse you and get YOU off? Is this about partnered sex, or about you trying to meet some sort of need you feel you must fill of his?
---No, I'm not just "servicing" him. When I do it, it's because I want to, and I enjoy it. If there is a time I don't feel like it, then nothing happens.

I'm just completely confused on what to do. I can't stand the fact that he's watching porn, but it doesnt really seem like he will stop. I'd been trying to just accept it in my mind, but I was having a hard time rationalizing it just because it does bother me so much so I don't understand why he needs it.

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Heather
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Per your first paragraph, you are asbolutely in the right to be incredibly frustrated with the double-standard he's applying. I agree with you: that's absolute bull, and if he can't make the connection between how you feel about this and he does about that, then either he's just in a sort of intentional denial or he's just not being empathatic or compassionate.

One thing I want to toss at you is this, just as food for thought. Might you reconsider what "looking perfect" is? I mean, when I look at porn actresses, I don't see "perfect." In fact, once, years back, when I had a side gig reviewing some porn (a gig which didn't last for me, mostly because trying to take any of it at all seriously was just more than I could manage: all my reviews were like Mystery Sciene Theater episodes, not what the client wanted), I remember commenting that if I woke up with your average porn actress in my bed (I'm a lifelong bisexual, so), I would SCREAM and run, not be turned on. In other words, a "perfect" person, in my book, LOOKS like, acts like, an actual, real person. Plastic and silicone and bleach and acrylic nails and waved and airbursh-tanned, the whole nine yards isn't perfect, it's doctored; it's plastic.

Again, none of this is to say you should be okay with porn if you're not. Rather, it's to say that -- just for your own esteem stuff with any sort of media -- these women are not your competition. They don't want your boyfriend: this is their job. They just want to pay the rent. And they're not "perfect." They're created, doctored, etc. They might be perfect offscreen -- and you'd probably not even recognize them -- but that's not who they bring onscreen. Do you get what I'm saying?

I have some more theoretical things in my mind when it comes to the dynamics of your sex life -- nearly identical to what I'm seeing with the other poster here, too -- but we can only talk about those if you want.

I think the bigger issue, though, is this: a dealbreaker is a dealbreaker. If you can't be with a partner who uses porn, then you can't. And that means you need to choose not to be with partners who do, and only to be with partners who don't, if that is the deal.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Dreamer06
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Yeah, I get what you are saying about them not being perfect. It's just in my mind that they appear that way because I have a few imperfections that I have been seriously picked on for, so they've always really bothered me. I'm in the process of getting them both fixed so that I will feel better about myself, but nothing happens overnight so it's a process in the works. Although one is almost finished.

I understand the difference between perfect and real. We've talked before about how he doesn't want someone perfect, he wants someone real. Before he got with me, and even after, he's had plenty of chances to be with absolutely drop dead gorgeous women but he said that's never been what he's wanted. He wants a real person who has everything he's looking for on the inside. And he tells me that in his eyes I am the perfect girl. That I've got everything he's looking for personality wise, and that I am absolutely gorgeous, that no one has ever been able to turn him on the way that I do. He says that I am the only person he wants. Which I never doubted before, just because of the way he acts and all things the things he does for me, and also the things he's said to other people about me and our relationship. It's just now this whole porn thing makes me wonder if I really am all he wants or if he wants more and that's why he's turning to the porn.

Sure, I would love to hear the other theoretical things you are thinking. I'm always open to hear others opinions or advice.

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Heather
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(Fixed?)

Okay, let me toss something out there. Again, understand that a lot of this is theory. Sure, theory based on a lot of observations and a strong foundation in human sexuality, but like I said, some of this is new terrain.

That said: can I ask how YOU feel about YOUR own sexuality, totally separate from your partner, and your partners sexuality? Do you feel like yours is whole without his, or another partners? Does it feel autonomous, as if it could/does exist, entire, without him or another partner at all?

