posted
Recently I started remembering some experiences I had when I was young of being sexually abused and I told my family, who has been supportive and understanding. However - the problem is that ever since I remembered this, I've been feeling unlike my self. I used to be very open about sex and masturbation and I thought of these things as normal and healthy. But now, I just feel ashamed and guilty whenever I think about these topics. I feel frustrated because I feel so embarrassed and nervous about these topics now. Why do I feel this way and what can I do?
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Robin Lee
Volunteer Assistant Director
Member # 90293
posted
Hello aechristine16 and welcome to Scarleteen,
It's not unusual for feelings about sex and one's own sexuality to change after experiencing, or remembering, sexual abuse.
I'm glad to hear your famly has been supportive of you. Are you currently receiving any counselling to help you process these memories of abuse?
-------------------- Robin Posts: 4407 | From: Washington DC suburbs | Registered: Dec 2011
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Thank you for responding. I am seeing a therapist and she is very nice but I feel kind of embarrassed to bring this up in person.
I also feel a sense of anger because the same person did something similar to my older sister when she was younger but my sister had seen a presentation in school about how young children should tell someone if another person makes them feel uncomfortable (basically, it was a presentation for little kids about sexual abuse.) Because my sister learnt this, she told the person that if they ever did that to her again, she would tell someone. I was NEVER taught about sexual a use in school and therefore, I never knew that I had the right to tell someone about what was happening. I feel so angry because I know that if I had been taught about abuse in school as well, I could have made sure it didn't happen to me. If we had sex Ed in all schools, I wouldn't be here now, feeling this way.
Now I feel so many conflicting emotions about sex. I feel bad when I think about it as normal because I remember how horrible this person was and how they used sex to hurt others.
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Robin Lee
Volunteer Assistant Director
Member # 90293
posted
HI There,
You're right. It's totally not fair that you didn't have the same kind of education that your sister had. It's never a guarantee that an abuser will stop what they're doing, but if children were more empowered in general, they'd have a lot more power against abusers.
This is not your fault though. You are not to blame for not having been given the education you deserved that would have helped keep you safe. No matter what a child is or isn't taught, the responsibility for the abuse always lies squarely with the abuser.
It's okay that you're angry. Again, it's not fair and shouldn't have happened.
I'm glad to hear that you're working with a therapist. Healing is a process, including the process of working through your feelings about sex and about your own body. I would encourage you to talk with your therapist about this as they're in the best position to be able to help you. What do you think about writing down the kinds of feelings you're expressing here and giving the paper to her, letting her know that you have things you want to tell her but you're just not comfortable doing it out loud? Do you think that could work for you?
In terms of these negative feelings about sex and about your body, they're understandable. These feelings aren't going to go away all at once. As painful as they are, I would encourage you to give yourself permission to have them. What do you think?
i'm also wondering if it would be helpful to think of some things that are positive or that you do like about your body and what it can do. This could be as simple as saying that you like your hair or that you're good at playing sports/playing a musical instrument/etc. What do you think of making a list of these positive things? You could share it here, or not, whatever you feel safe and comfortable doing.
-------------------- Robin Posts: 4407 | From: Washington DC suburbs | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
At school, I always talk to my classmates about how I think that if we had a sex ed class, more of us would be able to identofy abuse and we would be able to report or talk about abuse in our community. But it can be tough because not everyone respects my opinion and they often call me out saying that only people who are obsessed with sex would want a sex ed class. It can be painful to have people tell me I have a bizarre gross mind when I'm also trying to get over an experience with abuse.
I can definitely try to write down what I've been thinking and take it to my therapist. And I don't feel uncomfortable with my body - I think I still have a great self- esteem and I am proud of who I am but when it comes to my sexuality, I just don't want to feel so ashamed anymore because of what happened. Can I get myself to start thinking of sexuality as normal and ok again? Thank you for talking with me.
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posted
I can pretty easily sum up, the feelings I have now in regards to sexuality. This is just one example but I hope you can help me understand this feeling: for example, the purpose for masturbation is because we want it and it is good for just us but when that person abused me, they did it because they wanted to and they did it for the exact same reasons so I feel guilty, ashamed and afraid that I will be just like them by considering sex and masturbation.
