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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Sex Basics and Sexual Health » New Improved Virginity Thread! (Page 1)

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Author Topic: New Improved Virginity Thread!
logic_grrl
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The thread at http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/Forum2/HTML/002316.html was becoming pretty long.

It was also in danger of turning into a list of people giving an age and stating (or assuming) that "losing virginity" equals having penis-in-vagina intercourse for the first time.

That's not terrifically illuminating , and it runs the risk of excluding a fair number of people (gay and lesbian users of the board, for example).

So I'd like to suggest some questions for people to think about:

Why do you define "loss of virginity" in the way you do (whatever way that is)? If you think it equals having penis-in-vagina intercourse for the first time, why?

And what does that say about other sexual activities? Do they "not count" in some sense? Why?

For some food for thought, I recommend these articles:

Magical Cups & Bloody Brides
Is that all there is? - A memoir of first time sex 17 years in themaking
What IS sex, anyway?

[This message has been edited by logic_grrl (edited 04-06-2003).]


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alaska
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Thanks logic, for re-starting this thread. I’ll give it a go.

My views on virginity have changed tremendously over the years.

Growing up, the definition of virginity that me and my friends adhered to was that a virgin was a woman who had never had vaginal intercourse. Somehow, the concept didn’t seem to apply to blokes. – The German word for virgin, literally translated, is “Jungfrau” = “youngwoman”, so it seemed odd to use that for a bloke, and my galpals and I, we tried to find a word to fit a bloke who had never had intercourse, and we couldn’t really.

Virginity never mattered to me a lot. Despite being raised in the roman catholic church, I was never told I should, nor expected myself to safe myself for marriage. I was never told and never believed intercourse or sex outside marriage were impure and that I would lose anything by being sexually active. My view of virginity was more social, I guess, than anything else.

I defined myself as a virgin until I had intercourse at the age of 16, without ever questioning the concept.

After my first intercourse had happened, I didn’t feel like I had lost anything. Quite the contrary: I felt I had gained something from my first time:
Besides having had a good time, I had learned that the relationship I was in was more than I could handle back then, and that adding intercourse made things not easier, but more complicated. Simply put: I realised I just wasn’t ready and that much that I needed was missing from the relationship, namely true communication.

At the same time, - andI know this sounds inconsistent, but that’s the way it was- I did feel a certain sense of relief at the end of the day, having gotten rid of my virginity.
- Even though there hadn’t been a stigma attached to it, even though I hadn’t been alienated for being a virgin, even though there hadn’t been peer pressure, even though there hadn’t been pressure from the person I had the intercourse with. - I had pressured my partner, actually, to a certain degree.
I had never expected first intercourse to be life-changing, and realising it wasn’t, that I didn’t look different, that it didn’t magically transform my relationship or make me a real woman, was the big relief, I guess.
So maybe I thought “now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, where to, now?” and being a little lost, because there didn’t seem to be a next step I was supposed to strive for as a brand-new non-virgin.
I remember calling my best galpal that day and happily announcing that “True Love Waits” wouldn’t “want me as a member anymore” (even though, of course they do accept people who repent and pledge to become “born-again virgins”, even though to me it always seemed that born-again virgins where the second class virgins in that group, which is a tiny organisation in this country).

I made a few mistakes back then, even though I don’t feel bad about anything that happened, or regret anything, or ever lost sleep over it. Instead, I realised a few years ago, and try to be a little wiser and thoughtful these days.

First off, I confused not being a virgin anymore with true readiness to be sexually active.
Somehow I had gotten the idea that having had intercourse instantly qualified you for the next level (as mentioned before, what that was supposed to be, I didn’t really know) or having a lasting sexual relationship with a person, which it didn’t. I didn’t realise readiness was not a definite seal on the bum or medal you get awarded, and that it took more than a bloke and a condom for responsible intercourse.
After my first intercourse, which was a good experience after all, I somehow thought (and I actually had this exact though, when I was kissing a guy who had offered me a one night stand) “What the hell, now you’ve had intercourse: Go for it! It doesn’t matter anymore!” and within a short space of time had more intercourse, with other blokes, in situations where I was even less ready, that were emotionally unhealthy and fuelled by alcohol and emotional neediness and wanting to pay someone else back.