And another line of question, somewhat related to that one: what's YOUR fantasy life like. For instance, it is VERY common for BOTH men and women, during partnered sex, to engage in fantasy in their heads in which they are, say, in another location than they are, or where other partners are inserted -- mentally -- into the sex they're having with the one who is there. or even where that partner is a different person, or playing a different role, etc. When you masturbate, do you engage in fantasy outside your partner?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Dreamer06
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Yeah, I feel that my sexuality is whole without him. It felt whole before him or anyone else, and I know it would be the same without him, because its a part of me.

I actually don't have a fantasy life. When we are having sex I'm thinking about him and that's about it. It's not like we are in any location at all. Everything around us just becomes drowned out, nothing else exists except for the two of us.

And I actually don't masturbate. I used to, and I admit sometimes I would look at porn. But that was when I was single. When I began dating him, it all changed. I no longer had the desire to masturbate and am not even turned on by porn anymore, because he is all I want and just the things we do together completely satisfy my desires.

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Heather
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Okay, that's helpful.

Can you recognize that in those two things -- in not wanting to masturbate anymore, and in not having any sort of sexual fantasy -- that you're unusual in that respect?

This doesn't mean you're a freak of nature or anything like that, nor that, again, you're not valid in not wanting porn in your life or partnership. Also doesn't mean that those who DO still masturbate and do have fantasy lives "need" porn. But that situation isn't common, and IS outside the norm.

And it sounds like, in part, you're projecting your experience onto him. In other words, you once used porn, you once masturbated, you once fantasized, but you don't do those things anymore, or feel a desire to now that you're with him, and you have an expectation that he would or should be the same, even though that experience of no longer having those desires is very uncommon among men and women alike.

(And too, this might be part of the problematic dynamic per insecurities. If he's now basically 100% responsible for your sexual gratification, that's going to warp things a bit, to say the least. As well as perhaps leading you to presume that you're 100% responsible for his, or should be.)

[ 11-28-2006, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Dreamer06
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Ok, well I never really thought that that was unusual. I always thought that was part of what true love was, you find someone and you only want that person and no one else.

And with the way he always talked I always thought that he felt the same way I did. Because he's always talked about how I am what he wants in every way and he doesn't want anyone or anything else. And then just the way that he always talked badly about porn, I never thought he would really watch it. So it really bothered me when I found out because I started thinking maybe he doesn't really care for me as much as I do for him, so it upset me.

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Heather
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I think it's possible that unrealistic relationship models/ideals feed into these problems.

Because really, no. Even among most people very much in love, and very much choosing to be monogamous in various respects, it's incredibly unusual to still not find others attractive, to still not have a sexuality and sexual life (masturbation, fantasy) that exists outside their partnership.

(And it's also just struck me that actually, a partner having the idea that them and their partner are totally 100% in nothing but their own world, with nothing but them in it in their collective sexual consciousness is, really, in and of itself fantasy. It's monogamy/romance-based fantasy, in effect.)

And if you think about it, if monogamy was cumpulsory, it wouldn't mean very much for people to choose it, you know? Part of what makes monogamy meaningful and powerful is that it is an active, express choice, not a default.

Per your second paragrph, this is just SO complicated because there are so many factors at play. For instance, the fact that people can be turned on by things that, to some degree, disgust them, or which they are opposed to, or which are taboo to them. There are also issues of cultural acceptance, of what partners want to hear and will accept, and there is even the issue of sometimes sexual media having more power because it's thought not to be okay, or taboo, so the shame and such involved in feeling in needs to be hidden can make it a BIGGER turn-on.

And evn in talking about it, the environment between people is often so loaded that being truthful about feelings about it and use of it can be difficult, at best. If your partner percieved that there were certain right answers with you, it would not be at all uncommon for him to feel obliged to speak to this in that way.

And this is where it all boils down for me. To the fact that for those for whom pron is a dealbreaker, it's pretty vital to just come out and say that, full-stop, when it is. No ifs, ands or buts, no trying to sexually police or gatekeep partners, just a forthright given that if porn is a dealbreaker for you, then that relationship needs to end or no longer be sexual/romantic if there is porn.

