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Author Topic: lack of vaginal lubrication + painful intercourse
Anne9191
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Hi everyone!

I am a healthy 23 year old and I use the NuvaRing as birthcontrol.

For about a year now (around the time I started using this kind of contraception), I have noticed that my vagina seems to produce a LOT less lubrication than before, making lubricant necessary. About 6 months ago, I started feeling a weird pain during intercourse and light bleeding afterwards. I saw a specialist who examined me and did a pap smear, as she saw nothing wrong. The pap smear came back normal, except for signs of an infection. (By then, my partner was complaining that he saw very frequent discharge during sex). I followed the treatment I was assigned and things got a lot better.

However, this was 3 or 4 months ago. I still experience bad pain and zero lubrication. The pain is around the entrance of my vagina and it's litteraly as if the penis just couldn't penetrate it, as it is so tight and dry. If my partner forces it, it'll be very painful, eventually getting a lot better after a few minutes, as if I needed to "warm up".

I also have no sexual desire at all, even if my partner is extremely attractive and me being very much at ease with my body. I can have sexually-arousing dreams, fantasies and the will to masturbate, but no desire at all for actual intercourse. I feel like it is a boring activity that is painful at the beginning, takes time, gives me no pleasure and requires washing afterwards.

Please note that no sexual partner has ever given me an orgasm from penetration alone. I am only able to reach orgasm through stimulation with vibrating devices and never otherwise. Also note that my partner is not into foreplay. He will initiate things and will be attempting to penetrate me in less than 60 seconds.

Any advice is welcome. People who have gone through this, who think they might have a solution... thanks in advance!

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Heather
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So, the lubrication issues may be due to your ring (and might happen for you with any combined hormonal method).

How do things feel for you in terms of the pain when you use a lubricant before starting any kind of genital sex -- not just intercourse, any direct touch or sex per your genitals -- and add more as needed?

You say your partner wants to begin intercourse with you right off the bat. Here's the thing about that: that is unlikely to work for ANY receptive partner he has, save very rarely. In any sexual activity where he were the receptive partner, like with receptive anal sex, I can all but guarantee you that this wouldn't work for him, either.

So, setting aside what is going on with you? That's probably something he's going to have to figure out how to change, because it's obviously not going to work out for you, but honestly, it isn't likely to work out for *anyone* whose body is being entered.

In other words, for pretty much any receptive partner, pretty much always for entry to not be painful, let alone feel good? The body -- and mind -- needs time to 'warm up." This isn't just you, nor is this unusual.

Have you discussed that with him?

Have you also discussed that you, as you say, do not have any desire to have intercourse in the first place (you say you have no sexual desire, but then you clearly express some sexual desires you have, so I may be misunderstanding you)? And have you two talked about the fact that it sounds like what he wants and likes is pretty much exclusive to what you want and like and vice-versa? I mean, it sounds like you two want and enjoy such different things sexually, I'm having a hard time seeing you as a good sexual fit, period. Especially if he's not willing to try things besides insta-intercourse, and he ONLY wants intercourse but it isn't something you have any desire to do.

I should add that doing something you don't have a desire to do may well, all by itself, be part (or even all!) of why you are not producing lubrication with this and also are experiencing pain.

[ 07-28-2014, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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Also, can I ask if, given what you have said here about him only wanting to have intercourse, and you having no desire to engage in that activity, if when you two are sexual together, it's something you come to at all excited about and turned on by?

Or that you feel excited about or turned on by at any time during any sexual activity you two engage in together?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Anne9191
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Hi Heather and thank you SO MUCH for taking your time to reply to my questions.

I wasn't aware that other women would be like me. He has been with over 16 other sexual partners before me and I imagine he knows the female sexual reaction a lot better than I do. I believe, when he initiates penetration out of the blue, that it would work just perfectly for the others he has been with.

The situation is; I don't think I'm assexual. I do really enjoy masturbation and orgasm completely solo with vibrators, I have sexually arousing dreams, I feel sexually attracted to people. But when I am with my partner (to whom I am equally attracted), I just don't feel like having sex, or at least not when he does.

He enjoys very frequent intercourse and, as I said, out of the blue. We will be sitting together watching TV and talking about something completely unrelated, when he will suddenly grab me, begin to touch me and himself and, in less than a minute, attempt to initiate penetration. I reckon this is the time it takes him to get an erection. He might also, out of the blue, ask me to perform oral sex on him until he achieves an erection so as to engange in penetration.

