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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » MEMBER-ONLY FORUMS » Village People » Meow? (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Meow?
sapphirecat
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So here I am, sitting sideways in an armchair, resting my keyboard on my knees, occasionally glancing to the right to look at what I'm actually typing... except I'm not typing anything, because I don't know what to write.

So I guess I'll just introduce myself. Physically, in that weird place known as the "Real World", I'm male, about 6 feet 3 inches tall, with mostly brown hair that used to be red when I was a kid. Green bandana-headband, brown eyes, glasses, splash of glitter, lipstick. T-shirt if it's warm, some sort of pullover jacket or sweatshirt if it's not. Blue jeans and black sneakers.

I write computer programs. It's easy, and I love it. I am immune to most strains of advertising. I somehow survived school with most of my sanity intact. I am going to UB, which is too easy. I have to draw to remain awake, even in "hard" classes like Computer Organization (something like an intro to computer architecture). I don't consider myself intelligent; I just like learning, but the classes don't teach fast enough. I can spell. I use Linux because Windows doesn't customize enough.

I'm not turned on by sights, and I think that's great, because it'd annoy me if I got tingly every time someone walked by in a tight shirt. I can't stand being told I have to be macho and emotionless because I have a Y chromosome. (Genetically, I'm 45/46 girl, or 44/46 neutral and half girl, depending on how you look at it.) I feel incredibly sexy in a skirt. I'm still fairly closeted with respect to that, though, since I don't really want to have to deal with the stereotype that crossdressers are gay. It could quickly get more tedious than being asked if I play basketball.

Only two people have figured out the correct reason why I wear a daisy-chained piece of rope as a belt. Congratulations to the president of the LGBTA and her girlfriend. I think it's funny how so many people think it's a whip, and that I'm sadistic. I'm just a bondage kitty; I'm not even masochistic.

Spectator sports are silly. I would much rather sit around reading a book instead of sitting around watching people move a ball around. Speaking of books, my favorite is _Commitment Hour_ by James Alan Gardner. (That name is spelled correctly.) It follows a character as he learns about how exactly the children of his hometown, Tober Cove, change sex every year until they reach 21, when they get to choose whether to be male, female, or both (hermaphrodite) for the rest of their life. "Both" is not a choice that's accepted by the people of Tober Cove.

I think a lot, and I came to the conclusion that there are a LOT of male crossdressers. First, gender and orientation are separate. Second, assume that the "crossdressers are gay" stereotype exists because most Out crossdressers are gay. Now, nobody knows how many gays are really out there, because statistics say anything (and everyone is probably bi to varying degrees, anyway.) So using the 10% figure that's been highly popularized, there are 9 times as many hetero crossdressers as gay ones. If you submit to the studies which ask "exclusively homosexual", then there are 99 times as many. If you pick an average of a lot of studies, you get 5% of everyone is gay, leading to 19 times as many hetero crossdressers as gay ones.

I prefer not to use the term "straight" because that implies its opposite is "crooked", which is a synonym for "evil". Or maybe I should use straight, since I like irony so much. After all, I have yet to see a well-reasoned argument that concludes gays are immoral/evil.

I talk too much, and I can't believe anyone would listen to all that.

------------------
Sapphire Cat
You can love me or hate me, but it won't change who I am.

[I find it odd that there is no UBB code for underline.]

[This message has been edited by sapphirecat (edited 12-08-2001).]


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BruinDan
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Hey hey! Glad to see you're here in our neck of the woods...the friendliest board around, if I do say so myself.

Anyway, as the official president of the Village People Welcoming Committee, I just wanted to extend my hand and say "howdy." Oh yeah, and I wanted to let you know that "[u]" is the UBB code for underline...try it out and see how it works for you. See ya around!

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sapphirecat
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Hmmm... I tried [u]this[/u] and [U]this[/U], and I'm pretty sure I was awake enough to type them correctly... and I didn't see it listed on the UBB code page. One of us has to be wrong

In any case, thanks for the welcome! So if I'm a Village People, all I have to say is... Y-M-C-A!!! (Yes, I'm crazy. I like it that way )


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BruinDan
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LOL Wow, that sure is odd! I could have sworn I had just done some UBB underlining a while ago, but then again it could just be my brain losing complete function in anticipation of my college graduation. Sorry 'bout that...I guess we'll just have to make do with the neat italics and groovy bold instead.

