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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Gender Issues » We surrender

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Author Topic: We surrender
Rizzo
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I read this today, and it made me rather furious. I've heard of "The Surrendered Wife," and now there's a sequel on the way (a guide for single women. Something like "The Rules," I assume). Basically the author would like to send us back 50 years or so. I ought to read the book, but I know it will just make me angry.

I suppose what really bothered me about this article were the unsubstantiated quotes from Vanessa Platt, which went largely unchallenged. She claims that men simply can't deal with women's success at work, because... it's just an evolutionary fact. Women, on the other hand seem to have adapted just fine to the role of worker. Must be because women are just, evolutionarily speaking, better at adapting .

So (in an attempt to focus my anger), do you think men really do find deferrent women more attractive? If so, should we go along with it, or is it something that needs changing? Can we really explain away all injustices by blaming our genes? Do you have any sympathy for lonely women who'll do anything to get a man?

[This message has been edited by Rizzo (edited 07-13-2001).]


Posts: 582 | From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
John Doe
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Personally i found the article to be total nonsense. I would not want a partner like that.
Posts: 475 | From: ohio | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
'rin
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funny i should see something about those books....i got myself into big trouble over the first one.....when the shipment containing them was sent to the bookstore i work at i stuck all the copies of it into a box of returns i was processing. when the replacement shipment came in i made sure the box had an accident with a cup of coffee and got returned as defective....the third shipment met a similar fate. then my district manager called. he agreed that it was a crappy book but said i wasn't allowed to do that. i got in bigger trouble when he found out that i'd previously returned all the l. ron hubbard books in the store for "no apparent reason". oopse. ultimatly i was fine cause my boss agreed with me and thought it was kind of funny, but next time i'll just hide them in the back room instead.
'rin

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"-and i hope i'm not shooting my mouth off...again...and i pray i'm not tempting the fates....."
-james, off millionaires


Posts: 219 | From: lost in yonkers | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alaska
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahrgh.

Hated the Surrendered Wife. Hate this, too.

A man who would *take* (don't women in Laura Doyle's world not have a choice?) me because I constantly bite my tongue, am not "too verbal" and don't give my opinion....isn't a partner I would want in the first place.

Ick. Ick. Ick. Welcome to the Fifties.

And rin, lovely story. Sometimes guerilla tactics work best.

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Caro
~spanking new Scarleteen Sexpert~

"Through repetition the magic will be forced to rise."
Alchemical Precept


Posts: 4526 | From: germany | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
John Doe
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Censorship is not the answer. And your actions were censorship, just as much as if you burned the books. Just because you disagree with a book, doesn't mean that you should hide it. Down that road leads totalitarianism. A free flowing debate is the answer. There is too much censorship on sexual politics issues as it is.
Posts: 475 | From: ohio | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gaffer
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I hardly think one store not getting the book in is going to lead to totalitarianism and 1984, but you never know. :^) I think the book sounds kind of funny, like, haha, that's ridiculous funny. The article is weird, I can't really tell how the author feels about all this and it made me kind of queasy. No, it actually didn't but I like to type the word queasy, it's fun. Queasy, there, all done.

Queasy. Sorry, I'll stop now.


Posts: 356 | From: Phoenix--name that plurally | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alaska
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OFF TOPIC

*lmao*

Woah, John, calm it. Where is the censorship here? We are not talking about a publishers house or lawmaker taking a book off the market, we are talking about ONE person at a bookshop performing random acts of nonsense to delay distribution of ONE book in ONE shop. Rin is probably harming the bookshop (and the job) more than anyone else here. Not something that really puts us at risk for a 1984 scenario any second.

My parents choose to not sell certain books in their bookshop, too (namely everything by L.Ron Hubbard, which makes us get lots of cool Scientology advertisement videos) and well, it's not like someone can't go in any other bookshop or order it online instead. Bookshops (in contrast to pharmacies, for example, who I think should not be able to choose what they do and do not sell) do not have a law determined responsibility to grant access to everything.

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Caro
~spanking new Scarleteen Sexpert~

"Through repetition the magic will be forced to rise."
Alchemical Precept


Posts: 4526 | From: germany | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
'rin
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bah. if someone had wanted to special order the book i would have put it through, no interference what so ever. if someon had asked for the book before i got it out of the store i would have brought them out a copy. it's not like i set policy for the whole chain or something, or even like i post poned it hitting the floor for more than a month. i just thought that the shelf space on the new arival wall could be better filled with something that had a wider appeal and a cooler looking cover (have you seen that book? it's really plain looking, not fun to have to build a dispaly around) in the store i work in, there's a bunch of eight year old boys who take piles of the relationship books into the back and read through them, giggleing at the sexy parts and the like. please forgive me if i was frightened at the prospect of them reading even a paragraph of that book and thinking it was normal. if their parents choose to buy them the book whatever, but i think keeping it out of their hands otherwise isn't wrong.
'rin

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"-and i hope i'm not shooting my mouth off...again...and i pray i'm not tempting the fates....."
-james, off millionaires


Posts: 219 | From: lost in yonkers | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
John Doe
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Ok, I overstated the case by sugggesting that it would lead to totalitarianism, but I still think that open debate of ideas is better than hiding material. By the way as i stated above, i'm not a big fan of the book, at least based on what I read from the article. it seems unrealistic in the extreme, and just plain un natural. After my ten years of marriage though, i would be happy with a partner who did not want to control everything, and wanted things to be on an equal footing. i know, however, that not all women are control freaks the way my wife is.

