Hi everyone! (This is my first post) I have a problem I would like your opinion on. I'm turning 16 in a few days and I'm just so confused. For the past year or so, I've thought of myself as possibly bi. My mom divorced when i was 7 and ever since then she has had a girlfriend who has lived with us for the past 9 years. I also have a gay aunt. The fact that my mom is a lesbian used to bother me, only because her girlfriend treats me like crap. I still don't like her girlfriend(i don't even talk to her) but now I know it has nothing to do w/ her being a lesbian. When i was younger, like 13 or less, i used to act kind of homophobic- but now i think i only acted that way because I was mad at my moms g/f, and was maybe trying to cover up my own feelings that I might have. If I am bi or les then I would absolutely die if my mom or her girlfriend ever found out! I wouldn't mind telling my friends; a few of them are bi.
But anyway, I've never had a b/f. I don't go around staring at girls any more than i do at guys. In terms of sexual attraction, I'm much more turned on by girls. If i was put in a room with an equally hot guy and girl, i would choose the girl-how can a guy possibly be as sensitive or sensual as a girl could be? Only a girl knows exactly what feels good to a girl, right? And in terms of a long-term relationship, I just don't see myself in one with a guy. But that doesn't mean someday I wouldn't want to..
I guess i'm trying to label myself, and maybe I can't or shouldn't do that yet. I'm so confused though;I would like to find a relationship with a girl but how? I mean i'm in high school, how am i supposed to meet other bi/les girls?? Any advice from people who felt the same way or went through the same things?
quote:Originally posted by Kiku: how can a guy possibly be as sensitive or sensual as a girl could be? Only a girl knows exactly what feels good to a girl, right?
Actually, those things aren't gender-based. men can be just as sensual or sexually responsive as women; generally, it tends to all come down to personal chemistary, but obviously if YOU don't feel an attraction to a given man, it's all a wash anyway -- but same goes with a woman. Just because some of us are attracted to women doesn't mean we're attracted to ALL of them, or that ALL women and ourselves are going to have fantastic chemistry. Would that it were so simple.
And while yes, a person of a given gender may likely be more familiar with a set of genitalia that resembvle their own, that doesn't make us mind-readers, nor does having the same genitals and chromosomes mean we all like the same things sexually, or that we all have the same ears of sensitivity. We don't.
Sounds to me like you're feeling the need to justify attraction you're feeling, and really, you don't need to. You feel what you feel.
If you have a GSA at your school, or local community groups, those are good places to get started to get a better feel for community, for how a given identity might fit. I don't advise doing that exploration only via sexual or romantic relationships -- it's an unfortunate pattern in queer culture for many people to seek out community, mentorship or identity only through sex or romance, and it tends not to feel too great a lot of the time, for all involved.
I just have to say this. No one can tell you if you are bi/gay/straight, it's something you have to decide for yourself. You don't ask someone else if you're male or female do you. All other people can do is make you think. good luck.
Posts: 7 | From: england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Even if you do choose to label yourself, you don't have to keep that label forever or let it define you. If you go back and decide all over again how you see yourself, it doesn't mean you were wrong before or that you should have waited to come out. I'm considering coming out myself, so I try real hard to remind myself of that.
If nothing seems to fit quite right, you could always just come out was a girl who likes girls and not bother trying to name how you feel. Sexuality can be a fluid thing-- go with what makes sense to you and feels right.
It sounds to me like being raised by lesbians has simply left you with insufficient exposure to men, and as a result you have the unfortunate idea in your mind that men will never be able to satify you emotioanlly, physically or whatever. A lot of lesbians have a nasty habit of bashing men (a chracteristic that gay men seem to have, that is, they don't bash wo,men, they like to decorate them), and then we have Ellen Degeneres who suffers none of these flaws.
You may be a lesbian, or bi, or you may be neither, but it doesn't seem like to have enough experience with either gender to really know that yet.
quote:A lot of lesbians have a nasty habit of bashing men (a chracteristic that gay men seem to have, that is, they don't bash wo,men, they like to decorate them)
Cut out the stereotyping, please. Making sweeping judgements about people based on their sexual orientation is very much not okay round here.
And there's no evidence that having lesbian parents automatically leaves anyone with "insufficient exposure to men" - kids with lesbian parents still have male friends, relatives, teachers and siblings, not to mention mass media full of guys.
quote:it doesn't seem like to have enough experience with either gender to really know that yet.
Well, you don't have to have sexual experience with either gender to know who you are attracted to.
I don't feel that I am sterotyping. I am speaking from experience. There are may lesbians, though certainly not all, who are lesbians because they have a chip on thier shoulder where men are concerned. I see no sense in denying something simply because it is unpleasant.
In my OPINION, Kiku's "step mother" sounds like this type. I suppose only Kiku can confirm or deny.