------------------
"Task Force 46, Light Force 34, Engine and Rescue 66, Battalion 3, Division 2; respond into the Greater Alarm Structure Fire at San Pedro and Jefferson. Reported to be a fire at the First Alert fire extinguisher factory..."

BruinDan's Blog!
ICQ# 3953848


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sapphirecat
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Meow.

I've been doing a lot of Google-surfing recently, and everything I've found suggests that many more men are crossdressers than women. But nobody bothered to explain why beyond the obvious (for instance, BDSM-oriented sites like to say that it's part of a dominant woman making the point that her male sub is submissive.)

Since I like to think too much, I came up with a list of contributing factors:


  • As kythryne mentioned in my crossdressing thread, men are expected to stay in a gender role. Theirs happens to be much tougher to live up to, so it's more likely crossdressing can be an escape.
  • Wearing a skirt is far more comfortable than jeans.
  • Women wearing pants are accepted, so the ones that have no desire to pass have become invisible.
  • I remember Discover magazine ran an issue a while ago on beauty. Averaging photographs of faces of people creates an image generally more attractive than the images that created it. Furthermore, whether male or female, feminizing the face makes it still more attractive. It would then seem that beauty is universal, and simply asymmetrically applied to females in the past by a patriarchal society.
  • Everyone starts developing as a female, and then the Y chromosome masculinizes and defeminizes the fetus' body. Presumably, this process is incomplete or slightly weakened in crossdressers.

I don't think that last one is very major, since mind and body aren't perfectly related (example: an involuntary erection doesn't make a guy want sex right then)... but then, it deals with hormones, which do have a major impact on behavior. Another problem is that some people end up as gay and some as crossdressers, and some as both: how does this process then work? (Following the original logic that attributes femininity to crossdressing, I also attributed it to being attracted to men.)

Questions? Comments? Chocolate?


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Kite
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quote:
* Wearing a skirt is far more comfortable than jeans.

Hmmmm... don't know about that... I've always found pants to be far more comfortable than any female substitute.. except maybe for really wide flowing dresses, but then I have to worry about my underwear showing, which always makes me super self-conscious. aaaaaaargh life as a female is sooo hard

quote:
It would then seem that beauty is universal, and simply asymmetrically applied to females in the past by a patriarchal society.

Hmm, that's interesting. What do you mean by "asymmetrically applied"? Do you mean that males hold women to beauty standards, but not vice-versa? It does seem to me that the stereotypically/conventionally attractive male (say male models) are rarely supposed to be beautiful; rather, they should be handsome and virile (sp?)


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sapphirecat
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Hmmm... on the comfort issue, I guess that would be a personal thing. I remember someone in high school always complaining about cold chairs, but I didn't have much pity for her, because she didn't wear skirts long enough to reach her knees.

On the asymmetry, it seems that if a society is male-dominated, then males define what is acceptable for each sex to wear; once pretty things are assigned to females, something else must be given to males to maintain the constructions of gender.


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Kite
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About asymmetry, what you say is very probably true. But then I guess I don't understand how it relates to the fact that feminizing a face makes it more attractive to both genders. ?
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sapphirecat
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I'm back! Sorry about leaving so suddenly... I went home on vacation and realized that I was far too lazy to clean out the browser cookies/cache daily there. Yeah, I know... that's really lazy, especially when I can write a batch file to do it with a single double-click.

To answer Kite's question (finally), it seems to me that men would assign beautiful things to women because beauty is naturally feminine, as shown by the facial features study. But they'd want to look different from women themselves, so they wouldn't wear beautiful things.

Perhaps a question that would be useful in me understanding what I'm trying to say is this: Is "handsome" an exact synonym for "beautiful" in denotation, but carrying the connotation of applying to men instead of women?

------------------
Sapphire Cat
You can love me or hate me, but it won't change who I am.


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PoohBear84
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Wow... i find this a really really interesting topic that i never even stopped to think about (ahhh, i feel bad,) I don't know much about it, but i'd really like to learn.

I'd always wondered why women could dress in mens clothes and it is condoned, but never the opposite... so i guess that's thinking about it, i don't know! I just find that there is no double standard in this situation, and becuase the way our society is, is why people dress in certian ways.

