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Hey, the week was good enough. Was hanging out with friends lot more then in past months, so didn't feel as stressed out by work. Actually some homophobic "stigma" is what I think there will be someday. To be honest, I think that homophobia is just a part of problem, I bet that many people who are homophobic are also "phobic" of many other things, intolerant in many way; its like a personality trait.. to fix minds lot of time and education is needed. I don't see other way.
I was feeling sad when I thought that I didn't fit with anyone in LGBT center. I always tend to blame myself in such things for doing something wrong, but I guess its not the right way, it just happens. Hope your weekend went good Posts: 73 | From: Russia | Registered: Mar 2010
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Hey, glad to hear it. I think you're right that sometimes it can just be hard to fit in. I think I had to go along to a few groups before I found one I liked. Weekend was great as I didn't work! I think the lonely feeling is manageable. Do you think it's hypocritical to go to Pride when you don't feel proud? Or when you might feel more ashamed to talk about it than proud?
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I honestly don't get fully this "pride" thing.. why be proud of sexual orientation? For me personally its enough just not to feel ashamed. So I don't see anything hypocritical or shameful in going there with no "pride" in. But you can go there for that "unity" feeling, I guess its beneficial for the feeling of shame too, just moment of good emotions.. why not then?
Few days ago my colleagues was making not-so-funny jokes about gay people, including one resident doctor, picking on his feminine behavior. Other day one doctor remembered about me wearing long hair (actually was end of my silly "metalhead" period.. hehe) when I came to clinic, joking that older colleagues probably "thought I was gay". I couldn't help but feel tensed though tried to look like I don't care or just joke it out. Its sad that I still feel touchy when talks come to such topics. Its also sad that I'm in quite good relationships with those people and enjoying working with them.
Posts: 73 | From: Russia | Registered: Mar 2010
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If I can pitch in, pride events really aren't so much about being proud of one's orientation. Rather, they're about having pride in yourself and your fellow queers when it comes to being who you are, having the courage to be who you are and not feel ashamed because others want you to, etc. IOW, about pride in the courage to be oneself and feel good about that when it is or can be dangerous for you to do that because of other people not feeling that way -- or, perhaps more accurately, feeling threatened -- or unsupported.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63256 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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Thanks for both of your thoughts. I'd never really thought of it like that, Heather. I do feel proud of myself that I've been able to come out more and meet people despite my familiy's feelings. And I agree that the unity with others can be so good and combats feeling alone.
I'm sorry to hear that your colleagues make comments like that, I've heard similar things at work too and I usually don't point it out. You're right, sometimes people can be really nice and good to work with apart from making those comments.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
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Thought I might post an update. I went to Pride, it was a nice small celebration and there was no parade. Overall I'd been struggling though. I guess anyone who has followed this thread might know I've bordered on depression and been in therapy for a few years. But recently triggered by some family issues I've been forced to take a longish break from work due to depression. It's not very safe for me to work with people while I'm sedated, restless and can't concentrate. I'm doing ok. I'm exercising every day for the first time in more than 10 years. Even though I might feel like a worthless failure I know that I'm not. I want to learn to take care of myself better and learn coping strategies so I can recognize the signs and never hit this low again. If anyone else is in this situation, I can't encourage you enough to seek help. I am worth it. You are worth it.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
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hello again...... I know i really dont understand what you are going through ...... I just wanted to say i hope you come out of this depression soon.....( i am also currently on a break from studies -since i am bordering on madness ....so planning to give my exams later when i am my normal happy self ) ......you have been so supportive of me.... I just wanted to let you know you have my support too take care
-------------------- All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; Posts: 94 | From: the land of the nizams | Registered: Sep 2011
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Aww thank you so much for your reply. Its wonderful to feel supported. I've finally gotten into a normal sleep cycle on meds and will soon be back at work. Take care xo.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
-------------------- All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; Posts: 94 | From: the land of the nizams | Registered: Sep 2011
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aww yeah eryn .....haven't heard from u since a long time ...
-------------------- All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; Posts: 94 | From: the land of the nizams | Registered: Sep 2011
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Hi guys, thanks for being supportive , how are you both doing?