[ 11-28-2006, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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candy2187
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I'm not expert but I've been in a relationship for about as long as you and I'm VERY close with my boyfriend like that. I can see some truth in your boyfriend's explanation, like that he needs to get off sometimes to focus better. My boyfriend used to look at porn when I wasn't around last year after he got home from school but it never really bothered me, I don't mind porn that much actually. Its funny how certain things just bother some people, like how some people are really jealous (I am slightly although I'm working on it)and others just don't get jealous.. and some are bothered by porn and others not (like me).

I guess I just realize that its nothing personal, and has nothing really to do with me. Altough porn probably wouldnt work out as well if the girls were very unnatractive, guys are probably just thinking mostly about what they're doing anyway-- not really imagining being with the girl instead of you.

And maybe he wasn't giving it up so fast because it makes so much sense to him that hes not doing it just to look at attractive girls, its just like any other thing he does. But still, if it bothers you so much you should try to compromise over it.. though it would be kind of tricky to find a solution that makes everyone happy in this situation.

[ 11-28-2006, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: BRiTT4270 ]

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Heather
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quote:
is maybe you guys could make a short video on a camera phone or he could have a picture of you and look at that instead of the porn? If it would make you feel better that he was looking at you instead of other girls. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Just FYI? I'm very uncomfortable with this suggestion being posted at Scarleteen, for a few reasons.

The biggest/most topical of them being that for a majority of our readership this isn't actually LEGAL to do, and for those under the age of 18, specifically, it would be distribution and ownership of what is legally classed as child pronography (becuase of being legal minors), which is a crime you or anyone you know does NOT want to commit, even in error, because the reprecussions are SEVERE and very serious.

I'm also not comfortable with any user being told that they c an't have absolute limits, and must always compromise. It is 100% okay for any person to have any aspect of a relationship, or criteria per a partner that is just a total no-go.

[ 11-28-2006, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Dreamer06
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Reading all of this and also looking at the advice given to others in my situation has help me come to terms with it a little bit. I'm kind of starting to get it in my head that it's just one of those things that pretty much everyone does and theres nothing I can do to really change that. I feel alot better about it now than I did when I first posted here, but it still bothers me. Especially just the fact that he feels he has to lie about it and pretend that nothing is going on. Like today, my professor let us out of class like 30 minutes early so I got back here earlier than usual. When I walked in he was on his computer, which is normal, because he's on there all the time. But I could tell from the way his clothing was situated that he'd just quickly zipped up his pants. I didn't say anything, but he tried to play it off like he'd just finished playing his game and was just checking his email. But I knew better. Especially since I know him so well and could tell from the way he was acting that he was horny. We ended up having sex a few minutes later, and when I took off his shorts, my suspicions were confirmed when I saw that he was completely sticking out of his boxers. All he'd had time to do was quickly zip his shorts before I'd walked into the room. And then he acted like he had no idea why he was so horny at the moment. I just hate the deception. It makes me wonder what else he would think about lying about. I plan on talking to him at some point and letting him know thats what really bothers me, if he didnt lie it about it so much I wouldnt feel half as bad about it. I just haven't figured out exactly what to say to him yet to try to make it as unawkward as possible so he doesnt feel too uncomfortable and just keeps lying.
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Heather
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Well, while pretty much everyone has some kind of sexual fantasy, and pretty much everyone is attracted to more than one person in the world, not everyone uses porn: so please do remember that if YOU do not want it in your life, you get to choose not to have it in there, and choose not to have partners who use it, or some types of it, if that is what is best for you, okay?

But without question, if you two are going to stay together, you've got to work out the honesty problem, pronto. Perhaps you can approach that by saying that you feel that THAT is the primary and biggest problem at hand, and you really want to try and work that out first and foremost?