But i guess you already knew that, so i just thought i'd say hi, and pop in for a sec, and say that i find this facinating.

------------------
~*Katie*~

Be yourself, because then no one can ever tell you that you are doing it wrong


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Kite
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quote:
Originally posted by sapphirecat:
I'm back!


Yay! wb

quote:

it seems to me that men would assign beautiful things to women because beauty is naturally feminine, as shown by the facial features study. But they'd want to look different from women themselves, so they wouldn't wear beautiful things.

Ah, I get it. That's a really good point, I'd never seen things that way.

quote:
Perhaps a question that would be useful in me understanding what I'm trying to say is this: Is "handsome" an exact synonym for "beautiful" in denotation, but carrying the connotation of applying to men instead of women?

Hmmmmm, I would say the answer for me is no. I know men who are handsome, but not beautiful, and some men who are beautiful, and those are usually not handsome. To me. Then again, English is not my first language I guess what makes the difference b/w "handsome" and "beautiful" for me is that beauty is something that is not applicable to looks only, whereas handsomeness is. So saying that someone is beautiful, in my mind, is in another realm as saying that somebody is handsome. I don't know, does that make sense? It's sort of like _not_ thinking of "pretty" as the same as "beautiful" only in lesser intensity. I guess I'm taking this a bit too off-topic though...


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sapphirecat
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I could swear I posted something at 5:00 AM. Oh well... the net's been on the fritz lately because of <sarcasm>Verizon's high-quality lines</sarcasm>, and I was up most of the night...

I think the best part about Scarleteen is that it has a space for me. I don't know exactly where it is, but it's here somewhere; perhaps it's made up more of emotions and impressions than physical Web pages.

If I had to say where my space is in terms of pages, I'd have to say the two that really reached out to me were the Boys Will Be Boys... or Not article on sex and gender, and the Bi the Dozen quiz. Let me look at each of those in more detail.

I did a lot of Net-searching in general around the time I first found ST, and "Boys Will Be Boys... or Not" is the only article that explained intersexuality and gender identity without making me feel somehow excluded from it in any way. All of the other things I found in my search concerned themselves with helping transsexuals, full-time crossdressers, or their partners.

I had a vague idea (I had discovered through first-hand experience what (hetero) girls mean when they say a guy is drool-worthy), so I answered every question on the "Bi the Dozen" quiz as if I myself were bisexual--and to my surprise, I only missed one. That's what really got me to questioning, leading me to find out:


  • I can love anyone.
  • There are cute people of both sexes (I've yet to meet an intersexed person in offline reality).
  • I wouldn't mind doing some things, like hugging and cuddling, with anyone.
  • I am only interested in having sex with women.
  • I have not yet been turned on by only the sight of someone.

Fortunately, by the time I'd gotten all this sorted out, I'd learned I don't need a label to exist.

Before I fall asleep writing this, THANKS to everyone who's helped, whether either of us know it or not.


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sapphirecat
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<rant annoyance="1263%">Someone spammed me the other day. But not just any spam... a 785 KB spam. 13% of my mail quota, right there. Worse, they left all the addresses in the "To" field, so my address is all over hundreds of other mailboxes--any of which may be owned by spammers laughing themselves fuzzy as they harvest the addresses from that. RAAR!</rant>
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rekling
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hmm...
you said you have yet to meet an intersexed person offline...how do you know that?
unless youo've examined the genitals of each and every person you've met, *and* talked extensively to them, *and* talkd ot the doctor who may have performed some surgery on them at a young age...you really have no way of knowing.
careful what assumptions you make.

the beauty of gender is its ablity to confuse us and play tricks on the mind.

<hugs> and no gender today,
-rek


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rekling
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oh, and PS, i was drawn to your thread becuase it is called "meow" and as a fellow cat-person i had to say hi.
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sapphirecat
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Okay. Technically I have yet to meet anyone who draws any attention to the fact they're intersexed.

After several attempts to say something more, I've decided I'm just irrationally defensive. Maybe that's because I'm always supposed to be right, because I'm the "smart kid". *sigh* So many stereotypes...


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justagirl04
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Hey... do you happen to be a fan of Blink 182? I jus thought I would ask, since the name of Blink's first album was Chesire Cat, and your screen name is sapphirecat. Just wondering...