Things have been a bit tough for me. I decided to take further longterm leave from work for the next few months and it has been financially tight. I also deferred postgraduate exams until mid 2012. I'm staying with family and it is great being able to keep an eye my parents' health while at home but they have been bringing up my marriage intentions frequently. I don't know if I'm strong enough currently to have a full blown argument about sexuality again. So I just keep telling them that I'm not ready for marriage, I want to find a partner on my own, and that if I change my mind, they'll be the first to know!
As well, I don't much like being surrounded by SL uncles and aunties again, feeling that I'm being judged by them for various petty reasons, not least my 'single' status at 26yo. I am thankful for simple things- restful sleeping, daily exercise and being able to catch up with friends and meet new ones. I realised that there are still quite a few old friends that i'm not out to, and I'd like to work on improving that support circle. Also on reducing contact with the homophobic ones in a tactful way.
Talking with my counsellor, we discussed that now would be a bad time for a new intimate relationship as I'm mentally unwell and that person may end up needing to 'rescue' me, which isn't a great start to an equal partnership. The thought of being alone makes me so sad and lonely sometimes and I want to get better really soon so that I can start actively pursuing dating.
Unfortunately, when feeling down, I have been in some risky sexual situations with people I haven't met before. And as much as I like to think I wouldn't judge others for who/when/why/how they decide to be sexual, I have judged myself . I feel ashamed and dirty. I wonder why I was so reckless with my health and why I didn't insist on barriers, with all the knowledge I supposedly have. I worry about how I'm going to justify my actions to any future partners I may have and about how hard it will be to talk honestly with them. I am lucky to have a REALLY supportive GP that I can be open with and have had a first round of infection testing. I've also needed to defer donating blood for a year because of those activities, which is another small thing that weighs on my mind.
I'm going to a few weddings in the upcoming months. Those can be difficult for me in terms of managing sadness and jealous feelings. What I find the most difficult is seeing such an open display of affection/love/connection which is (in my experience) embraced by friends and family attending. I feel that while I may be able to have a civil ceremony with a female partner one day, I will never be able to have a happy celebration in that way with my family. I was thinking about something that Heather had written regarding quite a different situation and it seemed to help:
quote:Originally posted by Heather: I also want you to know that I certainly, professionally but also personally, understand not being able to do or have things other people can and how getting to a good space with that can take some serious adjusting, and I also know it can feel very upsetting.
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Reading that through again, I wonder if I could ask for advice on a couple of things...
I'm really struggling to maintain my "being single is good" attitude. Does anyone have tips on this? I find that being unattached in the midst of most friends already in committed couples is tough. I feel like I need to be ok with this because it could be a really long time before I'm emotionally ready to date someone and will probably take even longer to find someone who is willing to be with me Plus, jealousy is a really yuck feeling for everyone involved.
I also find that when I'm single, depressed and less occupied than usual (ie not exhausted from working + study), I'm more likely to put myself in careless sexual situations with others which I later regret (because my actions don't correlate with my values). I miss touching and being touched so much . I do distract myself by spending time with friends, exercising hard and occasional massages. But beyond that, I'm not sure what I can do? I did talk about this issue with my counsellor who suggested that I could be a bit more easy-going with myself and allow myself to express sexual feelings however I want to. I don't find that approach easy though. I also feel that my values are more conservative and culturally different from hers so she doesn't quite get where I'm coming from when she talks about letting go of guilt/shame/regret.
Sorry, I think that turned out more of a mouthful than I intended! Thanks for any input anyone wishes to offer.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
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Hey! I'm sorry to hear that you are going through rough times now I hope you will get through that with help of your counsellor and supporting friends. Yet again, reading you I see lot of common issues that I'm having in past months too. Comment about being single 25 yo man, moving out from my parent's house, depression, problems with studying, loneliness.. Sometimes I'm getting jealous of other people's relationships, like what you said.. but I'm trying to fight that feeling. I think you should not be ashamed of yourself, you are feeling down at the moment and, I guess, not very experienced in relationships. You are human at first, then a doctor, right? You should not justify, if your future partner will really care for you, then he/she will understand.
For me biggest problem now is that my city (2d biggest in country) is about to embrace a bill "against propaganda of sodomy, homosexuality... etc." that sounds like complete bullsh*t.. I'm out of shock now, but I'm really worried about how things will turn out. 2 girls from LGBT center that I attended was already beaten after some civil demonstration against that bill. This law is absolutely nonsense in term of medicine and human rights. Anyway, this is just making me want more to leave this damned place..
