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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Gender Issues » What roles do you play, and how do you figure those out?

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Author Topic: What roles do you play, and how do you figure those out?
CJT
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I'm curious as to how people feel about constructed gender roles and where we get the information that dictates how we act in romantic or sexual relationships?

Do you feel like you're obligated to act in a certain way in a relationship because of your gender? How did you learn what those roles are? What would it mean if you were to stray from what is "expected" from you?

Regardless of your gender identity, how did you arrive at your own definition of what it means to be a man, a woman, or however you identify yourself?

As a guy I feel like I have a pretty conflicted relationship with how masculinity has been traditionally constructed. It's taken me a lot of time and effort to redefine masculinity for myself and to see that, for me, I can do things that may be considered typically "women's things" (I knit, I bake, etc) and that does not make me less of a man. But I'd also say that there are lots of people who would disagree with my assessment of masculinity.

What do you think about any of this?

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tallia7793
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I think my ideas of gender were based on my parents. My mom is a housewife, but no less intelligent or creative or sharp for it. My dad works outside the home, and is very chivalrous and thoughtful.
As for myself, I want to work but also would love to help raise a child, run a household. And I court people like all get out xD Flowers, good food, opening doors, being helpful, a dash of flirting, everything. I've always been proud to be a girl, but I also *love* being gentlemanly, silly as that sounds. And, I feel that my personality can encompass those traits from both genders (so far as I perceive them.)
I don't know if this is quite what you were wondering about, but that's my input anyways [Big Grin]

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CJT
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I know plenty of women who enjoy showing gentlemanly behavior! It's interesting, though, how those qualities have come to be identified as "gentlemanly", as if it's not within the realm of women to do those things.

But I'm all about people forging their own paths and it sounds like you're happy with your personality and character traits.

How do other people take you, as a proud girl, acting in "gentlemanly" ways?

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pcwhite
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Hi, CJ. I'm not in a relationship, so I'll try and answer this one...
quote:
Regardless of your gender identity, how did you arrive at your own definition of what it means to be a man, a woman, or however you identify yourself?
...because I really don't know what it means to be a man or a woman or something else. The more I've been reading and thinking and puzzling it out, I'm realizing that "male" and "female" are fabricated identities...I mean, not even just gendered behaviour, but gender itself. At the moment I think I belong in the "something else" category...like occupying some nebulous space between the diametrically opposite poles. But then I have to step back and remember that even the "poles" don't really exist, so I don't have any frame of reference with which to situate myself. So it gets weird.

I mean, sometimes I try to articulate why I feel different inside my own head, but it always follows the default line of "I do behaviour X, which isn't girly," "I don't have girly traits, or particularly manly ones either," "I don't feel that my breasts are alien, but it wouldn't bother me to see them go; they're a bit of a nuisance, anyway." It's mostly about behaviour...although that last one breaks the "behaviour" pattern, I guess. The point is that my distinctiveness falls apart when you realize that oh, yeah, girls and guys can do all these things and not be "less of a man / woman." (Though I've noticed that the insecurity is almost always around "less of a man," probably because of cultural misogyny...as in, if you're less of a man then you're more of a woman, which is inferior.)

I'll be lurking around on this thread a little more...I'm dying to see what it is that cis men and women use to structure their identities. I have no idea if their identities are as baseless as mine, or if there really is some tiny voice inside people's heads that says "I'm a man!" or whatever.

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CJT
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Hey pcwhite,

Yeah, it can be pretty complicated to arrive at a definition of what exactly makes a man a man, or a woman a woman.

When I think about gender (which is more of a social construction than biological sex), I think of it as a spectrum, not as discrete categories. So maybe you have Male or Man towards one end, and Female or Woman towards the other end, but there are an infinite number of points along that spectrum.

I think the idea of a gender binary (meaning there are two and only two categories for gender, and you must either be a man, or either be a woman) doesn't nearly begin to describe most people in the world.

For me at least, when I think about gender as a spectrum, there's automatically less pressure to measure myself up to some--as you wisely noted--pretty fake and contrived standard of What It Means to Be a [fill in the blank].

When you see yourself as "something else", what does that mean for you in how you fit in with the rest of the world...since, sadly, the rest of the world kind of seems to be stuck in that place of polar opposites? I know that can, at times, be a huge challenge!

