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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Relationships » Quick question on love

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Author Topic: Quick question on love
000
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There are so many girls here who say they "love" some guy even though they're posting here b/c they have problems such as he wants them to do something they don't want to do, he talks down to them, etc. Personally, I don't think I could ever feel love towards someone who wanted me to do something I didn't want to do. Lust, sure, but not love. So does this sound like a matter of love meaning different things to different people? Does this mean, realistically, I'll probably never love a guy who I'm also sexually active w/? (I make the distinction b/c I would say I sort of love my male cousin and some male friends)
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dailicious
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Feeling romantic love, and exactly what that entails is entirely dependant on the particular person in any particular situation, because love may/does feel different to different people, and is one of those very complicated/deep emotions that can often simply not be explained or even fully understood.

There's no way we can tell you if you'll ever feel romantic love and sexual attraction to the same person, it's probable you will, but who knows, you may not, and as you know and we know, there are a lot of other things that are going to come first in YOU maturing and learning in your own relationships before that probably will happen, if it does.

Understand, as well, that it's just not easy nor is it usually accurate to try and understand the feelings and emotions involved in another's relationship, let alone an ABUSIVE relationship, have you never experienced a similar situation yourself (and even then it can be hard). Women (or men, whoever happens to be the vitim) in abusive relations very often DO love their abusers - not lust for, LOVE, and abusers can and often do use that to further control the people they are abusing.

There ARE women who have the support system in place, internally or through family and friends or both, who CAN get out of absuive situations when signs of abuse start appearing - but there are many who ignore/deny early signs, or fear responding to early signs, who DO get stuck in abusive and controlling relationships for a number of reasons, and trying to define why or if a woman in an abusive relationship can or does really "love" her abuser is just not helpful nor supportive, nor is going to be tackled easily in such a way. Make sense?

Love and feeling of love, whether it be familiar or platonic or romantic or sexual or what have you, can change and grow and mature as you grow older and experience more and build upon your relationships with people, and can change and develop and mature person to person, so again, trying to determine what "love" is for any person in any particular situation is never going to yield a lot, and trying to predetermine or reisgn yourself to your own fate/future in love is likely to be just as fruitless, for reasons I think I'm going to just be repeating from earlier soon.

[ 10-18-2006, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: dailicious ]

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September
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Also, just because there is a problem in the relationship at that point in time doesn't mean that the relationship is always unhealthy and always abusive. Fights happen, and that's okay.

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logic_grrl
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I think it's worth considering that "love" doesn't have to mean romantic "in love with someone" feelings, even in the context of a sexual relationship.

As you say yourself, you can love friends. Loving someone can be about caring for them deeply as a person, not necessarily a dramatic Romeo-and-Juliet passion.

Maybe you're not the romantic-love type - not everyone is,and as you've observed, feelings of romantic love certainly don't guarantee the health or quality of a relationship.

But that doesn't mean you can't care about and like someone who you're also sexually active with.

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000
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I guess I don't really understand "romantic love" vs. platonic love. I mean using your example of Romeo-and-Juliet and calling that romantic love, I guess I'd just think of romantic love as similar to platonic love, but stronger. I romanticize things in my head all the time -but when it comes to reality I'm probably so practical it hurts. To me it's obvious, if someone is asking for sex that you have not indicated wanting like it means a lot to them, they don't love you. Or maybe they do love you, but it's sort of in a paternalistic way (they think they own you). Anyway, I have so little problem abandoning situations that are threatening my personal freedom, that I don't understand how other people can feel so attached.