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Robin Lee
Volunteer Assistant Director
Member # 90293
posted
Ugh. I'm sorry your classmates have responded to your opinions and ideas in such a negative way. Wanting to learn the facts about something doesn't mean someone is obsessed with that thing, whether we're talking about sex, cooking, or scuba-diving.
If it helps to read this, a lot of folks here at Scarleteen believe that not only should we have sex ed classes in school, but that they should be teaching a lot more than what they teach already. If you want, take a look:
I hear you on not wanting to feel ashamed anymore. It sounds like you felt really positive about your sexuality until these memories surfaced.
I want to make sure I understand you correctly. I think you're saying that because part of the abuse was your abuser masturbating themselves, you're worrried that your own motivations for masturbating aren't healthy. If i'm not understanding you correctly, please don't be afraid to say so.
Are these concerns about interacting sexually with a partner, now or in the future, or are they more about interacting with you sexually?
What your abuser intended was to hurt you. Maybe they wouldn't have said it that way, but sexual abuse is a lot more about someone hurting someone else and exerting power over them than it is about sex. Sometimes the actions are the same, but the intentions are very very different. You are not your abuser, and you have the right to enjoy your own sexuality.
...and you're welcoem for talking. We're happy to talk with people here, though I do hope that you'll find a way to tell your therapist what you've been thinking too. It can be good to have multiple branches of help with something.
-------------------- Robin Posts: 4407 | From: Washington DC suburbs | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
I think you understood my correctly. Basically, it is just that I don't want to feel like I'm doing the same things they're doing because I don't want to be anything like them. Like you said, I used to think of seuxality in a positive light but lately, I haven't felt that way.
These concerns are really about problems I could encounter in the future since right now, it's not something I have begun to take part in yet.
When someone sexually abuses someone else, do they know that what they're doing is wrong? Are they doing it to be hurtful or because the actually think its ok?
Also - could I even try printing out the messages I have sent here to take to a therapist? I don''t know if that is allowed (I would just print my own messages not your responses.)
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posted
"I think you're saying that because part of the abuse was your abuser masturbating themselves, you're worrried that your own motivations for masturbating aren't healthy." Yes! You did undertsnad my correctly - that is one of the feelings of concern I have about this.
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posted
Hi aechristine16, I'm glad to see you came to our boards You most certainly are allowed to print these posts off and share them with your therapist! I hope it helps you start this conversation with them
There have been some studies on the matter of whether abusers are aware that what they're doing is wrong or not. And the conclusions have been that they most definitely ARE aware. They're also almost always aware when someone doesn't want to take part in something even if they don't say "no" outright -- most people really are good at reading body language and taking indirect "no"s, so when abusers/abuse-excusers say that a no wasn't "clear enough", it's blatantly false. (one example: http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/mythcommunication-its-not-that-they-dont-understand-they-just-dont-like-the-answer/ )
So your abuser, like most, almost definitely knew they were hurting you, and they were doing it TO hurt you. You being sexual, enjoying yourself, your body, your sexuality, and perhaps later on, enjoying another person's body and sexuality mutually, is nothing like what your abuser did to you. Does that make sense to you? Hopefully if you really sit with that idea for a while, and talk about that with your therapist, you'll be able to start to really feel the truth in that for yourself.
Robin Lee
Volunteer Assistant Director
Member # 90293
posted
It's absolutely okay for you to print out this whole exchange to show to your therapist, my messages as well as yours. Whatever way feels safest for you to be able to share this with her. If your therapist would like to get in touch with us to talk about the best ways we can be helpful to you in supporting your healing process, that is also an option.
While there's no way to know what goes on in the mind of every single abusive person, in general, people who abuse do know it's wrong. They often go to great lengths to conceal what they are doing and to convince the people they abuse not to tell anyone. They do it for a lot of reasons, which usually boil down to wanting to have control or power over someone. They know that they want something specifically, and have no qualms about using another person, against their will, to get what they want.
That's not you.
You are not your abuser. If you masturbate or interact with yourself sexually in any way, you are not doing the same thing that they did. If in future you interact with someone else sexually, after getting their full consent, you are not doing what your abuser did.
I found this blog entry that our Executive Director wrote a few years ago. I'm wondering if it might help you feel less alone.
posted
That makes sense and it helps, I was just so worried that I would be like them by doing anything remotely related to sex and that was kind of frightening.