(FYI? If you're uncomfortable with porn, period, setting up a situation where your partner is using porn as foreplay, or you're trying -- if you are -- to sort of beat porn to the punch by having sex with him when he wants masturbation or porn is likely to really make you feel lousy in the long run. heck, that sort of setup doesn't tend to feel good to plenty of people who ARE okay with porn and partners using it.)

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Dreamer06
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I personally would much rather prefer not having porn around period. But that is not one of the main factors I am looking for in a person I choose to date. Not to mention that I've never met an unattached guy who doesn't look at porn. Who he is as a person, how he treats me, and the chemistry between me and whatever guy I choose to date are the main factors. Porn is just a small issue that I've never really given much thought to before.

I really do love the guy I am with now and am looking forward to marrying him and all. This has been the only issue I've had with him big or small, and I really don't want to let something like porn completely break that up. It's not actually affecting our relationship so I shouldnt be worried about it so much.

I was thinking about things. Although I really hate the idea of him watching porn, I think maybe him being so secretive is what set it off so badly this time. At one point last year I found he'd looked at porn but he was honest about it. It did upset me b/c I didnt like the idea of him getting off to other girls. But it didn't bother me near as bad as it is now. It lasted like a day or so and then I just kinda got over it and forgot about it. But this time there was the whole shock factor. That he'd said he hadn't looked at porn in months since we're living together now, but then I found out he was just saying that and that he had been looking at porn the whole time. And I think that plus the fact that its been almost an every day thing. Last year it seemed like he was only looking at it from time to time, which wasn't so bad. But now it's an every day thing and so I've been thinking about it everyday and I just can't get it out of my head since it's been bothering me.

I see what you're saying about how trying to beat porn to the punch all the time can make a person feel bad, but thats definitely not what I was doing. I actually didnt have any intentions of having sex at the time, it just happened, as usual one thing led to another.

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Heather
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Sounds like you definately have some sound, postive directions to go in, since it's clear you want to continue this relationship with this person.

So, again, sounds like talking about the importance of honesty is key, as may be establishing some limits and boundaries about porn. It's totally reasonable, for instance, to ask for it not to be in common rooms, or be out at times you're home or might be, when you cohabitate.

Per it being daily right now, bear in mind that may be phasal. Libidos wax and wane, and to boot, it's possible that even the stresses and taboos of all this are making it more interesting to him right now than usual. If, for instance, part of the boost pornography is giving someone is that it feels "dirty" or "naughty," then situations which make it seem more so many only amp the appeal.

(I do just want to make sure stereotypes aren't being propagated here. There ARE attached and unattached men who don't look at porn, and plenty who actively choose not to because THEY have objections to it. Maybe you yourself haven't met them, but they exist, and not in the miniscule numbers you'd think, either. It's so important to remember that our small social circles are rarely sound representations of the world at large.)

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Dreamer06
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Thanks again for all your suggestions. It has really been helpful having someone to talk to since I don't really have any close friends I can go to that would understand.

As for the limits, there's not really much that can be done there. It's very out of sight which is why I never knew about it until about a week ago. It's all online stuff, and we each have our own computers, so I never know what he's doing online. The only reason I happened to find out was because my computer was being fixed so for a few days I had to use his. He doesn't have any saved on his computer, he just downloads a bunch of short clips off different sites, and deletes them as soon as he's done with them. The only reason I knew about it was because while I was using the internet I saw the URLS and download history. But now that I have my computer back I won't actually be seeing the porn, it's just that it's stuck in my head now b/c I know it's there and it's something I wish wasn't so I just keep thinking about it.

I'm going to talk to him sometime soon, but first I just want to figure out exactly what I need to say to him and wait until a time when we both don't have other obligations so that we'll have however much time we need to come to an agreement or whatever.

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Heather
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Of course: that's why we're here.