As for tips you asked. I'm not experienced one as you understood already. I'm very familiar with "being single is good" cause I was like that whole my life. I'm just so used to it, I'm always too was surrounded by couples, that made me feel jealous. All I do to get through that is think and hope that there will be "my time". I don't know, but for me its quite soothing.. I just feel that I'm making steps on right way, maybe slower than others, but I really do.. Just have to be patient for that. Well, I can't tell anything about sexual.. things, cause I'm avoiding them like crazy.. but thats a whole another story hehe. I guess your counsellor could be right, but nobody can tell you to change your views that are coming from culture or traditions. I think guilt that your are feeling could be an important theme for your therapy? When I just started my therapy, my guilt was very high and I thought that I will never get rid of it, but now I see that I actually did.
I hope something I said makes sense, cause I'm very tired and sleepy hehe. Take care. Posts: 73 | From: Russia | Registered: Mar 2010
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hello eryn .....i'm giving a huge hug from where i am *hugs*
i am really sorry things are on the crazier side for you. i have read your message two days back...and have been thinking of you, since then and not knowing how to answer to it.
i know the eternally lasting question of when will you get married , is kinda awful.but hey! just hang in there( we, at least all the queer ones in india are in the same boat).and i know exactly what you mean ,about your relatives. i have currently cut off all sorts of contact with them , in fear of what they will think of my orientation and about my marriage. but i guess its easier for me right now because i am in college far from home. and once i return back, i fear i will be in the same situation as you.
i feel what you feel when you say you feel sad and lonely and jealous when you see others together straight or gay.
i fear that's what got me into a weird on off relationship with a girl. but it really got me thinking whether i really felt any kind real feeling or love for her or i would have entered a relationship with any other person i came across.
i felt really vulnerable. i was feeling all down and depressed and the thought of others together made me real jealous. then i met many ppl down at my support group who have this attitude, "we dont mind being single all our lives , waiting for the someone whom we wont cling to, we want to be in a real relationship , not one just for the sake for stop being lonely " ...infact i met this 26yr old girl one of the admins there who told me " i am celibate ... i feel like being celibate for next ten years... i just dont want to rush into a relation just because i feel this lonely, because i dont want to be so vulnerable"
well that advice works only for a few hours and then i keep longing to hold someone and being loved by someone....but i try to immerse my self into books to distract myself... i have found once my frontal lobe is activated , few sad thoughts get filtered out of my head atleast for a while
i am really sorry i could not be of any help in advicing you.that being of the reasons i have replied so late....i just you want to hang in there...and know you are being supported by all of us here. and i know that you will find someone who will love you soon. *hugs* xoxo take care eryn,
-loneranger
PS : you said you are taking your post graduate exams in mid2012 and you are kind of free right now, well if they are more theory rather than clinically oriented , then you could also spend more time with books , to keep your mind of things right ?
-------------------- All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; Posts: 94 | From: the land of the nizams | Registered: Sep 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Smthng56: For me biggest problem now is that my city (2nd biggest in country) is about to embrace a bill "against propaganda of sodomy, homosexuality... etc." that sounds like complete bullsh*t.. I'm out of shock now, but I'm really worried about how things will turn out. 2 girls from LGBT center that I attended was already beaten after some civil demonstration against that bill. This law is absolutely nonsense in term of medicine and human rights. Anyway, this is just making me want more to leave this damned place..
Before I reply fully, I wanted to say I'm so sorry and disgusted with these proceedings! My online networks have also been circulating info on it: "Medvedev and Putin's party is pushing a law to vote this week that would make any mention of lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender issues illegal. The bill, which has now been scheduled for a vote on November 30, would criminalize any book, article or speech about sexual identity and gender orientation, labeling it homosexual propaganda."
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Smthing 56: I am thinking of you today. I really hope that this bill in St Petersburg is not passed today. I cannot believe that it compared homosexuality with paedophilia! Grr is it not 2011 ?! I understand that many European countries and the US have written condemnatory letters to your government. I want you to know that so many of us around the world are in solidarity with you. You're not alone in this.
