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Author Topic: Is it really so "special" after she has had multiple sex partners?
RB211
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Hi there,

Have been browsing this site for a while as a way to figure out some of the unknown about ladies, so will do my best to get right to the point / issue and keep a VERY long story, short (well, as short as possible...)


I'm a 23 year old male (yeah kinda old for this site but that is ok) and have had nothing but bad luck with women for as long as I can remember. Of course, any human being will have ups and downs or issues with certain areas of life but this was constant and someone is yet to show me otherwise. All the lies, rejection etc have really altered my view on things over time and even added fuel to the fire of some other problems such as depression.


Starting out young like elementary school or high school being "Not their type", "Just a friend", someone they date out of revenge or someone they only hang out with or call because their bored really was a shame. Of course, so much more that i'll not even be able to list all but you get where this is going.


Even attending a Catholic secondary school, the lack of morals people had kind of took my by suprize. Was shocked to hear and see some of the things the girls were doing, even friends of mine who were "good" all through the 4 years but near graduation just snapped sexually.


Had no proble with being single most the time but the lack of female love or attention through that stage of development hit hard. Growing up only to see things get worst with serial dating, hooking up etc etc. People having sex for reasons such as bordem, revenge or because they feel turned on.


I lost my virginity at 18, summer after graduation. Not only because a girl who at the time was perfect came into the picture but also to get it out of the way knowing how things are out there. She of course turned out like all the rest and we grew apart, she ended up with other guy(s).


After seeing what all the girls I know have done sexually etc it really makes me question a few things 1) If I ever want to get married 2) After all of those partners do they truly mean what they say to you? 3) Oxytocin levels / bonding, a person who has had multiple partners is likely to have a few issues later down if they realize it at the time or not. To me sex was a sacred act, that should be saved or held back on until marrage or the right one comes along at a proper age. Also seems like an important part of marrage to me, for people to be compatable in that department. Can not see a couple where 1 person had only 1 - 2 partners and the other had 10 - 40 or more and not have some issues in the long run because it seems to be a big thing with me even though most ignore the huge double standard they create. So many STD's, STI's and stuff out there it is what keeps me waiting and only had the 1 sexual partner in my life time until now.


Again, joining this site to learn more about women in that sense (the stuff that is not often talked about, if at all). I know there are a lot of ladies here so would love to hear the answer to this. Thanks in advance [Smile]

[ 10-16-2009, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: RB211 ]

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Heather
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Before I say anything else, know that the stuff you hear about Oxytocin is largely political propaganda, not actual science, and it has little, at best, to do with much of anything. And the same goes double for all the propaganda about people being less likely to bond with people if they have had more than one sexual partner. That's akin to suggesting parents who have more than one child are less likely to be able to bond to all their children. It's bunk, all of it, and has been debunked very completely long before now.

Setting that aside, what I am hearing from you, mostly, is simply that you have felt and still feel, lonely, rejected by women as a romantic/sexual partner, and disappointed with your own experiences with dating and partnership so far. I also hear some pretty strong judgments you're making of others, but I suspect that has a lot to do with the way you're feeling about your own experiences and jealousy around the experiences of others.

I do feel the need to call you out on some of those judgments, especially since I see some double-standards in them -- for instance, you judge those you perceive to have chosen to have sex out of boredom or because they felt sexually aroused (which is a usual common reason all people have sex), and you judge the girl you slept with for "turning out like all the rest" because you grew apart (which I'm not sure why you seem to see as solely her fault), but you don't seem to hold yourself to the same standards in having chosen to have sex in part to "get it out of the way." Your title also suggests that you may hold women to different sexual standards than you do men. See the double-standard there and some of the iffiness of those judgments?

What I'm not sure about is what your questions are. I mean, I see you're asking if you ever want to get married, but that's not a question someone who isn't you could possibly answer. I hear you asking if everyone is sincere in the world, but that's not that involved: we know that some people are and some are not, in pretty much any kind of human exchange, not just with sex or romance.

So, can you perhaps refine more, for me, of what you'd like us to help you out with?

[ 10-16-2009, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather
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By the way, if you and I are going to talk, I want to be very above board with something so that you're aware, and so we can both be candid.