I think taking these messages to my therapist will really help since I was most nervous about saying it all out loud and then maybe I'd mess up the wording and she wouldn't understand what I was feeling. I won't see her for a few days but when I do, maybe I could tell you guys how it went?
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posted
I'm glad our comments were able to help you. And I'm glad you feel printing out the posts and showing them to your therapist will be able to help you with this. You can definitely keep us updated on how it goes when you see her! Good luck Posts: 1123 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2008
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Robin Lee
Volunteer Assistant Director
Member # 90293
posted
You can absolutely check in with us about how it went.
I also wanted to check in with you about whether your therapist had suggested any books or other reading material to you about abuse survivors, and whether you thought you'd find reading books like that helpful.
-------------------- Robin Posts: 4407 | From: Washington DC suburbs | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
Good to hear that writing in a journal has helped you in your process of healing! Are there any other methods that she mentioned that you might not have tried yet?
Posts: 1123 | From: Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I haven't really tried any other methods. Talking is sort of difficult especially with my parents. They aren't interested in feminism. When I told them that I wanted to write about my experiences or talk about them publically later on, my mom was very critical but she said she just wants to protect me. She also gets angry when I ask her not to hug or kiss me because it makes me uncomfortable - am I being harsh or is it OK for me to ask my family not to hug or kiss me?
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posted
It's always okay to ask anyone -- anyone at all -- not to touch us in a way that we are not comfortable being touched, and in any way we do not want to be touched.
Has your mother read anything at all herself written for parents with children who have been sexually assaulted/abused? If not, if I gave you a couple titles to give to her, do you think she might?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Maybe - I tried to reach out to her but she either thinks that I talk about this too much or too little.
I've also asked her not to tell our family members but she has told almost everyone, which makes me feel violated and betrayed...and I already feel that way.
In January, my parents have to go on a trip but I have classes so I was going to stay with family friends whose daughter is my best friend. Then I found them talking on the phone to my grandma to have her stay with me and when I asked about it they lied to my face and made up a ton of weird reasons like "the dog will miss you" when really, I know they just want to keep my "protected" as they say. I feel like they just want to make up for not having protected me before but they're hurting me even more!
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posted
I certainly understand how you're feeling about that, and you're probably right: parents overcompensating like this when they feel they didn't protect a child certainly happens often enough. And a lot of parents feel a lot of guilt in situations like this, so they can overcompensate to kind of protect *themselves* from the impact of those feelings sometimes, too.
It sounds to me, though, like what you really need and want from them now is support. And that while they think they might be giving you more protection (they probably aren't, in reality, even though they may intend to), what they aren't giving you is what you actually want and need, which is understanding, support and help in healing (which certainly includes respecting your privacy).
Does that sound about right?
If it does, want to try suggesting a couple books, maybe paired with voicing how you are feeling with how they are handling this? Or, perhaps connecting with a sexual assault/abuse agency or organization where you can all get help and information, including you getting some backup to advocate for you with your parents from a qualified expert who can perhaps better explain to them what you DO need from them?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
You're right, the privacy thing is something that really bothers me. My mom walks into my room when I'm changing and even when I'm taking a shower just because she thinks it doesn't bother me and don't get me wrong, my mom and I are really close but I just think I need to know that when I shut the door, it will be respected.
The only way to get my parents to leave me alone for a little is by cold shouldering them (not talking at dinner, closing my door after I get home and just staying in there doing homework without coming out again etc.) but then I just feel so overwhelmingly alone and I feel like crying because I don't to have to be mean anymore.
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posted
I'm so sorry you have felt like that's the only way to get what you need with this.
How can we help you with that? Do you feel like a talk with them might be fruitful if you were able to walk into it with some help from us to voice what you need?
Or, do you think this might be something your therapist is the right person to ask for help with?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I think any help would be nice and I feel comfortable with you guys already, whereas my therpist I've only met once and my parents got to stay for most of the first appointment and they talked the whole time.
I need this from them:
1. privacy. I need to be left alone and they can't keep asking me if something's wrong when I just don't want to talk.