Overall, that was just not a very smart thing to do. Thankfully, I realised that quite quickly, stopped it and didn’t have any intercourse for a good long while. – Even though I had a string of relationships and affairs back then, that were sexual, too, and even though many of my partners wanted us to have intercourse.

I also never really questioned the concept of virginity: I never thought not labelling myself was an option, never thought beyond me, a hetero female and that portraying intercourse as the ultimate kind of sex was heterosexist and causing people to have way too high expectations.
I never thought beyond intercourse, never wondered whether I had a faulty logic by thinking the other kinds of sex I was having (and that I had during the long while I decided I didn’t want intercourse, too) were less important.
Back then, some kinds of sex felt less special to me possibly because of their perceived lesser pregnancy risk compared to protected intercourse, and partly because I felt back then that someone penetrating me, coming with his body into my body was more personal and intimate then say, someone performing oral sex on me.
Back then, oral sex was something during which I could emotionally detach myself from the partner who was giving me oral sex, separate myself from the situation and just enjoy. – I wasn’t looking for a true connection through sex back then (at least not most of the time), most of the time, I was just wanting to get off and feel valued and better afterwards. – No, this was neither fair towards my partners, nor healthy, nor good for me.

These days, my views on sex and its worth and its impact on people is muchly changed.

I’ve realised that putting a lot of emphasis on the first time (meaning first vaginal intercourse) is a concept that differs muchly from what my sexuality feels like these days. The first time and vaginal intercourse in general, were not, and are not the be-all-and-end-all of being sexually active, even though I like vaginal intercourse a lot.

I’ve realised that for me, there are many first times, all the time, when being sexually active: - Not just with new partners, but also in my sex life with a long-term partner.
- And I don’t mean just first times, as in first time doing thing we’ve never done before. – It’s more a realising our sex life has changes, is even more personal and intimate or whatever else. – It’s a bit hard to describe.
My sexuality has changed as I’ve grown and learned and learned to really evaluate my needs and desires, and my sex life with my partner hence changes, too. It’s not that it’s a steady moving-to-new-heights for us, or reaching any definite goals. – My sexuality with a partner is a fluid, changing thing, with better times, and worse time, and I feel that now, I can finally enjoy it as it happens and take it that way, without having to put labels on everything, all the time.

Having been here at the boards for the last few years, I’ve realised that in my opinion, it would be better if we collectively said goodbye to the concept of virginity and instead embraced readiness instead. Not only is virginity heterosexist and non-inclusive, and degrading in that it labels people according to a tiny aspect of their experiences: above all, too often people come here and seem to confuse virginity with safety and protection from pregnancy, STDs and emotional pain.
There’s so much misinformation out there, and virginity seems to stand in the way of real, open, honest education:

“I can’t have an STD, I’m a virgin.” “My hymen is intact, so I can’t get pregnant, right?” “He was only in for three seconds, it hence doesn’t count, does it?”
The latter always makes me wonder: count towards who? Isn’t virginity, if you choose that as a definition for yourself, something that should matter to you, and you alone? Is there anyone else one needs to be accountable to? Some virginity regulation authority where you have to register your non-virginity and then are forever stamped “non virgin”? If there’s this regulation authority, someone please give me their contact details. I need to protest in front of their door.

So: this is my opinion. What’s yours?

------------------
Caro
~Scarleteen Sexpert~

Spike: Well, I'm not good and I'm okay.


