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Author Topic: Still Confused
Rakko
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Hello, I know this has been posted about a bazillion times before, but I would like a clearer discussion about such confusion.

I'm an 18 year old male, and for the past 4 years of my life had considered myself gay because I liked gay porn, and looking at certain guys, as well as fantasizing about other men often. Then all of a sudden about 3 months ago I started actually looking for a boyfriend and realized that I found none of the guys around me attractive. I found that I much preferred the facial features of a female, but still prefer the bodies of males. To make things worse I realized that for quite a few years I have wanted a straight relationship like the ones you see in movies and that I wasn't looking at gay relationships in terms of just relationships at all.

Now, I think I'm bi or even straight (though I hate labels, especially "bi"). I mean I still look at gay porn but don't find males attractive for the most part. I fantasize often about actual romantic relationships with another guy (like snuggling and kissing etc.) and hardly fantasize at all about women. I know that your common reply to fantasies is that they might not always represent what we really want in real life, but I feel like these fantasies are true for me.

I've had straight relationships before, but I've never really connected with them. I've never had a gay relationship though as I've never come out as anything and no guy knows I'm available. So, I'm not sure if what I need is to find a guy that I love to see if it's actually what I want out of a relationship, and if I can have the same thing in a gay relationship as I think I could in a straight one. I just don't want to hurt anyone in the process which seems unavoidable if I discover I actually don't like gay relationships.

Another strange thing is that I am interested in being the female gender role in a relationship, but that's not too important in my opinion.

All your ideas/advice/opinions are welcome, this is purely just to provoke more ideas in my head that could eventually help me form who I am, and to aid everyone else who is going through the same thing.

I will most likely add more details later in the post as they come up or if anyone requests more.

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-Rakko

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tsinquirer
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Well, I can give you my opinion, though Im sure there will be many varying opinions.

When it comes to porn, Im debateable. Though watching it was pleasurable, I fell like it dulled down reality. Like nothing I had sexually was comparable to what I fantasized about...so I stopped watching it. And now I feel as if I gain more pleasure from my own sexual situations than before.

I hate labels too since I am attracted to both sexes. But in your case, I honestly think it sounds like you are gay, you have just been dissapointed by your surroundings, as if they do not compare to what you want.

You say you dont connect in straight realtionships? Is it the fact that you dont connect to females, or is it just the people you have been with that you dont connect to? The person makes all the difference.

I do believe that you need to experience a gay realtionship with a guy that you have bonded with to see if you find what you're looking for.

People get hurt all the time...you have to do what's best for you sometimes. Just be sincere.

Sorry if I didnt help. I wanst sure what angle to look at this from.

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TsInQuIrEr

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Rakko
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Hey, thanks for the reply...was starting to think I've fallen on deaf ears there for a few days.

I agree that porn shouldn't be something to compare actual sexual situations as it's just not realistic. Although I think it does kind of shed light onto one's primal sexual attractions, upon which we can build on however we choose.
quote:
Originally posted by tsinquirer:
I hate labels too since I am attracted to both sexes. But in your case, I honestly think it sounds like you are gay, you have just been dissapointed by your surroundings, as if they do not compare to what you want.

When I read that I was pretty amazed I never thought about that. I suppose it does seem as though my surroundings don't compare to what I want. I'm just not sure whether or not that it's reason enough to be straight (because it seems everything around me is telling me to be straight).

As for connecting in straight relationships...all three times it's been the person that I haven't connected to. Problem is that it seems like 80% of females I come across are the same way. Though I haven't had a straight relationship in about 3 years (yes, I had a straight relationship in the time when I was under the idea I was 100% gay) so I'm not sure how different things would be.

As for experiencing a gay relationship, the closest I've come to another male in terms of relationships is a long distance relationship which I'm currently still in. But, unfortunately with the distance between us it doesn't offer much to solidify my attraction to other males and only allows me to come to the conclusion I'm capable of loving another male in that sense.