Maybe this is partially like a Madonna/Whore complex directed at guys though -I do have a hard time seeing my friends in a sexual context except in a very abstract way, b/c to me it's like this totally other thing. As cool as I think sex is, it definitely has this embarassment factor tied to it somehow. It's almost like the guys I'm attracted to and the guys I'm friends with are separate classes of people in my mind. One is not necessarily better than the other -but they're very, very different. Even if I really enjoyed sexual activity I had with someone -seeing them in another context, dressed, and trying to talk to them like we're friends when I have a 100 images in my head of what it was like to be sexual with them feels sort of embarassing/gross, and a bit like my mind/personality is disjointed. But also with the guys I'm friends with, we're totally equal; we make inappropriate jokes and talk about sex, and gender roles is never going to be an issue. In a relationship context, I don't know how to feel in control w/o a thousand thoughts about gender roles, how I'm either just fulfilling them or trying to rebel against them, if not just biology, means I can't see myself as the same as a partner. So I don't know how to associate the same sort of love/trust with partners that I do with friends. I still wish someone could explain to me how they can do that, in a way that made sense to me, w/o me feeling like they're simply ignoring the facts. Is there anyone else out there who usually doesn't think of themself as a "girl" as opposed to just a "person", who feels like it majorly messes with their head when it comes to relationships? (E.g. I don't think I've ever witnessed a bf/gf couple where the girl didn't at some point act "cute" in return for affection. If there's one thing I try to avoid, it's acting "cute".) (I've largely suspected for awhile that part of the reason so many powerful/smart women throughout history have been gay or bi, is b/c they like to experiment with wearing the pants in a relationship/being in control, but maybe some people would disagree with me.)

[ 10-18-2006, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: iheartdc ]

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Heather
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I really just feel like -- and pardon me if I sound like I'm being dismissive or simplistic -- this boils down to the intimacy issues you have and have discussed before, iheartdc.

(Also? You're presuming an awful lot about queer relationships here. Hierarchy and power issues aren't a given in any given relationship, and a lot of the reason plenty of lesbian women and women in same-sex relationships appreciate them is in being able to get AWAY from that, not merely have the chance to overpower another woman.)

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summergoddess
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In a past relationship, an boyfriend wanted me to pursue things further with him but I didn't want to. I made the sound decision to leave him and the relationship even though it was only short (a couple months) because I couldn't be respected for my beliefs and for other reasons. I also realized that I wasn't loving him and wasn't in love with him either.

Love is defined in many ways. I love my best friends (both girls and guys) platonically (in this sense, not in a romantic and sexual sense). I love my family unconditionally because I was born to my parents and have blood relations to my brothers, aunts/uncles and cousins. I love and am in love with my husband both romantically, sexual and platonically.

Lust is basically being attracted to someone sexually ONLY.

I agree with Heather. It does seem that your questions do link to intimacy issues. Working on yourself and loving yourself can get you out of that knot. Once that's worked out, you can have the ability to open yourself to someone that would be fantastic as you. But because you have intimacy and trust issues, you close up everybody since you don't believe in yourself. You have to believe in YOU before you can do anything else outside of the relationship with yourself. Make sense?

[ 10-18-2006, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: summergoddess ]

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Heather
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(Actually, a more literal -- and accurate -- defintion of lust would not be being sexually attracted to someone, or only being sexually attracted to them. Rather, lust is about desire -- not just sexual --without restraint.)

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summergoddess
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thank you for clearing up that definition of lust, heather [Smile]

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000
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No I think you're probably right. "Intimacy issues" -b/c I think the way I react to things is so similar to the pattern of men when people say they have "intimacy issues".

It's sort of frustrating and confusing, b/c I think I'm fairly good at understanding these things on an intellectual level. I know I'm a fairly good critical thinker. I know a fair amount about human sexuality on an intellectual level. I'm also being trained as an advocate for victims of sexual assault on my campus, b/c after a friend of mine had a bad experience I really want to learn how to deal effectively with issues of abuse. I'm fine with dealing with people on most levels -I'm an activist, I do have friends. I believe most people who know me think I'm relatively confident and fun, if a little strange and perhaps sometimes awkward. And like a good liberal, I /do/ care about virtually everyone in my life, unless I have a good reason to dislike them.