I'm almost 40. I have had more than the 10-40 partners you're referring to, and I also am totally STI-free, most likely because I have been very good about safer sex and taking care of my sexual health right from the start.

I'm also someone who has done my job for a long time, and I can tell you flat-out that I have never seen that one group of people with X number of partners has more or less issues with sex or romance than someone with less or more. I've answered hundreds of questions from people having issues who have had but one partner, ever, even older married couples, and the same goes for people who have had two, five, ten or more.

So, not only am I going to ask that because of folks like me, you make an effort to try and talk about this stuff respectfully -- especially if someone like me is the person helping you out -- I'd also suggest trying to have an open mind about some of the ideas you have. By all means, I respect everyone's varied sexual ethics and ideals, and if you feel (even if your choices have not reflected that) that for you (you can't speak for others, after all, or know what's best for others), sex would be best saved for marriage, I'm glad to support you in that idea and that aim. However, both so we can all communicate together without those of us who have lived outside your ideals feeling tarred and so that you can perhaps get to a place where you feel better with all of this, I'd encourage you to come to a discussion like this willing to at least consider that your unhappiness and dissatisfaction are probably not going to be made better with strong judgments or stereotyping, okay? [Smile]

[ 10-16-2009, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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RB211
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Heather,

First off I wanted to say i'm deeply sorry to have worded this in a way that might come off as offencive to members of this fabolous site or people in general.

That is exactly why I have registered and want to learn more, have an open mind and hear both views / sides of things.

Please know i'm doing my very best to communicate this but it is not easy for me, as it is something that is pretty much never discussed at all, espectially with members of the opposite sex.


You have given me a great answer to a question that was very general and not even worded properly, that I can admit and i'm thankful for. Again, insight from a great, knowledgeable lady such as yourself and the many others here is exactrly what is needed, and could be a wakeup call to start changing my thinking pattern.

Again, i'm sorry and please understand as a male (who does not ever discuss this sort of thing) it is very difficult to open up in the first place, let alone know how to word it properly. This could pretty much be (and clearly is) a problem with me, so please help! [Smile]

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Heather
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Believe me, at this stage of the game and my life, I'm tough to offend. I'm used to dealing with sexual and gender stereotypes, and while I don't like them, and work hard to dismantle them, someone walking in thinking this stuff doesn't really offend me. It'd be someone continuing to place it on me or others either a) after they knew better and/or b) after people like myself or others asked not to be spoken of with bias, etc. Sounds like that won't be a problem. [Smile]

And again, I'm glad to help, but I need YOUR help with a place to start. I still don't understand what you're asking for, so some pretty tangible, clear questions I can answer or help you to answer for yourself would be helpful.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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RB211
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Alright, tried my best so far and here is what I have come up with

1) How can I deal with / solve the clear issues that have developed?

2) Should it ever be brought up or asked in a relationship (my obvious guess would be no because it seems the number of past partners is meaningless but for some reason still gets to me a little).

3) What should I do or consider if this sort of mind set continues throughout life?


Again, please bare with me. Trying to filter out so much on my mind and put it into a 1 sentence, clear question but having a hard time still.

Basically want to know how to work towards breaking this thinking pattern, being more open minded, understanding and not letting the obvious issues get in the way of a possible future relationship by hurting or offending my potential partner.

Will continue to try get it as 1 clear question but this is years of un answered things built up trying to come out right now post by post.

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Heather
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Okay, these are some places where I can get a start.

In terms of your mindset, I assume you're talking about the rough feelings you have about women and relationships. In all honesty, I don't think it's out of your control per thinking that way: you can choose to think differently about this than you have been, which I'd obviously suggest working towards.

I think something that might help with that is recognizing that it has probably been coloring both your perceptions of others AND how they perceive you. In other words, some of this may be a big part of WHY your experiences have been what they have been.

In terms of that and dealing with all of that, that really depends on how you want to go about it. That's something a good counselor could be great for, but you also can work on it by talking it out with others (like here), doing some reading that might help (I'd be happy to suggest some), etc.

Per your second question, by all means, sexual history is something partners will usually discuss, for a few reasons. It's a typical part of conversation around safer sex and sexual health. As well, our sexual history -- no matter what it is -- if a part of our whole sexuality, and our relationship history is part of who we are as people as a whole. We might also sometimes discuss previous partners with current partners in the context of talking about things we have liked and have not.