Since I posted this topic, my views have changed somewhat although I am still between orientations (leaning more and more towards gay at the moment). But I think I'm okay with that for the most part, I've learned to accept that its best to let these things kind of unfold by themselves and refrain from pushing myself too much in one direction or the other because doing such will give me what I want right now, but maybe not what I want in the future.

Thanks again for your opinion! I'm not even sure what angle to look at this from myself.

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-Rakko

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tsinquirer
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Your welcome, and thank you.

Something in your last post has shed light on something in my life:

"But I think I'm okay with that for the most part, I've learned to accept that its best to let these things kind of unfold by themselves and refrain from pushing myself too much in one direction or the other because doing such will give me what I want right now, but maybe not what I want in the future. "

Thats amazing and insightful.

Thank you!

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TsInQuIrEr

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Rakko
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Your very welcome, I'm glad my words can have such an effect on others. I've spent a lot of time the past couple of months contemplating relationships, love and personal identity. I just hope I'll be able to come to some conclusion about who I am soon.

I used to think that maybe I'm not meant to experience love with another male (no matter how much I want it). Now it just seems that I'm not capable of loving another human being (male or female) at this stage of my life. But, if I don't at least try to love another guy, it feels I'd be giving up on being gay too soon. Like I'm afraid of being afraid of being gay.

It feels like the only way I'll be able to make a definite conclusion about myself is if I experience a local gay relationship. But even if it turns out I don't like it, I'm not even sure if I would be able to call myself anything straighter than "bisexual" as it seems being gay has woven itself so tightly into my being that it seems strange calling myself straight (from the 4 years I've referred to myself as 100% gay). I'm not sure what that means, maybe I've been living a lie and am too afraid to accept being straight I'm not sure.

That leads to this next paragraph: Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could show other gay males that I'm interested...while still remaining in the closet to everyone else? Preferably a way that doesn't involve me going up to a guy or going to a friend (though I have put some thought into telling a friend of mine who is a girl that I'm bisexual and ask her if she knows anyone who might be interested)? To at least make an attempt at a local gay relationship.

I'm sorry if this post is confusing or seems to jump around a lot...I guess that's just my thought process on the subject, jumbled and confused.

Again, thanks tsinquirer for your opinions they are much appreciated. :3

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-Rakko

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Rakko
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Alright, just thought I'd ask a question to anyone who happens to be reading this. You know how there's that time in your life when you begin to question your heterosexuality and wonder whether your homosexual or not...then you usually come to the conclusion of either one later on. Well, I'm curious if to anyone here has ever began to question their homosexuality and wondering if they actually are heterosexual? Essentially the opposite of the first. But, I never really hear about anyone experiencing this.

The reason I ask is because I think that I am kind of questioning my homosexuality (or what used to be my homosexuality). But, I don't really want to be heterosexual anymore since being gay has just kind of become what I've identified myself as (but at the same time, I don't think that not wanting to be heterosexual is a good enough reason to be/stay homosexual). It's like going from being straight to gay, but the other way around...and with the same amount of resistance. Or maybe it's all just a phase in my changing sexual identity that's meant to solidify my homosexuality by making me question it. Does this makes sense to anyone?

To make things worse, the more I think about females the more physically attractive they become to me. But, I've also noticed that I'm becoming more physically attracted to males as well. I'm just not sure what this means, because it doesn't help me determine which gender I'd like to spend my future with. Maybe I'm just looking too far ahead, and should focus on the present and just attempt relationships as they come up.

Any ideas/comments will be greatly appreciated...

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-Rakko

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Heather
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Rakko: I'll try and get to this sometime tomorrow if no one else does.