I just have such a hard time having cohesive thoughts and consistant emotions over a length of time, and sometimes I feel so caustic. Self-doubts come and go from a variety of sources. I mean I don't think they're totally unsubstantiated, but a lot are related to things that happened years ago and I realize such thoughts /are/ unproductive. And under doubt, I tend to act on the premise that people don't actually like me very much/have a right not to like me. For some reason I feel that saves my pride (as opposed to the possibility of having false hopes, I suppose), but of course it usually ruins any chance I'd have for something more positive to happen. (E.g. since I was little, I've had a really hard time accepting affection unless it came from someone I would like, trust with my life.) I don't know what to do -b/c how I feel about things varies from time to time, and I might even have a bunch of thoughts about what may be going on in any given sensitive situation, and I'm not sure which one I believe the most. I've been told I suffer from over-thinking things -but not to do that is sort of like saying "don't think of an elephant", you know?

Maybe a good relationship would help my thoughts processes to become more positive and more cohesive/consistant, but I also think in order to have a relationship I need to be able to communicate better, and not act quite so spastic, so it seems like a bit of a chicken and the egg scenario. I still think just with experience I'll get better. (FYI I have learned that the musician has like The Most Generic Name Ever, being that there are like a couple dozen in every city, so calling him is not really an option. The band is touring a couple hours away at the end of the month -I realize going to a show could also be a bad idea (ops, anyone?). I think it's nice the band is becoming more popular -I find the fact that according to myspace a few thousand 15 yr-old girls want to marry/bang him both cute/hilarious and disturbing.) There's also this cute freshman at school who I think might like me -we really don't see each other that often though, so I guess I'll have to wait and see how/if things progress...

[ 10-18-2006, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: iheartdc ]

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000
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sorry about the essay -I wish I didn't make everything into an essay. So what do people think? Is 2 hours too far to travel to see someone who may or may not want something to do with me? If I could make it a weekend trip to chill with friends, so going to the show was more of an accessory, does that make it more acceptable? (I'm just having a hard time putting this into perspective -I think if I was travelling across the country and some random guy I'd hooked up w/ came to see me, I'd be flattered, unless I'd thought of it as a bad experience, in which case seeing someone I then would have hoped not to see again could be really stressful.) I mean at least this isn't the 80s rock scene -I definitely don't sense copious amounts of drugs, sex, and taking advantage of women is the name of the game... so I think the worst that could happen is avoidance/rejection, but I /do/ think it could make me look like a groupie, in a laughable way. I may know enough to weigh pros and cons of taking the risk, but sometimes I do something and later look back and think "wow that was incredibly stupid", so I just want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything.
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September
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quote:
Originally posted by iheartdc:
(E.g. I don't think I've ever witnessed a bf/gf couple where the girl didn't at some point act "cute" in return for affection. If there's one thing I try to avoid, it's acting "cute".)

I noticed this and y'know, you seem to think like that a lot: that you want to seem like you're one thing or another, that you want to be percieved in certain ways, etc. And really, if you spend so darn much time playing the role of the person you think you want to be/others expect you to be, it's no wonder that you're feeling insecure and unable to allow intimacy. You're always wondering whether you're playing your role convincingly, and you can never 'let go' because that would mean being yourself.

Might be worth your time to look into why you feel the need to always be performing, and how that ties into your intimacy issues.

[ 10-19-2006, 03:01 AM: Message edited by: September ]

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Johanna
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000
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/Everything/ we do is influenced by culture, so I really don't think you can separate "being yourself" from that. Heck, I don't know what "being myself" means -I'm rarely perfectly at ease. I'm a fairly multifaceted person, and I play different roles at different times, and no action seems to result in me feeling particularly "myself" moreso than any other thing. My conclusion? I am me -who else could I be? Being me just seems to come with some emotional baggage and anxiety, that I try to work through...

"that you want to seem like you're one thing or another, that you want to be percieved in certain ways, etc."