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raweggonrice
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My views of virginity have changed so much over the years, and I'm kind of undecided at this current moment. I think, honestly, in an ideal world the word "virgin" would only apply to people who'd never had orgasms, and we'd simply call people who'd never had sex "a person who has never had sex". It seems like a silly word to apply to a person to begin with, because not having or having the rather simple (and oft silly) experience of having penis to vagina penetration (the traditional definition) doesn't change anything about you at all. Even the age old idea of it breaking a girl's hymen doesn't apply all the time either, and obviously males have no hymen equivalent to physically deciper their virgin vs. non-virginhood. I know there are many people out there who identify very strongly with the fact that they are or aren't virgins, but what IS so important about that? Aside from telling a new partner your sexual history for the sake of sexual health, it doesn't change your thoughts or opinions or moral character. My final issue with the idea of "virginity" is that a woman whose first experience of penetration is unconsensual is technically not a virgin, which to me seems pretty ridiculous. Rape and sex are two very different things; the only things they have in common are the body parts involved. Are eating and talking considered the same thing because they both use your mouth? Certainly not.
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logic_grrl
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quote:
in an ideal world the word "virgin" would only apply to people who'd never had orgasms

I'm curious - why would you want to apply the word "virgin" to people who've never had orgasms? What about people who have active sex lives, but are pre-orgasmic? Or people who are incapable of ever reaching physical orgasm due to neurological problems?

Wouldn't it be simpler to avoid importing all the conceptual mess attached to the whole "virginity" idea and just call people who've never had orgasms "people who've never had orgasms"?


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raweggonrice
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by logic_grrl:
[B] I'm curious - why would you want to apply the word "virgin" to people who've never had orgasms?

I simply said that with the idea that we would probably still have the word "virgin" in our vocabulary. In general, it seems like a silly word to begin with, but I was merely recognizing that it's not leaving anytime soon.

I do think, however, that the one thing about sexual activity (with yourself or another) that could have any real potential affect on you is whether you have sexual pleasure or not, which is why I put that definition down as the "ideal" one for the word. I'm probably biased though; the fact that I've masturbated for as long as I can remember has had, I think, an enormous and positive affect on me, and on the sexual relations with other people that I had later. There's probably people in the world who don't apply that much import to their orgasms, however, which underscores your point that we should all just be "had-" or "not-had-orgasm-ers".


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DarkChild717
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Virignity has never been an issue to me. It was never questioned or discussed. It was always firsts of any sexual act. It was never defined.

As for me, I was fifteen when I first kissed anyone and the first time I gave and received oral sex.

I was 17 when I first experience penis-in-vagina intercourse.

In my current relationship, my partner does not like receiving oral sex, but is more than willing to give or receive pleasure in other ways. And we communicate quite often, which is good. Especially since I am always reminding him that orgasm is not the goal--I can't orgasm with him. I may someday, but I am so used to my own body. But we're working on it .


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The1andonlyAmber
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The first time I had sex, I didn't feel conected in anyway. In my opinion there's more than just sex.
There is (to me) a difference between having sex and making love for example.

I would say I lost my virginity to my current Boyfriend to whom I feel connected and loved. It was more than sex, I lost myself when I was with him, I felt consumed and felt... I don't know what.
But thats my veiw!


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DiamondGirl2K
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Hi Scarleteeners,
My definition of virginity is vaginal intercourse with the person you care deeply about. Everybody defines it differently so more power to you!

I just gave my virginity with my boyfriend for the very first time this past Saturday May 10, 2003. I say gave because we love and care about each other very much. We've been together for 1 year and 7 months (19 months as I like to say it.) It was a great experience for the both of us. It wasn't as earth shattering as I wanted and I didn't see stars or anything of the sort. But it was great because it was with the person I love and would give the world to.
After we were finished and dressed, we held each other and talked about what we felt and why. We got all mushy with the I Love You's and everthing. I feel great that it was with him and I wouldn't take it back for anything in the world. He means a lot to me and I value our relationsip a lot more and then some!

------------------
DiamondGirl
-N-
Boogie Black
'2003'
9~27~01
@<<-----
Still Going Strong!
Forever and Always!

