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Author Topic: Bipermissive
Ikeren
Activist
Member # 26880

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Okay. Recently I've been having some thoughts. I keep a list (of people I'd like to do scenes with, just, complete out there fantasy). Anyways, I was working on the list and typing pretty quickly and I spaced out for a minute or two. And I said to myself "How could I have left these names out? They would be a lot of fun. Or that would be interesting. Or I wonder what that would be like."

So then I realized what I had done. And I thought about it for a while. And it didn't bother me at all. I had added the names of about two of my most trusted, most liked, male friends to the list.

Okay, no big deal. Doesn't bug me at all. A bit of a surprise, but hey, I can handle that.

The thing I am seriously wondering; am I bisexual or not? I feel a bit, a very small bit of attraction to these guys. Maybe that is just cause, heck, they do look good and they are fun to hang around?

quote:
To be a bisexual, you need to have the capability of being attracted sexually and/or romantically to members of more than one sex. You don't need to have had sex with someone of the opposite sex to be a heterosexual, or to have had sex with someone of the same sex to know that you are a homosexual - you just know what you like and what is attractive to you. You know who you get crushes on and who you think is sexy. If you know that you find people of more than one sex to be attractive and sexy, you might decide to call yourself bisexual, whether or not you ever have sex with partners of more than one sex.

I think I am, a bit. But I prefer the term bipermissive, which means while I would not actively seek out a homosexual relationship, if the right guy came to me, I wouldn't turn it down. Although I don't know if that is true or not. I think I may eventually actively seek out a homosexual...I shouldn't say relationship. I don't know if that would go over well. But I would actively seek to do a BDSM scene with a homosexual, or equally bisexual guy. And I think that I would enjoy it in a erotic sense, but I don't know if that would be purely because of my sadistic and masochistic characteristics not any sort of actual ingrained bisexuality.

So the question really is: I have no romantic interest in a guy. I have no sexual interest in guys. I have sexual interest in guys in a sadomasochistic sense. But on the other hand; I have no sexual interest in girls either. However, I do have a romantic interest in girls. I have sexual interest in girls in a sadomasochistic sense. So that may or may not be indictive of anything.

So is the term for somebody like me bipermissive? One of my friends is trying to tell me that it is bisexuality and I am just in denial. However, this person also tells me she knew it all along because of "gay vibes", the exact same vibes causing her to be prejudice against a friend she thinks is pretending to be bisexual. Soooo anyways, I don't know if I am in denial; homosexuality isn't one of my prejudices. I can honestly see it happening for me.

[This message has been edited by Ikeren (edited 01-07-2006).]


Posts: 157 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

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Here's one thing: it is developmentally normal for young adults, of every orientation, especially young men (likely more due to social aspects than biology, but who knows) to....well, to some degree, have the attitude you've expressed here of, "If it came along I wouldn't turn it down." In other words, to likely be a bit or even a lot more sexually fluid than you might be at a later age.

That in and of itself often makes figuring out orientation questions in your teens and early twenties trickier than it is even five years later.

Here's one other factor to consider, based on your post: if you practice BDSM and that gets you off, then interest in that with a partner IS sexual interest. So, there's also that to account for. "Sexual interest" or attraction doesn't just mean want to have intercourse or "vanilla" sex with. It denotes an attraction that is sexual, that is about sexuality, that is about seeking sexual union or gratification of any kind.

Just a couple things to mull over.

I'm often of two-minds about self-invented terms. On the one hand, I think "Great! Everyyone diversify and express it creatively!" On the other hand, there are some downsides to that. On a practical level, like having to explain what that means to every single person who asks. Too, the queer community tends to be marginalized enough already as it is, and only claiming it when it comes along or when it suits you.... eh, I have more mixed feelings about that, and those are feelings a lot of queerfolk share when it comes to the heteroflexibles, bikindasortamaybes and the you-came-unto-me-so-you'll-do-for-now folks who come and go and kinda take what they can get, if you follow me.