The problem, I think, is not simply that -the problem, I think, is that no matter how I act, I am analyzing why I do it and how I am perceived. It's true even when I act initially very much from a gut feeling. When you're used to analyzing things, it's very difficult to stop. When you were strongly influenced growing up by a mother w/ a rigid yet disjointed/often contradictory sense of disgust for various roles culture will want you to play, it adds another level of complication.

Now going to a city a couple hours away for the weekend, and going to a show and kind of like throwing myself at this guy would, I think, come very much from the gut. But does that mean it's a good idea? Does that mean it's "being myself", or just me deluding myself? Isn't it a societal stigma of agressive women that would cause me (or others) to characterize it as "throwing myself" at the musician to begin w/? (and if that's the case, should I ignore it, or heed it b/c he might feel go along w/ the stigma).
You see what I mean? Those are all the thoughts I had in like 30 seconds. I drive myself crazy, and things don't get any clearer. A lot of things I do/things I say that I feel come from my gut, wind up, in the /best/ cases, making people uncomfortable around me (that I know for a fact), and that doesn't help my self-esteem. Probably going to sound like Gnarls Barkley here: but I think that if /you/ think you are simply "yourself" and not influenced highly by expectations (of culture, of yourself, of family, etc.) you're crazy (just like me). (for the record, I'm pretty sure acting "cute" has much more to do with culture than nature -I believe people normally do it b/c of the reactions they'll get, so it seems to me that would also be performing.)

[ 10-19-2006, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: iheartdc ]

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000
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I really would appreciate some feedback on my idea of going to a show a bit aways to say hi to this guy. The last time I asked, someone just suggested I call him, and I've explained why I can't do that. I can and probably will ask my friends for input/to come to the show w/ me, but they're about as dreamy/impractical as I am when it comes to boy stuff, so they may be biased. I think someone who just has more experience in the world, or someone who has experience with unplanned/ambiguous hookups might have more of an idea for what actions would be "kosher" on my part, and less likely to result in me feeling stupid.

What do I want? Umm... just to hookup, I think, or maybe just to see what happens... or maybe best of all to clear up the other night to say I had a good time and I want to be friends and hopefully get his # so if the band comes through my place he's got somewhere to stay. More complications I haven't already made clear are that this particular weekend away from home I'd be staying in a dorm that wasn't mine, the band would prob be staying in some random people's space, he's 27 (thus even if he didn't just see me as like a groupie might be afraid of me being stereotypical younger, clingy girl I suppose). This is hard. I know people on these forums keep telling me there are more options than just "committed, loving relationship" or "1-night hookup" but I sure don't know social rules to facilitate any other kind of arrangments.

[ 10-21-2006, 02:49 AM: Message edited by: iheartdc ]

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Heather
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I really think you're putting too much on this, for something you say you consider casually.

How do you go to say hi? You go to the show, you at some point let a stage manager know to tell him that you're at the show if he wants to say hello, and that's the that. he then either seeks you out or he doesn't.

If he does, then you figure out how you want to take it from there.

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000
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"for something you say you consider casually."

What do you mean by that? Hooking up w/ him was kind of a heck of a big deal for me, if it hasn't been previously obvious. I'm just not looking for a committment at all, b/c that would make absolutely no sense. I wasn't really asking how to get to talk to him once I got there, but rather should I go at all. I don't know, b/c the last two times I was interested in someone both resulted in rejection-type avoidance, and I was depressed more severely each time. So if this guy wouldn't even talk to me? Depending on my mood, I might feel really, really bad about myself, and also feel trashy. Part of what screwed up my ability to communicate w/ him to begin w/, was how convinced I was that he was better than me and he /knew/ it, and that he just wasn't being choosy in getting w/ me. His actions never particularly indicated that kind of mindset though, so I think that belief of mine just comes from what my mom and cousin and everyone else in my family has always told me about guys, and ways I've heard some guys talk about girls. But if he ignored me, like didn't even want to talk to me, I'd automatically feel like all those things are true. I don't understand how some people can sort these things out psychologically -not let madonna/whore complex affect them, not worry about everyone thinking they're lame, etc. (I told my sister about how he looked deep into my eyes and was doing other cute gestures that were messing w/ my head -and she was just like "that's b/c he's been w/ so many girls he knows what they like, it doesn't necessarily mean he thought you were particularly cute or likes you...") I mean, does this sound like if it matters to me if someone is attracted to me or not, that I shouldn't try to get with that person b/c I can't handle it?