But I just wanted to make clear you were bearing in mind that a) heterosexual and homosexual aren't the only sexual orientations out there, there's a HUGE spectrum between those two poles and b) not everyone goes though that same process of questioning. I'd say questioning is more common, but some come into their sexuality with a clear sense of who they're attracted to (or potentially attracted to, gender-wise), and what they feel their orientation to be. Not everyone comes of age with the idea that they were heterosexual by default. [Smile]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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Rakko: so, up and about, my first question to check in with you about is if you understand that sexual orientation is a big spectrum, not just two poles.

In other words, those of us who experience sexual and emotionally attraction to people of all genders will often identify as pansexual or bisexual, and far more people in the world are someone in the middle of homosexuality or heterosexuality than there are people who are 100% either way.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rakko
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Hey Heather, to answer your question...Yes, I do realize there are many sexual orientations and lately I have been in between the two extremes of said spectrum.

I just for some reason feel like being between them (bisexual, etc.), just doesn't feel right. I guess I've got it in my head that if I'm bisexual, chances are I'll always end up in straight relationships (as they seem to be most common) and spend the rest of my life wondering what gay relationships would be like. I know that's not exactly the reality of the situation, it's just kind of what I've led myself to believe.

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-Rakko

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Heather
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Hmm.

Do you know where you got that idea? Can you recognize it's not accurate for many of us? Heck, for that matter, can you recognize that a bisexual person can't be in "straight" or "homosexual" relationships, anyway? [Smile]

In other words, I'm bisexual, so I've never been either of those things. I can be in a relationship with a woman (who may be gay OR bisexual) or a relationship with a man (who may be straight OR bisexual) or in a relationship with someone who doesn't identify as either of those genders, too. Classifying relationships as "gay" or "straight" is only going to make sense if both people in them ID those ways.

[ 01-08-2010, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rakko
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Alright, I'm sorry I should have used "same-sex relationships" and "opposite-sex relationships".

I understand what it means to be bisexual (as your example above) and I actually find that the most appealing. How come I have such a hard time actually just identifying myself as bisexual? Or as anything for that matter?

I'm just not sure at which point I become any kind of the above sexual orientations, it's unfortunate there is no clear, solid line dividing them. That they all have to be defined by me as I find where I fit amongst them. Sure there is the basic definitions, but for some reason they don't help. Like I'm apprehensive of being gay because I'm not sure how much I'd like to spend the rest of my life with another male (though again it feels like I'm looking too far into the future). I'm not sure I'm straight as I'm not sexually attracted to females (for the most part). Can I be sexually attracted but not physically attracted to a person? If so, is my sexual identity based on what I'm sexually attracted to as the name suggests? (this excludes emotional attraction since it has the potential to be the same for either sex depending on the person)

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-Rakko

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Heather
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Can you define for me how you differentiate between sexual and physical attraction? I'm not sure I understand the difference, and I want to be sure I don't misunderstand you before I reply further.

Just to be clear, when we're talking about sexual orientation, we mean BOTH sexual and emotional attraction/feelings. Not always the same amounts or kinds of each, but both to some degree.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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One more thing: you might be helped by taking a look at/filling out a Klein grid: http://www.youthnetsouthampton.org.uk/breakout/kleingrid.php

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rakko
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Just want to let you know, that Klein grid is actually really cool. I filled it out twice just to make sure and for fun (my score averages to about 4.2). Though I was confused about what they meant by "Sexual Behaviour: Who are your sexual contacts or partners?" and therefore my score may not be very accurate.

As for the difference between physical and sexual attraction...physical attraction is the perception of the physical traits of an individual human person as aesthetically pleasing or beautiful. Whereas sexual attraction is who turns you on, and whom do you enjoy fantasizing about in erotic daydreams (from the definition in Klein grid). Now, I'd like to point out that I try to avoid basing relationships on physical attraction because that's just shallow in my opinion. Regardless, using the above definitions, I find myself more often physically attracted to females, but more sexually attracted to males. That really doesn't make sense to me though, unless I haven't found what physically attracts me to males?