[This message has been edited by DiamondGirl2K (edited 05-12-2003).]

[This message has been edited by DiamondGirl2K (edited 05-12-2003).]


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logic_grrl
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quote:
My definition of virginity is vaginal intercourse with the person you care deeply about.

Just a reminder of what this thread is about - remember, I asked people why they define loss of virginity the way they do (if they think it's a meaningful concept at all).

So how about posting a bit about why that's your personal definition of "loss of virginity"?

What about activities other than penis-in-vagina intercourse, or outside a romantic relationship? Do they "not count" for you?

Of course different people define concepts like this differently. But I'm asking people to maybe think and post a bit about the reasons why they feel the way they do.


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DiamondGirl2K
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The reason why I define "loss of virginity" that way is because of my religion. I'm Christian and we believe that when you have vaginal sex with the person you care about, you have gave your virginity to that person. It's very meaningful to me because I completely agree with that and even when I didn't fully understand the whole religion bit,I always thought of it that way.
Other sexual activities do count but not in a sense that you're actually giving something up. I've always thought that intercourse was special because that's how other people come into the world not by oral sex or other sexual activity. It might be kind of confusing but it's kind of hard to explain.
When I said more power to you....I really meant it in a sense that it's good to have your own opinions and not go by what other people say. I didn't mean it to sound snarky or anything. So please don't take it that way. I love this site and all you guys are great people. Thanks a lot!!!

------------------
*~DiamondGirl~*
*~Boogie Black~*
9~27~01
@<<-----
Still Going Strong!
Forever and Always!


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PrettyGirlSuffering
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My definiton of a "virgin" or "virginity" is what I *assume* most people would, "Penis-in-vagina-intercourse."
I regret losing my virginity, I suppose at the time (I was 16), that I was just curious about what it felt like, everything else. I now realize that I DO feel like I 'lost' something that can never be regained. It's like my first kiss sucked, and it was with someone I didn't even really like. Then I vowed I'd love the person I "lost my virginity" to, and that went down the potty too.

I have a question for any & everyone. Do you believe in, or have you ever done the "born-again-virgin" thing? Which as I've simply had it explained to me... You don't have sex for a year from the last time you had intercourse, when that date passes, you're a born-again-virgin.

I guess I kind of believe in it in a mental state kind of thing. I don't want to have sex until I feel like I truly and honestly want to open myself up like that to someone. I know it doesn't change the fact that I have indeed had sex before. I just wanted to know what people's opinions and views are on that topic.

------------------
.a.m.a.n.d.a.

-=No one can make you feel inferior without your consent=-Eleanor Roosevelt


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DiamondGirl2K
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quote:
Originally posted by PrettyGirlSuffering:
I have a question for any & everyone. Do you believe in, or have you ever done the "born-again-virgin" thing? Which as I've simply had it explained to me... You don't have sex for a year from the last time you had intercourse, when that date passes, you're a born-again-virgin.

I guess I kind of believe in it in a mental state kind of thing.


I believe in the born again virgin concept but I've never heard you don't have sex for a year part. I think it means that a person who has had intercourse decides that they won't have sex until they've found the right person whether it be 6 months or 2 years later. This is becase some people who have sexual intercourse realize that it was the wrong time and decide to hold off until they are sure they are ready. It is a mental state of thing as I've always thought because no one can define who you are.
Before I had intercourse with my current boyfriend, I tried to have it wth my ex-boyfriend a few years earlier and it didn't work out because it hurt so much. He only penetrated me about 1-2 inch before I had to stop him. I bled a little bit and I felt so horrible about it because I realized that I wasn't ready. I don't regret it though because that incident helped me realize to take more caution in who I decide to have intercourse with. There's a lesson to be learned with every action a person takes and that's one of te greatest lessons I ever learned!