Of course, what I'd say to him, hypothetically, once I got there /would/ be an issue, but as anxious and as crazy as my brain gets when I'm feeling sheepish, I don't really expect anyone else to be able to tell me how to act. If I can manage just to be honest when I really like someone instead of being defensive and mean, that would be like a huge improvement. But really, if I'm in the mood, flirting or hitting on someone is like no problem for me.

[ 10-21-2006, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: iheartdc ]

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Heather
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Here's the thing, iheartdc.

In almost every post, we read through your stuff and it is just mixed-message city.

Youn say you don't want sex/relationships to be anything but casual, you aren't investing much...then you say it's a huge big deal and you are.

And we've said as much before, but I will say it again, even though I gotta be honest, I don't know why it should need to be said again.

You just can't have a LOT of emotional stuff riding on what is supposed to be casual sex and expect to be healthy and okay. You can't be torn to shreds by rejection, but then only set yourself up for more casual relationships where rejection is always a way bigger issue. I won't say that's insane, because I'm not sure it's quite that, but at the very least, it's pretty silly, and more accurately, it's really self-defeating.

If you're not up to being casual about casual sex, then it is supremely foolish to keep having it or pursue it. And clearly, this is NOT casual for you, and clearly you cannot come to these scenarios without a LOT of expectation and the need for a LOT of validation.

So, I guess I've come to the point where I have to say that I kind of don't believe you when you say you don't want commitment. I believe you when you say you don't want ROUTINE, or maybe even to be committed to only one partner, but you absolutely seem to want some sort of guarantee with a partner that is more than is sage to expect with casual partnership.

[ 10-21-2006, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather
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Point is, in case it was unclear, you're asking how to arrange something that really can't be arranged. There is no way to set all of this up to assure this guy will be interested again, or assure you won't face rejection.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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But there's nothing about this scenario that says to you automatically: "bad idea"?
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Heather
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I don't think you're hearing me.

For you? Yes. It totally says bad idea, because you're pursing something casual which you CANNOT treat casually and which is not casual for you, AT ALL, no matter how much you want to present it like it is sometimes, or to that person. As I've said to you before, given all you've posted, I really think that it'd be a great idea for you to sort a lot more of your own stuff out before you date more, at all, in any respect.

For someone who IS earnestly casual, and for whom this all isn't largely about self-validation, and who doesn't want, in some way, to treat partners casually, but at the same time, somehow expects them to in many respects, not be casual about her at all (while oxymoronically agreeing to a casual scenario)? No, it seems fine and dandy. But that's not you.

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Maybe I don't know the definition of "casual". First I believe like posts ago you said you think it's wrong to dehumanize sex. Then when I explained I don't think I do dehumanize it, that I always like people, and that I especially like /this/ person (from the little I know of him), you're saying it's not casual. To me "casual" just means you're not in a relationship. How am I wanting to treat partners more casually than I want them to treat me? I'm not seeing it -but maybe if you explain it for me, I'll understand.

I also don't think it's "largely about self-validation". It's mostly b/c I have a crush on him/like him. My attraction to him is not caused directly by any status that my brain assigned to him.

(But when I'm very attracted to someone I often assign some level of status to them -I seem to believe that they're objectively "wow", and that everyone knows it. I know b/c when I'm with someone I don't find as attractive, I don't get insecure. It may seem a little like chicken and the egg, but I'm fairly sure attraction comes first.)

