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Author Topic: does anyone understand what its like
Evan
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i know that most people on this site are women, and almost none are virgins. almost all have boy/girlfriends or engage in casual sex easily
is anyone here lonely like me? anyone her past 25 and never had a relationship, anyone here get constanly rejected, anyone here a 30+ virgin and nnot by choice?

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Djuna
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Hi Evan!

For what it's worth, we did a poll of the number of oral, vaginal or anal sex partners our users have had, and 25% have had none. I don't know if that's the same or different to the definition of virginity you're using, of course - it's a tricky concept. Too, I know this might sound like me using my privilege as someone who's a few years older, and I apologise for that, but when I was your age I hadn't had any sexual partners either. I was 18 before I had sex (however widely you define that), and that wasn't out of choice - both because I wanted sex for a long time before that, and because that first time I had sex was with someone who was very coercive, and they didn't have my full consent.

I was in university before I had my first makeout session, too, and I'm only now maybe kinda-sorta in my first "relationship" (again, whatever that means) at the age of 20. Also, I sometimes find I'm able to find casual sex partners easily, and other times (like now) I'm not. I'm in a long-distance relationship for the time being, and while we're both comfortable with the other person seeing other people, I haven't been able to find someone to have in-person sex with since there was snow on the ground. [Wink] So I think I'm maybe a little like you? If we're realistic, I mean, you're not 25, and you're not 30+, you're 17, so while I absolutely get that feeling of loneliness, which sucks, maybe we can get some perspective that you're relatively new to wanting sex, and not having any right now for whatever reason doesn't mean you're unusual, and it doesn't mean that you're never going to have sex or relationships if those are things you want.

Do you want to talk some more about feeling lonely? Or if you'd prefer, if it'd make you feel more comfortable, I can tell you about long periods I've been very lonely for, which was part of why I started seeing a counsellor (which has been on and off for like three years now). Because if you're feeling lonely, that's not so uncommon a thing to feel, and you're really not alone with that, okay?

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“In a strange room, before you are emptied for sleep, what are you. And when you are filled with sleep you never were. I don’t know what I am. I don’t know if I am or not... how often have I lain beneath rain on a strange roof, thinking of home.”

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The Confused One
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Well, I am a female and I'm a virgin [Smile] . I'm also 17+, will be 18 in Dec. I have a bf, yes, but it's an LDR. Wales to Malaysia is pretty far to be able to touch each other like hold hands or hug, let alone, 'engage in casual sex easily'. So yeah, I'm extremely lonely myself. But well, I've been lonely since young, so I've learned to put up with it.

Not being in a relationship doesn't necessarily mean you're lonely, you know. And being lonely doesn't necessarily mean you're NOT in a relationship.

I think the world is very vast in that everyone is different in their own way. And so, we all experience loneliness. Whether we're lonely at a young age, or an old age, doesn't really matter. The fact is that being lonely, is not uncommon, like Patrick said. Nor is it wrong to be lonely. Being lonely is an emotion that all humans will feel.

Have you tried chatting with a friend to relieve your loneliness? I see a lot of your posts asking questions mainly about getting laid. Do you know that many of those advise you have received can lead to relieving your loneliness?

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Heather
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Just a reminder:

quote:
i know that most people on this site are women, and almost none are virgins. almost all have boy/girlfriends or engage in casual sex easily
Please do not make assumptions about our users as a group like this. As well, as someone who has run and worked demographics on the site for over a decade, I can also assure you that besides us having more users who are women, what you're stating about our users is false.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Jill2000Plus
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I didn't even make out with someone until I was 21 (I did play doctor with age peers when I was a little kid, but I didn't have any sexual partners as a teenager). And casual sex is something I would have liked to have but could find barely anyone who I trusted and thought was nice enough to be worth having it with. And you can think I'm lying all you want, but the prospect of sleeping with a conventionally attractive person who's a git is a lot less appealing than the prospect of sleeping with someone who most people would make ad hominem comments about the appearance of if they were in the public eye (say Susan Boyle, for instance), who is kind and actually cares about my pleasure.