Thank you for your supportive words, I liked the part about being human first. I think that's very true about taking small steps in the right direction and being patient.
Two of my close lesbian friends (a couple) are visiting our town in a few days. I had a funny hopeful idea of possibly breaking down barriers and asked my parents if we could have them over for dinner. Before I mentioned they were gay, my parents were really keen. After I mentioned it, my mum said she wasn't interested and asked me in an accusing way how I had met them and why they were my friends. I admit that did make me sad. But I think its definitely a step in the right direction that we were able to discuss this, at least.
I met a cool Indian gay woman from online who was travelling through our area and am feeling more positive this week . You also take care and keep us updated, alright?
Loneranger: I am happy to return your hugs and thank you for your kind reply! Yes, the marriage questions do suck. Yesterday an aunty called our house for another reason and also just had to ask my parents how my "unmarried problem" was going. Makes me ultra-grumpy haha. It's interesting to hear about what the people at your support group said about this. I would really like to be able to hold onto that sort of perspective. I can tell that I do tend to rush into sexual situations when feeling lonely and vulnerable.
PS- Good idea about the books. Imagine if I got an A+ or something...what a change it would be from usual, ahem You take care too. Look forward to reading what is new with you..
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
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Hey again. Well, the law was removed from yesterday's voting, so I (and many others) feel bit relived. I guess the attention this problem got from the world helped a lot. Although lawmaker that suggested that bill promised that it will be adopted after elections... But we will see now And thanks for your support
Yeah, I think that its a nice step with your parents, they should get used to that idea with time Posts: 73 | From: Russia | Registered: Mar 2010
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I'm relieved too. I pray that the bill will never be adopted while there are enough wise and caring allies around to put pressure on governments. I really hope that the 2 girls from your LGBT center are ok...I think that people who take a public stand in that way have a lot of courage, I don't know if I could do it.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
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There is a push here in Australia to allow same-sex marriages. Currently the Opposition parties would vote against it because that is what the leadership of those parties is like, and the current plans of the party in power are to allow a conscience vote for their members. However with one major party having a conscience vote and the opposition parties voting as a bloc, it wouldn't get through. However I am pleased that there seems to be so much support for changing the Marriage Act to not have an "opposite sex" requirement, and there is still a possibility of the party in power changing their policy and voting as a bloc to get legislation enough votes to be passed.
Even though I am a heterosexual, I don't see why heterosexism should be enshrined or celebrated in the Marriage Act. With all the importance placed on marriage, it allows so many extremely mean and heartless comments to be made against people in same-sex relationships when they are expressly forbidden from the important societal rite of marriage.
People are people first. Sexuality is a part of our characters, but we are all people. I see a heterosexual-only Marriage Act as institutionalized discrimination, and strongly support plans to change it. Even though my dad doesn't agree, I strongly support the movement building in Australia to allow same-sex partners (and this includes all relationships that include bisexual and/or homosexual partners of same-sex, not just "gay marriage" as some people say) the opportunity to be married. Love, described as genuine caring and consideration and thinking of other people, is part of all healthy human relationships, and it would be such a huge step forward if the party in power can have the strength of character to end the heterosexist descrimination in Australia's age-old Marriage Act. And it would be a positive example for the world too.
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Hello Wesluck, thanks for bringing that up , I was just reading about what was happening in Australia. I understand that the Labour party recently decided to allow the conscience vote for their members?
I strongly support the marriage equality movement too. I was also reading Penny Wong's profile- I believe she was the first out gay member of the Australian federal cabinet, as well as the first Asian born federal minister. While I do not know much of her politics, I really admire her strength as a gay Asian woman.
You mentioned that your dad doesn't agree with this movement. I've realised lately that there are some situations such as these where I have polar opposite views to my parents, and maybe that is just part of becoming an adult. For example, my parents are not just against queer people raising children, they don't even think we should work in teaching, counselling or healthcare roles where we could "influence kids to be gay"! They do not even think it is appropriate for me to spend time with my young nieces and cousins in case I influence them in 'bad ways'. I, on the other hand, am a strong proponent for same-sex adoption rights here in NZ.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
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I was just watching Hillary Clinton's awesome recent speech at the UN regarding LGBT rights .