In short: it is always too fast and out of the blue, he does not perform oral stimulation on me (he says he dislikes it), does not finger me, touch my clitoris or any other erotic activity to arouse *me*. As soon as *he* is ready, I guess he assumed a woman's body is ready by default, being the receptive end.

To answer your questions; sex without the use of lube is impossible. My vagina is just too dry and tight. He has to lubricate his penis beforehand. However, no amount of lubrication will help with the pain associated with the penetration of what seems to be a very VERY tight right of muscles around the entrance of my vagina. It will always be very painful in the beginning, regardless of the lube. It only gets better as penetration continues, that is, about 5 minutes into the act.

And no, I do not feel any pleasure during the act. Unlike with the vibrator at home, the act of penetration does not elicit any sexual response from me, I only feel the mechanics of it and it can be quite annoying or even boring.

I never discussed this with him as I want to please him as much as I can. I am afraid that if I ask him to previously prepare me with foreplay, he will find me boring. Plus, he seems to be very impulsive. He feels a wave of desire and he acts on it, fast. I ask him to slow down because I'm in pain and he has a hard time attending to my request as he seems to be so much after his own pleasure.

The rest is psychological. I'm in a relationship with this man, it's been almost a year now. He is a highly attractive and outgoing individual who has been in sexual and/or romantic relationships with 16 women before me. He seems to be able to get women to desire and lastly, love him, very easily. In the beginning, I had to "compete" with an ex of his who kept coming back and he later confessed he hard time "chosing" between the two. After 16 women, I believe sex is nothing new to him (even if he's only 23, like me). I know that it is a VERY important part of the relationship for him. I feel as if, would I impose too many rules of my own (I want foreplay, fingering, no sex tonight because I'm tired...), he will just leave me or cheat on me with a different sexual partner.

I know these are just my fears and that I'm not righta and that he might not be always right, either, reason for which I'd like to hear what you can tell me, knowing this.

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Karybu
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You are not at all an anomaly with this: MOST people with vaginas need some time and stimulation that is not vaginal entry in order to have entry be enjoyable. That tight ring of muscle you're describing is very probably that tense because you haven't had time to get aroused. Arousal doesn't just cause the vagina to produce extra lubrication, it also relaxes the muscles around the vaginal canal and actually lengthens it to make entry more comfortable.

I'm sure Heather or some of the other volunteers will have more to say, but I also wanted to point out that even if you were the only person in the world who needed a bit of time to warm up and get turned on before intercourse? That would still be totally okay and something he should understand and be happy to work within, because he's not with anyone else right now. He's with you. Part of being a caring and respectful sexual partner is communicating with the other person and taking their comfort and enjoyment into consideration, which he is clearly not doing. Sex is about everyone's needs and wants, not just one person's, and if he isn't willing to work with that, then I have to agree with Heather: he may just not be a good partner for you. (Also, just because he's had 16 partners doesn't mean he necessarily knows more than you do. It might be that all of his previous partners were experiencing the same things you are, and just didn't tell him.)

Lastly, it's pretty concerning to read that he initiates sex by just grabbing you without, it sounds like, checking in with you at all first. Am I understanding that properly?

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"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

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Heather
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Before anything else, can I ask you why you want to be in a sexual relationship with this person?

You say you have been for a year, and it does not sound like, at any time, that has been something satisfying for you. It does not sound like, at any time, this person has been a sexual partner you have enjoyed, one who has been at all responsive to you or even, from the sounds of things, interested in your experience (in fact, it sounds a lot more like masturbation, what he has been doing, than sexual partnership). It also does not sound like this is a sexual partner you feel at all comfortable being honest or open with. That is not very surprising, mind, since you make clear that when you do ask for him to even just acknowledge he is physically hurting you, he does not appear to care very much. [Frown]

In a word, this sounds like a terrible sexual relationship. So, can you fill me in on why you have stayed in it and want to stay in it as a sexual relationship?

Do you even want to be in a sexual relationship with this person at all?

Or are you saying that, effectively, sex with them is something you feel you have to do to basically pay for, for lack of a better word, another kind of relationship with them you want?

[ 07-29-2014, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Anne9191
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«Or are you saying that, effectively, sex with them is something you feel you have to do to basically pay for, for lack of a better word, another kind of relationship with them you want?»

Exactly. You touched the point. I love him, want to be with him, want to spend time with him and be romantically involved with him. I could live without the sex, though. Or maybe I would like, just in a different way.