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Always knock before entering my room when I am in there alone, as I may be doing all sorts of wonderfully thrilling things that I'd rather you didn't see.

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Captain Girl
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My recollection of high school is that I was rejected and rejected and rejected... until I grew breasts basically overnight at the age of sixteen, and then suddenly all the brandy new acceptances seemed a touch suspect.
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Evan
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patrickvienna-but you are able to gt casual sex though. youre in a dry spell right now, but there are women who want to sleep with you in the world
theconfusedone-that must suck, but youre lucky in the sense that at least a boy wants to be with you, no girl wants to be with me.
jill2000plus-you could have had sex but chose not to, thats different to wanting ex but everyone chooseing not to sleep with you

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Captain Girl
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Evan, you seem *really* focused on this issue of who wants to have sex with you and how badly you want to have sex. It's not that I don't sympathize, because really, I do. But I wonder if your intensity in this area is putting people off IRL.

You mentioned that you're still in school, which is kind of a closed environment. It's really hard to escape your social identity in a place like that, and right now, your social identity is "Guy who is unattractively desperate to get laid." You go around the internet talking about how desperate and frustrated you are. Odds are good that the same message has gotten through to people you know in reality. So now you're The Guy No One Wants to Sleep With, according to you.

And everyone you could possibly go out with is probably aware of how much you want sex, which means that every time you so much as invite someone to have coffee, she's thinking this is coffee AND SEX, emphasis as placed, and if she isn't 100% sure she wants to have sex with you, she's not going for coffee. It would help you a great deal if you chilled out about this.

And stop insisting that you're the worst off person ever in this regard. You're not even close.

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emrose91
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I'd like to remind you that having sex is not an automatic cure for loneliness. People get lonely, whether or not they're having sex; it's a given in life.

Also, please keep in mind that all these people are trying to help you. Rather than point out that their particular situations are not identical to your own, try taking their advice and applying it to your life and to your thinking. You never know, it just might help. [Wink]

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"Love is blind. God is love. Therefore, Ray Charles must be God." - Graffiti

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Jill2000Plus
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quote:
Originally posted by Evan:
jill2000plus-you could have had sex but chose not to, thats different to wanting ex but everyone chooseing not to sleep with you

No, no-one ever wanted to have casual sex with me, the only people who I can ever remember expressing any interest are men who were at least twice my age, and that didn't happen often and I don't want to sleep with some guy who has that much power over me, it is not a self esteem boost when you're pretty sure the guy only wants to sleep with you because he knows you'll be easy to control. One guy asked me out when I was in my early teens, but I honestly couldn't tell if he was joking or not, pretty much everyone bullied me when I was in school (left at 14), I also had this one boyfriend (my only boyfriend until my current one that I got together with at 21) who I never did anything physical with, as he never expressed any interest and I was too scared to ask and who dumped me for talking too much (I would have broken up with him anyway considering his attitude to my scary lady mouth and vocal chords).

[ 07-10-2011, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Jill2000Plus ]

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Always knock before entering my room when I am in there alone, as I may be doing all sorts of wonderfully thrilling things that I'd rather you didn't see.

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Evan
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im totally different on the internet than i am in real life, youll have to believe me that although some of my friends know id like to have sex and have a girlfriend, most people are blissfully unware of my desperation. i just vent on the internet.

well tbh if i did invite a girl for coffee id probably get rejected for other reasons

i am quite badly off though, i mean i want to have sex, most guys can get sex, but i cant get sex.

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Evan
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no, having sex wouldnt make me any less lonely, but having sex would make me feel better about myself. everyone likes to feel desired, but being a virgin when most of your fiends get get laid easily is like a slap in the face. its the ultimate form of rejection, not one single girl will sleep with me

i appreciae the help from everyone, i really do [Smile] but im just saying that its hard to sympathise with a guy who feels like no one likes him when clearly people like you

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Captain Girl
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What are the reasons you think you'd be rejected for if you asked someone for coffee?