------------------
*~DiamondGirl~*
*~Boogie Black~*
9~27~01
@<<-----
Still Going Strong!
Forever and Always!


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logic_grrl
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quote:
Other sexual activities do count but not in a sense that you're actually giving something up.

So what is it that you feel you're "giving up" when you have intercourse?

quote:
My definiton of a "virgin" or "virginity" is what I *assume* most people would,"Penis-in-vagina-intercourse."

Question for the various people who've defined "loss of virginity" as "penis-in-vagina intercourse": where does that leave gay and lesbian people who've never had opposite-sex partners?

If a man has had hundreds of male partners, or a woman hundreds of female partners, but never an opposite-sex partner, would you consider them to be "virgins"?

I'm not trying to attack anyone's personal definitions, but I'd like to see if we can get some discussion going here.


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Heather
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Out of my own curiousity, I'd also ask those who are adopting/have adopted/support the "born-again-virgin" idea what exactly you feel that would net you?

And what it is about the concept of virginity, in this sense, you feel is valuable to you?

In other words, what is the difference between being a "born-again-virgin" and instead simply saying, "Well, that wasn't what I wanted/needed with that partner, let's wait for a different partner and bear in mind what I know I need to make sex more enriching for me."

------------------
Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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MarvellousPurple
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I'm neither a virgin nor a born-again-virgin, but I thought i'd reply to the thread anyway :-)

I've actually been thinking about it a lot of late, and it occurred to me that I may as well have lost my virginity the first time I went any further (sexually) with someone than kissing them. I felt a lot more changed and... well, sexual and un-virgin-like (am I making sense?) the first time my partner fondled my breast through my sweatshirt than the first time we had penis-in-vagina intercourse. For that matter, I was a whole lot more nervous and unprepared for my first kiss (when I was twelve) than for my first sexual experiences (when i was 17).

I think this is mostly because, in my mind, sex=love and that is all there is to it. I'm not saying that this is true for everyone, but just for me. I personally can't conceive of being sexual (at all!) with someone for whom i didn't feel pretty strongly. To me, there's just as much emotional investment in oral sex or dry humping as there is in intercourse.

I'm also not saying that there was one specific point at which I went "Whabam! Well, there went my virginity." If I had to talk about "losing virginity", it would be more of a gradual process that's still going on. However, I'd rather talk about it in terms of becoming a more fully sexual person, becoming comfier with myself (and others) sexually, maturing in terms of knowing what I need... all that good stuff.

This is all a pretty new revelation to me; since I grew up in a culture (Virginia :-) where sex = penis-in-vagina intercourse, and that defines virginity, I still definitely have that idea engrained in the back of my head somewhere. but i'm getting over it.

------------------
I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
Than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance.
(e. e. cummings)


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firecracker
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thank you for bringing up this subject. it was very thought provoking for me.

i don't think there is one set definition for virginity. i, myself, don't really have a set definition for it. i'm with someone now who i see myself having intercourse with in the future, and when i do i'm sure i'll mark that as the day i "lost my virginity". i think that's mainly because it would be a big step for us. it'd be the first time either of us has had intercouse and it would be introducing a world of responsibility into our lives. i also know it would also be very important to both of us, because we love and respect each other very much.

but that doesn't mean penis-in-vagina intercourse is the only way to lose one's virginity. i'll look at it that way for me, because i am female and my partner is male. but if my partner were female, i'd probably look at a very significant sexual moment between us as "losing my virginity".

i guess that takes away from what other forms of sex could mean. i've had a few very beautiful sexual moments with my boyfriend, despite the fact that we've never had intercourse.

it's a confusing subject. i'm pretty much open to any ideas on it.

------------------
“A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest - a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security.”
- Albert Einstein


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sublime_15
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I gave my virginity at 1:17 today to my boyfriend of almost 7 months. I equate virginity with penis and vagina sex. It was awesome, it didnt hurt was a little uncomfortable but i like it.
He ejaculated as we were chaning positions and he was apologizing and i was like its alright so we laughed for like 20min straight, we just sat there laughing and kissing.