As I told you, he held from the beginning that sex is one very important component in a relationship and that he cannot be in a relationship without sex. He describes what he feels as "physical pulsions" that he needs to act upon. Sometimes I wonder if this pulsions are related to the woman he is with or if they are simply an animal instinct that he seeks relief from, regardless of whoever he is with. I tend to believe so. One who has engaged in sexual activity with 16 women could not have been in love or extremely aroused by all 16 of them. He has also confessed that, at the time, "if they said yes, I'd do it, I didn't care much how they looked like or who they were". Regardless, he says things with me and the nature of our relationship are completely different. It seems though, as if his previous sexual habits have remained and I would like to make him see that.

As for what Karybu asked, no he doesn't "check in with me" beforehand. He will turn me over, get aroused and initiate penetration. I might be to blame, though, as I sometimes pretend this doesn't bother me or that I might even enjoy the "spontaneous" nature of it.

There have been occasions that concern me, though. Occasions when I'm tired, feeling a bit off, not in the mood etc. and yet he tries to penetrate me despite me saying "No, please, I'm tired, I don't feel like it." He will keep insisting until I force him away, sit up, look him in the eyes and put on my serious face to say "No". He will stop then, though he might still nag me to try and get to engange me into performing oral sex on him.

Other things that bother me is the way he wants me so bad to perform things I'm not into because they're simply physically painful. This includes deep-throating and anal sex. The first makes me asphyxiate and feel like I might throw up, the second is painful and causes distress to my bowels. He have tried both and despite my obvious discomfort and open statement that I don't like it, he will still push my head everytime I'm performing oral sex on him (even if I slap his hands away, he'll put them back) and he will insist we try anal penetration when I'm on my period.

This is the same way he doesn't stop moving when I yell that it hurts so bad when he's trying to penetrate my vagina at first. I get the feeling he is not as much of a terrible sexual partner as it might sound like put this way. I think he just isn't aware of the extent of the discomfort he can cause me with those acts, even if it's very pleasurable for him. I might also be to blame, as I said, for not always being open and telling I don't want something or want it otherwise. He might get the wrong impression and believe I'm into begging or masochism. (I know some people like to beg someone not to do something, when they actually want it, begging being a part of the game)

How can I tell him all this without being rude, too dramatic or make him want to find a partner to abides to his every wish?

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Karybu
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You are not to blame for his behaviour. Never, ever. He is the only one responsible for his actions, regardless of how you react. He's not doing consent well (it sounds like sometimes he's just not doing it at all) and that is on him, not on you. Honestly, it's sounding more and more to me like this guy is not only not a great partner for you, but may not be a safe partner. (I find it hard to believe that anyone causing their partner enough pain to make that partner yell is unaware that they're causing pain, for instance.)

If you do want to try and talk to him about this, though, I don't think you need to worry about being rude or too dramatic. Laying out your concerns and how you feel clearly is not being rude or dramatic. I know you've said you find it difficult to talk to him, but would it help if you could sort of brainstorm here some ways to get that conversation started? If you've ever had discussions about other aspects of your relationship (like how much time each of you wants to spend together, that kind of thing) it might be useful to think about how you approached that.

[ 07-29-2014, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Karybu ]

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"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

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Heather
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Anne: I have an awful lot to say about this, but I do not want to overwhelm you, so for now, unless you come in and say you want some more feedback, I am going to hold back beyond asking a few extra questions, mostly to get a sense of what kind of in-person help, support and input you have had with this.

Have you filled anyone else in in your life on all of this. If you have, what have they said to you? Has anyone you have filled in suggested to you that this does not sound at all like a healthy relationship or something safe for you?

I am also wondering if you have ever accessed any counseling, in general, or about this relationship specifically?

I asked earlier about your desire to be in this relationship as a sexual relationship. Can you fill me in on why you want to be in this as any kind of relationship? Is his other behaviour radically different than his sexual behaviour?

Lastly, you talk a lot about his exes. Have you met any of them? Is he friends with any of them?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Kachina
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Anne, I just want to say that you are not to blame for any of this. His behavior is not appropriate, and not your fault. You also don't deserve any of it! Whatever he offers you in "exchange" - maybe we can help you find an alternative way of achieving that?

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~Kat
Scarleteen Volunteer

Humans are allergic to change. They love to say, "We've always done it this way." I try to fight that. That's why I have a clock on my wall that runs counter-clockwise. - Grace Hopper

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Anne9191
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Thanks everyone for the great feedback. It's great to read some other points of view on such a senstitive topic.