------------------
my awesome website

I talk to you every now and then,
I never felt so alone again.
I stop to think at a wishing well,
my thoughts send me on a carousel.
Here I am standing on my own,
not a motion from the telephone.
I know not a reason why,
Solitude's a reason to die.

"Carousel"-Blink 182


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sapphirecat
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I've never heard any Blink 182 (or if I did, I didn't know it was them, which is practically the same.) Rush is my favorite band, and I like Shadow Gallery and Dream Theater as well. I also listen to classical music, and some random CDs from U2, Gin Blossoms, Pearl Jam, and the like. When my brother was up for Christmas, he brought some Chemical Brothers CDs, and they were pretty cool too.

It's so nice to have a modem again. The ice storm a couple weeks ago toasted my old one. Apparently all the Solaris boxen are rooted by a person working off the eng mail server, and CIT doesn't care.


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BruinDan
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quote:
Originally posted by sapphirecat:
and some random CDs from U2, Gin Blossoms, Pearl Jam, and the like.

Hey, that sounds pretty cool to me! I've got random CD's from all three that I adore as well. "New Miserable Experience" is one of those CD's that I can pop in and be instantly transported to 8th grade with...just incredible.

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sapphirecat
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Arrrgh! I posted something in BruinDan's thread, and it seems Mozilla (that's "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011012" to ubergeeks) re-sends the form every minute if there's no response from the server. You think double posts are bad? Wait until you see a 9-tuple. It seems like someone's deleting them as I edited them to ">_<", though, so THANKS to them! Now I'm going to time this so I don't 9-tuple post here and activate flood control again...
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sapphirecat
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LGBTA. Tau Sigma. UUAB movies. I seem to be getting a life beyond this screen. I wonder if it's worth paying $2.50 to sit through The Fellowship of the Ring in April... (I have seen it already.)

I signed a petition against one of my professors today. I still wonder if it was right...

We were supposedly given 3 weeks on the project. Sample code to help us along was going to be up [accessible on yeager] on Monday, 2/18. Then it was going to be up Tuesday. Then it was going to be up Wednesday afternoon. It finally made it up, only to undergo a reasonably major revision on Saturday, and another minor one Monday (2/25). Then today, the Demo files were updated again because they'd segfault if you gave them an invalid filename. After some complaining, the due date was pushed from 3/8 to 3/11--which means that once the sample code stabilized, we only had 2 weeks to do the project--AND there was a disincentive to do it, because the code is not guaranteed to be stabilized.

Different parts of the project were posted in 2 different places, neither of which referenced the other. One of those places is the website of the previous instructor for the course.

We just got the first homework assignment today, due in one week.

We spent the first 9 classes going over C++ in excruciating detail, with no example code beyond cheesy little "virtual void print()=0 // pure virtual function" type things. When he did pointers, he tried to explain it in terms of what really goes on, instead of an analogy. Which is easier to understand: "p is like a mailbox. It's an address, and the actual data is inside that mailbox, which you can get with *p" or "p has some value, say 100, and at that location in memory is another value, say 75, and at that location in memory is the data value, say 25. So when you use p, the C++ compiler looks in address 100, and when you use *p, the compiler looks in address 100, sees the 75, then goes and looks in that address, and finds the data value. 25."

Hm. If I can rant like that, I probably am justified. On the other hand, dragging basic Big-Oh notation out across 3 days and counting is quite an accomplishment. So far we still haven't learned O(N log N) is better than O(N^2), and most of today was spent discussing summation vs. integration: something that takes about 10 minutes to draw and point at. At this rate, we are never going to get to graph theory.

Is it bad if the book is better than the professor?

[This message has been edited by sapphirecat (edited 02-27-2002).]


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Kite
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Huh. It seems CS professors are disorganized everywhere It might be that your professor compensates his/her laziness by being lax about due dates. Have you checked?

A course that covers big-oh, c++, summation/integration AND graph theory?? What is that? Sounds pretty broad...

quote:
Is it bad if the book is better than the professor?

Hmm, I thought that was pretty much the rule, and the reverse was the exception... That seems to have been true in almost every math or CS course I've ever taken.