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-Rakko

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Heather
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It is cool, isn't it? I like it a lot. Kinsey can be useful, but only to a point I find this a much better assessment tool. How did you feel about your results?

When they say sexual behavior, they mean who you have had sexual relationships with.

Okay, so you're not talking about attraction, then, you're talking about aesthetic appreciation. As someone who is also a visual artist, I have aesthetic appreciation for many people to whom I am not sexually or emotionally attracted, and don't find that to be a good gauge of anything, save my aesthetics and a general love of humanity. [Smile]

So, I'd say if that's what you mean, let's not consider that. Let's instead have you consider your sexual -- what groups of people have you found yourself having sexual feeling for, feeling sexually aroused by -- and emotional attraction.

Okay?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rakko
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It's very awesome, and I'm glad you linked me to it :-). I feel the results are accurate, and they make me feel better as they kind of give me a place to start at and build myself around it.

As for sexual behavior, well I'm not sure what I should put for that since it doesn't apply to me (no N/A option was disappointing). So, I'm not sure how much that would effect my results.

Alright, I see what you mean by aesthetic appreciation and I absolutely love visual art as well though I personally wouldn't call myself an artist :-P.

If we are just considering sexual feelings and arousal, as well as emotional attraction I would have to say that it would be males that I'm attracted to. With of course the exception of very few females that I'm attracted to.

So, if this is the conclusion I've come to...how come I still feel unable to identify as homosexual or bisexual?

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-Rakko

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Heather
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For sure, you not having had any sexual relationships is likely a missing piece of the puzzle. That's not to say that if you have one or two, you'll have an answer, or that trying to find that answer is a sound motivation for entering into relationships. However, when you're at a stage in your life when you do start having in-person relationships, some of this may become more clear.

quote:
So, if this is the conclusion I've come to...how come I still feel unable to identify as homosexual or bisexual?
Well, that's the $20,000 question, now isn't it? [Smile] For a lot of people who are questioning.

What do YOU think?

As well, have you considered that "questioning" might be the soundest way for you to identify right now? How does that feel as a fit?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rakko
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I have to agree that not having any sexual relationships as of yet is the missing piece of my puzzle, as I've come to that conclusion when I first started questioning my sexuality. Lately, I'm not even sure if I'm ready for such a relationship being confused as I am, but I also don't want to avoid them if they could mean clarification about my sexual identity.

I'm not sure what this means, but I might as well tell you. For some reason, I'm worried that I'll have a sexual relationship with the opposite gender and I'll like it. I just don't know why I'm so worried about that. Whereas, I'm excited to have a same-sex sexual relationship.

quote:
Originally posted by Heather:
Well, that's the $20,000 question, now isn't it? [Smile] For a lot of people who are questioning.

What do YOU think?

I really don't know at this moment, but I'm guessing that's just something that comes with time.

quote:
As well, have you considered that "questioning" might be the soundest way for you to identify right now? How does that feel as a fit?
Yes, I have considered that "questioning" is the safest way to identify my sexuality (at least I think that's what you are asking). I agree that it is, though 4 months of questioning myself like this is really taking a toll on my mental health. I'm unsure as to what you mean by "How does that feel as a fit?" [Confused]

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-Rakko

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Heather
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Rakko: I have to head to bed, but I'll pop back in the morning to continue this.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Heather
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To be clear, some people identify themselves, and/or to others, as "questioning" rather than as homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual, what have you. When a person knows they are in a place where questioning is where they're at, identifying as questioning is totally valid.

quote:
I'm not sure what this means, but I might as well tell you. For some reason, I'm worried that I'll have a sexual relationship with the opposite gender and I'll like it. I just don't know why I'm so worried about that. Whereas, I'm excited to have a same-sex sexual relationship.
You've said already that you have had opposite gender relationships and you didn't really connect with them, though, right?

What I hear in this statement and some of your others, is that identifying as gay has been something that has felt like a good fit for you for a while, and has felt like a core part of your identity. So, it makes sense you'd feel some fear about if it tuns out this isn't true.