2. I need them to stop talking to our family against my wished
3. to not make decisions that impact me (like my grandma staying with me) without at least telling me the truth
4. to understand that I AM a feminist,I AM pro-choice, that I DO believe that gender inequality is an important issue and that I WILL speak up against it and that it hurts when they brush it off
5. that telling me "it's going to be ok" doesn't actually help if they are just going to keep doing all the things that make me feel uncomfortable
6. that I don't have the obligation to tell them every single thing I say or do. They don't need to know who I talk to about this or what I tell people at school because that's my decision
7. and finally that it's not fair when they say "we have had less time to process this. you've had your whole life."
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posted
I think that the things you're asking for and need from them are all absolutely reasonable and sound. And quite a few of them really are about your healing. For instance, sexual abuse IS an invasion of our privacy and our physical space, so having others continue to invade it can be so, so triggering. Same goes with taking control away from victims: that's what abusers do. having control over who hears about your abuse is a big deal.
So, what do you think about coming to them with a list of sorts like these and making these needs clear; asking them to please do their best to respect them because THESE are the ways they can really help you?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I think that could be a good idea. And you're right with what you said about it being triggering. It't like a constant reminder of how little my personal physical space has been respected and how little it continues to be respected.
What are some books they should read? Also, can I tell my therapist to look at 'Scarleteen' so she we can talk about and different things I've read on here that have been helpful or have made me think of something I want to talk about?
And also...this might be a very stupid question but I really don't know. What makes something "rape" as opossed to just "sexual abuse"? I saw a picture of a scarleteen shirt that said "I was raped" and it got me thinking, how do we know the difference if we've never seen what each is...? I hope that's not a dumb question.
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Really, these terms are all very mushy, and some of that mushiness is about the difference between legal terms versus terms that are less formal.
At this point in time, sexual abuse would be the big umbrella term which rape and sexual assault -- which are two terms that effectively mean the same things -- fall under. Just like, for example, physical abuse is an umbrella term that slapping, hitting or biting someone would fall under. Make sense?
So, sexual abuse is a term used to describe when a person commits abuse -- or is abused -- in a way that is sexual, that involves sexual activities of some kind. Abuse is also a term that doesn't just mean any one incident or attack, but can be used to describe a series or pattern of ongoing abuse. Rape, specifically, is most often used to describe a sexual assault (attack) in which a person abuses/assaults someone by entering their body (or forcing another person to enter their own body) via a sexual activity, like intercourse or oral sex.
Does that clear that up for you?
With talking to your folks about what you need, do you want some help with how to present that to them? If so, I'd be happy to write up a little something that you might be able to start from -- and adapt as need be -- that might work well.
While I wait for you to answer those questions, I'll type out some suggested reading for them in another post on this thread for you.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
That makes sense. When I first told my mom and dad what had happened, they didn't understand I guess and they thought I mean that this person just said sexually inappropriate things to me. For almost a year, the person who did this kept coming back to visit and while they never did anything to me ever again, they were so annoying and they denied they ever hurt me. She said that I just didn't love her and that I was breaking her heart and she said I avoided her because I didn't love her. It really hurt my feelings.
But then recently, she started calling my mom a racist and all these terrible things and my dad and mom started fighting. I remembered that she once said that if my parents ever got divorced, she would get to raise me while they seperated and I just knew I had to do something to make sure she never ever came back.
So I went back to my parents and told them that I never wanted to see her again. At first, my dad yelled at me and said that she was his mother and how could I say things I didn't absolutely remember. Then the next day, I literally sat in front of them and said super blankly "she used to put her fingers inside me". I think that was the hardest things I've ever had to say because it was just so....so bizarre to say out loud. You don't realize how wrong it is until you hear yourself affirm it out loud.
My parents freaked out, they called a therpist and the whole works. I'm never allowed to go anywhere near her again and she's not even allowed to try to contact our house.
So I just never knew what it was - abuse, assault, rape. And I this is the first I've ever told this whole story so thank you for listening to me.
Yes - I would like it very much if you could help me figure out how to talk to them. Thank you so much.