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Kite
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Oh, and I find the second pointer explanation easier to understand. Not everybody likes analogies and examples. (Somebody should tell that to CS students taking math classes )
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sapphirecat
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The course is titled "Algorithms and Data Structures", and it's 200-level (second year of college, for those hailing from countries with different educational systems). C++ is the language used for implementing algorithms, although at this rate, we won't have any time for that. Most of the people there came in from 115/116, which are taught in Java.

My description of pointers left out the full experience... the professor has a thick Indian (as in from India) accent, and wrote the diagram of what's happening in memory in a small space on the overhead, then further filled it with some other variable so he could explain that *p was q and &q was p. This doesn't work well with people who haven't ever seen a pointer.

If I was teaching the course, I'd give the concept first, in terms of mailbox analogy. Then I'd give the syntax. As for what really goes on out there in main memory, I'm not sure that teaching that would help anyone... those who won't go experiment on their own don't have the skills to program well, and spoon-feeding more knowledge to them won't change that. Right?

This first project involves implementing a database as classes. Nothing like highly realistic projects to keep people interested in CS.

[I'm coding a real database-powered website to run with apache+mod_perl in my spare time. I ended up this low on the course structure because I'd never heard of OOP before college. IMHO, that's because OOP is terrible.]

I spent two hours debugging today. I fixed about 8 bugs in my code in half an hour, and one bug in the sample code (which is supposed to be right) in the other hour and a half. That last one was a killer... but now I know NULL is defined in <iostream>. At least it compiles now.


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Kite
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quote:
This first project involves implementing a database as classes. Nothing like highly realistic projects to keep people interested in CS.

haha. I hate that. There are lots of CS courses I haven't taken precisely because of sh* like that.

quote:
IMHO, that's because OOP is terrible.

OOP? Terrible? Why? All OOP, or C++ and Perl OOP?

I used to program in Perl a lot, but got disenchanted with it lately. Perl 6 sounds like it's going to suck. Giving all of Perl an OO bent sounds like sticking a fake mane on a camel in order to use it like a horse.


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sapphirecat
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quote:
OOP? Terrible? Why? All OOP, or C++ and Perl OOP?

All OOP, at the conceptual level, and in C++, Perl, and Python.

Trying to model the real world is flawed, because programming isn't the real world. When's the last time you told your car "car.accelerate_to(mph.convert_kmh(35))"?

Disclaimer: I've done procedural programming all my life, in 68k/x86/MIPS assembly, BASIC, Pascal, C, C++, and Perl.


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Kite
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Well, OOP to the extreme is evil. I agree. I also don't like the way OOP is done in C++. I used to hate and avoid OOP until last semester, when I took a design of programming languages class. Objects are very useful for encapsulating things that are meant to be an encapsulation. For example, a group (in the math sense), or a "agent of computation" in distributed computing.

Anyway


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sapphirecat
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Hm. Maybe if I see sensible OOP sometime, I'll like it. First I have to survive this course, then get through one involving LISP. These two are the major prerequisites for most of the 300 and 400-level CS courses. (The fun stuff.) Then I get to add "BS" to my resume and go out into the Real World.

Now I'm curious: I don't see a note about the IMG UBB code being disabled on the sidebar here, so....

[replaced with a smaller filesize picture because I pay for my bandwidth. but I left a picture there because I think it's really cool that we can put images in here...]

[This message has been edited by sapphirecat (edited 03-03-2002).]


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sapphirecat
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I saw a cartoon today. It had a big fat drunk guy wearing a "Heterosexual Divorce and Domestic Violence" shirt screaming "You are causing moral decline in our society!" at a group of "Committed Gay Unions".

I'll be a regular in #lothlorien on www.rpgworlds.com for a while. I've decided I like IRC, at least for now.


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Kite
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I use Mozilla 0.9.7, and to my knowledge it has never done that. Maybe you should upgrade, and report the bug if the new version still causes you trouble.

<Amusingly enough, this post took a long time to go through, but Moz didn't multiple-post.>

[This message has been edited by Kite (edited 03-07-2002).]


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sapphirecat
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I was cabin-camping this weekend, and in the evenings, I prettified myself. Someone told me, "Somehow, that skirt just works on you, and that's what scares me." I have two comments:


  1. I wonder how much of that effect (looking good) comes from my self-confidence in knowing who I am and what I want, and confidence in knowing that nobody in that room wants to hurt me for not being completely masculine.
  2. I am coming to think that I will never truly understand why some people are afraid of genderplay, unless my dressing awakens attractions in them that they never considered they have.