And I think it's absolutely sound - especially when you are in a long-term relationship you strongly feel invested in going the distance with, and it's clearly not an unhealthy one overall, or one you are otherwise unhappy with -- to take your time in figuring out how and when to best address an issue like this. Good call, there.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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x_bleeding_mascara
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I'm in a simular situation. I've been with my boyfriend for almost half a year now, and a couple of months just after we started going out, i found out about his 'love for lesbains' and how it really turned him on, and how he liked to watch lesbain porn. I really do love my boyfriend, but everytime the subject on lesbain porn comes up, he changes the subject as he knows i get really upset and angry at him because i hate the thought of him getting off watching other girls. It sometimes makes me think i'm not good enough and i get really upset, as i'm not totally confident with myself, even though he tells me i'm the most beatiful person he's ever met and i'm perfect in everyway. Even when he says this it still makes me wonder why he has to watch porn. At one point he did tell me he loved lesbains, and that two girls kissing was the hottest thing. This made me so angry and upset and spoke to him about it, but he just said that every guy has a thing with lesbains. This still makes me upset, because i do wonder if that is actually true? I know he fantasises about them, because when i asked why he loved them so much he just said it was the thought of the possible threesome. At this point i really thought i was going to have to end it with him. Was there another girl? Was i not good enough for him? I told him about it again, and he just said that he would be too scared to do anything else, and that it would always just be me and him. But now, everytime the subject comes up, i end up getting really upset and keep thinking that he doesn't love me, or that i don't satisfy him enough, and he just gets really angry. I really want him to stop watching lesbain porn, as its ruining our relationship, because i know everything would be perfect if he stoped watching it. I just need someone to talk to about it, because i fear my boyfriend is going to get so angry with me and break up with me and when i told my best friend, she old me that he was disgusting for doing that and said ' doesn't he think that you're enough?' I need some advice on what to do, or make me feel more confortable about it because i'm constantley getting more and more deppressed.

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J.Aikman

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Heather
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quote:
This made me so angry and upset and spoke to him about it, but he just said that every guy has a thing with lesbains. This still makes me upset, because i do wonder if that is actually true?
Lord, would that it were: lesbians -- the kind that live in the real world, with real partners -- would be treated a lot better in the world if that were so.

Unfortunately (well, in this regard, anyway) real-life lesbianism and porn lesbianism are and often look about as different as real-life women are to an airburshed supermodel.

He's not even watching lesbian porn: he'd probably not care for it very much. He's watching "girl-on=girl" porn made by men, for men.

That said...

... I think it's important for anyone in this situation to try very hard to separate fears of being dumped with what they really want and need, both from a relationship and from themselves.

In other words, do you want to live with this or not? And how much of this issue is about your own issues with your own self-esteem and how much of it is about the ways the porn may or may not be stifling the intimacy in your relationship? There's no one right answer to a question like that, it's just really helpful to figure out the answers so that you can have a good idea of what the issues really are when you bring them to the table.

For example, asking a partner to make some changes because you're having some esteem problems right now -- which is a valid thing to ask -- and asking a partner to consider ditching pornography or certain kinds of pornography because of your ethical issues with it, or because it's hampering your relationship are different things, with often different approaches and different results. (And if it's mostly or entirely about your esteem, then it's also going to be important, if you're asking HIM to help you in this way for you to also start doing somethings to work on that esteem for yourself, simply because no matter the issue, asking a partner to fix your esteem problems with what they do in their personal lives really is asking too much, on top of likely not fixing those problems.)

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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inquebaby
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my bf and i and porn is a battle.


for me, its been a 3 year battle and u can be ok wiht it but it took me 2 years then casue of him repsecting me less...im not fine wiht it anymore esp him hurting me with it.

im surprised i lasted this long with him but we got closer and that helped.

i can be more ok with it all and i actually did help when he was at the comp once and wiht a hentai book - HUGE step but he was being realllly neaurtoic wiht porn and hurting me on and off while doing these steps and taking advance and threatening me if i dont help him with a hentai book and othet stuff, so me being fine wiht it - ALL GONE...gotta start all over...we took a break...and seeing him for a couple weeks - im still unsure.