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- Invisible Girls: The Truth About Sexual Abuse by Dr. Patti Feureisen - Healing the Harm Done: A Parent's Guide to Helping Your Child Overcome the Effects of Sexual Abuse by Jennifer Y. Levy-Peck - When Your Child Has Been Molested: A Parents' Guide to Healing and Recovery by Kathryn Brohl - How Long Does It Hurt: A Guide to Recovering from Incest and Sexual Abuse for Teenagers, Their Friends, and Their Families by Cynthia L. Mather
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I'm so sorry to hear about how your mother initially handled your abuse. It's very common for parents to engage in a LOT of denial around sexual abuse within the family, and it absolutely does tend to deeply hurt their children who have been abused, even though those parents often don't have any intention of doing any harm.
I'm also so sorry you had to experience gathering the courage to tell your parents what was happening, then having them still allow the person who abused you access to you. feeling very betrayed around that is certainly reasonable: it obviously is a huge betrayal even if, again, your parents just weren't getting it.
While I'm so sorry that's how it went, you've certainly got my respect and my awe in your courage in disclosing what you did, especially in giving those kinds of details, which can be so scary and so hard to do. You sound like a really courageous person to me. And I appreciate your trust in sharing all of this with me: I know that's not easy, either.
In terms of how to talk to them, how do you think they might do with an opening that goes something like this:
"Mom and Dad, I know that you have been dealing with what happened to me in your own way, and have your own feelings around it. I also am sure that the ways you have been dealing with it are ways where you think you're helping me. But there are some things I really want and need from you in order to be helped well, and in order to have the best support I can from you so that *I* can deal with this best and work towards healing from it. I'd like to tell you what I think those things are, and ask you to do your best top try and do them for and with me. Can you listen to me about what those things are, and do you think you can try to do that?"
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Thank you so much. I know my parents must not have understood me but it still hurt.
I think your intro for the conversation is really helpful, and I think they'll respond well. Maybe I could try talking to them seperately, so so intimidated to talk.
The reason this all came up, as you might have seen in my first messages was that I started feeling so negative about my sexuality and I felt kind of dirty and ashamed of what had happened. I just want to be able to think about sexuality without feeling like /I'm/ doing the same things as my grandma did.
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posted
Maybe pick the one parent you feel will be most receptive and supportive first?
Anyway, you can say something like that, then say the things on that list you made, asking for each of them. It might help to explain a little bit about why you need those things, like what we talked about around privacy, for instance.
I did go back and read your initial messages, and I understand feeling that way. It can be very hard sometimes, especially the younger we are when sexual abuse happened, to untangle our sexual abuse from our sexuality.
It might help to just try and find some simple ways of reminding yourself about the nature of what your grandmother did, versus the nature of what you are doing. Sexual abuse is primarily about power and control. Masturbation is primarily about seeking comfort and pleasure in our own bodies. Those are very different things, even if they're happening in the same places on our bodies.
Same goes for hurt vs. pleasure. Someone who abuses us has NO investment in our pleasure or our comfort: they're violating both, dismissing both as real and important. That's about doing us harm. On the other hand, you seeking out your own sexuality and sexual life, based on what feels good to you and right for you, is a very different thing that that: that's putting your pleasure and comfort FIRST and foremost. Make sense?
Lastly, I want to just make sure you know, if you don't already, that it is on your parents to do the very best they can with this. For sure, they're bungling this pretty badly so far in a lot of ways, and for sure, you and we can know, if you know this about them, they don't mean to hurt you. But that doesn't mean you don't have the right to ask them NOT to, or that they're not responsible for the mistakes they have made or are making in this. They still are, and you don't have to try and be some kind of saint around it. It's okay for you to feel angry and hurt if that's how you feel, and you've every right to those feelings.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I just talked to my parents and it DID help. There was some yelling because I had said that I wanted to talk about my own experience in school and they said that I could be met with a lot of mean and hurtful comments and that people at my school may not respond with the sensitivity I need right now. I think that's a fair argument, but I'd still like to be able to talk about these issues in general and I made that clear to them.
What you're saying makes sense, although it might take time to internalize. I guess what my thought process was was that if they thought about sex, I couldn't think about sex. Like I wanted to be nothing abosolutely nothing like them but I don't think that finding comfort (I think that's a good word choice because it showed me how I really am different from them because I do it for comfort, not to hurt someone like them) in doing /anything/, whether its sex or kite-flying, is bad.