In response to Heather's questions; I DO want your feedback, even if it is harsh. I haven't talked to anybody about this relationship yet because I had just moved to France when I met him and didn't make many other friends as I was always working/studying. People who crossed my path and with whom I socialized were not close enough for me to talk to them about this. My family's very strict about sex and I have no siblings, so no, nobody else knows. I've been quite alone in this from the beginning, it's just me and him.

His behaviour outside of sex is very different yes. He can be a bit distracted sometimes and not much of a gentleman (not holding the door for me, not offering to pay the restaurant or accept that I bring food for both and not offering to pay his part, etc.) but he's sweet, he's kind, he says beautiful things, states that he loves me and behaves like a very concerned and attentive partner when I'm unwell and cry, for example. Once I make him see he's doing something wrong (something he was not aware of), he ends up excusing himself and thanking me for having been sincere. His behaviour makes me thing of him as a sweet, sensitive man, maybe a bit childish for his age (he's the youngest of four brothers), maybe a little distracted about certain aspects of romantic relationships... but this is mostly due to the fact that the 16 other he's been with were mostly NOT romantic liasons. He'd meet them in clubs and bars, many were foreigners, most were one-night-stands, some were affairs of a few weeks. He confessed I was the first actual girlfriend he's been with in years. Meaning his previous "serious" relationship might have been a long time ago, when he was much younger and stuff a lot different.

Our relationship is beautiful to me, we laugh a lot together, we share a bunch of interests, we like to wander around town, try new food, chill out with some beer, travelling together, cats (adopting a cat is one of our projects for the future), watching stand-up comedy and laughing to tears, doing silly stuff etc. He also lives alone and he's also a foreigner in France. His friends are busy working (and so is he, and so am I), so we are to each other some sort of little family, we're each other's support as young adults going through financial/emotional/work/college problems together. We share our ups and downs.

One of his exes was once a major problem. This girl was a couchsurfer he met when she stayed over at her place about two years ago. She lived in a country very, very far away but kept coming back to Paris to see him and the sights. Eventually, the two engaged in a sexual/semi-romantic relationship that was kept alive through the internet and when she visited, every six months or so. He had other sexual partners throughout this. I met him when he was still in this "open" relationship with her, though I didn't know. We had been together (though not very officially) for three months when I went home for Christmas break and found out as I came back that this girl had stayed over at his place. Long story short, after long weeks of wondering if should confront him with the evidence or not, I did and he confessed everything. The nature of their "open" relationship, the way he was so confused and sorry for not having been honest... and worse. During thsi episode, the girl had accidentally gotten pregnant. She was in the process of aborting, by the time we were having this conversation. He allegedly had told her it was NOT the time to have a baby (even if she claimed she was madly in love with him) and that he has just begun a relationship with someone else, which meant their "open" affair had to come to an end. He cried his eyes out as he told me all this and confessed that his head was a mess at the moment and that he wasn't sure if he could handle engaging in an "official" relationship with me straight away.

Days later, the girls abortion finished, he declared he had "chosen" me over her, me over his past erractic sex life. That girl was to go on with her life and, shall he forgive himself for his mistakes, the two of us were to try to start again, for I was the one he truly loved.

Now, this is the very short story. Of course I spent endless hours stalking the girl's online activity to check if he was speaking the truth and if the affair was not still going on behind my back. Everything indicated he had spoken truth. I went through major self-esteem issues, too. Who was prettier, me or her? Who was the most interesting? Who had the best body? Who would have been the best sex partner? How could I show him he'd made a good "choice" for picking me over her? But most of all: was she to live in the same city as us (distance not being a separation factor), would he still choose me? Or was she his true love made impossible by distance, me being the "second" or "convenient" choice?

So, here's the panoramic picture. In other news, today I told I would like him to be more gentle and that I didn't like when he did certain things (pushing my head and choking me, for instance) and he sounded surprised and kind of at a loss for words.

"But... I am aroused when I do that, I do that because I am aroused..." : My goal here his making him see that thank you very much, it flatters me that I arouse you to the point of making you do things you don't even notice are painful, but please, don't do them. Being aroused is no excuse.

As usual, whatever you guys might have to say is very much welcome!

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Heather
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Okay.

