Or, most likely, both. I had a topic called "Well, I'm pretty much out of ideas— as you can no doubt see." on the Body and Soul board that lasted for a while, but now it seems to be gone. Then again, I have a reputation for not being able to find anything. Then again, the recent-posts listing in my profile is empty, and I did post in that topic just three or four days ago. Assuming my thread was deleted, could someone please say why?
I know there was some debate among the moderators about whether the discussion there ought to be allowed to continue, but I thought they'd just recently decided to leave it as-is. (Er, "as-was".) In that light, it seems odd that now, of all times, the topic was deleted. Certainly my last post there was hardly different from the ones I'd written before, so I can't see how the deletion was in response to my behavior.
Posts: 14 | From: Manhattan | Registered: Jun 2007
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Yep, that thread's been closed and deleted. We actually left it up a couple of days after closing to make sure you'd see what was going on. Apparently we took it down too soon.
I'll copy/paste what Heather wrote for ya: "Obviously -- well, it seems pretty obvious to me, anyway -- this whole discussion seems to have outlived its usefulness to anyone. So, I think it's time we just put this to bed, as it were.
One thing I'll leave you with, Sisyphus, that's struck me from the start of this discussion, and which I think may benefit you, is this:
From the start, I've been reminded quite strongly of the fact that one very common theme in the near-ten years I've been advising people on their sex lives are people having issues which are the opposite of your concern, or rather, which really show quite pointedly that the concern you have is likely, if not off-base, just less of an issue than you imagine it to be. And that is this: one very big barrier for people of all ages with sexual enjoyment is how much of a challenge many people have, quite often, is shutting their rational minds OFF during sex.
In other words, a whole lot of people very much WANT to turn that off so they can have the mini-vacation sexual activity can provide, but will be right there, in the thick of sexual activity, and their worries about their bodies, their taxes, their relationship, if they remembered to turn the coffeepot off, if their birth control is really working, if they'll get an STI, if their partner is enjoying themselves, that awful thing on the news earlier, what have you, often intrude. Would that the rational mind really DID shut itself all the way off, but for the vast majority of people -- if not all people -- that is more often an incredibly challenging thing to accomplish: at best, when we can, it's pretty momentary.
Regardless, as I first said to you above, if, for you, you feel or imagine that sex IS something where the whole of your rational mind does a total shutdown and you don't want that, that's a pretty easy choice, whether you execute that by just deciding to be celibate -- which is a completely okay thing to do if that's what you want -- or just by letting your mind do what it's doing right now during sex. But to be frank, reading the whole of this thread, it really seems to me that you've got a pretty active, if not overactive, mind, and that if folks who WANT to turn their off often can't, yours -- particularly -- going somewhere else when you do NOT want that seems mighty unlikely."
Hope that explains what happened to your thread.
[ 07-05-2007, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: September ]
-------------------- Johanna Scarleteen Volunteer
"The question is not who will let me, but who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand Posts: 9192 | From: Cologne, Germany | Registered: Sep 2005
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Yeah, it does. It really does. Thank you, September.
In response to Heather's post… what can I say? Well, I could say a lot, but given that few people here are willing to read more than a few thousand words at a time, and that I'm probably straining (if not exceeding) the limits of good manners by responding at all when I've received every indication that everyone has had just about enough of me and my long sentences, I'll be brief. Relatively speaking.
First of all, there is, of course, the same old problem of the straw-man argument. I've never said nor believed that sexual activity prevents you from thinking. For one thing, the idea is that sexuality, not just sexual activity, is the problem; for another, it's not that sexuality prevents rational thought, it hinders it. There's a big difference. You could, of course, read my essay, so that you'd know what my argument actually is and thus be able to respond to it coherently, but I see that's too much to ask.
Second, your own point about how it's difficult to keep the mind from wandering is the very reason sexuality bothers me so. Just as it can be difficult to keep from thinking about taxes while having sex (I wouldn't know; I'm just taking your word for it), it can be difficult to keep from thinking about sex while filing taxes. If I had no compulsion to think of things sexual— if I could control my thoughts perfectly, that I could completely ignore what I didn't like— I'd have nothing to complain about.
(An overactive mind. I'm not sure whether you'd consider that a compliment, but I do. Thank you.)
Finally, and most importantly, if just worrying about taxes and birth control and "that awful thing on the news earlier", as opposed to sitting down and seriously, soberly considering them, is your and many other people's ideas of rational thought, I can see why my attempt at having a rational debate failed so miserably. There are few activities I know of for which the exercise of rational thought it so necessary as argument. That doesn't stop some people from arguing without thinking rationally about what's being said, but, needless to say, such behavior has a way of making the debate at hand anything but rational.
Posts: 14 | From: Manhattan | Registered: Jun 2007
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Sisyphus, your thread was closed because you were being rude/snide to our volunteers, and because you persisted in using pejorative terms like "savages" to describe peoples who do not meet your personal view of "civilization." I made it clear to you when I re-opened your thread that this sort of thing was unacceptable here at Scarleteen-- it's not open to debate becuase here we are respectful towards all cultures.
Moreover, as Heather stated, the debate was going nowhere. You accuse us of constructing a "straw man" argument, because you never insisted that sexuality prevents rational thought, yet your thesis was that sexuality is the antithesis of rational thought-- highly inconsistent. You were presented with a number of arguments as to why this would not be the case-- that we have numerous conflicts between desires at different times, and these do not indicate that those conflicting desires are antithetical (indeed, conflict can often occur between two "rational" desires), and it was also suggested to you that art can be used to bridge any perceived gap between the physical and rational. However, you continued insisting that sex is a special category so far as rational thought is concerned, which leads us to the conclusion that you are not going to change your beliefs because you don't want to change your beliefs. That is fine; we have no desire to make you be sexual if you don't want to be.
A number of us here have been having arguments online since your age was in single digits boyo, and we can spot when a discussion is going nowhere, even if your own powers of discernment are not yet so well refined. Given that all of us do have lives outside of Scarleteen (some of us are even involved in writing real theses), and that we want our time here to be spent helping people, it did not seem appropriate to continue this discussion. If you do feel the need to argue the point, might I suggest that it might be more appropriate in a forum dedicated to philosophy, [ http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/index.php ]where you can discuss the issue with people who have spent years pondering the relationship between the physical body and the mind.
I also suggest that you do your own reading on the matter, seeking out a variety of opinions, rather than simply looking to have your own confirmed.
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