Do you need a label right now, do you need to decide on this, or is this something you can just feel out over time more gardually? What do YOU feel you need in this regard?

(For the record? Your friend sounds like she's being a heel. Gaydar is all fine, well and good, but this stuff is all your call, not hers.)

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 01-07-2006).]


Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ikeren
Activist
Member # 26880

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I didn't invent the term Bipermissive. I saw it on wikipedia and felt it fit. Furthermore, the term is self-explanatory if you look up the root word, permissive, and add "bi". If I could claim I invented it, I would...I just intend to use it.

quote:
Bi-permissive describes someone who does not actively seek out sexual relations with a given gender, but is open to them. Such a person may self-identify as heterosexual or homosexual, and engage predominantly in sexual acts with individuals of the corresponding gender, and might be rated 1 or 5 on Kinsey's scale. Near-synonyms include heteroflexible and homoflexible.

On the other hand, what term do you feel is appropriate for me? Sexually flexible...hetero or homoflexible? Except I am not; if there was no sadomasochistic or EPE element, I don't think I'd have any interest; man or women. Hardly flexible.

I take my friend with a grain of salt. The same grain of salt in which I take you, I take reality, and I take myself. No opinion more or less valid, but all opinions. Actually, I probably take her opinions with one or two extra grains...

I'll outright disagree with you on the sexually fluid point. I want to remain open and "fluid"; thus, I will.

quote:
Here's one other factor to consider, based on your post: if you practice BDSM and that gets you off, then interest in that with a partner IS sexual interest.

But my question is; is that a sexual interest in my partner, or in BDSM in any circumstances? What I think I feel is that my preference towards sadism could take a male or female target, and it doesn't matter, not because of bisexuality but because I can stomach it just doing something I love...that got contorted. Like playing a clarinet piece I hate but enjoying it because I am playing clarinet anyways? Does that make sense?

I can see what you are saying about the "You came unto me so you'll do for now folks..." right now I want to experiment with my feelings and do new things. I won't do them behind the back of the girl I love, and I won't do them to her, or anyone else, against her will. So this will be interesting...

quote:
Do you need a label right now, do you need to decide on this, or is this something you can just feel out over time more gradually? What do YOU feel you need in this regard?

I am not really certain. I know I intend to come out as a sadomasochist shortly (I just have to tell my girlfriend before I tell the general public. The plan is Wednesday Jan 11th at the moment. And she knows we've got something pressing to talk about.)

At the same time I intend to tell her...well, that I am bipermissive. That isn't one I am telling anybody except her and my best friend (the girl whose opinion needs to be taken with perhaps one more grain of salt then the rest of the worlds...). That is what I am saying, I think. Except I am not. By every definition I can find, I am bisexual. But if I WAS NOT a sadomasochist, I would not be bisexual. AND that is what I am questioning.

Furthermore, for a long time I said I was not homosexual. I fought it for 4 years when I was younger. When I was stupid and ignorant and close minded. When somebody could have told me "You know, not everyone has the same feelings you do about sexual activities..." and I would have been shocked. "Ignorance is Strength."

Last year I fought off a pair of straight guys who were complete inconsiderate jerks. They pretended to have a homosexual attraction to me. In front of their girlfriends. I told them I didn't care that they were that way, but I wasn't interested. They continued to harass me (and I wasn't dating at the time). Grabbed and rubbed me, slapped my *** on occasion, hugged me. I eventually got so enraged that I stood on a stairwell speaking in a loud, frozen echoey voice (I am a tenor and a public speaker...I know the use of a well controlled voice)...that could be heard up and down the entire hallway... at them, being profane (which is rare for me), shouting that I didn't care if they were homosexual but I still wasn't interested, no means no, stuff like that.

And I am so confused. Because I would have enjoyed the attention except for the fact I knew they were straight, I knew they were just trying to take pleasure at my expense, and they were not being safe, sane, or consensual.