These parts I particularly agreed with: "The second issue is a question of whether homosexuality arises from a particular part of the world. Some seem to believe it is a Western phenomenon, and therefore people outside the West have grounds to reject it. Well, in reality, gay people are born into and belong to every society in the world. They are all ages, all races, all faiths; they are doctors and teachers, farmers and bankers,soldiers and athletes; and whether we know it, or whether we acknowledge it, they are our family, our friends, and our neighbors. Being gay is not a Western invention; it is a human reality. And protecting the human rights of all people, gay or straight, is notsomething that only Western governments do."
"The third, and perhaps most challenging, issue arises when people cite religious or cultural values as a reason to violate or not to protect the human rights of LGBT citizens. This is not unlike the justification offered for violent practices towards women likehonor killings, widow burning, or female genital mutilation. Some people still defend those practices as part of a cultural tradition.But violence toward women isn't cultural; it's criminal."
"Finally, progress comes from being willing to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. We need to ask ourselves, "How would it feel if it were a crime to love the person I love? How would it feel to be discriminated against for something about myself that I cannot change?" This challenge applies to all of us as we reflect upon deeply held beliefs, as we work to embrace tolerance and respect for the dignity of all persons, and as we engage humbly with those with whom we disagree in the hope of creating greater understanding."
posted
If you feel ashamed and afriad of being outed, then I think that you ought to work on getting comfortable in your own skin before you find a partner.
I have a friend who was in your position. He desperately wanted a partner. I went out with him to a gay club. He got hit on by a couple of guys who had partners and who just wanted a few minutes of fun with a new person. It just about broke his heart.
He met one of my colleagues from work there, and the guy got him drunk and took him home. He ended up staying with my colleague for a while even though the guy didn't want anything serious, and my friend was lonely.
However, the experience gave him something that he desperately needed. Confidence. We all find it in our own ways, and my friend just needed to have a sexual experience to find it.
When you look confident, people find you more attractive. Suddenly, he had about 3-4 guys from the local gay community tailing him.
In short, work on you first. I hope that this helps.
-------------------- Smile. :) Posts: 11 | From: Chapel Hill, North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2011
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Yeah, the most important relationship you have in your life is with yourself, as it is the only person who you spend your entire life with. Posts: 506 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2011
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Hello sonrisa and Wesluck, thanks for your replies . I agree that self-confidence and acceptance are really important but sadly they fluctuate greatly for me.
I was recently at a family friend's beautiful wedding and I struggled there. Many of the Sri Lankan aunties asked me when I was getting married, told me about their 'fortunate' married children and reassured me that the next wedding they'd be coming to would be mine(!!). They spoke of feeling so happy and relieved that their own daughters were 'settled' with men of our ethnicity and religion, from 'good families'. How they felt that their duty was done for their children and they could now rest in peace. I cried myself to sleep for a couple of nights and today it didn't feel so hard. But then my mother started bringing up my marriage intentions AGAIN (in a really gentle loving way). I feel like such a let-down on our family. I find myself thinking about how wonderful it would be for them if I could possibly marry a SL man. And wondering whether if I'd be a sell-out lesbian (and feminist) if I started dating men that my family suggested again, even though I think I'm still more attracted to women. Yuck!
I so don't feel strong enough to be gay today . I don't know how other people in my situation handle this without remaining closeted and having secret relations!- The few SL queer people I have met are either largely in the closet or currently in longterm supportive partnerships, and they must be a great source of strength to each other within the couple.
Am I selling out if I think about dating men that my parents introduce again? What do you guys think? I feel that for some people, who they choose to date and how open they are about it is mostly a personal choice. But for me, it is becoming very political (and divisive?) and I don't like it.
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I wouldn't judge someone for being in a relationship they didn't really want... or call them a sell out or anything. Some people I really care about have been in a situation like that but with pressures other than direct verbal familial pressure.
What I'd be more worried about is just that it would make them extremely unhappy in the long-term. You could end up introducing a lot of new pressures into your life... which I imagine is not what you're looking for here.
I still wouldn't call you a sell-out though. I don't think displaying one's political integrity is as important as feeling good! I think the politics of being good to yourself is a pretty important one! That seems to me a much place to make your decisions from...
What would feel good for you, and make your life better, rather than what won't make you a "sell-out"... It seems to me you're fighting hard every-day, therefore nobody has a leg to stand on to criticise you, whatever you come to choose to do for yourself.