By the way, yeah L Ron Hubberd's scientology books are more than a bit on the whacked out side, but he has written some pretty decent Sci fi.

[This message has been edited by John Doe (edited 07-12-2001).]


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Celtic Daisy
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Did anyone else have trouble opening the link? I didn't even get to read it.

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...Everybody knows what a store-bought sweater looks like. But man, when you see a home-knitter on the street, it's obvoius, you know?"
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Celtic Daisy
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Ooops, forgot to ask if someone could please pose a quote from it or something. Thankies!

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...Everybody knows what a store-bought sweater looks like. But man, when you see a home-knitter on the street, it's obvoius, you know?"
-Hawksley Workman


Posts: 1747 | From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rizzo
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Sure thing, Celtic.

quote:
"Endless studies have shown that men are not built to cope with women's complaints from
work," she [Platt] says. "They simply are not designed to absorb your pressures as well as their own.
Women, by contrast, possess the ability to spread their coping mechanism to encompass their partner."

...But surely men's unsupportive behaviour is simply another form of selfishness? And if women have adapted their psychological profile to succeed in the workplace, why can't men evolve to accommodate that? "They just can't," says Lloyd Platt.




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WonderGirl16
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GRRRRRRrrrrrrrRRRRRRRR!!!!

ACK! There just arent words to describe what's going on in my head right now!!!

So i'm just no going to try.... it may cause problems.....

Bleck!!!

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.*.Nicki.*.

~*~Nicki was here,
But now she's gone.
She wrote her name
to turn you on~*~


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ErinK
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Funny, that quote from the surrendered wife article reminds me of the infamous "home economics of the 1950s article" that makes the rounds in email and on web pages often.

Ah, yes, here's the quotes I was thinking of from that "article."

"Some Don'ts: Don't greet him with problems or complaints. Don't complain if he's late for dinner. Count this as minor compared with what he might have gone through that day."

"8. Listen to him: You may have a dozen things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first."

You can read a great analysis/debunking/write-up of the "fascinating womanhood" piece that I took those quotes from at http://www.snopes.com/language/document/goodwife.htm

One of the things my partners and I like best is that we can have large whine sessions about, well, just about anything with each other.

Erin


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John Doe
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Well for some guys, giving them five or ten minutes to unwind first is not a bad idea. And as for critizizing him for being late for dinner, well that would have to depend on why he was late for dinner (all this of course assumes that the woman is the one who has cooked the dinner, and the man is the one coming home from work, but the same would hold if the roles were reversed).
Posts: 475 | From: ohio | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BruinDan
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Hmm...I don't know what kind of man would like a "Surrendered" woman like that, ubt to each his own, I suppose.

I, for one, am attracted to strong-willed women. I don't know if this has anything to do with the fact that my mother ran the household with an iron fist until the day she died, but I think that may have something to do with it. Nowadays I end up lusting after intelligent women who are not shy about their opinions and are butt-kickers at heart.

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Milke
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I actually own a very similar book called 'The Total Woman' by Marabel Morgan. She's a former beauty queen, apparently, a very successful wife, and she wants to share certain essential marriage secret swith you. Her secrets are things like preparing supper right after breakfast, decorating the house without informing your husband (so he'll just have to accept it, and won't have to help), and, get this, wearing filmy nightgowns and luring the dude under your dining room table to have sex. And I realised that if any of this stuff is what holds a marriage together . . . men must be morons!

This book sounds like the Total Woman thing all over again. I think it's time we all gave ourselves a bit more credit.


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emsily0
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interestingly, i read recently somewhere that laura doyle is getting a divorce, a fact which her publusher is trying to cover up.

hehehe.

em

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Boys and girls in America have such a sad time together; sophistication demands that they submit to sex immediately without proper preliminary talk. Not courting talk - real straight talk about souls - for life is holy and every moment is precious. I heard the Denver and Rio Grande locamotive howling off in the mountains. I wanted to pursue my star further. -Kerouac


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Confused boy
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I think the last part of that article is correct. Its really only the older men who are uncomfortable about powerful women. I indeed would consider myself proud if I was able to attract an intelligent woman. I dont want someone who is just gonna sit there listening to my problems!

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'An Anarchist is a Liberal with a bomb' Trotsky


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