What makes you so sure that your friends get laid "easily"? In my experience, there is a lot more big talk about how easily one gets laid (and by whom), than there are actual sexual encounters.

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Johann7
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Hi Evan!

quote:
its the ultimate form of rejection, not one single girl will sleep with me
I get that you're feeling this way, and that sucks. When I was in high school, there were several years where I very much wanted to be engaging in sexual activities with any number of people, but none of them were interested. I got really sick of hearing the sympathetic but unhelpful lines "You'll find someone eventually" or "Things change after high school"; I didn't really believe it, and even if I had, that doesn't help in the moment. It also always felt like a dismissal or minimizing of my feelings, which never feels good. I can definitely understand the kinds of feelings you're having about this (I won't say I can understand what YOU are feeling, because I'm not you, obviously), and I don't want to give the impression that I'm questioning their validity.

That said, I think it might be helpful to take a step back and look at what you're saying/feeling with a little bit of perspective. For example, you don't know that not one single girl* will sleep with you simply because you haven't asked every single one. I'm going to guess you haven't even asked every single girl at your school, and certainly not in your town, out on a date. I absolutely believe you if you tell me that everyone you've asked out on a date has turned you down; it might be worth taking a step back and considering whether you might be limiting yourself by only asking people out who fall into a very narrowly-defined group (e.g. only people who look a certain way, only people who do gymnastics, only musicians, only Dr. Who fans, etc.). It's perfectly fine to be attracted to the people to whom you're attracted, and there's no rule that says that you should be asking people to whom you're not attracted out on dates, but a lot of people dismiss potential romantic/sexual partners without really thinking about why, for reasons that don't make a lot of sense. I don't know that you are or are not doing this, but it might be worth thinking about if you haven't.

quote:
but im just saying that its hard to sympathise with a guy who feels like no one likes him when clearly people like you
I'm willing to bet that there are some people who like you (even if you're using "like" in an exclusively romantic/sexual way). Some of them may be feeling similar to how you are feeling; some of them might not be but may simply be too timid/shy/insecure/etc. to ask you out on a date. Perhaps the above suggestion that, because you're feeling desperate or down on yourself, you're putting out a vibe that turns people off is correct, so girls who might otherwise be interested in you are not saying anything. I know from my own experience that if I'm feeling like no does or ever will find me attractive as a sexual partner, I wind up missing signals from people who do. You might want to make sure you're not so focused on what you're feeling or on one or several people who aren't interested in you that you're missing signs from girls who are interested in you.

Even now, at 25, when I've had a few sexual partners, I often go more than a year between sexual partners. A lot of this has to do with self-limiting of potential sex partners - I have no interest in dating particularly insecure or self-deprecating women, or women who conform very closely to cultural beauty norms (I'm attracted to women who are somewhat 'butch' in attitude and appearance; nothing turns me off faster than frilly clothes and make-up, or a lack of self-confidence/assertiveness), which, unfortunately for me, describes a lot of the women I meet (which makes sense, as buying in to cultural norms is the best way to attract men who also buy into those norms). While this isn't exactly helpful advice in terms of how you might face less rejection when dating, I've found that recognizing my own limitations in desire/behaviors has been helpful in accepting the rejection I do face without it getting me down.

Too, I find it helps to remind myself that if the person wasn't interested in a romantic or sexual relationship with me, she wasn't actually a very good candidate for the role, however attractive I might have found one or two aspects of her appearance or personality. I think you're right in thinking that it helps to have had proof that there are people out there who find one sexually attractive, and it's harder to believe when that isn't the case, but of course there's no help I can offer you directly on that count.

You also say:
quote:
if i did invite a girl for coffee id probably get rejected for other reasons
If that's an honest appraisal of yourself (and not insincere self-deprecation), and you can identify specific factors that are turning girls off, you can work on those. Is your approach to conversation off-putting? Consciously practice a different approach. Do you talk about yourself too much or not enough? Ask or answer more questions. Are your only interests video games and pornography? Explore other interests so you're more likely to have something in common with others. Do you expect sex from women/think they owe you sex? Get past those attitudes - they're off-putting for very good reasons. I'm not saying any of these necessarily apply to you, or that you need to or should twist yourself into a completely different person to please others, but a little honest self-appraisal and self-improvement are not bad things. If you're facing a lot of rejection in dating - and it bothers you that this is the case - figuring out why and changing some of those things isn't necessarily a bad idea.