I just did a bit of googling and there does seem to be some queer sri lankan women's organisations... I don't know if contacting any of those people might help? Just a suggestion that you might have already tried!
-------------------- There are seven billion sexual orientations! Posts: 327 | From: Leeds UK | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Jacob at Scarleteen: I wouldn't judge someone for being in a relationship they didn't really want... or call them a sell out or anything. Some people I really care about have been in a situation like that but with pressures other than direct verbal familial pressure.
What kind of pressures did they face, if I may ask? And how did the relationship work out?
I feel like there is more than one way to be happy and feel good, you know? Like being included in the extended family, being in touch with my young nephews and nieces, being embraced within our SL community...those things give me joy too. And I have so little experience with romantic and sexual relationships to even know whether I can be that happy from a love-relationship alone while my family acts hurtfully and excludes me.
Sometimes I wonder whether being gay and out is worth the trouble. Like how many years will it take for my parents to become more open-minded? And I would really like to have children soon. But man, I don't know if I'm strong enough have more errm 'discussions' with my mum about how "perverted queers shouldn't have contact with children, let alone be parents" and "how could you even consider using a sperm donor? that's such a disgusting concept". Even just the prospect of choosing a donor or grappling for loopholes within the same-sex adoption laws in this country feel so unappealing.
But then I think of some of the people I've met and am lucky enough to call my friends. Like an Asian trans-guy who invited me to be part of a diversity poster, so that we can represent a little of the non-white queers within a society which often tends towards the white-centric. Or the SL woman I met online who told me that the fact I came out to my parents and survived them telling me to "marry a dog" gave her courage to come out herself. Or the other SL closeted lesbian, introduced through my counsellor, who told me I was the very first person she could talk with who could relate to her perspective. I felt so happy that I was able to be there for those people. I don't want to let them down now, I guess. Ideally, I want to keep fighting, but I don't know if i'm strong enough. Also, I feel a bit of shame around the 'not being strong enough' part and am not sure how to bring up this discussion with my queer friends. Any ideas?
I'm not currently involved with any South Asian lesbian women's organizations but have read about their activities online. If there was something closer to my vicinity (asia-pacific, australia, NZ), I'd look into them further.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
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IT is just so uncool that people can find it perfectly okay to put people in a category and then imagine that category is a monster and completely ignore their responsibility to be reasonable even to other family members. I think it says more about them than it says about you that they make those incredibly hateful comments, but it still doesn't help you get more support.
Anyway, I give you my best wishes! It's not easy being non-conventional - especially when it's others who made the call about what is conventional and "accepted" and what isn't...
Posts: 506 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2011
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I agree! It is uncool. Thank you for your kind wishes I cried my eyes out in the counsellor's rooms this morning and am now feeling calmer and more in control. Am so glad for her support too.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
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I would appreciate some advice on this if possible . An idea my counsellor brought up recently was to bring my parents along to a session with her. So hopefully we could all listen to each other and say what we wanted to say (re: my sexuality and getting married/or not) in a controlled, mediated environment. Hopefully no sobbing, hysteria, threatening of self harm, etc (which has tended to happen when we try at home- I have such an interesting family, I know!). To me this sounds like a potentially good idea, a way to get things out in the open once and for all, and hopefully help me feel more free around dating and sleeping with women in the future. At the same time, I don't want to hurt and embarrass my parents in the process. I'm worried they won't feel comfortable discussing these issues in front of a white "stranger". Talking with one of my Vietnamese friends, we were saying how our parents were likely to be polite and nice with the stranger and then go home and say what they really wanted to say/ 'let it rip'. We weren't sure if this characteristic is unique to Asian parents lol! Anyway, I don't want that to happen in this situation. I don't want to hear "Why did you expose our problems and your homosexual perversions in front of this white stranger?" once we get home.
So my question is, how can I frame this to my parents? How can I make it easier for them to swallow? I feel scared but I really want to do this.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
posted
The first thing I'd suggest, eryn, is to talk in advance to your therapist about these concerns -- which I agree are valid and likely issues, no matter what, if any race/ethic politics there are, though I agree, that often amps them more. I think it'd be ideal if you two could talk about strategies with the together.