That said, enjoying a relationship with someone of the opposite sex or gender doesn't tell the whole story of our sexual orientation, and just like a certain kind of sex can't "turn someone gay" (I'm sure you've heard that silliness in your travels) even if you did have an opposite-gender relationship you liked, if you're not straight, that couldn't "turn you straight." And to be frank, given your feelings about men are so strong, it seems to me that you being heterosexual seems very unlikely. Bisexual? Maybe. But someone who is heterosexual is pretty much solely or even exclusively attracted to the opposite gender/sex, and I don't hear you expressing that anywhere in here. It seems very clear that most of your attraction is to men.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rakko
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That makes sense to identify as questioning, at least until I've at least made an attempt at more relationships.

Yes, I have had opposite gender relationships. I'm just not sure whether it was because of the person or the gender that I didn't connect with them. Though I'm almost sure it was the person that I didn't connect with, because I can still see a female and have thoughts about having deep relationships with them (though they are never sexual thoughts).

As for identifying as gay for the past couple of years of my life. At this moment, it feels like I've been living a lie all those years and I just don't know why. It's like I realized that being gay is more than what I used to think it was, but even what I used to think it was doesn't fit me now that I've questioned myself so much.

Haha, I always laugh when I hear about that idea of sex turning someone gay. I feel even more sorry for the people who believe it. I also realize that I can't be turned straight in a similar fashion. So, if it seems most of my attraction is towards men, how come I hardly find any of them physically attractive? Yet find many females attractive? I mean I'll find a few guys attractive, but the number of girls I find attractive greatly outnumber them. Have I just not refined my ideas of what I find physically attractive in a guy, and maybe becoming physically/emotionally close to one is what I'd need to help me find out? Like it just seems natural to be with females, but if I'd be happier with males in the long run shouldn't that be who I focus on?

I'd also like to just thank you Heather for being here to talk with me, it's absolutely wonderful and you've been lots of help so far. [Smile]

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-Rakko

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Heather
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Happy to be of help.

But I'm feeling perhaps as confused as you are, because you keep going back to physical attraction, which I think we've agreed are aesthetics, instead of sexual and emotional attraction.

I can't speak to what is "matural" when it comes to who anyone should be with, particularly because based on all we know, and what all of us report, being with a person of any given gender has the possibility of being or feeling "natural." It's just a matter of figuring out what feels most authentic (a more helpful word, I think, than natural) for you. And indeed, I think time and some more life experience is bound to help.

Here's the thing: some of us have a sense of who we are orientation-wise, very clearly from even very young ages (I was like that). Other people question a lot, or have a longer route to figuring out where they land. These are just variations of all of our experiences and who we all are: there's no one right or wrong way to get there, it's just different for everybody.

I also think it's important to remember that things like this are more about feeling than thinking. In other words, you can't analyze your way to figuring out who you're attracted to and want relationships (of any kind) with. These are things where we feel our way. If we overthink them, we're bound to feel more confused. We've just got to feel them out over time.

Why don't you sit with the idea of identifying as questioning for a few weeks, and see how that feels. Additionally, make sure you're taking pressure off of yourself. There is no "right" way to feel in this or a "right" orientation. As wel, no one needs to know what their orientation is or how they want to identify it to know who they like and want to pursue a relationship with and THAT is the information one needs here. You'll love who you love and like who you like however you identify: how a person identifies is supposed to be a reflection of those feelings, not the other way around, where someone IDs a given way so it somehow dictates what those feelings will be.

Get what I mean?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rakko
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I know, that's a main problem...I keep going back to physical attraction, it is just aesthetics in my opinion. But I always just hear how people are like "ooh look, that guy is so hot" or "that girl is really hot". Almost always do I agree with the latter comment. It feels like I should at least like to look at guys, but I really don't and it just doesn't fit with the sexual attraction I have towards them. Being in school, I walk past many people every day, but really I find almost none of the guys as attractive as the girls. The thing is that all of that is just based on the facial features (I know I feel extremely shallow having these thoughts, but I can't seem to not have them).