This is a bit embarrassing to ask because it might be silly but, I think that as a kid I knew it was wrong but, I remember it didn't physically hurt me. Looking back I wonder, what if I thought it felt "good"? Does that make it more ok...? What if I even had an orgasm - I was little but that could still happen, would that mean that what they did, wasn't /as/ wrong? I feel so conflicted about it. I think it was wrong but what if I made it seem like it was ok?
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posted
Only just checking in on my way out, but I am SO glad to hear you were able to make some headway with your folks. Obviously, it's just a start, but so glad to hear there was some progress.
In terms of abuse and assault, it's a very tricky and complex thing, but VICTIMS most certainly don't usually tend to think about their abuse or assaults as sex. Whether or not perpetrators do isn't clear, either. Some do, some don't. But even for those who do, they don't really see sex as something that's about pleasure, so much as that's something about power, if you follow me. And that tends to be a very different way of seeing sex than people who see it as being about joy, comfort and pleasure, and when it's about more than one person, about *mutual* joy, pleasure, comfort and all the other good stuff.
What we know about kids and sexual abuse (and most kinds of trauma) is that most kids don't know sexual abuse is abuse because they don't know what abuse OR sex is. Many abused kids also don't feel traumatized at the time, that tends to more often come later, when they understand what was done to them and understand the world better in general. The why of that is complex, but we know that the notion of figuring out if something done to a child was or wasn't abusive based on how the child reacts is a deeply flawed idea.
Something abusive not hurting, or even feeling good physically, that doesn't make it any less an abuse or any more okay. That includes reaching orgasm. Physical feelings of pleasure and automatic sexual responses like that are not things anyone can control, and are things that can and do tend to happen with certain kinds of contact to certain body parts.
If you're an adult or anything close to one now, you probably already know that doing something sexual to a kid just because they'd let you or you could isn't right. Even if they said it felt good, or it might, you'd know it was an abuse of your power, agency and authority as someone older they trusted. And that's likely something you'd know even if you hadn't survived abuse yourself.
Adults who abuse? They know this.
Sexual abuse isn't something anyone does on accident, or something someone does who doesn't know better. They know it's not right, they know it's harmful, they know it's an abuse. That tends to be why, for example, they work so hard to make sure the people they abuse don't tell anyone, and why they don't shout about what they're doing from the rooftops, and tend to deny they did what they did if and when they get caught.
Nothing you're asking about or have asked about here is silly, by the way. All of the questions you have asked are really important questions, even if they're things that don't have simple or easy answers, or even if and when the answers don't make everything crystal clear.
(I'll be back here tomorrow, by the way, if you want to keep talking.)
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
P.S. You are my hero today. Going to your parents with that, especially after initially disclosing went so badly, is so brave and amazing.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I'm glad I was able to talk to my parents too but it makes me mad how they react. They said that if I tell other people I'll be "bragging" about it and "tattooing" this onto myself. That made me feel even /more/ ashamed. My dad is especially insensitive, he kept saying "what? Do you think that by telling everyone what happened you're going to save the world?" It hurts that he thinks putting me down is fair right now.
What makes me most mad is that I know if they had listened to me the first time around, I wouldn't have had to tell them what happened in such graphic, vivid detail. I feel like THAT was just as big an invasion of my privacy as the actual experience.
I love my parents but if they hadn't been so blind to what I was saying, I wouldn't be here now. I used to be so open about my sexuality and now I'm just starting to regain that confidence and its because of Scarleteen not them. And they've never really talked to me about sex (I just think they're embarrassed, it's not that they have anything against it but nontheless) so I spent years and years thinking "but if I had an orgasm, it doesn't count as abuse so I can't tell anyone. This is my fault."
Posts: 78 | Registered: Dec 2012
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It sounds like they are really only seeing the stigma in having been a victim, rather than the strength survivors can get from not remaining silent. For sure, I understand how frustrating and hurtful they can be.
And I agree, you shouldn't have had to tell them twice, nor tell them more than you felt ready to.
Am I right understanding you have only seen the therapist you have once so far? Are they someone you like, and someone who seems well-versed in helping and advocating for survivors?