And now with CG and other stuff its harder

and ya because he has hurt me

i also 'service him'

and rub him before i go home alot so he doesnt go to them ASAP esp when im there..ya its mean but im trying to stop...i stopped a few imes and such, and seomtimes dont care but it would be nice if i felt more comfortable with him and he knows this...but.. ya...not sure if i wanna stay with him anymore but ya.

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starlet
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quote:
Originally posted by x_bleeding_mascara:
This made me so angry and upset and spoke to him about it, but he just said that every guy has a thing with lesbains. This still makes me upset, because i do wonder if that is actually true?

Definitely NOT true. While yes, a good portion of males enjoy watching girl-on-girl action, not all of them do. I once asked my boyfriend about it and he doesn't understand the appeal. He also doesn't understand the appeal of a threesome. So just know that not all men are into "lesbians" or threesomes and if you're with a guy who is pressuring you to have a threesome or wants to watch girl-on-girl porn and you're not comforable with it, maybe you need to find a better guy who will respect you.

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.:*starlet

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x_bleeding_mascara
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Thanks, for the advice, but I still really don't know what to do [Frown] it was only last night i was speaking to him on the phone again when this subject came up AGAIN. It was just when he said 'Oh and i know you won't do a threesome', but i just said 'Well WHY would you want to do it?'

He was like all quite for a moment and then he just said 'I'm not saying anything becuase you're just going to get upset and have a go at me again.' He KNOWS why this upset me, i've tried to explain so many times, how I think its disgusting and I think i'm not enough for him, and how it makes me think that theres another girl he's involved with.

But he just keeps telling me 'Oh you might change your mind' and 'Its just a fantasy, and you get to watch to girls doing stuff together and its hot'.

He is the type that usually gets what he wants, but I REALLY don't want to have a threesome. I just told him that it would break my heart to see him doing stuff with another girl, and that i think its cheating.

He knows all this I just don't think he listens. He brought up the subject a while ago, but he just said 'Don't worry, I'll only be me and you I'd be too scared to do anything else' I kinda forgot about it until it was brought up last night. I've been worrying all day.

As i've said, everytime this subect comes up he just doesn't say anything and when i start crying he just gets angry and tells me to stop being so stupid and that i should know that he loves me.

I'm getting to the point where i don't think i want to be with someone like that. He's just really starting to piss me off! Thankyou for the advice everyone btw. I'm going to speak to him again tonight, because if he is so desperate for a threesome, then i'm afraid i'm going, and he can go elsewhere to find one. It's his loss.

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J.Aikman

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Heather
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If you're talking again tonight, and you haven't done this yet, I think it's clearly past time to say -- very plainly and clearly -- that you have made expressly clear how you feel about this idea, that you have made expressly clear it is NOT something you are interested in, and that it is well past time he stop bringing it to the table. Period. End of story.

Someone who isn't respecting your feelings on something isn't respecting you or treating you with care. Someone who cannot acknowledge that you know your own mind by constantly saying you'll change it isn't treating you as an equal or with respect.

So, no matter what he will or will not do in the future, right NOW, he needs to let this go with you. if he can't - or more aptly, won't -- then it's probably a good idea to move on. Not because of maybe cheating, not because of whatever ideas one may have about what it means that he puts value in watching girls have sex together, but because no matter the issue, someone who can't accept a limit and boundary of yours, and place that in a higher priority than their sexual fantasy life isn't someone ready to be in a healthy intimate relationship with someone else.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Dreamer06
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Will an administrator or moderator please delete this??? Or at least delete my posts from it? It wont let me do it. I dont want my posts on here anymore cuz I dont want my b/f to see them, he would be so upset if he knew I posted this on here & this topic showed up near the top of a google search. I got all I needed from them so I dont need them up here anymore. So someone PLEASE delete this.
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September
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Dreamer, we do not delete posts by our users. Saving them can help other users who are searching for advice on the same topic.

Unless leaving the posts up compromises your safety in some way, we cannot remove them.

[ 04-15-2007, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: September ]

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Johanna
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"The question is not who will let me, but who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

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