The past few days/weeks I've been trying not to overthink these kinds of things, and it's certainly not as bad as it was when I first started to question. So, that's a good thing, but I don't want to just ignore it all together and leave it for later when I'd probably be even worse off.

As you advise, I'll try to identify myself as questioning and I'll take even more pressure off myself for a few weeks. I understand that our orientation doesn't determine who we want to be with, but who we want to be with determines our orientation. I'm just not sure because at this moment I think that would mean I'm more heterosexual. Why I feel that way, I'm not sure, I'm thinking it has to do with the lack of a relationship with a male.

Sidenote: I also took the quiz here http://www.youthnetsouthampton.org.uk/breakout/multidimensional.php and got pretty much the same results as the Klein grid.

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-Rakko

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Heather
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Again, too, I'd encourage you to really try to stop thinking about orientation as heterosexual or homosexual. "More" heterosexual or such only makes sense if there isn't anything in between, when we know that there is.

Not only does language like that tend to render those of us who are bisexual or pansexual as invisible, which just isn't cool, I don't think it's helping you out any, either. [Smile]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Rakko
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Alright, I'm sorry...I assure you I meant no offence. I just meant that being floating around the sexual orientation spectrum as I am, I just feel pushed more into that one direction at the moment. Sorry again [Frown]

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-Rakko

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Heather
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I know you didn't. No worries. [Smile]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rakko
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I'm still wondering if maybe you could shed some light on this:
quote:
Originally posted by Rakko:
I know, that's a main problem...I keep going back to physical attraction, it is just aesthetics in my opinion. But I always just hear how people are like "ooh look, that guy is so hot" or "that girl is really hot". But, I rarely think anything along those lines and if I do it's almost always about a girl (even though I have almost no evident sexual attraction to them). It feels like I should at least like to look at guys, but I really don't and it just doesn't fit with the sexual attraction I have towards them. The thing is that all of that is just based on the facial features (I know I feel extremely shallow having these thoughts, but I can't seem to not have them).

I think that's really a major thing holding me back. I'm just not sure what it means, cause how can I fantasize so often and exclusively about something I don't find appealing?

[ 01-09-2010, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: Rakko ]

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-Rakko

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Heather
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Have you considered that it's possible that what you find attractive in men, your own preferences, just aren't something you've seen yet in person in your particular community?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rakko
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Yes, I have considered that. I just keep remembering to when I was sure I was gay, and how I used to have crushes on guys (usually a few in media and a couple in my actual life). Now though it seems that's all just gone and it's like I'm not even attracted to guys. I noticed that it's been like that for awhile now (even before the questioning started)... I've also put some thought into the idea that I'm not interested in finding someone due to the confusion and hence don't find anyone attractive except for females whom I just have an appreciation for. Thing is that I think I am interested in finding someone.

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-Rakko

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Heather
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Do you want to talk about how your fantasies of how men look do or don't measure up to the reality of men you have seen in-person so far?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rakko
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Ummm, could it be possible to tell you that in private?

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-Rakko

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Rakko
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Heh, you know I might as well post it I guess...that's what being anonymous for the most part is about right? This is just, in my opinion an odd thing to share with anyone who might read this...

My fantasies lately have been vague to the point where I don't even consider it fantasizing, just random events with me and some non-constant male figure (it's like my fantasies don't even know what I want anymore so it just substitutes in a vague figure). When they were actually detailed and vivid fantasies (wasn't too long ago) the men I fantasized about weren't exactly human, but definitely humanoid with aspects that are applicable to everyday people (as an example think of the characters from "Avatar"...only way I could really describe it).