But I would consider what your motives in asking are. Are they about those things? Or, are they about you seeking information you feel will tell you all you need to know about someone based on nothing but if a person has had previous partners or not? If it's the latter, how do you see that as positive or beneficial?

Perhaps more to the point, if you feel you're still strongly uncomfortable with someone having had any previous partners -- and since you've had them yourself, it doesn't make much sense/isn't fair/feels creepy to suggest you should only seek out those who have had none -- do you think you're really in the best place to be that intimate with someone else right now?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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RB211
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Yeah, I too think it can be changed and want to have it changed more than ever, but either part of me inside still holds me back or it is one of those things that is much easier said than done in my case.


That could very well be a big part of it and if so would not want it to hold me back from happiness or a life partner any longer. Talking to others here (espectially the ladies to get their view) will help, bigtime. My desire to better understand this situation, educate myself far more and being able to figure out where things stand for me in this department and if this truly is something that could easily be changed without the actious of others (along with my help) to break the pattern and show otherwise. That being said, i'm more than happy to read up on topics here that could make me look at everything a bit differently or question my current views.


Makes perfect sense put that way about sexual history, my fear is giving off subconscience cues / signals that it bothers me if she has had many (and it should not matter, I know). Like I said, trying my very best to have it not matter if possible and be able to talk / ask about the topic in a way that would not be hurtful to a woman in the future.


My reason for wondering is partly based on the sexual history aspect and discussing things that were liked / disliked in the past, just getting to know your partner. I'm well aware that no one is perfect, people can change and have made mistakes in the past (if not, they would hardly be human). The issue for me the best it can be seen now is just being with a person who has had totally different views on sexuality. A person who is all for casiual sex (to each their own), serial dated over the years, hooking up at bars / clubs and so on. Makes me question the future, if myself and a lady like that could ever truly be compatible and work out. Maybe she prefers a more experienced man or would feel hurt being with someone with much less experience knowing how some could think of that. Stuff like that is what makes me wonder, also.


Like stated above, it is mostly the extreme stuff but even that does not change the fact a person can be a good one. Keep in mind, as a male who has only had 1 partner and bad luck with women for whatever the reasons may be (me of course partly and some of it them depending on which ones)it is a bit difficult to understand, and relate to the fact that a person who has had multiple sex partners is absolutely no different. Thankfully being able to read up, and ask questions here will for sure change that in time along with the situation itself changing with my help. I do not expect a virgin because that too seems unfair to the girl if she wants someone on the same level as her / virgin. More just wondering the experienced female side of love, sex, marrage and relationships. Because as of this stage (like most or any other men) i've got no clue exactly how most women view this. Even though this is not a relevant example, the closest thing in my mind that would be similar to how i'm thinking is like a sport. Say, Skydiving, one heck of a thrill but after a while once you have a few jumps under your belt it actually does get boaring as you become more fearless and want to take on new challenges to get the adrenalin pumping. Part of me wonders what if for some sex is like that, gets to a point where they did it a lot for many years and want to have a partner on the same level. The other half of it agains that could be maybe they do want a partner with very few even if they have a lot, because they could feel it would be even more special to that person wether it is true or not. A bit silly yes, maybe but again i'm doing my best to communicate what is on my mind [Big Grin]


You have no idea how greatful I am for your help! It is not easy to open up to people locally about some of these topics, so this really does mean a lot to me being able to post and read at this forum to learn more and change things [Smile]

[ 10-16-2009, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: RB211 ]

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Heather
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quote:
Makes perfect sense put that way about sexual history, my fear is giving off subconscience cues / signals that it bothers me if she has had many (and it should not matter, I know). Like I said, trying my very best to have it not matter if possible and be able to talk / ask about the topic in a way that would not be hurtful to a woman in the future.
I think there are two things you can do to be able to have those conversations and also have them in a way that isn't hurtful to someone else. The first thing to do would be to be sure you're not putting yourself IN those conversations or situations before you earnestly feel emotionally ready to handle them. The second would be that when you feel you are, and then are having those conversations, to just own any of your own thoughts, biases or insecurities as just that, rather than expressing judgments of others. For instance "I want to know this about you, but I'm also still working on some of my own discomfort around it, and on getting rid of some old judgments I had with this. So, while I may not be totally comfortable with this, understand it's not about you or any of your choices, but about myself," is, for instance, a very different statement than "You having had other sexual partners makes me wonder if you can bond to me or if sex is special to you." See what I mean?