I don't know how to sort out my own stuff. Thinking about it doesn't get me anywhere. Talking to a counselor isn't much different than doing rigorous thinking on your own. The longer I go w/o dating, the sadder I get.

[ 10-21-2006, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: iheartdc ]

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Heather
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Reread this, would you?

quote:
I don't know, b/c the last two times I was interested in someone both resulted in rejection-type avoidance, and I was depressed more severely each time. So if this guy wouldn't even talk to me? Depending on my mood, I might feel really, really bad about myself, and also feel trashy. Part of what screwed up my ability to communicate w/ him to begin w/, was how convinced I was that he was better than me and he /knew/ it, and that he just wasn't being choosy in getting w/ me. His actions never particularly indicated that kind of mindset though, so I think that belief of mine just comes from what my mom and cousin and everyone else in my family has always told me about guys, and ways I've heard some guys talk about girls. But if he ignored me, like didn't even want to talk to me, I'd automatically feel like all those things are true.
Or this, and note the pretty intense inconsistencies in what you're saying in one paragraph:

quote:
But I'm really not holding high expectations for who he is as a person or anything, other than the fact I think he might be interesting -but I don't necessarily think I'd get to know him. That night I totally wasn't expecting anything more than one night, which is why I didn't act in a manner conducive to anything more. But now I can't stop reminiscing about it and it's really distracting. I'd rather know that another hookup was a go or no go, I think, than remain addicted to a fantasy.
You don't have high expectations, but you're addicted to the fantasy? Huh?

And then in other posts, you talk about not wanting to have an investment in the person you're wioth, but if you can read what you say and not see ALL the investment -- usually about proving you're good enough for someone to casually bonk and want to bonk again, which isn't exactly any big thing: a lot of people will have sex with whoever is available, gal -- I really, really don't know what to tell you.

You ARE seeking out a relationship here. Not a cpital-R one, but look: you connected once, you want to do it again, and you've talked about wanting to see if this is something that could be somewhat of a pattern, where when he's in town, you see him. That's a relationship, babe. And when if you get rejected or not makes you "severly depressed," that isn't casual. casual sex is just what it sounds like: when the people involved could take it or leave it, but when it's around, take it if they're in the mood because it feels nice, but would also just as easily forget about it.

Really, iheartdc, my impression is more and more -- and I give you, I could be mistaken -- that because to you, "relationship" equals what your parents are, you've decided that there's a certain cool or portection in seeking out things in a way that SEEMS more casual, where you're not asking for commitment, but yet, here you are, basically asking the impossible: if we can tell you a way to casually connect with someone and be assured you won't be rejected.

And since that is a given in interactions with people, and far MORE of one in casual connections -- which most folks who seek those out do because rejection is NOT a big issue for them, because it is MORE likely to happen with someone you barely know than with someone who invests care in you over time, this just keeps seeming more and more.... well, senseless.

Talking to a counselor IS different than just talking on your own. And if it's not, then neither is talking here, which leads me to ask why then you do? Or at least, inclines me to tell yourself to ask that.

I really do think you'd benefit from a good therapist: remember, you can shop for one until you find someone you like and feel good about. An objective third party sees things from a perspective we can't see subjectively. And yet again, I'd advise it. Especially since at this point, spinning in circles with us here -- which is what this feels like from our end, I have to tell you -- doesn't seem to be doing much, and is getting pretty frustrating on our end, however hard we're trying.

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I like this forum b/c you can get multiple perspectives.