I'd love to hear more about your thoughts and experiences around this [Smile]

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pcwhite
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quote:
When you see yourself as "something else", what does that mean for you in how you fit in with the rest of the world...since, sadly, the rest of the world kind of seems to be stuck in that place of polar opposites? I know that can, at times, be a huge challenge!
It actually doesn't cause me a lot of interpersonal angst. I think this is mostly because I'm pretty selective about my friends, and my general peer group is mostly arty high-achieving liberal students. (small aside...some of my friends are so passionately liberal that they participated in a vote-swapping group for their first vote ever, just to fight against the Conservatives.) So, they're pretty accepting of gender-transgressiveness, and queer people aren't shocking to them.

What does happen is tiny moments of awkwardness. It'll come up sometimes, that somebody casually turns to me and says something like "Well, you're a girl, you get it." I mean...no. I can usually avoid affirming that person's assumption just by filling the short silence with a hand movement or something, then letting them continue, but in the end it's like a lie by omission, and I just let them believe the wrong thing. I do this because it would be too complicated to explain the whole thing, they probably wouldn't get it anyway, and it would derail the conversation completely.

The main reason I think I can get by with so few questions / stares is that it's more socially acceptable for women to approach the realm of dressing in drag than it is for men. I mean...look at the way an average guy dresses, and then put the same outfit on a woman. Chances are you won't even notice she's in drag...she just won't look preppy. Flip the sexes of the people involved, and people will balk. Ugh. I guess this point works in my favour, but I don't want to be invisible. I want people to know I exist, and that I have my own damn identity. It's like a funny comic I saw on the internet a few years ago about the "new" punk, how what was once a rebellion against the mainstream becomes the mainstream. [Razz] So now I feel like I have to up the ante and lean more butch, dress in nothing but hard core drag and shave my head or something. But even this would be full of snags, because I'd have to explain myself to my nosy family and then they'd be weirded out and it would just be awkward. Sometimes I have little fantasies about moving across the country and assuming a new identity, just to get rid of all the baggage of my old whitewashed self. Sigh. It's so much easier to establish a new identity when you don't have to simultaneously unravel the old one.

...whew, that was a long post. It feels good to assemble all my thoughts in one place like this, anyway.

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Idir
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I come from a culture with an important emphasis on traditional gender roles, but I have the privilege of having some very liberal parents.
I think that I'm slightly more feminine than most of my peers, and *people* blame it on the fact that my dad works all day and I spend a lot of time with my mom at home instead, but hey I'm still... more or less a stereotypical-looking male with more or less heteronormative behavior.
I know. I'm horrible [Razz]

Um. Here's a slightly politically incorrect discussion I had with my girl friend (did you notice the space between "girl" and "friend"? Good):
Me:I'm such a loser, I can't even cook rice
Her: Why would you want to do that? That's what wives are for.
Me: ...
Her: Oh. I forgot. You're gay. Well, that sucks. Learn how to cook, queer boy.

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I know there is an over the rainbow for me.

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CJT
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pcwhite, I'm glad it feels helpful to talk about this stuff. We're always here to listen and occasionally maybe even say something helpful [Wink]

I agree with your statement that it can often times be easier for folks who were assigned female at birth to dress in clothing of the "opposite" (if you want to believe that exists) gender. Certainly a female-bodied person in pants raises fewer eyebrows (and generally less risk of a more extreme response) than a male-bodied person wearing a dress, to put it simply. In my experience it also seems like people are understanding of assigned-females who want to wear men's clothing, like OF COURSE, but could never get why someone who was assigned male at birth could want to wear female clothing. I personally think that has a lot to do with a wide cultural devaluation of women.

You also said,
quote:
So now I feel like I have to up the ante and lean more butch, dress in nothing but hard core drag and shave my head or something. But even this would be full of snags, because I'd have to explain myself to my nosy family and then they'd be weirded out and it would just be awkward. Sometimes I have little fantasies about moving across the country and assuming a new identity, just to get rid of all the baggage of my old whitewashed self. Sigh. It's so much easier to establish a new identity when you don't have to simultaneously unravel the old one.
A few things to say and ask about this....

I hope that you feel that you have some kind of community wherein you aren't rendered invisible. Because, you know, if you want to shave your head and dress in a particular way then great, go for it, but only if you WANT to and not because you feel like you HAVE to. I can understand not wanting to feel invisible, and wanting the right to your own identity, no matter how nuanced it may be...I know that can be pretty tiring to work at.