Edit: I'd also like to point out that I know how unrealistic it is to fantasize about things that. Since then I have limited the amount I fantasize like that and tried to fantasize about realistic things with some success. (I still hardly ever fantasize about women though)

[ 01-10-2010, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Rakko ]

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-Rakko

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Heather
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I'm heading out to do a bunch of office work for the day, but maybe it's a good idea to think/talk about gender outside binaries?

In other words, per people you find you feel attracted to, any difference outside what you've talked about with men or women when it comes to people who are more androgynous or genderqueer?

(From a personal standpoint, for instance, I usually only felt strong attraction all through my teens and well into my twenties to androgynous or genderqueer people. People who were on the furthest ends of the gender poles didn't do anything for me at all.)

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Rakko
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Office work doesn't sound too fun, I hope it was alright for you. Just got around to replying as I've been swamped in school work, and I'm not sure if I'll get another chance to reply tonight.

I have been thinking outside of gender binaries, even though it may not seem like it from the posts (it's hard to include every detail [Razz] ). I don't think I've mentioned this, but I really think I lie outside the general male gender role myself. I guess I'd say that I look at myself as around 10% female and 90% male (I'm not sure what that classifies me as, but I think I'm just a normal confused guy). As for whether I find that attractive, I think if a guy was more feminine than me that would be kind of unattractive to me (I like masculine guys basically, though there would be plenty of exceptions of course). In women, I'm not really sure...but I'd say they should be mostly feminine. I guess I'm saying that androgynous or genderqueer people don't do much for me in that area.

I kind of thought about something today at school. I just keep seeing girls walk past me, and it's hard to describe, but I get this whole "we could have a good relationship" idea...even though I don't even know them. Then I think about how I hardly ever fantasize about women, and it seems like I wouldn't have much to do in an opposite sex relationship that I don't already do with friends who are girls. Whereas in a same sex relationship it would be different, yet every time I walk past another guy it's like "meh, your alright...but certainly not someone I want to have a relationship with"...I don't even know where these thoughts come from! Now I just feel really shallow and like a terrible person, even though I know I find the person's personality and qualities way way more attractive than their physical appearance. Have I just not talked with enough nice guys in order to associate an appearance with them or something?

[ 01-11-2010, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Rakko ]

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-Rakko

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Rakko
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So, I just thought I'd post something that happened to me yesterday...

I was grouped with a guy for a project, and after talking to him for even just a short while I started to kind of feel an attraction to him I guess you could say. Then after getting to know him a little more throughout the project I became less attracted (which I'm assuming is normal as you get to now someone and figure they aren't quite what your looking for). But, for a short time I actually believe I felt something for him. It wasn't sexual or physical attraction either, though I did feel a little sexual/physical attraction to him when I was feeling that way towards him. I think I kind of realized that one thing that makes people (specifically men) in my everyday life so unattractive is that they don't smile, or appear happy. I'm not sure if this really is anything, but I'm not sure if it would have been the same way had I been partnered with a girl.

Now, I'm not going to ask him out or anything because he really wasn't the kind of person I'm looking for, looking back I realized how trivial my attraction was to him (funny thing was that I almost did ask him to go out for food after the project...I guess that's kind of how I felt at the time). I'm curious though, if I can be attracted to a guy within minutes of meeting him, wouldn't that mean that I can find someone whom I could be attracted to after getting to know them a lot better? Does it mean that I'm only sexually/physically attracted to people after I kind of establish an emotional attraction? Could a possible explanation for me being inexplicably attracted to women be that I've associated an emotional attraction with the gender after having relationships with them, and good friendships?

Also, I'm not sure if this is weird or if it's just part of what I'm going through. It seems as though my sexual identity fluctuates day-to-day, like I could go from feeling I'm at one end of the spectrum one day and be at the other the next, or somewhere in-between. It's just strange how things that come up in my life can push me around the spectrum.

[ 01-13-2010, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Rakko ]

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-Rakko

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