On counselors:
I don't know. I've been to about 4 different counselors, 3 of whom were free through various schools I've been at. Didn't really do anything I couldn't have done for myself -counsellors can't help you control all your emotions, I think. Two told me I was good at thinking about things for myself. My understanding is they can just help you self-reflect, not provide answers. I can't afford a private counsellor anyway.
quote:
if you can read what you say and not see ALL the investment -- usually about proving you're good enough for someone to casually bonk and want to bonk again, which isn't exactly any big thing: a lot of people will have sex with whoever is available, gal
Reading stuff like this just frustrates me so much. Maybe it's true of "a lot of people", but not generally the people I like. Or maybe I'm just really, really unattractive? The last two guys I was sort of friends with and I liked and then came onto (b/c I would have been interested in a friends-with-benefits type thing or a relationship) started /avoiding/ me. Does that happen a lot? And I have a hard time believing people want sex very much with the same person again if it was bad the first time, unless they just think that person is all-around amazing.
quote:
You ARE seeking out a relationship here. Not a cpital-R one, but look: you connected once, you want to do it again, and you've talked about wanting to see if this is something that could be somewhat of a pattern, where when he's in town, you see him.
According to urbandictionary.com, that is undeniably describing "casual sex". Irregardless, that was really just an idea. I might not want that at some point in the future, and he might not want that. I think I'd gotten an idea for that kind of arrangement as much from you as from anywhere. All I know is right now, currently, I'd like to try being with him again. I guess I feel like if I got with him again, then chances of us being on a friendly basis from then on are greater, even if he didn't want to do anything sexual on a regular basis -maybe my thinking is flawed though...
quote:
if we can tell you a way to casually connect with someone and be assured you won't be rejected.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I was never asking for that, b/c I realize that's not possible, seeing as no one is psychic. Really I was just asking for what might up my chances, and I was curious about ways to go about it that would make me look like less of a loser. That term sure seems to get thrown around a lot in reference to people who appear to assume an unsubstantiated level of familiarity with someone. Why, Scarleteen has an old thread that involves a bunch of kids here putting down groupies (not saying you would endorse such a thread, just saying that clearly a lot of people think in these terms). I used to work in a bar, as you may remember. Now, anyone hitting on someone else in a bar is putting their neck on the line, but there are some ways to do it that between most people will be "better" -making rejection less likely, and a whole lot less painful if it occurs.
quote:
You don't have high expectations, but you're addicted to the fantasy?
Yep -that pretty much sums it all up. Do you mean that seems contradictory to you? I guess it doesn't to me -I feel that way about schloads of things. I'm really good at imagining things or reliving things in my mind, and it can make me feel some good things pretty strongly, but I still make a point of keeping it separated from reality.
quote:
rejection... is MORE likely to happen with someone you barely know than with someone who invests care in you over time
Once again, this I don't get. I have been rejected far more by friends I've hit on than by cute casual encounters I've hit on.

[ 10-21-2006, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: iheartdc ]

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Heather
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quote:
Reading stuff like this just frustrates me so much. Maybe it's no big thing for you, or for most people. Most people also seem to want to tell me that it's not hard to get a guy to orgasm. What should I conclude from all those assertions? That I'm sexually inept? That I'm just really, really unattractive? The last two guys I was sort of friends with and I liked and then came onto (b/c I would have been interested in a friends-with-benefits type thing or a relationship) started /avoiding/ me. Does that happen to most people? And I have a hard time believing people want sex very much with the same person again if it was bad the first time, unless they just think that person is all-around amazing.
Neither of those conclusions is what I'd suggest.

Rather, that you conclude that putting SO much worth in someone choosing you for casual sex isn't so smart, since most people aren't so choosy about their casual sex partners. And that even if the sex is great, plenty of people won't want a rematch, for the same sort of reasons YOU say YOU often don't: the whole draw was a lack of routine and commitment.

If potential repeat parters are avoiding you, I'd be willing to bet it's not about you being good or bad in bed, but about them catching the same sort of vibe from you we are here: that your statements this is all casual aren't believeable, and that you're putting more stock in this stuff than the other person wants to sign unto.

Frainds you've hit on, for the record, aren't in the same ball park as someone invested in a sexual/romantic relationship with you.

I'm fraid I have seen that movie, and I'm one of the few people I know who really didn't like it. All I kept thinking while watching it was "Good god, get OVER it, and while you're at it, how about a plot for those of us over here in the cheap seats?" [Smile]

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"If potential repeat parters are avoiding you..."