Is there any kind of like-minded community where you are?

As for the fantasies of moving away and starting a new life, I know many trans people (and I'm not trying to ascribe that label to you if you don't take it, just that this is where my knowledge is coming from) who either want to or do just that.

I also know that our histories tend to follow us, and so while it's a nice fantasy to think that if we just physically moved away from all that is tied up in identity and community and culture then it would be easy...and you usually have to work through that unraveling piece regardless.

If you don't mind my asking, is there a place you feel stuck in terms of doing that unraveling work on your own and where you are now?

Let me know if I can be at all helpful in that process.

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CJT
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Thank goodness, Idir, for your smiley face after your statement about heteronormative male behavior being horrible, else I'd have to launch into a tangent about potential good in everyone!

Though you likely didn't share that conversation with your friend to have me blah blah about deconstructing it, I do find it interesting how people still assume that withing same-sex or same-gender relationships, or any kind of queer relationships, that there still needs to be a "male" and a "female" role. I wonder what you, or anyone else, think about that? Is that actually true? How much does that belief reflect reality?

And, as is, we can talk rice cooking strategies if you're interested (though it doesn't seem like that's the actual point of your post) [Smile]

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tallia7793
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It is a little funny how people think, innit? [Razz]

Frankly, I don't think anybody notices really...it's just how I've always been [Big Grin] Maybe when I start really dating people will mention it, but I doubt it...could be surprised though [Smile]

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CJT
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Tallia, rock on! I'm sure any future partners you may have will appreciate you for all you have to offer.
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pcwhite
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hi CJ. I was being a little hyperbolic when I said I almost felt like I had to do the whole drag-and-headshaving bit...I do want to push things, but I'm trying to find that spot on the gender expression continuum that's more butch than most (straight / cis) women would go, but not so far into drag that I'm pushing more butch than most men. arrgh, delicate balances...the whole point is to be true to myself, but part of that includes marking myself as different. So I guess what I'm really trying to do is just push the edges of my fashion sense out a liiittle bit further, so I can find the best balance between comfort and statement of identity.
quote:
Is there any kind of like-minded community where you are?
Luckily, yes. My university has a pretty solid GSA-type of organization (it's called GQE, Guelph Queer Equality), and I went to my first event there last week. Yay! Everyone had an awesome time, and it was a really nice antidote to isolation. But it's kind of weird running into people from the GQE on campus, because we look over at each other and it's obvious we recognize each other from there but we don't say hi because there's this paranoid fear that the other people around will somehow guess how we know each other and then bang, outed. Guelph is a pretty hippie liberal school, but there's always bigotry everywhere, and we've had some problems with hate graffiti before. (When I look at this in writing it seems like this paranoid fear contradicts my desire to express myself, but at least when I'm outing myself there's a measure of control.)
quote:
If you don't mind my asking, is there a place you feel stuck in terms of doing that unraveling work on your own and where you are now?
hmm...not so much stuck, really, but I'm frustrated that I have to assert my identity more gradually than I'd like, just to avoid questions. It's like...I've been hiding my whole life; I just wanna get it over with NOW. But going slowly looks like the best plan for now, so...*shrug* I don't think there's anything more you can do to help, but you've been really helpful already, anyway. [Smile] Thanks for listening.

oh, and Idir, don't feel so bad about not knowing how to cook rice...the last time I tried I left it on so long that the rice ended up about as crunchy as it was in the first place. [Big Grin]

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Idir
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quote:
Originally posted by CJT:
Thank goodness, Idir, for your smiley face after your statement about heteronormative male behavior being horrible, else I'd have to launch into a tangent about potential good in everyone!

Though you likely didn't share that conversation with your friend to have me blah blah about deconstructing it, I do find it interesting how people still assume that withing same-sex or same-gender relationships, or any kind of queer relationships, that there still needs to be a "male" and a "female" role. I wonder what you, or anyone else, think about that? Is that actually true? How much does that belief reflect reality?

And, as is, we can talk rice cooking strategies if you're interested (though it doesn't seem like that's the actual point of your post) [Smile]

I believe that pretty much all people are basically good, too, so don't worry [Smile]
Y'know, people always tell me to use more smileys. I sound too serious sometimes...