Do you want some help in ways to perhaps trying to explain more to them about how silence can hurt victims and what value speaking out tends to have?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Also, I know I suggested some books for them, but these links online might also be of help, either to them directly, or for you in your own healing or communicating with them:
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Yes - I've only seen my therapist once and she has worked with hundreds of other abuse victims. I just hope that she is open to talking about feminism and sexuality or else I just won't feel like she knows where I'm coming from. I was thinking maybe I could show her these messages or even tell her to look at Scarleteen for herself.
I really would love to be able to have my parents listen to me. They keep saying "we're protecting you because kids will bully you if they know" and "you'll thank us when you're older". They keep telling me to put myself in their place but they haven't made ANY effort to read about this or discuss it further.
Posts: 78 | Registered: Dec 2012
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By all means, share whatever you like from here with her. It might also be helpful to include the whole of the discussions we have been having so she has a good sense of what we've been talking about, what some of you're struggling with most is, etc.
(Mind, she'll most likely want to talk to you about you more than about feminism or politics, because that's her job, to talk about you. But your interests should certainly be part of that, as they're part of you.)
Hopefully, this therapist can help advocate for you with your parents, including telling them things like that they HAVE to educate themselves well around this if they are going to be helpful to you, and also that they have to do their own healing and emotional work around this so that their own struggles and feelings with it don't bleed out all over you.
I wonder if you feel able to try and express to your parents that -- not knowing what your abuser did -- one of the biggest ways abusers take power away from victims is by making them keep the abuse a secret, forcing the victim to live in silence and shame in a very isolated way.
Breaking silence in ways that a victim feels safe doing and able to do is a real way many victims really take their own power back. For sure, it's not safe to tell everyone, and some people will be awful about it. But most of the time, a victim/survivor has worked so hard to even get to being able to talk about their abuse, and that's taken so much, that their sense of who to tell and who not to can be, and should be, IMO, trusted.
It might also be worthwhile to point out that you have lived through the ultimate bullying, really: sexual abuse from a family member. You know full well how much being bullied and harmed can hurt; most likely better than they do at this point if neither of them were victimized by your abuser or anyone else in the family. It sounds like, perhaps in their denial -- which again, is a common thing that happens as parents are processing this -- or shame around the abuse, they might kind of be putting more focus on far less possibly traumatic things that could happen to you than the very real, highly traumatic thing that already has.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Those are good ideas as to things I could say to them - I'll try to talk to them later tonight. It's hard to forgive them if they keep doing and saying things that you don't want them to.
I also feel very dependent of them - if I had other people who could listen to me, I wouldn't need to just keep pretending I'm ok with them (which I do a lot because whenever I cold-shoulder, I just feel really lonely.) Talking to you guys has helped so much but my parents continue to make me feel like I have no control.
I hate the person who did this to me but I hate my parents for not doing ANYTHING to prevent it. They failed at their job. I feel like my trust in people is just gone. I mean, in a way, that's why I felt so concerned about these ideas of sex and masturbation is because it's the one time I feel like I get to be in control and I don't need to depend on anyone else. Is it bad to think of it in this way?
Posts: 78 | Registered: Dec 2012
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posted
You know, it's okay if you feel angry with your parents, per how they're handling this now, as well as about things you perceive they did or didn't do that made you more vulnerable to the abuse, enabled the abuse, or have just made this whole deal harder.
In other words, you don't have to forgive them: not now if you're not there yet, not ever if you don't want to. Forgiveness is a feeling and a choice: it's not required. And I think, personally, YOU are who you need to take care of the most right now.
Of course, you do have to live with them, and if you value your relationship with them, then over time, you'll all want to be able to sort through this together and heal as a family, too. If you're angry right now, that's okay. If you can't forgive them, that's okay. I'd say the goal right now is just to be able to live together, to start healing for yourself and together, and to -- them too, not just you -- find ways to understand each other and to get the support and help you need.
So, no, I don't think any of what you're thinking or feeling here is bad. These are your feelings: you're entitled to them. And the fact that you're able to articulate and express them is a very good thing when it comes not just to your healing, but to your family healing, too.
Btw, one way it might be more workable for them to be asking you to put yourself in their place is if you could get an agreement that ALL of you consider where the other is at, giving equal time to that. And equal investment. For instance, if you ask them what their place IS and how they are really feeling, then they take a turn listening to you. If you get some education about what they're going through, they get at least as much, if not more, since it was you abused here, about what you are.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I guess I don't have to forgive them now if I don't feel ready and well, I don't.