The only things I regret was that i wasnt on BC pills like i was planning on doing this friday. and that I'm still 14, I wanted to wait till i was 15 (monday) Cus to me it sounds alot better when someone asks you what age did you first have sex. I also was kinda dissapointed in myself because i think the only reason we did it today was because it was our first time alone in a house together and it was the perfect oppurtuinty. Also he had to leave quickly because of baseball practice so we didnt really have alot of time to talk about it.

I'm super worried that i'll want to do it all the time, and that could make it lose its specialness


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pix
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personally, i define loss of virginity as having penis-in-vagina intercourse, although i don't really see virginity (after having practiced other sexual activities) as something that seems like a big deal.

it seems kinda weird to me now that so much hype surrounds the first time. but i guess again that it is like anything else... tying a shoe, first steps, first word, etc. the first is always new and different and something to experience.

before i started to become sexually active (not intercourse) i thought of virginity as something that was going to be mine, stay mine, for a long time, even if i did think i was ready. then after practicing othe sexual activities, virginity didn't start to feel like such a big deal. almost like subconsiously i felt i had already lost it.

to this day i would consider myself a virgin. since the definition i grew accustomed to as i grew up was having penis-in-vagina intercourse for the first time.

i think that other activities do "count", but i suppose because of my up bringing that they don't seem to hold the same meaning as intercourse.


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badly_behaved_badger
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Me? I don't use the word virginity if I can help it. I'm probably a minority here, but I don't believe virginity (in the traditional sense) exists. Apart from the fact that it excludes gays and lesbians, I hear people talking about losing their virginity as if they had lost a limb. I don't want to feel as if I've lost anything when decide to be sexually active with anyone.

I also hear a lot of girls and women saying that they have *given* their virginity to their partner. I didn't really follow this until I read 'Magical Cups & Bloody Brides' IMHO, it sounds like girls are not expected to ever own or be in control of their own sexuality. That is another reason why I don't believe in traditional virginity because in male-female relationships, it seems like the female is supposed to 'give' and the male is the one 'taking'. Perhaps I would be happier to accept virginity if two people could share it (2 people being male-male, female-female, or female-male!) So nobody would be excluded.

I see 'virginity' as something that can be lost over time by just becoming a sexual being and exploring your own sexuality whether it's with a partner of the opposite sex, same sex, or just on your own!

*badger*

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~Men of quality are not threatened by women's equality~


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momomo
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I used to think that sex was just penis-in-vagina and the first time you did that was when you lost your virginity. But now, I don't even know why people put so much stock into "virginity." The word is so hard to define that it doesn't seem worth it. for example, according to different people I could have lost my virginity when I was 11, when I was 13, when I was 14, 15, or 16. those were all large steps in my sexual and romantic life that could have possibly been considered by someone the day I lost my virginity. so why try to define it? why does it matter? they were all firsts and they were special, it was special when I first gave my heart away right up until I first experienced penis-in-vagina intercourse with my current boyfriend and every time after that. so why say one moment was more special than another?
i hope i didn't offend anyone, these are just my points of view and i totally respect everyone elses too!

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DarlingBri
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Can I ask a question of everyone here who is defining "virginity" as penis-in-vagina intercourse?

What if you're a couple with two penises? Or two vaginas?

It just seems silly to me that I could, say, spend my whole life with a partner (or partners) of the same gender, having oral sex, manual sex, anal sex, and every kind of sex except PIV intercourse -- and yet still die a "virgin."

So, if PIV intercourse is the "standard" for loss of virginity in male/female couples, what is the "standard" for loss of virginity in same-sex couples?

I'd be really interested to see what you all think about that. Thanks!

--Bri


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logic_grrl
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And if you have different standards for heterosexual and homosexual couples, how does that work?