And I totally agree on that point. I don't know if you know the movie "For The Bible Tells Me So", it's a movie for Christians to reconciliate their faith with their homosexuality (I'm not Christian, but my friends insisted that I should watch it) and there was this scene where a gay couple ('twas "back then") was invited to a talk show, and the host asked them who was "the woman of the relationship", and then they said "There is no woman in a gay relationship. That's the point of male homosexuality." and then she was looking strangely at them.

[Roll Eyes]
^ like this.

I think it's because people assume that there has to be an "active" and "passive" role in bed (not necessarily, though, at least according to the Scissor Sisters) and that this means that the "active" partner has to behave manly while the "passive" partner has to behave womanly, which isn't as predominant as people assume. While I'm probably the latter (because as a virgin, I totally know [Big Grin] ) I still don't behave "womanly", but I'm not the "straight-acting" kind of guys that hide their feminine side to conform as much as possible to be accepted by society. I'm just me. I'm Idir [Smile]

And I could tell you about the "rice incident" I had a few years ago, but I'm sure you don't wanna know. But I caused the fire alarm to ring, and I'm pretty sure I've indirectly fed the sewer alligators.

*runs and hides*

[ 01-13-2009, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Idir ]

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I know there is an over the rainbow for me.

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CJT
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Well, pcwhite, I'm glad that you have some community at your school, and perhaps as you get to know folks from your alliance and those relationships start to build, people may feel more comfortable? I know that you mean, though....I went to a pretty liberal university but there were still plenty of pockets of less-than-acceptingness there.

Unfortunately fears are not always based in total paranoia. I think it's good to be mindful and safe (though crappy that we have to take that burden upon ourselves and somehow it fails to be incumbent upon those being hateful to change their behaviors) but, at the same time, hopefully that does not have to rule your life. Like you said, it can be a drag to feel like you need to slow down your plan or actions when you don't really want to.

That said, sounds like you're making good assessments about your situation and just taking care of yourself.

I'm glad I/we can be helpful! You always know where to find us if anything comes up or you want to keep up the conversation. I love talking about this stuff [Smile]

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CJT
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Idir, you said:

quote:
I don't know if you know the movie "For The Bible Tells Me So", it's a movie for Christians to reconciliate their faith with their homosexuality (I'm not Christian, but my friends insisted that I should watch it) and there was this scene where a gay couple ('twas "back then") was invited to a talk show, and the host asked them who was "the woman of the relationship", and then they said "There is no woman in a gay relationship. That's the point of male homosexuality." and then she was looking strangely at them.
Yep, I have seen it and it's a great movie (if you have more thoughts about it, I'd also encourage you to bring it up in the Sex & Spirituality/Religion thread we have going on elsewhere on the board).

I totally agree with your assessment about roles, and how really there's a lot of diversity regardless of the gender of the people in relationships. Certainly we know that far from all women are passive or want to take on that role in relationships, and certainly not all guys want to be active or aggressive or whatever. And that paradigm doesn't at all take into account those who don't necessarily identify as men OR women, or those who feel that they have elements of multiple genders within them, or anything like that.

Sometimes I wish that queer and/or gender diverse had more role models about views of different types of relationships...but, then, it's not even like hetero folks are really getting a message about accepted diversity of relationship roles or types, either.

Now, if only we could change the world?

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Idir
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lol. We probably can't change the whole world that much, but we can surely change the way we act in our own relationships.
For example, we can rebel by not abiding to the gender-role binary imposed upon us by society, and we can simply act in the way we feel comfortable instead of how we are supposed to act.

It's pretty funny to see how much I'm hypothesizing sexuality and relationships, even though I've had none ...
*sigh*
None yet [Smile]

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I know there is an over the rainbow for me.

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CJT
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It doesn't seem weird to me that you're able to talk about this stuff, or hypothesize. We're all in RELATIONSHIPS with other people, whether or not they are sexual or romantic. I don't think that gender stuff only applies in sexual situations, you know?

I kinda think that the more comfortable we are with ourselves, and the more authentic relationships of all types that we have, then the better we become at relating to everyone. Know what I mean? Awesomeness should not be confined to only sexual relationships!

[ 01-14-2009, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: CJT ]

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Idir
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That's true, it's not like gender roles are something only used within romantical/sexual relationships, we also should act the way we want even within platonic relationships, or any other interpersonal interactions!

But well, as there should be some limits, as there should be a certain "wall of separation" between one's private life and academic/business life.

Right?

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CJT
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Idir, I'm not quite sure I'm following your question about separation between private life and academic or business life with relations to gender role or gender behavior.