By all means, when any of us choose partners, we usually look for people with whom we have a good deal of commonality. So, someone who likes casual sex or random hookups not only probably isn't the best fit of a partner for you, you probably aren't going to be for her, either. Just in terms of what you talk about your personal values, beliefs and wants in a relationship, that just doesn't sound like it'd be a good fit for either party. And there's nothing the matter with that. Compatibility matters, and this -- within reason -- can be one area of such.

Rather, it's about accepting that it may well happen that the person you fall in love with, and who falls in love with you, has a different sexual history than you have, and if and when that happens, it's a matter of accepting that person for who they are -- since that'll be EXACTLY the person you love, it's part of them -- and not either making character judgments about them based simply on having a different history or based on your own insecurities that may be triggered by their different history. Heck, while some of what you've said here sounds like a reflection of certain beliefs, other parts of it sound like envy to me. In other words, like you're being particularly harsh because, even if not ideal, other people have had partnerships when you wanted some too, but they didn't happen for you.

Again, that'd be understandable, but also something you would want to check yourself with and have an awareness of if it's the case.

You also might bear in mind that someone's ideals about sex may be different than yours based on far more than how many partners they had. Your ideas may not mesh with their bodies, for instance, and what feels good to them. They may have different beliefs about marriage or religion than you. They may communicate differently than you do. Someone having the same number of partners as you had, or the same kind of history, isn't going to mean you two will be similar sexually or want the same things.

I'm going to toss you a couple links that might give you some extra food for thought before we chat more, okay?

Ready or Not? The Scarleteen Sex Readiness Checklist
An Immodest Proposal
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advice/how_many_partners_do_most_people_have_in_their_lives_and_is_everyone_serially_monogam
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advice/hes_new_to_sex_im_not_and_i_think_his_values_are_killing_our_sex_life

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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RB211
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Thank you very much for those articles to read, Heather [Big Grin] Those along with the actual questions / topics started in the forum by females do open my eyes to the other side of things.

Read them a while ago but did A LOT of thinking and reflecting before posting and it has made me wonder something.


Do you think it could be this way for me (not just because of the obvious bad past experiences) but because no girl has ever, truly loved me yet and made an attempt to show it and make a difference?

After looking at all of the content it makes me wonder, when this does happen some day that it could do just that and in itself pretty much correct this.

The feelings inside are not so much jealousy that I wanted a lot more partners, but it to me is human nature for an individual to desire feeling wanted, loved, cared for, special / valuable to the opposite sex (in my case as a straight male). Being over looked, hurt constantly, left or having others picked over one for so long can prove the opposite and possibly cause this from what i've been experiencing.


I truly do feel myself viewing it all a bit differently, slowly but surely. This site is a REALLY big help, indeed.

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Ecofem
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quote:
Originally posted by RB211:
Thank you very much for those articles to read, Heather [Big Grin] Those along with the actual questions / topics started in the forum by females do open my eyes to the other side of things.

Hi RB211, I'm not Heather but I wanted to follow up on some points. [Smile] I'm glad you liked those links and recommend you keep reading more Sexpert Advice articles to see not only some solutions but also what others are going through. Here are two recent ones that I'm big fans of:
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advice/why_is_one_group_of_women_so_different_than_another_when_it_comes_to_interest_in_sex
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advice/how_do_i_tell_my_boyfriend_i_dont_think_hes_ready_for_sex_yet

quote:
Read them a while ago but did A LOT of thinking and reflecting before posting and it has made me wonder something.

Do you think it could be this way for me (not just because of the obvious bad past experiences) but because no girl has ever, truly loved me yet and made an attempt to show it and make a difference?

You know, I'm sure there have been plenty of women who *have* loved you over the years and shown in but in ways that you haven't considered as important; women like a family member or a friend doing something for or with you, just going out of her way to help or make your life better because they care. And if you can't think of any specific examples of this, I'd suggest you start exactly there: focusing on the platonic friendships with the women in your lives because I believe to be a good romantic/sexual partner, we need to be good friends first and foremost. It can seem hard at first if we're not used to that kind of relationships with women but it's absolutely a good way to start.