I hope some/any of this is helpful to you. At the very least, I can assure you that there are plenty of other people out there who have never had a sexual partner at 17, and who have difficulties in dating and face a lot of rejection at any age. Best of luck!

*A side note on language usage: I was taken to task recently by my boss for referring to one of my university classmates as a "girl"; she came to feminism in the second wave, and a lot of feminists were adopting "woman" to refer to all persons of that gender, irrespective of age or self-identification, in order to combat cultural infantilization of women, of which they felt the use of "girl" to refer to anyone over maybe age 12 was a factor. However, people in my age group in my geographical area frequently refer to themselves and others as "girls" and "boys"/"guys", generally reserving "woman" and "man" for persons over 30 or possibly older, not seeing the 'younger' labels as infantilizing (perhaps because we don't consider "boys" and "girls" to be lacking in agency, rights, ability, etc.); I'm using "girl" here because it meshes with my own experience and is also the descriptor Evan used, though it's worth noting that some might object to the label, and the way in which these people wish to self-identify should be respected.

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Saffron Raymie
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Evan, the way you keep framing engaing in sex with someone as 'getting something' shows that you are more focused on what you yourself would enjoy about doing sex with someone rather than what a potential partner would enjoy.

Someone who desires sex with you will want to have fun be excited about it, and won't desire sex if it's just about 'giving' you something. People want to enjoying doing sex for pleasure and fun for two.

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'Obtain the virgin's consent before you marry her' - Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)

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Heather
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quote:
im totally different on the internet than i am in real life, youll have to believe me that although some of my friends know id like to have sex and have a girlfriend, most people are blissfully unware of my desperation. i just vent on the internet.
How "totally different?" Different enough that you feel like you kind of put on an act?

If so, what do you think might happen if you were simply yourself? Have you considered, if you feel like you put on an act, that maybe one issue with girls not being receptive to you isn't you, but that act?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Evan
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@Captain girl-Because I dont really know many girls that Id like to ask out, and most of them ive only really admired from afar, or have boyfriends
Because most of my friend either have a girlfriend or are the type that can chat up a girlreally easily at a party, ive seen them, well i havent seen them having sex but ive seen them talking to girls then going upstairs with them for a while before returning and saying they had sex

Johann7-Just as a side note, for a lot of peple it doesnt change after college or school, some people neevr find love or have sex

No, but every girl Ive ever liked has either rejected me or hada boyfrend. And I cant really ask out strangers
Im very loose when it comes to standards, I only have a few requirements. let me know if you think theyre unreasonable
-she must be no younger than 15 and no older than 18
-she must not be overweight
-i would rather she was not a virgin
-i would prefer if she was a smoker, of both tobacco and cannabis
-somewhere around my height
-nice
-down to earth sense of humour

Im sure people do like me, im a likable person and I have a lot of friends. But thyre just friends, no one likes me in a sexual way. I dont want to encourage this line of discussion about girls who might like me. Im nerdy and unnatractive and I dont want to harbour any thoughts about secret admirers, because any girl who actually knows me either dislikes me or s my friend.
I can list somethings grls might dislike about me
Im fat
Im shy
Im awkward at conversations
Im ugly
I make vulgar jokes because Im good at them
Im no good at flirting
I dont expect sex, but i wouldnt date a girl for more than a month without having sex

Maybe there are plenty more 17 year old virgins, but theres even more who arent

@RaeRay2112-Ive discussed this with Heather before, I wasnt sure there was any point in pleasuring the partner since Id never see her again, but upon learning women can apparently sense whether Id be a good **** or not Ichanged my mind. However I do have some hygeine hangups and im opposed 100% to fingering or hand jobs, no toughing down below for me

@Heather-I wouldnt say I put on an act, but on the internet I tne dto show my feelings more whereas in real life I tend to hide them, either by pretending I dont have them or behind jokes. In real life I make a lot of jokes, usually sick jokes, theyre my speciality. In real life I act like I have no desire for a relationship unless im around a girl I want a relationship with. On the internet Im more confident because you cant see how I look.