Well I haven't had that tested yet one way or the other, actually. Normally I'm not particularly invested one way or the other in what I'd term "casual" stuff. When I have previously freaked out about performance, it has been more with people I was in more of a relationship with (though I'd hesitate to say capitol-R). And it has typically been less about being good enough they'd want to see me again, and more about wanting to feel like I had more determination in how stuff went down. Just wanted to clear that up.

This guy I've been /obsessed/ with lately though, is like a totally unique circumstance. In the way it happened, in how similar he was to a lot of daydreaming I've done since middle school, and in my complete cluelessness as to how he viewed the situation. (Another thing is b/c I like him I don't want to make him uncomfortable, you know. I'm very pro-guys-being-good-sex-partners. I'd hardly want to knowingly act as a disincentive for him being a fun one-night stand, by showing up if he wouldn't want it. Then again, he'd talked about being homesick and stuff, w/ moving around so much, so maybe sleeping w/ someone was more than just sex, but also a comfort to him (and that would explain the annoyingly endearing cutesiness)? Grr-k these are more questions I can't answer. I'll just stop.)

"how about a plot for those of us over here in the cheap seats?"

That I'll grant you. [Wink] I was still glad I watched it: (Barry: "I'm lookin' at your face and I just wanna smash it. I just wanna ****in' smash it with a sledgehammer and squeeze it. You're so pretty."
Lena: "I want to chew your face, and I want to scoop out your eyes and I want to eat them and chew them and suck on them.") [Big Grin]

[ 10-22-2006, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: iheartdc ]

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Surely if all you wanted was the casual shag, you wouldn't need to question it? You'd just go for it. And if you got rejected u would mind, and u wouldn't take it personally.

It doesn't seem to me that is the case. And so i don't think you can deny that you want something more.

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"And if you got rejected u would mind, and u wouldn't take it personally."

I don't think that is necessarily the case. That's one definition of casual, perhaps. Another definition of casual though is just that you're not looking for a longer-term committment. I think most people bring at least part of their ego to the table when dealing with any kind of sex.
(Plus, honestly, it's not like I know him well enough to know if I'd want more, even if he lived in the same place I do and everything. All I really know is that he's relatively nice and very, very sexy according to my preferences.)

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If you don't know him, but ur willing to trust him with your feelings that's a bit reckless?

You said that your feelings DO come into it.

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I didn't say my feelings. I said my ego. There's a slight difference, I think (when I think "feelings" I think of wanting people to feel a certain way emotionally towards you. whereas here I'm really just concerned about physical attraction). Feel free to disagree with those definitions. Anyway, all sorts of people can have an effect on our feelings/ego on a day-to-day basis, whether we know them or not. At least, that's the way it works for me. If some random person tells you they like your shirt, or if someone who interviewed you doesn't give you the job, for instance. "Trusting them" with your feelings is really not the issue -you don't have to trust someone to be willing to take actions where their response will have an affect on your feelings. I certainly would be no less worried about trying to initiate something physical with someone I knew/a friend, when I wasn't sure how they felt towards me. (see above, when I mentioned rejections by friends and being hurt)

[ 10-22-2006, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: iheartdc ]

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I think maybe another thing I need to clarify here, is that a big part of my hesitation is the hassle it would be to make the trip. It means more is at stake, on my end. If he was coming through this city, I'd go try to meet up with him for sure. (I'd even make sure I'd have a private room available, this time) I feel like making a trip to another city and showing up looks fairly aggressive, on my end. Maybe in that way I'd agree with you it's not just casual. And while we're all obsessed with way more people over the years than we typically admit, most of us don't like knowing people are obsessed with us unless we are really attracted to them back. follow?

Of course my friends were all like "Ohmygosh go for it, and tell me how it goes!" My friends are a little too entertained by my stories for my own good, I'm afraid. I know I think too much.

[ 10-23-2006, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: iheartdc ]

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