Would it be fair of me to ask them to let me NOT stay with my other grandma (not the bad one) when they leave on their trip? Here are MY reasons:
1. my friend and her family know nothing of this whole chaos and I'd really enjoy being completely away from it for a little
2. I deserve to have say in who takes care of me and who I stay with (now more than ever, since had they given me that chance before, I could have been safer)
and lastly, 3. I should be able to decide where I feel safest and that is with my friend right now (a friend whose family my parents are best friends with)
OR...are my parents doing the right thing?
Posts: 78 | Registered: Dec 2012
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I think it's fair to ask for just about anything like this. You're only asking for something, after all, not demanding it.
And I agree, it sounds like you've got sound reasons for wanting to stay with your friend. I'd just go ahead and put it out there to then.
I would just be a little careful with #2 there, because it could sound a little like a guilt trip, as in "You chose who I stayed with before and they hurt me, and that's your fault." Of course, it isn't their fault, it's the fault of the person who actually abused you. And really, they do probably feel like it IS their fault as it is.
Sure, they might bear some responsibility around awareness with this, and certainly for sending you back there after you disclosed abuse, but you want to support your own healing, and healing in your family, not manipulate with guilt (even though I'm sure that wouldn't be your intent).
Know what I mean?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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You're right...I just feel so angry at them. I think I should talk to them and then I can get back to you with more then
Posts: 78 | Registered: Dec 2012
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Like I said, I think you've every right to feel angry.
If it helps, it might be helpful to think about ways you can express that anger which honor it and where it comes from, rather than which might exploit it (again, obviously unintentionally).
It's sound to be angry at people who were supposed to protect you for not doing what they could to do that. At the same time, they are only people, just like you and me, and people make mistakes, sometimes HUGE ones. Expressing that you feel angry and betrayed and let down and vulnerable in terms of them is okay: you do feel that way. Playing on how badly they might feel about that and their own anger with themselves (which I'm sure they have)? Doesn't really honor your anger, if you catch my drift.
By all means, I think as much and as well as all of you can talk together is a good thing. We're here when you need us, and fully support you taking all the time you need to talk with your folks as feels right to you.
(I'd just also suggest when you next see the therapist, all of you check in about how much of that she thinks is a good idea to do without someone like her helping you all with that. Obviously, we don't want anyone to get any more hurt in this than has happened already.)
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Heather, will you be here again tomorrow? My mom is locked in her room alone, crying and I just don't want to talk to anyone right now but tomorrow I would.
Posts: 78 | Registered: Dec 2012
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I hope you -- and your Mom -- are able to take good care of yourselves tonight. When you want to talk again, just give a holler, and I'll be happy to jump back in.
Btw, since it looks like you're in the states, these are some online resources for your mother to find support around this (including some sites/orgs where she can connect to other mothers who have been through what she's going through), should she want and need it: http://www.againstsexualabuse.org/resources.html
I know, and understand, you're struggling yourself right now, but it sounds like she is, too, and it just might be something to give her for her own self-care if you're around when she does come out.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Just wanted to let you know that I need to head out a little early today, I'm afraid, and won't be back again until tomorrow (my hours are primarily during the day most of the time).
But I will be back then, and, of course, we may have volunteers around tonight should you want to talk to someone besides me.
Hope you are doing well today.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63426 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Yesterday we all went to the therapist because my mom read my diary and realized how upset I was. I'm so drained from all this, I get home from school and just fall asleep. What's worse is we have finals next week and I'm stressed, angry and I can't handle this all at once. I just don't know how much longer I can do this.
Posts: 78 | Registered: Dec 2012
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Robin Lee
Volunteer Assistant Director
Member # 90293
posted
HI aechristine16,
I'm not surprised to hear you're so exhausted. You're going through some big stuff, with big emotions, right now.
How did things go at the appointment with the therapist?
Do people at school know what is going on? I'm wondering if it would be worth cluing them in so that they know you're under a lot of stress and not performing your best right now. What do you think about speaking with a guidance counsellor at school to let them know what has been going on?
-------------------- Robin Posts: 4407 | From: Washington DC suburbs | Registered: Dec 2011
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