Can you tell me more about what you mean? I don't just want to take a stab in the dark at guessing [Smile]

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Idir
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I just wanted to say that I slightly disagree with you when you said that we should be comfortable with our gender identities in all relationships we have, because that would also include one's job or place of study, and I don't think that it's appropriate to have gender roles there.

I mean, you're supposed to be working/studying, and these things aren't really related to that, isn't it?

But I think you were referring to friendships or one's family when you said that "awesomeness should not be confined to only sexual relationships", right?

Hm. I think even I am not sure what I wanna say [Frown]

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atm1
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I don't know if people want to take this topic further down this road, but I just wanted to respond to what Idir said about how it's not appropriate to have gender roles in places of study and jobs.

The reality of my experience as a woman in the field of physics is that there are HUGE differences between the way male and female students are treated by many professors, professionals, and other students in the field. I don't think that this is the way it should be, but I do strongly feel that the gender roles that do exist need to be explicitly discussed. I need to be comfortable being a woman within a physics department, and for me, that has to do with asserting my femininity in a very particular way (I'm not gonna go into this too much, because it's really complicated). You can't just say that gender roles shouldn't be a part of a field when they are so deeply ingrained that they will take generations get rid of. So I think that it's entirely appropriate that I intentionally present myself in a feminized, yet subversive way (ie, I wear lots of skirts and heels, yet am highly assertive and vocal in class/study groups, handle the male beer-drinking culture with ease, etc).

I even think that in the future *if* gender discrimination in the field magically disappears that everyone has a right to present their gender identity as they see fit and *create roles for themselves* that they find compliment that identity.

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bluejumprope
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I think "awesomeness should not be confined" to any relationship. I think people's work should be a meaningful pleasure, that allows/encourages them to express their gender identity as freely as they want. Same with places of education. I don't think it's healthy (except when it has to do with assuring one's safety) to radically compartmentalize aspects of oneself.

And, the "walls of separation" I'm imagining (primarily remaining closeted about queerness) are usually not a personal choice, but a response to unfriendly/dangerous social situations. People definitely need boundaries between their private lives and what they share with the general world, but I think our gender expression tends to bridge those two worlds.

I might argue also that gender identity is primarily a social phenomena and so is actually most relevant in a work/academic situation. For example, I tend to feel much more gendered at school than around home alone or with my partner. With someone I really know, gender fades into the background more. [Edit: Actually, I'm not sure if that's true...gender is confusing]

[ 01-18-2009, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: bluejumprope ]

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Idir
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quote:
Originally posted by atm1
(I'm not gonna go into this too much, because it's really complicated).

But that would really make it easier to understand for me, because I think I deviated again [Frown]

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I know there is an over the rainbow for me.

Posts: 84 | From: Algeria | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CJT
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Idir, I wonder if you view gender roles and sexual roles as the same thing? Perhaps your sexual roles, inclinations, or preferences don't have a big place in your work or academic interactions, but I would put forward (though it's totally fine if we disagree on this one) that you can't remove gender from ANY interaction, even school and work.

I think that our world is a really gendered place, and pretty much wherever you are, the first thing people will judge upon meeting you (and I think this is often done unconsciously) is decide whether you are a guy or a girl and act accordingly.

So, ideally, we can all feel comfortable with how we ourselves identify as gendered beings (or not, if we choose not to identify) because, in my estimation, we are never free from gender in social situations. Whether we choose to live up to the expectations that others have for us or about us is a different matter, though!

Does that make sense? What do you think?

Don't worry about whether you've "deviated"--I think that no matter how we all end up thinking on the matter it's an interesting and important conversation!

Posts: 384 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CJT
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quote:
Originally posted by bluejumprope:
And, the "walls of separation" I'm imagining (primarily remaining closeted about queerness) are usually not a personal choice, but a response to unfriendly/dangerous social situations. People definitely need boundaries between their private lives and what they share with the general world, but I think our gender expression tends to bridge those two worlds.

I might argue also that gender identity is primarily a social phenomena and so is actually most relevant in a work/academic situation. For example, I tend to feel much more gendered at school than around home alone or with my partner. With someone I really know, gender fades into the background more. [Edit: Actually, I'm not sure if that's true...gender is confusing]

I think you make some interesting points here! I also believe that gender is largely a social construction.