And those could certainly include setting ground rules when your parents do come, like, if they have those issues, they need to only be discussed IN the session or another session, not at home, or only at home in very limited ways.
I agree, I think this sounds so needed and so potentially beneficial. Heck, even if there is some fallout, I'm thinking that just being able to have the experience where someone else is acting as your advocate and support and speaking up/standing up for you with your parents present is something you could really stand to experience.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63256 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Yes, ideally I want to talk to counsellor and my parents about the concerns. I guess part of the reason I wanted to do this now was because I wouldn't be at home for more than a week afterwards to suffer the possible consequences. We'd only have phone and email, which would make things easier.
I'm not sure what and how much to tell my parents initially about why I want them to come to counselling with me. Any ideas? As a friend was saying, I don't want to have 'the talk' before we even get to her office!
Yes, she did say she would stand up for me
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
posted
So, sounds like the timing would be pretty good. I agree, doing this at a time when there is built-in space after for a while sounds ideal.
Maybe in terms of what to tell your parents in advance, and with the aim of not having an unsupported conversation before the goal of the supported one, you say something about a) them meeting the person who is helping you with all of this (which is a little sneaky, I admit, b/c they may hear that as helping to "fix you," but hey, if it gets them in the door, right?) b) all of you having help in having these conversations so that you don't wind up divided as a family?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63256 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Yes. They're often telling me they wish I would talk more honestly about what I'm thinking. This is going to be me talking (initially) so one would hope they'd be interested in being there. And we certainly need some help/mediation in having these conversations although some of us would prefer not having them at all!
I'm really scared about it still. But will see how it goes and will let you guys know what happens..thanks for your help.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
posted
So, sounds like another thing to say is "You often say you wish I would talk more honestly about what I'm thinking. This is a way I feel most able to do that that's emotionally safe for me."
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63256 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
So what happened was that my parents refused to come to counselling with me but we ended up having multiple major "coming out" discussions/arguments/cry-fests over the last week. It has been fairly draining. Some of the things my mother has said have been so bigoted and ridiculous that I don't even want tell anyone outside counselling what they were, because she will be heavily judged . She just told me she feels like she has cancer, and it would be better than me being gay.
I've been feeling really tired from trying to portray to my parents that I'm happy and at peace in my sexuality, when in reality, I still feel ashamed, lonely and sometimes very scared about ending up alone.
As well, I was asked to be part of a radio show, focussing on Asian issues, talking about cultural and minority issues around same-sex attraction. They said I can use a pseudonym and no photo. I feel that Asian queer visibility is really important but at the same time, it's hard being the person who is visible! Part of me feels very broken inside at the moment and I don't know if I can manage this right now.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
posted
Sorry to post again. I feel overwhelmed with all this. My dad asked me to be "very discreet" about my sexuality and relationships and not come out to anyone else (ever!). Because he doesn't think my mum's mental state can cope with it. She was talking today about how because of my sexuality, she feels her only option is suicide. He also thinks that I'm only out to 2 people other than them, which was dishonest on my part, I know. But I was trying to protect them and myself.
I don't understand what I'm supposed to do. I don't know how I can support myself as a single gay person without talking to people about who I am. I feel very sad and alone.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
posted
Hi Eryn, I'm afraid I don't really have any helpful advice but I'm so sorry you're in this situation. You sound like an awesome person, and I really hope things get better for you soon. x
Posts: 156 | From: europe | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
eryn, you and I have talked about this, but I just want to check in before we move the conversation forward. My sense was that your mother's threats of suicide were not earnest, but about manipulation. Would you say that's so, or do you think she may truly be at risk of suicide?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63256 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Thanks, treetops! Heather- I don't think she's at risk of suicide. She was very very emotional when she said that yesterday. She cried in the kitchen for hours. I feel it was probably helpful for her to get that out. Just wish I didn't have to be there for it!
posted
Well, or, putting responsibility on her as a parent, because that matters, that she had not chosen, expressly, to say that in your presence.
Really, it is part of the responsibility of people who choose to become parents to ...well, be parents. And parenting requires some healthy limits and boundaries.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63256 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I am SO glad to hear you say that: I think that if and when we find our parents flipping the script on us and asking us to be the parent, it is really, really important to maintain an awareness of it.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63256 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Yes. I mean if someone seriously felt that their daughter's actions made them feel suicidal/ like getting divorced from their spouse/ like stopping their insulin meds/ like leaving the country......surely, the least suitable person to discuss those intentions with would be the said daughter!