So, here's the long story made super-short: I think it is very clear (and clear to any of the volunteers who have read through this as well) that you are in a sexually abusive relationship. And my very, very best advice to you would be to leave it, get away from it and stay away from it. And moving forward, understand that any partner who makes clear to you in their sexual behaviour that they matter, but you don't, as this person has in many ways? That you recognize that person is showing you they are or will likely be sexually abusive and unsafe for you.

Here's the much longer version, particularly since I suspect that leaving is not something you will want to do or feel ready to do.

You say he describes as lot of this behaviour as "pulsions." Is that his shorthand for COMpulsions? In other words, is he telling you he feels his sexual behaviour is compulsive: something he would like to control but feels he has no control over?

If that truly is the case, that is a mental health and behavioural problem, something someone needs health and treatment for from a mental healthcare provider, and usually can, in fact, be treated for so that they DO learn to have control over actions they can control, which certainly includes most of the sexual behaviour you have described here.

The thing about that, though, and which makes that as an issue seem unlikely to me, is that people struggling with compulsive behaviour, especially compulsive behaviour that hurts -- physically or emotionally, and in your case, it's both -- people they care about? They don't do a "But..." when you point out they are hurting you. And they are usually WRECKED that they are hurting you, not indifferent. If they are, indeed, also "sweet and sensitive," they are usually REALLY wrecked, and are going to be doing everything in their power to do what they can to learn to behave differently.

But I don't see any indication of any of that here, so I suspect that his suggesting things like that this is compulsive, or just about what his body does when he is aroused is an excuse, and something he knows is not true. And the idea it's a compliment to you that he is appraently SO aroused by you he can't help but hurt or disregard you? That, too, sounds to me like anything but. After all, if all of this was about his feelings about you, he'd actually be seeing you in all of this, and doing things to assure your sexual relationship is not only good for you, and not painful, but really about you, not just about him. He's not doing that.

Unfortunately, too, all the textbook stuff is here: you are very socially isolated, making you easy to abuse. You feel very insecure, especially around his sexual history and other women.

(Mind, it sounds like what most likely happened with most of those women? Is they bolted and did not continue a relationship because they at least realized this person had no interest in being a sexual partner -- in the sense sex is about not just him, but the other person -- or stopped seeing him after it was clear he was going to stick to making things all about him, and maybe even saw this for the unhealthy and abusive behaviour it is. Also, just a little inside tip from someone quite familiar with the one-night-stand or short-affair. Those kinds of interactions, when they're any good for everyone involved, often turn into some kind of friendly, ongoing relationship, even if that's just a casual friendship with the occasional facebook hello or inside joke shared. The fact that he doesn't seem to have ongoing relationships with any of them speaks volumes to me, and not in a good way.)

You two seem to do some things that can rack up some bills, so I suspect both of you could probably find a way to afford counseling. If you do not want to leave or feel ready to, that's, then, what my next-best suggestion would be: for each of you, separately, to see a counselor and be very honest with that person about what has been going on. In time, if it seems like any headway is really being made, you both want to stay in this, and both your counselors think it is healthy to (though I suspect if you are both honest, neither will suggest it is), then perhaps you can talk about counseling together.

And if that, too is something you do not want to do or see him being willing to do, then my third-best-suggestion would be to start drawing some SERIOUS lines. Lines that are basic lines that are part of any sexual relationship. They're not about asking for special treatment, or anything huge, they are asking for the basic things all sexual partners should be giving to each other, like:

• You two HAVE to ask each other before doing sexual things to one another. Without fail. Every time. No throwing you over in the middle of something else and starting to do what he wants to you. You're a person, not a toy or throw pillow.

• You HAVE to talk about what you both like doing and ONLY do things you both agree you enjoy and want to do together. That's what healthy sexual partners do: we find the places where we do connect and do share likes and interests and that's what we do together. We don't do the things one or both people don't enjoy, don't want, and can't do without pain or injury.

• If he doesn't ask, or he refuses to understand his desires cannot take all here, in any situation, then everything stops. In other words, he jumps on you without asking, he pushes your head when you say no, then it is all over for that night or day. It's done. You go sit down and talk, take a walk, do something else, but since he made clear in behaving like that he's not safe that day for a sexual partner, then it's not safe for anyone that day to be his.

• ONE no is always enough. In other words, you have described patterns of coercion here, where you say no, not yet or later, and he talks you out of them. That is coercion, an abusive behaviour. When you say no to something, all he gets to say is "Okay. Is there something else you'd like to do?"