Our respective gender identities may or may not feel particularly political or pressing or revolutionary, but, yeah, gender expression sort of puts things "out there" a little more than internal identity does. While I don't think we necessarily have a lot of choice about how we experience ourselves internally, there is more leeway in what we put out there for others to see about us (through clothing, mannerisms, etc). That's the "expression" piece.

And I think you're right on when you point out that a lot of factors can influence how we feel about putting our identities (by means of expression) out into the world. Sometimes that can depend on how safe we feel, how confident we feel, what kind of support we have, who will be around, etc.

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pcwhite
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quote:
Originally posted by CJT:
I think that our world is a really gendered place, and pretty much wherever you are, the first thing people will judge upon meeting you (and I think this is often done unconsciously) is decide whether you are a guy or a girl and act accordingly.

This point is resonating with me because of several arguments I've had with my mom recently and it's always about the same thing. It always comes up when we're (I'm) discussing how aggressively adults impose a gender identity on little boys and girls...she accuses me of taking the "most extreme" position when I tell her I would dress a boy in pink frilly skirt if that's what he wanted (or something similar). Her argument is that allowing children to just dress however they want to is harmful, because little children are traumatized in some way when strangers confuse them for the opposite sex. Is this *actually* true? And if so, could we eradicate this response just by teaching our kids that both sexes are equal? (Her position chafes with me because it's mostly concern about a little boy freaking out about being mistaken for a girl...misogyny, much?)

Perhaps more relevantly, it makes me think of the way people snidely make fun of strangers they've encountered by speculating on whether the person is a guy or a girl. As if this alone is something worthy of ridicule. I'm also thinking of the way people even get their babies' ears pierced or dress them entirely in blue to guard against the chance that a stranger could (horror of horrors) mistake the kid for the opposite sex. Or people feeling uneasy about being unable to gender a stranger they're talking to (I used to feel this myself). Why the social terror? I suspect it's because of many things, but it strikes me as a very odd fear if you're interacting with the person him/herself, to be terrified of mistaking the person's sex. As if you'd ever address the person in third-person pronouns in conversation. It seems like the person is afraid they'll treat people like the wrong sex...while simultaneously denying that this is precisely what they do. ("I would treat you exactly the same way if you were a man!") Of course, people understandably don't want to offend the person they're speaking to, but I think this point is undermined by the fact that people viciously make fun of those who are sexually ambiguous as soon as they're out of the room. That type of viciousness, to me, is indiciative of the perception of threat, and not the type of anxiety that is about trying to please. Or, in the case of "girly boys", it's about misogyny.

One more thing I'm chewing on...would people abandon their gender insecurity if we did reach a point when sexism has disappeared? If we no longer had an advantage to reap by constructing differences between males and females, would we then abandon our insecurities about being mistaken for the "wrong" sex?

Posts: 21 | From: guelph, ON | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CJT
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pcwhite, do you mind if we start a new thread to discuss your awesome last post? I think it deserves a whole new section because I have a feeling people will have a lot to say!
Posts: 384 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pcwhite
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sure! should I do it myself, or is that something you're going to do?
Posts: 21 | From: guelph, ON | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CJT
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Either way would have been fine, but I took care of it since I was here [Smile]

It's now located here: http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/25/t/000345.html

Posts: 384 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Idir
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quote:
Originally posted by CJT:
Idir, I wonder if you view gender roles and sexual roles as the same thing?

Totally not. As you have said in the post below, gender is a social construction which imposes a "code of conduct" upon us based on the biological sex we're born with, so I don't view them as the same thing - and with sexual roles, there's an even larger myriad.

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I know there is an over the rainbow for me.

Posts: 84 | From: Algeria | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CJT
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quote:
Originally posted by Idir:
quote:
Originally posted by CJT:
Idir, I wonder if you view gender roles and sexual roles as the same thing?

Totally not. As you have said in the post below, gender is a social construction which imposes a "code of conduct" upon us based on the biological sex we're born with, so I don't view them as the same thing - and with sexual roles, there's an even larger myriad.
Yeah, so given that I think it's hard for me to see how we could separate gender from ANY sort of social situation....work, school, family, friends, whatever. It seems like it's always present.

But, as I said, it's cool if we think differently on this one. One of the great things about this forum is that we can get information and examine our beliefs and attitudes and have the liberty of not always having to agree [Smile]

Hope you're having a great weekend!

Posts: 384 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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