I feel like we've been having a more open family dialogue, which is overall positive, if sometimes hurtful. This evening, my mother momentarily stunned me by saying "You know, having great sex isn't all that's involved in having a good life!". I can sort of understand her reasoning. She thinks that being gay is all about sex. Therefore, I must be having lots of awesome sex with women, which is convincing me that I'm lesbian. If only she knew the sad truth of my (lack of) sex, then she'd be totally confused!
Part of me even regretted having restarted this discussion with them this week. I felt like my sexuality has hurt them so very much. And for what? I'm not even in a relationship or sleeping with someone. I'm worried that I'm headed for another work and study-filled, dateless and sexless year in a small town. And I've just made my family more distant.
Anyway, She did also tell me today that whatever happens, whatever problems we will have, I can visit their home anytime. It was really good to hear that . I think my dad told her she had to say that to me, lol- but still! So maybe it will be ok.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
posted
I very much agree with your first sentence. And funny -- though for sure, not sounds and hurtful -- your mother said pretty much exactly that thing about sex we were talking about last week.
I think, while we're flip-flopping, that it might be helpful to remember that your sexuality or orientation or love of women isn't one hurting them. Their attitudes about those things, and the mythologies they're clinging to around them are what are hurting them. Heck, having to confront homophobia is hurting them: that's something you all have in common, though it's obviously not the same experience for all of you.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63256 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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I think, while we're flip-flopping, that it might be helpful to remember that your sexuality or orientation or love of women isn't one hurting them. Their attitudes about those things, and the mythologies they're clinging to around them are what are hurting them. Heck, having to confront homophobia is hurting them: that's something you all have in common, though it's obviously not the same experience for all of you.
I think I can understand that. I've been feeling guilty and unhappy that I chose now, as opposed to some other time, to challenge their attitudes and homophobia. It's been really hard for all of us. They were going through some difficult life changes already. And for me, I'm feeling like this is affecting my mental health and depression at a time when I need to be ok for work.
Am trying to remind myself of something a counsellor first told me about 5 years ago- Living an authentic true life is one of the best things you can do for your mental health...
posted
You know, my best sense is this was probably going to go like it has no matter when you brought it up, and there'd likely never be a time when you felt you really had the time and energy to deal with all this giant fallout. Just hard to picture any time in life when any of us would, you know?
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63256 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
You're probably right. Maybe if I'd had a supportive partner before all these crazy dramas? (Of course, I could have been waiting for an incredibly long time!) Then perhaps it would also be easier to show my parents that my sexuality is something that makes me happy. I find it exhausting to try and tell them that when I feel awful
posted
Maybe. On the other hand, that can be a seriously intense strain on a partnership, especially when the partner winds up getting dissected by those parents, which happens with this kind of stuff a lot. Same goes for them then having to deal with the homophobia, too.
In other words, I think that might have made some parts of this easier, but added other hard parts. No matter how you slice it, there's no good time to have to deal with homophobia from people you're close to, nor any way it's going to feel okay.
-------------------- Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen About Me Get our book! Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead Posts: 63256 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I really need to feel ok right now, though. Am starting a new job and course next week, in a new town. I arranged some counselling up there and have been talking with some good friends but am very much struggling to feel up to all this.
-------------------- "Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."
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....so planning to give my exams later when i am my normal happy self ) ......you have been so supportive of me.... I just wanted to let you know you have my support too ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
that's great news . Take care![[Frown]](frown.gif)
. I feel ashamed and dirty. I wonder why I was so reckless with my health and why I didn't insist on barriers, with all the knowledge I supposedly have. I worry about how I'm going to justify my actions to any future partners I may have and about how hard it will be to talk honestly with them. I am lucky to have a REALLY supportive GP that I can be open with and have had a first round of infection testing. I've also needed to defer donating blood for a year because of those activities, which is another small thing that weighs on my mind. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
?! I understand that many European countries and the US have written condemnatory letters to your government. I want you to know that so many of us around the world are in solidarity with you. You're not alone in this. 
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