posted
I'm glad to have found this forum. Everyone is so literate!
This is something I've been wanting to discuss for quite some time. I've already read all of the articles that Heather has written regarding this subject (along with many others from various sources), but I want to interject some of my own experiences.
Most sex educators are adamant that vaginal "tightness" / "looseness" is a myth, but it isn't because I've experienced both. Given the facts we know about vaginas, there must be a different reason for it aside from the vagina itself.
Vaginas do differ in depth and width, significantly. I've had 7 sexual partners and the friction between all partners varied depending upon angle, speed, lubrication, etc. I also maintained a consistent sexual relationship with all 7 and was able to contrast / compare between moods, the time of the month, stages of arousal (both theirs and mine), and so on.
One girl was particularly large in both width and depth. That is to say that we both had to do various things to cause enough friction to pleasure each other, which we were both more than happy to do.
Two girls were particularly small, regardless of the state of arousal. Even in the middle of intercourse, with natural lubrication at its peak, re-penetration would require effort as there was always resistance at the vaginal opening. This was not due to frigidity, vaginismus, baterial infection, or other ailments. It was completely natural.
We all know that the vagina is a muscle. We all know that a healthy vagina can accommodate even the largest human penis. We all know that, during arousal, the vagina "balloons" internally to allow for comfortable entry. The pelvic [edit: pubic!] bone, however, is a bone. Nothing short of childbirth will change it. I'm curious to know other's thoughts on this, in specific regards to the size of the female's pelvic [edit: pubic!] bone and how it affects impressions of "tightness" or lack thereof. When inserting a finger into a girl with smaller genitals, there is virtually no give around the circumference of my finger. When inserting a finger into a girl with larger genitals, there is a bit more give around the circumference of my finger.
My experience has shown me that it's the pelvic [edit: pubic!] bone, and not the vagina, that differs in size. Vaginal "tightness" has more to do with the muscle tone and the control the woman has on said muscles. A narrow pelvic [edit: pubic!] bone opening, on the other hand, will make even the most atrophied vagina feel "tight" upon entry and during intercourse. I'm also convinced that this is a common source of discomfort for a lot of inexperienced women who feel that they are ready and lubricated for sex (and men who feel that their partner should be ready), but nonetheless have penetration-related difficulties with each other.
posted
Do you mean the pubic bone? Even if you do, that won't impact any of this, however.
There is no pelvic bone: the pelvis is made up of several different bones, not one, and that's largely the hips, which do not restrict the size of the vagina or how much it can accomodate. Something contained in the uterus (read: a growing fetus) can be affected by the size of the pelvis, but not the vagina, unless we're talking about trying to put a basketball in there. If you really look at a skeleton and the structure of the pelvis, and see where those bones sit, it's pretty obvious why that has no bearing on the vagina, particularly with something as small as fingers or a penis, since the span of those bones is far wider than either, even in very small-framed women.
As explained in one of my pieces, as well as by numerous sex and sexual anatomy experts, the differences men are going to feel during intercourse, or we might feel with partners with manual vaginal sex, are more about lubrication than anything else. Someone more lubricated feels larger: someone less so, smaller. As well, all of this has to do with how aroused the women in question are getting. I have had my hands and other things in many a vagina myself, but you have to accept that what we feel as partners is a bit deceptive in many respects. Same goes for a partner's arousal: a woman whose vaginal opening and canal remains very, very constricted, and who does not have some other medical condition, simply is not likely earnestly aroused. being in the middle of a sexual activity doesn't make arousal happen or sustain itself.
As well, it really is not sound to dismiss the results of very broad study, done in many ways over long periods of time, based on second-hand (and it is, if you're not female, owning that body) sexual experiences with a very, very small group of "subjects." Because you feel that with your very limited pool of seven partners, you have seen something different than researchers and subjects in the thousands and hundreds of thousands have, that's not really a sound basis for discounting all of that research, much of it done in far more objective and controlled conditions than any given person could have in their personal sex life.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me • Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63241 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I still don't understand, even though your reply was thorough and good.
When my finger is inside of an aroused woman's vagina who I perceive to be "smaller," it is very wet and lubricated, but there is also very little give. That is to say that my finger feels very snug, gripped by the vaginal opening (but not necessarily the inside, which generally is ballooned).
When my finger is inside of an aroused woman's vagina who I perceive to be "larger," it is very wet and lubricated, but there is also a fair amount of give. That is to say that my finger does not feel very snug, and I can fit one, two, and sometimes three more inside of the vagina without significant resistance.
There has to be a different reason other than lubrication for this sensation of tightness or looseness...
Posts: 3 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Well, it is normal for a vagina to snug around anything that is being inserted in it but to a certain extend.