Might I ask, Hambone, exactly how many adult lesbian women you've sat down with in person and talked to about their orientation, their feelings about both men and women, and their life experiences in order to assume you've had enough direct experience with a sizable sample to make an accurate generalization?
i have known three lesbian couples. Of thse couple there was one obvious to the core biological lesbian. Their partners were women who had been with men, had messy divorces, and then became lesbians. The people have been family friends up until the point where they split up.
At one point my mother was aked by one of them "where she was with her sexuality" and when she said, quite taken aback, that she pretty much still liked men, the reaction was one of pity, as if she hadn't seen the light yet. Of course they split up and one of them is now living with a man again. so.
Of course such people are not the rule, nor are they exception. I dont belive I made any generalizations. I sais there is a segment of the lesbian population who are lesbians because they have a chip on there shoulder in regards to men. I never said all lesbians do.
And what you have said is inaccurate, and that given, you're going to be called on it.
Three couples is hardly a sufficient sample for ANY sweeping statement, even if you had spent every day of your life with those three couples. Even in the case of the two couples you have deemed -- by what criteria, I hardly know, since in a heterosexist culture, the majority lesbians have been with men sexually or romantically at one time or another to some degree -- were not "core biological" lesbians (and heck if I know where you're getting that terminology from, either, it's nothing used in sexology or queer studies), you're dismissing the obvious, which is that part of the reason for their divorces may well have been an orientation shift. Or, those women may have been bisexual or lesbian to begin with, yet in monogamous relationships; any, any number of possibilities.
Divorce followed by a woman dating a woman also doesn't exactly mean a "chip" is on one's shoulder about men. And your interpretation of the conversation with your mother can also be just that.
Or, it's possible that you met two lesbian women who DO have issues with men, of whatever sort of degree, and hey, maybe one of them decided to date women because she dislikes men -- but that'd be pretty unusual. (Nearly all lesbians date women because they like women.) Even if that were the case, it's not substantial nor relevant to say that "a segment of the lesbian population who are lesbians because they have a chip on there shoulder in regards to men," any more than it would be substantial, truthful or relevlant to say that many heterosexual men date women in spite of disliking them, or that many caucasians date other caucasians because they hate african-americans or asians.
Let share my experience: in a good over twenty years of being queer myself (I grew up bisexual, but over time, my sexual attraction to men waned, and at this point, I ony date women), in many years in and out of large and small gay and lesbian communities, in queer relationships with both lesbian and bisexual women, in numerous discussions and roundtables with other colleagues working in sexuality, and in around ten years of studies in gender and sexuality, via classes, via keeping up with piles of sexology, queer and gender studies journals, references, biographies, the works, I have yet to see any evidence that even a small portion of the lesbian community is man-hating, dislikes men, or have "become" lesbian due to their feelings about men.
We have male friends, ex-lovers (and some women who ID as lesbian still have male lovers or domestic partners, for that matter), fathers, sons, brothers, colleagues who are seriously dear to us. A sizable portion of lesbians do activist work in sexuality and gender which also benefits men (like myself -- and I'm hardly alone in that), or work to end gender inequities on all sides. Discussions among girlfriends, other lesbian friends, female hetero friends tend not to be about men we dislike (though George Bush does often pose a serious exception of late). In fact, in my experience, heterosexual female friends, and a whole lot of heterosexual women's popular literature (the "chick lit" genre is a good example) tends to focus on male dislike or avarice more than the lesbian community could ever aspire to sometimes.
This argument ends here; it's not helpful to the original poster, nor is it really on the topic at hand. Moreover, we're not going to entertain broad sweeping statements with no basis at the boards, especially when such statements are hurtful and subjective. If you earnestly want to know more about lesbians that is accurate, there are a handful of very excellent gay and lesbian social studies journals, a bunch of very good websites with busy message boards, and plenty of books with first hand accounts of coming out stories and identity histories I'd be glad to point you towards.
So basically, on these boards, differing opinions based on differing experience is not allowed.
Look, I have said that there are lesbians who have serious porblems with men. I have also said that there are many who don't. I know, or have know many of both types.
So your a lesbian. Big deal. I'm bi-curious myself. I could care less. But I do believe you have issue with the masculine side of humanity, as you have demonstrated them here. Ban me from your forums if you must, but that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
There's a big difference in offering opinions and stating questionable 'facts'. There's also a difference between expressing something that might be sensitive in a polite and civil manner, and just plain being rude about it. You've been given multiple warnings, and you've been referred to a document that should answer any questions on our policies thoroughly. At this point, you have the choice of abiding by rules you've agreed to follow, finding a forum that better suits you, or having your posting priveleges suspended indefinitely.
------------------ Milke, with an L, Mrs BD to you, RATS, TMNTP, MF, CWCD, WAOTA
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