Kite: I have the full installer for 0.9.8 on Zip disk, I just haven't worked up the energy to install it yet....


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sapphirecat
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Two things:

Yesterday, someone was in the LGBTA office, asking for pledges for a marathon to raise funds to fight cancer. It is an anime marathon, and what he has to do is "stand and watch anime about a transvestite, which I don't really like, but I'll do it to fight cancer." The silence was deafening. Someone asked if he knew what office he was standing in, and he said "Um... no....." There's rainbows, "LGBTA", ACT UP, pink triangles (safe space stickers), etc. all over in that room. He was completely unsuccessful in getting any pledges.

I am going to get a ride to Jo-Ann Fabrics soon and get a skirt made that's suitable for wearing in public before April 10. That is the Day of Silence, on which I get to wear a shirt that asks people what they are doing to end the silence of LGBT people caused by hatred and discrimination. I will be pretty that day.


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sapphirecat
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Spring Break for me. I don't know how much I'll be posting... probably not much, because there's not enough screenspace here.

Besides, it's a time of introspection for me right now. I talked to a transsexual just before I left; she wants to help me in my quest to find my gender, and the main thrust of our talk was trying to put a "why" (or come up with lots of "why"s) behind my crossdressing.

Maybe when I go back I'll have questions for her. Sure, I can point out some anti-male sexism directed against me, but I was dressing before that ever happened, and I don't think two negative comments can change anyone's gender. And like she said, comfort depends on the style of clothing. But what if a "why" doesn't exist? What then?


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sapphirecat
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Disclaimer 1: If this would be good as a main thread somewhere, please let me know. I'm a little overly sensitive about doing things "right".

Disclaimer 2: This is my point of view, which is not sex-crazed, and which might be US-centric.

Disclaimer 3: I do not seek to change anything, only to understand it.

As promised, this will be an elaboration of my remark, "I don't really think that ultimately, dress code has anything to do with sexuality."

In psychology, there's something known as the "adaptation level phenomenon", which is the tendency of people to adjust to circumstances. For instance, California tends to get more sunny weather than Buffalo, but Californians aren't decidedly happier. They get used to the weather. Similarly, one of my friends once remarked, "Thigh doesn't excite me anymore, because you see it so much." He's used to it. And, at least to my limited knowledge, nobody goes insane with desire and has sex 6 times a day in nudist colonies. They're used to it.

Back to the point: a dress code is an implicit challenge: "Here's an arbitrary limit. See how far you can push it before action is taken against you." (Note: some limits, like the speed limit, are assigned with safety in mind, and shouldn't be treated like this.) No matter where the line is drawn, some people will be close to it, and some people won't want to go that far. The only thing a dress code does is further sexualize nudity.

Why are nudity and sex so intertwined? Sex doesn't absolutely require full nudity, nor does nudity necessarily lead to sex. I believe that the forces against women dressing scantily are based on the perception of nudity equaling sex, and the association of scanty clothing with sluts.

Shouldn't there also be a conflicting force pushing them to dress less fully? Something that doesn't affect men to do the same? Hm. The only answer I have that would fit those questions is "Yes. Men." But that's a generalization, because I prefer a decent quantity of clothing.

Well anyway... it's 1:22 AM localtime, and I need to sleep. Night.


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sapphirecat
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I'm scared. I've made a promise, and I don't know if I can keep it.

My girlfriend's mom is in trouble. She's spent more money and time on her boyfriend than she should've, so now she's not only in debt, but soon to be fired for taking too much time off to be with him.

I promised my girlfriend that she could come live with me if needed; the apartment is big enough.

I have no job. I have very little savings. I only have one bed and no car.

I'm going to have people in the LGBTA help me write a resume Monday, but I have no idea how that's going to work out--two of my most proficient languages (C and Perl) and all my *nix sysadmin knowledge is self-taught. What few extracurricular things I've done have been aimed at Boy Scouts, which is totally outside the realm of the type of job I want. All of a sudden, I need to look good enough on paper to get an interview, after leading a life of "I'm not doing anything just to have it look good on a resume."

Mu.

Any thoughts? Hugs?


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