When a women is not aroused, then her vagina will seem ''tighter'' but when a women is aroused her vagina enlarges a bit and the cervix highers to accomodate what is being inserted in it hence maybe the ''less tight'' feeling but as stated above, the vagina is a muscle and will close against anything that is being inserted so it generally won't seem ''loose''. It is normal when a women is aroused to be able to insert something larger than a finger in a vagina and that doesn't mean her vagina is ''loose'', that's just the way it works when a women is aroused.
posted
The pubic bone has no relevance here. It's under the mons, and is some distance away from the vaginal opening. A woman -- or you, with a female partner -- can feel it with your fingers if you go inside the vagina and feel up over the g-spot (and you can feel the end of it just above or beneath the clitoris externally), but it does not constrict the vaginal opening or the front of the vaginal canal due to its location and the fact that the vagina has a lot of room to move in, not just that one way. If it didn't, during childbirth, rather than occasionally seeing tailbones get bruised or broken (which we sometimes do), we'd see public bones get broken (which we very, very rarely do, and again, we are talking about infants heads here, not fingers or penises, which are not only smaller, but worlds more flexible): that also is a reminder that the vagina isn't limited to stretching in but one direction.
The average span of the inside cavity of an adult women's pelvis is around 11 inches. Too, even when that becomes restricting at all, we're talking about for the uterus, and possibly the waaaaaay back of the vaginal canal, not the vaginal opening, and that way back could only be restricted by the surrounding bone cavity were there, say, maybe two hands in there.
As well, it's not the vaginal opening which tents or balloons with arousal: that's the back of the vagina. The vaginal opening loosens and lubricates, becoming more flexible, but it does not balloon like the back. And it'd be pretty difficult to even feel the very back of the vagina if you were having trouble getting inside the opening: when the back of the vagina is tented, that larger cavity is usually seven or so inches in, so to feel that space, you'd have to have a hand in there, which isn't likely if a finger won't fit.
Again, this is about several things, not just one. It is about lubrication, which is tough to really measure the amount of with your fingers or your penis. It is about muscle tone and tension (we all differ in the particular tension of our muscles, and that can change from day to day and partner to partner, too) as well as general body composition (and both of these things are often not static, but can shift during a woman's life), and for some women, about pregnancy history. It is about arousal (physical and psychological: we can be wet and still not be fully aroused or relaxed) and levels of arousal. It can also be about times in the fertility cycle, certain medications, and certain medical or psychosomatic conditions.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me • Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63241 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I appreciate these responses. I'm 31 years old, and I understand that this forum is meant more for the education of teenagers, but this is the first forum about sexual topics I've found that I truly enjoyed reading, and I wanted to come here with these inquiries.
I've been inside of several different women (count: 3) during the actual orgasm process itself. It's my guess that there is no higher state of female sexual arousal than orgasm. Two were incredibly snug; I could actually feel the muscle contractions around my erection, and one even had the unintentional ability to push my erect penis out of her vagina during her orgasmic muscle spasms. The other was not snug at all during orgasm.
I suppose my doubt comes when statements are made that the internal vaginal size of all women is essentially the same.
Posts: 3 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Here's something else I think you may be missing, and I'm going to go ahead and risk some TMI here.
On some days, for me as a woman, even the entrance of a finger or penis feels like a little much and, to myself and partners, feels very snug. On other days, I have been able to comfortably have someone's whole fist in there. I have had female partners who, when reaching orgasm with my hand inside them one day, felt very snug, while on other days, not so much, all with the same partner.
Not a ONE of us women has a static size of vagina or vaginal opening, much in the way that the width of a sock doesn't really differ much when it's fresh out of the wash and there isn't a foot yet in it. We just don't. So, trying to look at vaginas and vaginal openings as differing in some static way between women doesn't make sense.
(Same goes with defining orgasm as an apex of arousal or enjoyment for all women. For some women, it is, which is likely part of why some want to continue sex afterwards. For others, it's the end: plenty of women enjoy and feel most aroused in the moments before orgasm than during. Others still feel most aroused before anything even starts.)
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me • Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63241 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I found this thread while searching for relief of my problem. My pubic bone is definitely in the way! I have a small dildo (lelo gigi) and it is almost impossible to insert it past my pubic bone; even with much patience, relaxation, and lubricant, it takes a long time and force to get it in. The gigi has a slightly enlarged end to it. Once it's in, it's completely comfortable, with room to move around. It is not muscle I'm dealing with, but the ridge of bone there, and pulling the gigi out is just as uncomfortable. I also have tried inserting a little bullet vibrator, and had the same trouble getting it in past the bone and back out. When I was in college, one ob/gyn told me I would need cesarean deliveries for my children. Years later, I was induced for delivery of my first baby, but at 6cm the dilation failed to progress - not sure if this was related to the pubic bone or not. I also had two more babies by cesarean. My husband was not very big, but we had to work at certain angles. Now I'm divorced and concerned about this being a problem in the future - if there's anything I can be doing to learn to relax the pelvic floor more (to make more room from the underside of this bone), or if I'll just need a man with a very skinny, flexible penis! I'm reading about pubic bone misalignments being treated by chiropractors, and also how shifting weight, pregnancies, muscle tone affects everything there. I feel it has gotten worse, but hope it is correctable.
posted
Zinnia: while the size and shape of your pubic bone might have affected your ability to give birth vaginally, there is no way it affects the size of your actual vagina. You may be working at the wrong angle or in fact be encountering some muscle/skin, thinking it's bone. But it's not. I study human bones, and if your pelvis was that narrow in the area where your vaginal opening is, you wouldn't be able to hold your weight or walk properly at all. It would be pathological.
Posts: 19 | From: Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Nov 2008
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