Are you doing these same things for the women in your life, showing you care and going the extra step for friends/family/co-workers or even strangers?

While you're really focusing on things like someone who loves you and vice versa, I do want to point out how truly rare it is to find that kind of romantic/sexual/emotional/etc. match for ANYONE. When it does happen it can be really special and certainly more than once but it often takes time, and you're really more than fine in terms of a timeline or age. Just give yourself-- and them!-- a break. [Wink]

quote:
After looking at all of the content it makes me wonder, when this does happen some day that it could do just that and in itself pretty much correct this.
I gave you some suggestions up there; basically, I'd focus on your platonic friendships and work on how you're viewing relationships and women and sex and what not. Because I think you're being unnecessarily and unfairly hard on not only women in general but yourself, too, and working through those feelings -- which you are starting, go you! -- is going to make you happier in general and able to eventually find a relationship that has all the qualities you want. But first I'd work on your own happiness.

quote:
The feelings inside are not so much jealousy that I wanted a lot more partners, but it to me is human nature for an individual to desire feeling wanted, loved, cared for, special / valuable to the opposite sex (in my case as a straight male). Being over looked, hurt constantly, left or having others picked over one for so long can prove the opposite and possibly cause this from what i've been experiencing.
OK, so if it's not so much jealousy, I get the feeling it may be a bit of a self-esteem issue. That's ok but something to work on, too. What things could you do to make you feel good about how you are? I hear so much self-focus here, which is ok but I'd recommend shifting from seeing yourself as someone more active in this: not that you're a lonelyheart who people reject (putting the blame unnecessarily on others when it isn't even about blame, it's all fine!) and working on making yourself into the person you want to be or would want to be with (you know what I mean!) Cultivate and show your love for the world around you, be it friends, family, strangers, pets, the planet, etc.!


quote:
I truly do feel myself viewing it all a bit differently, slowly but surely. This site is a REALLY big help, indeed.
I'm glad to hear it! Give yourself time and space for this... it's a long process, a lifelong one really, but there are so many benefits. [Smile]
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Heather
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By all means, feeling lonely can be very painful. And by all means, we can solidly say that most people, of every gender, have the desire for both sexually and emotionally intimate relationships. When we have that desire -- and it is a pretty basic human need -- not having those relationships can be painful. Being in emotional pain, feeling ignored or consistently overlooked can certainly cause people to feel bitter and unloved.

But I think it is REALLY important not to try and put all the love we want and need in one box: in other words, we can get the love we need from a variety of relationships, not just sexual or romantic ones. Yes, there's something different to the latter, but at their core, all intimate relationships we have of EVERY kind, are in many ways the same: we can love and be loved in them in a way that meets our most basic needs. What are your other relationships like, with family and/or friends?

I think one thing it's important you do is recognize that you have probably been just as selective in your partnerships as others have in the partnerships you have wanted with them. In other words, would you get intimately involved with anyone at all who gave you the opportunity? Probably not: most people would not.

I also think you have to be careful not to get in a mindset that says everyone else has been "chosen" but you. That's not only just not true, it's also a very easy route towards getting really bitter, towards closing your heart, and also in vibing out that kind of toxicity, if you get my drift. In other words, that vibe is something any of us seeking out partnerships tends to want to stay very clear of.

Remember, too, that you are still very young when it comes to the big picture of your lifetime. As well, love is something reciprocal: if we come to it with it being too much about getting OUR needs met or being validated, we can't expect to really experience it because that can really leave the other person out; can be a very poor environment to try and grow love in. And sexual validation? it's a very different thing than love. You talk about girls not "truly loving" you, but in so much of the thread here, I don't see you talking about love, but more about sex. Heck, even look at the title of this piece.

I highly doubt having a love relationship is going to totally change all of the feelings you have expressed here: that is an awful lot to ask of one relationship. As well, I think a lot of this has to do with you and you alone, how you think, how you're contextualizing things. While relationships can certainly alter how we think and feel, they don't tend to have the capacity to miraculously change longstanding mindsets and ideas, no matter how awesome they are.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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