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Heather
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Hey Evan. I can't spend much time at the boards today, but I wanted to point something out to you that's in your last post here that I think might be playing a part in both your lack of success in finding a partner and how you've been fra,ing all of this.

When I look at those two lists you made there, I see you saying that your standards about someone else as a partner are apparently not the same kind of standards which would include you.

For instance. You say a potential partner for you cannot be fat, but you say you are fat. You say a potential partner cannot be without sexual experience, but you are without sexual experience. You say you want someone nice, but in this post and others you express some behavior on your part that I think it's safe to say most people would not consider to be nice. You say you want someone down to earth, but here and elsewhere you suggest that you often really don't act like yourself with others.

So, it seems like in a lot of ways, you are only seeking out partners who, if they applied your same standards, would rule YOU out as a partner.

Can you see the ways in which that can be very problematic and limiting?

In addition, can you see how you are potentially asking things of someone else that they could not ask of you yourself, and how double-standards like that can really get in the way of both connecting with other people likely to like you, but also in the way of really seeing sex and sexual partners as something more than a means to an end or some sort of status object?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Evan
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Well im fat, but not fat-fat. Either way I disgust myself and im going to the gym regularly to try and lose the extra few pounds
I think the sexual experience one is reasonable enough, were all attracted to certain things and it so happens that im attracted to a quality i lack.
im not sure what ive said to make you think that, but i assure you i am nice, even if sometimes i say the wrong thing.
I act like myself around my friends but I bottle up my emotions. Online i try to hide my flaws. Around strangers I say and do very little, that way i avoid making a bad impression. But once you get to know me, I me. And most people like me as me, ive never liked someone who dislkes me

Even still, I dont see the problem. My friend Sarah is asian, she likes white boys. Im sure theres a white boy who likes asians. Shes very sweet but likes bad boys, Im sure theres some bad boys who like sweet girls. 2 partners dont need to be identical. Im sure theres a sexually experienced girl out there who doesnt mind, or is attracted to virgins

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Heather
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Evan, before I say anything else, I want to ask you something and you you to give it some thought and answer honesty, okay?

What I need to know before moving forward is if you feel like you have the ability or desire right now to change how you have been thinking about and going about all of this.

I ask that because we've spent a lot of time and energy talking with you, and have pinpointed some issues and problems that it's clear most, if not all, of us who have interacted with you have seen as such. But my feeling is that how you're thinking, framing all of this, and going about all of this hasn't changed or shifted in any way since you first posted.

Do you agree with me on that, or am I perceiving you and where you're at incorrectly?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Evan
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that depends on how and wha you want me to change, but its definite maybe
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Heather
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It's not about what I/we want. It's about the time we've spent talking with you so far, which is pretty considerable, and all the various ways of thinking and strategies of yours we've challenged, or asked you to question.

In all of that, I feel like you're kind of in the exact same headspace as when we started those conversations, pretty much sticking to the same ideas you had walking in. Would you agree with me?

If you would, do you feel like you have the capacity to be flexible in your mind and ideas around all of this at all, including if that involves things not being the way you think they are or want them to be?

Maybe the better way to ask this is this: you seem to keep coming asking for help, and a lot has been offered to you. But it also seems like no matter who puts something out there, you shoot most, if not all, of it down. Unless someone says exactly what you want to hear, or can somehow deliver you some magic formula to get exactly what you want, do you see yourself getting anything out of these conversations?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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luanne
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Hi, Evan. I've been following your posts for a while now.

I was picked on in school for lots of reasons, and grew up suspicious and bitter because of that. So I decided to be tough and raise my middle finger in society's screwed-up face. I did this by swearing all the time, being sarcastic, making sick jokes, condoning violence, and all that.