I am sad to say, I suspect those basic guidelines there for a healthy sexual relationship are not things he is likely to like or comply with. But if you aren't ready or willing to take steps with the first two things I have suggested, that's really all you've got, beyond the option of simply choosing to live in something abusive that has hurt you and will continue to.

And above all else, I would strongly encourage you to make some friends. People in abuse usually start isolated or get isolated by their partners, and for "good" reason: after all, if you had other people in your life you talked to about your relationship who cared about you, they'd probably say all the things we are saying here, and he'd not be able to keep doing this anymore. And the sad fact is that however much it doesn't equal real happiness for anyone, including people doing the abusing themselves, people who are abusive want to do it. It gives them a feeling of power and control they are desperate for, and feel like they cannot live without (they can, obviously, but they don';t feel that way because they are seriously busted people).

But your isolation also keeps you from seeing your other options, be that the option of someone you enjoy spending time with who does not -- I hope it's okay for me to go ahead and be blunt about this -- sexually disregard you at best and rape you as a practice at worst, which you have described here -- or the option of having other people in your life who could help you get out of this, give you some of the social and intimate connection that seems to keep you stuck to this guy, and also help empower you to feel more secure in yourself so that you see the kind of behaviour you have described here as absolutely unacceptable so that people like this? They don't find you and see a mark: they meet you and realize they should walk away, because you are not the kind of person who will tolerate being so mistreated. And for you, some more people who are part of your life also would likely mean feeling less insecure.

So would just getting away from this, though: after all, this is another thing that happens in abusive dynamics. Insecurities are played up[on and used as opportunities, so instead of feeling MORE secure in a relationship, you feel less so, because, by design, you need to. Again, if you felt secure and confident in yourself, the idea of staying in something like this -- however sad the idea of leaving might be -- would be abhorrent to you.

I know that is a lot to lay out, and I am sure hearing some of it really sucks. So, know that I want to be sure to hold up my end of responsibility here with saying all of it. I'll be sure to check back in here a couple times a day if you want to talk more about any of it, or need some emotional support around it.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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Also, I'm guessing you did not tell the GYN you see anything about what's been going on here. If you had, just so you know, chances are she would have said the same kinds of things I have said here about your pain.

In a word, you are in pain with this because your partner is choosing to sexually behave with you in ways that are going to be painful for pretty much anyone. The answer to not being in pain, they likely would have said, is to choose a partner who doesn't choose to cause you pain.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Anne9191
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Dear Heather,

I have read your message thrice. All I can say is Thank You so much for your long response, for taking your time to throughly analyse my situation and for being fully honest. I get the feeling that I need to open my eyes about some things and I wouldn't be able to do so if the other end was not fully honest. Of course some of your recommendations don't appeal to me (leaving the relationship straight away, for example), as you predicted. I know, however, that what you said is pretty much what anyone with enough good sense would say, were they a real-life friend.

Last night, even before I read your post, I decided to be a grown-up girl and talk to him. As you might imagine, it wasn't easy. As usual when I spend the night at his place, at some point he tried to initiate sex. I tried to do things differetly, for once, to see his reaction.

One, I told him I'd been in a lot of pain recently, due to forced penetration. I suggested we took out time, this time. He didn't object (other than a look in his eyes that read "ah, boring..."). I asked him if he would like to try and finger me to relax my muscles a bit. He refused, saying things like performing oral sex on women, fingering and other acts that require touching a vagina are not very much his thing. I said he could try and stimulate me on the outside, to which he said he didn't know how it's done. I offered to help him (I know some guys are not familiar with the exact location of the female clitoris...) I guided his hand for about 30 seconds before he said he didn't enjoy doing that neither. He could do it for a very little while but not for long, as it was "weird" for him. I went to find a small dildo that I have and suggested he try and move it inside me a bit. That way, he didn't have to "touch" me much. He said dildos scared him and made him think that his body was not enough. Obviously, I explained that it wasn't that way to him, to no avail.

(Disclaimer: I am a perfectly clean person, I wear nice lingerie and I'm in very good physical shape, meaning he doesn't have the excuse of finding my intimate parts stinky, unappealling or disgusting.)