I mean, if a girl has oral sex, does that mean she's "lost her virginity" if she's a lesbian, but not if she's straight? And what if she's bisexual?


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janna_janna
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I really liked what firecracker said, "...but if my partner were female, i'd probably look at a very significant sexual moment between us as "losing my virginity."
After reading through these threads and several articles on the subject, I am beginning to change my mind about what I considered being a virgin, atleast for me, and I think I might go ask my boyfriend (who I've had all my sexual experiences with) what 'first' did he think was most significant, or if there was an event he found that significant that it could be called us 'losing our virginity,' since I would want to make sure whatever date we named to be a shared one. By my old (well, still current but being reconsidered) standards, I'm still a virgin, because we haven't had penis-vagina intercouse, but I never considered that to be the only way to lose ones virginity, just mine. I regarded losing virginity as having a first sexual experience where both partners are not only being pleasured, but pleasuring their partner at the same time, it's a completely (or atleast near completely) mutual experience and even a kind of spiritual experience, different from oral or manual sex, where although the partner performing the act may certainly get aroused or excited, they probably aren't (atleast not in my experience) 'getting off' like the other partner.
But now I'm beginning to rethink the entire concept of virginity. I am leaning towards saying that my first definitively sexual act that was followed through completely (not just some finger exploration like had happened before, this was a much different process) with another person (which happened May 23, 2003, I remembered the date! I'm so proud of myself) would mark the date of my losing my virginity. After all, many views on virginity state that a virgin is still pure, completely sexually inactive, of which I'm really not. Getting to third base for the first time is a big step not only the first time, but in the relationship, and even if one doesn't consider it losing their virginity, they should still remember it as some sort of milestone in a relationship.

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shine
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I've never really thought of myself in terms of virginity. Virginity was always something my grandmother talked about, and I've never put much stock in what she says. A large portion of my family are "Get married in white, a virgin until your wedding night, the GLBT community doesn't exist, and it's okay if we call your cousin's fiancé a 'jap' " type of people. We, uh, don't exactly get along.

But because my parents are so open, they told me that if virginity were anythign that it was a person's "first significant sexual experience." A pretty loose term, they basically gave me the freedom to define my own "loss of virginity" as however I wished to define it.
But then I would talk to girls who told me that loss of virginity=vaginal intercourse, and that was that. Which confused me - I've been sexually active from a fairly young age, but I didn't even know whether or not I would ever lose my virginity in that traditional sense. And yet, by other definitions I certainly had, because definitely felt that some of my experiences would be considered "significant."

So, I simply decided to stop thinking of myself in terms of virginity, because it just didn't fit me. It's no longer a word that I apply to myself in any context besides the fact that no, I don't consider myself a virgin, and I doubt anyone else would either.

I've always felt shocked that even the most open-minded people I know consider virginity to be vaginal intercourse and completely disregard gay and lesbian people who have never had partners outside of their own gender. It doesn't even cross people's minds that other kinds of sex could constitute a loss of virginity as well. Because when it comes down to it, a person's definition simply applies to their own virginity, if they choose to think of themselves that way.

So who knows when I "lost my virginity." It rarely comes up, but when asked I simply say that I've been sexually active for a while, but I certainly don't feel like I've lost anything.

[This message has been edited by shine (edited 07-27-2003).]


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Breezy119
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If you were to of asked me yesterday what I considered losing my virginity was, I would have said vaginal intercourse, even if you were just barely penetrated. Its just what Ive always been told, so I agreed with it. Until today.

My boyfriend and I were messing around some and just a little of him was inside me. If anyone else told me this had happened to them, I'd tell them they'd lost their virginity. But I don't feel like I have. It wasn't full penetration, and although I feel a little different, I don't feel as if I've lost my virginity. I feel a lot closer to my boyfriend.

When we DO have our first time, it will be intimate and we'll take our time and all that good stuff, and when I feel like I have completely given myself to him, then I'll have lost my virginity.