When I saw happy people, I'd think, "FAKEFAKEFAKE" or "They're so shallow, they have no idea what it's like to be me." I was alone in a sea of people who didn't like me. Life sucked.

You know what that's like. You're lonely too.

When I was around your age I decided I'd had enough. Something needed to change. And as hard as it was to admit to myself, since society was full of people who got along just fine, the problem was my own. Taking responsibility for that- not just saying, "it's all my fault," but saying, "I'm going to make a real effort to change"- was the hardest thing I've ever done. It's scary and extremely uncomfortable to look at yourself honestly, and decide to change instead of hating yourself.

I started with little things. I discovered that I did not particularly like sarcasm, because when it was used on me, I felt stupid and humiliated. So I stopped using sarcasm. There were a thousand little things that I changed.

Magically, people began to talk to me. Nice people. The more considerate I was, the happier I was, and the more they liked me. The most effective changes: making eye contact and smiling, being sincere, and responding thoughtfully without trying to prove I was better/smarter/cooler than whoever I was talking to.

AND. Not coincidentally, I got my first boyfriend a short time after.

I don't know if any of this helps, or whether you read the entire thing, or whether you want to apply it to your own life. But I hope everything works out in the end, because I've been lonely like you, and it sucks.

Good luck with your fitness regimen.

[ 08-14-2011, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: luanne ]

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Evan
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I guess Im fairly stuck in my ways, but I certainly have the capacity to change my opinions. There has been a lot of helpful advice, but I dont know how to take it.

Thats really familiar tbh, youre pretty much describing how I feel down to the smallest detail
The thing is, I dont know what to change. I like being sarcastic and dry, and I like having exchanges with people who are the same, so a lot of my friends are sarcastic and, well offensive too, and thats why I like them. I guess its no coincidence that the people I like to hang around with are the loners or soiety too. I often look at 'normal' people, and as much as I long to behappy like they are, I dont want to be like that. I dont want to stop making sick jokes, maybe its just me who thinks like this, but I find quirkiness to be far more attractive than conformity. I dont have any kind of delusion that Im cooler than other people in college, because cool isnt a subjective term, its a word invented by people wh are cool to refer to them. The things I do will never be cool, but I enjoy them. The music and films I like arent cool etc but in a way I do feel superior to others, because Im more independent, I dont follow the herd, I explore things, I look beyond the mainstream, I give everything a chance and have a wide variety of tastes in everything. So I suppose, Ill always be in a minority. There are very few people in college who enjoy Blondie more than Lady Gaga, but Id rather remain in that minority than change and become normal, and that spans across my whole life. Id rather not have to stop being dry, and sarcastic, and witty, and I dont want to have to be like everyone else and I guess thats why Im alone

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Heather
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Reading this, can I ask how you feel about looking to meet and date others who are more like you? One thing I moticed in your previous posts is that when you talked about what you wanted in a potential partner (sexual or otherwise) out side of "will have sex with me," a lot of the things you listed sounded like someone very, very different than you are.

By all means, we don't need to only date our dopplegangers, but at the same time, having a good deal of common ground is most often something we need to even get along with people and have them like and appreciate us. To boot, if we think people like us aren't appealing, that's usually a signal that we have our own esteem issues we need to work on before it's sound for us to try and really connect with other people or be sexual with other people and expect any of that to be healthy for everyone.

Let's maybe try even taking this one more step down that road: would YOU want to date a girl-version of you? And sleep with a girl-version of yourself?

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Jill2000Plus
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So you won't sleep with someone fat. That's your loss, I'm fat (as in "morbidly obese" fat), and I'm having good sex with an awesome boyfriend. And I am not disgusting (and I like both Blondie and Lady Gaga, and I'm totally into alternative music and foreign films and am also a hugely nerdy anime fan, but not a gamer) and the basic point I'm trying to make here is to reinforce what Heather said about how you seem not to want to date someone like you (I'm not asking you out, I just think maybe you should consider that if you want to find someone else who shares your interests it might be a good idea not to just dismiss fat chicks out of hand) and because, hey, you said mean things about fat people and so I stood up for myself.