I told him about how the female body produces lubrication and how the muscles only relax from a little stimulation before the act. I asked him how it had worked with his previous partners and he said they had been much simpler: they produced a lot more lubrication and a lot sooner than I did). Ouch! Not easy to hear. I told him about the kind of contraception I used and that it might be playing a role in making me lubricate less or later. However, I also told him that I believed it was mostly due to our lack of foreplay. He seemed very surprised by things, as if the thought had never crossed his mind. We did some kissing and I touched him and everything, a bit like "normal" coupled do, for a couple of minutes before they engage in actual penetration. However, he kept trying to convince me to perform oral sex on him. I told him I didn't want to do it, not tonight, as I trying out a new way of doing things. He sulked and claimed receiving oral sex was very important for him and refused to continue if I was not going to indulge him before.

So we both stopped, he sulked, crossed his arms and started reading the sports page on his cellphone. I asked him if I had hurt him and he sort of said so, that I'd basically told him sex had never been good between us, that I'd lied all along and that I was now acting as if he'd raped me each and every time before. I understand he might have felt his masculinity offended when I hinted that something wasn't exactly perfect with our sex life. I know some men are like that. He also claimed (and he is not wrong here) that it was the first time I said something bad about our sex life and that before I'd always given him very positive feedback. He then said he also had some things to say about *my* performance; mostly he regretted that I'd never take the initiative to start sex and that it had to be always him.

Next thing I know, I started crying (don't ask me why, but I'm a very sensitive person and sometimes I just start shedding tears in situations where tension starts to build up). Through tears I explained that I liked him a lot, was happy with our relationship but that, lately, I'd been experiencing pain, and experts I'd consulted (you awesome guys!) belived it was due to penetration always happened too fast, when I was not aroused enough. Plus, I felt that he sometimes used me a but like a sex doll, a mass with some holes that he could penetrate and that was there to please him and that I felt that *my* pleasure was often disregarded. I don't know, but I get the feeling that guys like him sometimes don't even *think* of that.

While he excused himself about ten times, he kept that "touching vaginas" with his hands really wasn't his thing. He also mentioned (as I'd predicted he would) that he REALLY believed I was into begging and putting on a but of a show; that is, telling him to stop and that it hurt just for the sake of the game. I made it clear that it wasn't the case. He excused himself again and I believe my distress was obvious to him.

He then suggested that we did an experiement: doing things a lot more gently on his side. While he still barely touched me, we did lots of kissing, he didn't force me at all, didn't move until I told him to, stopped when I told him to, asked me if I was sure that I wanted this and that, asked permition to change positions, asked if it hurt that way or not, etc.

Conclusion; psychologically it was MUCH better than it'd ever been before. I felt respected and cared for, for once. I felt like a person and not like a sex doll. I really hope this wasn't just for the occasion and that he'd continue this way.

Physically, though, it still hurt bad. I get the feeling that I have some sort of wound on my inner walls, probably caused by forced penetration on no natural lubrication. The obgyn didn't see anything wrong about three months ago, though it might have developped since. I know that vaginismus is also a possibility. Anyway, I guess I have to see the doctor again to really know what's physical and what's psychological.

Finally; as for your suggestions, Heather, I'm absolutely in for it. I'm looking into ways to make friends here (I've isolated myself a lot since we started dating, indeed, as all of my time was now for him). I'll certainly see a therapist if things don't get better (I've seen therapists before, I have no problem assuming that I need help and asking for it). Him though, as you guess, I don't see a way he would assume *he* needs help on how to control his "irresistible drive" and change the way he sees sexual partners...

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Heather
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Anne, I think what you tried to do there, and all you said, took a lot of courage. And the more I read you, period, you sound like an earnestly magnificent person.

Who, I think, deserves the same in a partner, or at least someone close. Which, it is very clear, you do not have with this person.

I am just waking up on my end, and will be mostly offline today, but I will check in a few times if there is anything around any of this you want to talk about. If there is any information about any of this you would like, or you just want to unload some more, please just let me know. [Smile]

I do want to tell you something I think is probably for real about something he said last night, something that clearly hurt you. You have made clear most of his partners were very casual, so probably he had not had sex with them before, nor they him. Or if they had, they may have assumed what we had done one time was a one-off, and things would go different the next time.

So, chances are, they were feeling a lot more excited about sex with him before it started, because they would not have known what to expect.

You, on the other hand, know very well how sex with him goes, and so are not likely coming to it feeling excited from the start, because how could you be? You have a long pattern of being at best, disregarded, and at worst, assaulted, by this person. Your mind, and so your body, know well not to be excited, but instead that pain and dissatisfaction are coming, and so they respond in kind.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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