I guess if I were to get technical, then yes, I am no longer a virgin. But I think for me, or for anyone else for that matter, I don't really consider it losing your virginity until you feel like you've lost something or that you have really given yourself to someone. If that makes any sense


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logic_grrl
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I really hope that that "little bit of him" was clad in a condom. If not, then you have a potential pregnancy and STD risk.

It's worth remembering that even if you don't feel something really "counts" as sex, it can still carry risks!


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Breezy119
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Yes, we both realize that, and we didn't use a condom, but he didn't cum, and it was only for maybe 30 seconds. I realize there are STILL risks, but he pre-came before we started and I'm not very worried. We do plan to use condoms in the future, we just got a little carried away.
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logic_grrl
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"Pre-cum" isn't something that's produced once and then goes away - generally, it's going to be present any time a guy's aroused. And it can contain sperm.

So whether you're worried or not, you do have a risk. People can and do get pregnant (or get STDs) from penetration that only lasts 30 seconds.


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ayeayeaye
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quote:
Originally posted by logic_grrl:
The thread at http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/Forum2/HTML/002316.html was becoming pretty long.

It was also in danger of turning into a list of people giving an age and stating (or assuming) that "losing virginity" equals having penis-in-vagina intercourse for the first time.

That's not terrifically illuminating , and it runs the risk of excluding a fair number of people (gay and lesbian users of the board, for example).

So I'd like to suggest some questions for people to think about:

Why do you define "loss of virginity" in the way you do (whatever way that is)? If you think it equals having penis-in-vagina intercourse for the first time, why?

And what does that say about other sexual activities? Do they "not count" in some sense? Why?

For some food for thought, I recommend these articles:

Magical Cups & Bloody Brides
Is that all there is? - A memoir of first time sex 17 years in themaking
What IS sex, anyway?

[This message has been edited by logic_grrl (edited 04-06-2003).]



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momomo
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Wow. I just read the reply I posted in here almost a year ago. I definately have changed my views a lot since then considering I recently realized that what I felt for my last two boyfriends (both of which I had P-I-V intercourse with) was lust rather than anything else. I also realized I had P-I-V intercourse with them for all the wrong reasons and I don't feel like it is fair to say I "lost" my virginity because 1) I know exactly where it is and 2)I don't know that I define virginity by P=I-V intercourse anymore. I kind of feel like I haven't experienced that fairytale perfect mix of mental and physical pleasure, you know? I doubt this makes any sense but I'm super confused right now!
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nico
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I don't know, I've never put a lot of emphasis on staying a virgin like some friends of mine, probably due to the fact that I'm an atheist and not influenced by religion, as well as my mother being generally accepting of sexuality. She's not the type to say "No! not until you're married" it was more like "okay, but use a condom and probably go on the pill when you reach that stage." I'm really happy I was raised like that. My mom never placed shame on sex or body parts, and I love that.

But the definition of a virgin, well, that I'm not sure about. I guess the one that's used where I live is someone who has not had any sexual experience, regardless of orientation.

I mean, I was raped before I actually decided to have sex, but it was never an issue to me that I was "robbed of my virginity", so to speak. I've always thought of it as something more spiritual, you know? Like when I became a fully sexual being, I kind of left the virgin behind.

But that inference bothers me. What's a fully sexual being? I guess I would say personally that it means I became responsible and aware of my own sexuality, that I was actively engaged in the mental and emotional part of sex.

hey, I tried. sorry if it's not understandable.


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SunshineLK0517
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i believe "losing your virginity" is when you have penis-vagina intercourse. this has always been my belief
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logic_grrl
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Sunshine, maybe you could look at the original post in this thread.

The question I asked is why that's your belief.


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Slick
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Loss of virginity=anything past making out. (Yes, oral sex included)
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logic_grrl
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And, again, why?

OK, Slick, that's your definition. Fine. Why do you feel that way?

[This message has been edited by logic_grrl (edited 06-15-2004).]


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