[ 08-17-2011, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Jill2000Plus ]

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Evan
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@Heather-I think theres several aspects of me I would want in a potential partner, for instance I would like the same sense of humour, the same dryness, and a similar taste in music and film. I would want her to enjoy drinking and smoking as I do.
Well I mean Id probably sleep with any girl so of course Id sleep with a girl version of me. And as for dating, yes I would. I would want a woman to be like me in many ways, aside from the sexual inexperience

@Jill2000plus-No I wont. And I find your post offensive and ridiculous. I dont think its at all unreasonable to have a type, am I not allowed to have preference? Are we living in a world where its not PC to reject someone because you dont find them attractive?
I see a lot of articles this site about consent, and choice about who we enter relationships with and who we have sex with, the message I usually get is that if we dont like someone we shouldnt enter a relationship with them and theres no sense in dating someone we arent attracted to. And Im sorry if I cause any offence, but I cannot and will not ever be attracted to a woman who is overweight, so why should I enter a relationship with them? Because it isnt fair on them? Many girls have refused to date me because they didnt like me in that way, or didnt find me attractive, and although I was dissapointed its their choice who they date in the same way its my choice who I date. If they want to reject me because of how I looks then thats up to them, I dont want to live in a world where people are forced to have sex with and date anyone who wants them to.

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Jill2000Plus
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Well, I found your posts suggesting that finding somebody drunk to the point it impairs their judgement to have "sex" with (I put sex in quotes because I'd describe that as rape) is acceptable and a great plan for getting laid to be appalling.

And I would suggest that being disgusted by your own or anyone else's body is not good for your self esteem or a caring attitude towards others.

There is one major thing I would like to point out which I hope could lead to a boost in your self esteem: You don't want to date anyone fat. But however, that does not mean that nobody fat wants to date you, so even if you wouldn't want to have sex with someone fat or date someone fat, there may well be someone fat out there who thinks you're a great guy and would love to have sex with you, and if your reasons for wanting to get laid are a lot to do with boosting your self esteem, then would it help if you just knew that someone found you to be desireable, even if you didn't feel the same way back? I guess what I'm saying is, that even someone you don't want to date/have sex with (and I agree with you that that's your choice), may well be attracted to you, and that can still serve as a self esteem boost even if you don't feel the same way. (I'd hope you recognise that not all fat people are "desperate" and they can be attracted to someone because they genuinely like them for who they are and not merely because they are available/more conventionally attractive.)

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Always knock before entering my room when I am in there alone, as I may be doing all sorts of wonderfully thrilling things that I'd rather you didn't see.

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Spunkmeyer
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I know exactly how you feel and then some, Im 34 and never so much as upstairs insidies
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Evan
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@Jill
I never sugested I wanted to rape anyone, and I wouldnt want someone to be drunk beyoned the point of properly consenting, but most of the bar and club hookups dont happenbetween 2 totally sober people

Ive never really considered that someone might fancy me, and I suppose if anyone ever did it probably is out of desperation because they cant get anyone better

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yeahyeahgirl
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Oooh wow. This has been interesting to read and think about.

So far, this whole conversation (in all of its varying topics) has spanned over 2 & 1/2 months. What I'd like to know at this point, Evan, is how your loneliness is at the moment?

Loneliness, at least for me, has always come in waves. Frustration with virginity comes in waves, too. While it may be in the back of your mind at all times, both the loneliness and the frustration can't be everything you feel. Are you still 17? Because at that age, even people in relationships or just those having casual sex, most people go through both those feelings quite often.

I can understand it's frustrating for you, especially as a boy where double-standards are so prevalent for those who are virigins versus those who aren't, and from what I've gotten from your posts is that you don't see sex in your immediate future (be it just sex-sex or meaningful, connecting sex).

What I'd also like to know is; is not having sex so terrible at this age for you? You, personally.

[ 09-02-2011, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: yeahyeahgirl ]

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