But I don't know, there are three other guys I have feelings for...comparative strength? Nothing compared to my love for my girlfriend. It would be like comparing a mountain and a molehill...but in comparison to the feelings I have for a couple girls that I just all around like...about 33% (1 third) as strong.

Uh, I don't know. And I am pretty sure I need an answer. Sometime soon. Pretty sure the next step is talking to my girlfriend. I'd like to talk to a serious guidance councilor, but our schools one is inept, would probably dwell on my dangerous self-mutilation aspects (I haven't done anything since I started dating. The reason was for sexual gratification; it was not a negative psycological coping behavior.)...anyways. I think I need more help...

------------------
I am a 17 year old male practitioner of BDSMLNOPQRSTUV...
LeVay Satanism composes approximately 60% of my religious beliefs. I agree with approximately 60% of LeVay Satanism.
I am a sadist (60%) I am a masochist (40%)
I am bisexual, or bipermissive. (75% heterosexual, 25% homosexual).

I seek no conflict outside my bedroom walls.


Posts: 157 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heather
Executive Director & Founder
Member # 3

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Ultimately, "bisexual" simply means that it is possible -- to whatever degree -- that someone can or does experience some degree of sexual attraction to men and women. It doesn't speak to who approaches who -- after all, there are plenty of shy bisexuals who also would not approach others first -- nor to what kind of sexual attraction is involved. It also doesn't disctate what those varying levels of attraction are.

But ultimately, I feel like the term you're most comfortable with, which you feel will work best for you in your life, is the one that is appropriate for you.

quote:
I'll outright disagree with you on the sexually fluid point. I want to remain open and "fluid"; thus, I will.

I'm not sure what's to have a big disagreement here: I said it's likely your fluidity as a young adult now will decrease as you age. Didn't say it was an edict it would.

quote:
But my question is; is that a sexual interest in my partner, or in BDSM in any circumstances? What I think I feel is that my preference towards sadism could take a male or female target, and it doesn't matter, not because of bisexuality but because I can stomach it just doing something I love...that got contorted. Like playing a clarinet piece I hate but enjoying it because I am playing clarinet anyways? Does that make sense?

I'm not sure what to tell you here: that might be a better question for other active BDSM practitioners who are not exclusively heterosexual or homosexual. Of course, if any person involved in a sexual activity with you is completely irrelevant (save your girlfriend, you've stated you experience things differently with her specifically); if you're making them object, not person, then from an intellectual vantage-point, I suppose that their gender is a non-issue. But in all honesty, that's not a sexual approach we're really going to endorse here, nor one I really want to discuss.

Per needing a label for your partner now, I'd say that just explaining all you have here is likely to come out in the discussion, so too much worry about which label sums it up best is uneccessary, because you're going to be talking about this in depth anyway.


Posts: 68290 | From: An island near Seattle | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ikeren
Activist
Member # 26880

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quote:
I'm not sure what to tell you here: that might be a better question for other active BDSM practitioners who are not exclusively heterosexual or homosexual.

Haha, thanks, but it is easier said then done.

It is possible. But I want to know what makes it possible; the fact I am sadomasochistic, or the the fact I am actually attracted to guys? It would help if there was a biological explanation of sadomasochism, but there isn't. Ideas of endorphins in masochists and sero(a)tonin in sadists. But none of it is scientifically grounded, more grasping at straws in the dark...

I feel if that the only reason I would ever consider relations with a man is because of my sadomasochistic tendancies, I wouldn't be bisexual. If I wasn't sadomasochistic, would I still be bisexual?

I don't know the answer.
I don't know how to find the answer.
And therin lies the problem.

------------------
I am a 17 year old male practitioner of BDSMLNOPQRSTUV...
LeVay Satanism composes approximately 60% of my religious beliefs. I agree with approximately 60% of LeVay Satanism.
I am a sadist (60%) I am a masochist (40%)
I am bisexual, or bipermissive. (75% heterosexual, 25% homosexual).

I seek no conflict outside my bedroom walls.


Posts: 157 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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