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Author Topic: Is it possible....
icanthinkofaname
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Is it possible to be gay and like men if you don't want to? I like girls, but I'm afraid that one day I'll end up liking men without wanting to. If I want to like girls, is it possible to liek guys against my own will? Thanks.

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If you can't say something nice, then don't say something nice.


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Heather
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To a large degree, there's pretty strong evidence, both scientific and experiential, thast most of us can't simply choose who wer'e attracted to.

However, it's pretty unlikely that a sort of person or gender you just are NOT attracted to and haven't been during your life, you'll suddenly wake up one day and find compelling and abhor those you did find attractive. Being gay or bisexual isn't a disease, I promise. It doesn't sneak up on you unless you REALLY weren't paying attention.

And no matter what, we all always get to choose what we do with our attractions (even those of us who are gay or bisexual). We get to only pursue whom we want to, when we want to.

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Heather Corinna
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My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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fly_little_wing
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That's something I've been really afraid of too. Right now, I would not want to be with a man, and can't imagine myself with a man. I'm not attracted to men, and the most I've ever felt for a man is still less than what I've felt for a woman. Yet I'm still afraid that sometime down the road I'll all of a sudden be a attracted to a man. But Miz Scarlet said it well: "Being gay or bisexual isn't a disease, I promise. It doesn't sneak up on you unless you REALLY weren't paying attention."
If I want to explain my sexual orientation in as few words as possible, I'd say I'm a lesbian. But if given the chance, I'd say I can't guarantee I'll never feel anything for men, but right now I'm only attracted to women. I think that's probably how a lot of us feel.

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icanthinkofaname
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i know that homosexuality isnt a disease. But in our society it's treated like one by a lot of people and I find myself scared by gay people. Lesbians don't bother me, but gay people that are anything like the gay people I see on Comedy Central are just scary. And I realize that what I see on Comedy Central are mostly steriotypes, but if i see a guy with lipstick talking with a lisp and wearing a purple dress, I would be scared.

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If you can't say something nice, then don't say something nice.


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Dzuunmod
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Well, then, the next question you need to ask yourself is why? Why would drag queens (which is what you've described) be scary?

What about gay men who are (in most other ways) just like you - that's to say, what about gay men who don't fit those sorts of stereotypes? Are they scary? Why or why not?

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...and we raise the white flag, so they can paint it red and blue!
-Joel Plaskett, True Patriot Love


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icanthinkofaname
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They're fine as long as they keep it to themselves. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want one of my friends staring at my ass or thinking about me the way I think about girls ("Damn she's hot"). It's jsut not right. Gay people can be gay, and I don't mind that, but when they're trying to hit on straight men, that's when I start to get freaked out. And I don't mean this in a bad way, so anyone who is gay and reading this don't take this offendingly, but I think that a guy kissing another guy is jsut wrong. But that's jsut my opinion.

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If you can't say something nice, then don't say something nice.


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Dzuunmod
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Well, how exactly are gay people reading that supposed to take it? You're saying that you belive what they do is wrong - if they're not hurting you, I'd say that's a pretty offensive viewpoint.

And telling gay people to 'keep it to themselves' is also pretty offensive. Why shouldn't they have just as much right to show affection for each other in public, say, as straight people do? Because it offends you, and scares you?

If that's your response, I'd say that you should keep your opinions to yourself, because, as a bisexual man, they offend me and scare me. Your rights aren't more important than mine.

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...and we raise the white flag, so they can paint it red and blue!
-Joel Plaskett, True Patriot Love


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logic_grrl
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quote:
but I wouldn't want one of my friends staring at my ass or thinking about me the way I think about girls ("Damn she's hot").

So it's okay for you to think "Damn she's hot" about a girl, but not okay for a guy to think "Damn he's hot" about you?

When it goes beyond thoughts to actual actions, I don't see why being approached by another guy is any worse than being approached by a girl you aren't attracted to, for example.

Either way, you just say a polite "no thanks" and get on with your life (and the other person should be able to accept that whether they're female or male, straight or gay). There's really nothing to be freaked out about.


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Heather
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You know, most of us during our lives will be stared or leered at by people we'd prefer wouldn't. As a woman, I have straight men giving me the once over almost everywhere I go.

But for the most part, it's not harassing or offensive to me, even if I'm interested in exactly none of them: ppeopple look at people, people find other people compelling, regardless of their orientation.

I also just want to chime in similarly with that's already been said. I founded and run this site that you're using that you've said you're thankful for previously. I am one of "those" people you're referring to, and I'd ask to be treated with a lot more respect, frankly.

And if it's okay for me to kiss or hold my boyfriend's hand in public, it should be equally okay for me to do so with my girlfriend. If the rules or locale is such that no one's partnerships or sexuality are out in any way, fine. But those of us who are queer have as much right and liberty to be as out as we want to be as straight folks do.

Lastly, it sounds like some of your own paranoia is feeding some of your opinions. Queer men or women are no more likely to hit on disinterested people than straight people are. We can't know who might be interested in us anymore than you can know if a girl is interested in you. And no one should ever be held responsible for a stranger's sex panic issues when they're being as respectful as anyone else.

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Heather Corinna
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My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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bettie
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No one can control other people's thoughts. Unless soemone expresses them, you can't even know what people are thinking anyway.

So if someone thinks you are hot, male of female, that is what they are thinking.

Like logic-girl said, if they hit on you and you are not interested, you let them know, male or female.

My friends, male, femal, gay straight, bisexual don't make a point of hitting on people unless they know the other person has the potential to be interested in them. Of course, guessing a person's orientation is not a science. A mistake may happen.

My "straight" husband gets hit on by gay men much more often than his gay brother does. He, on the other hand, has women checking him out every where he goes.

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And glad to just be me"
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icanthinkofaname
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These are just my opinions. Im not saying that it is wrong to be gay. I don't have anyhting against gay people. If I don't want to be hit on by a gay guy then thats just how it is. You can't force me to change my opinions. I'm sorry if I am offending people. I don't mean this to make people feel bad. I just mean it to put out my opinions. I don't think gay people are lesser than me. If I don't like seeing guys kissing guys then thats just how I am.I'm sorry if thats my opinion. Again, Ihave nothign against any gay epopel reading this, these are jsut my opinions, nothing more.

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logic_grrl
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I suggest you take a look at the board guidelines and board etiquette.

Sure, we can't force you to change your opinions - but we can insist that you behave respectfully and politely towards all other board users and staff.

If you're posting statements which are insulting about other people's sexual orientation (or any other aspect of their lives), then that is rude and offensive, whether it's "just your opinion" or not.

And if you express your opinions, then other people have the right to ask you to question your assumptions and think about the ways in which you may be prejudiced.

You wrote:

quote:
I don't mean this to make people feel bad. I just mean it to put out my opinions. I don't think gay people are lesser than me.

But you've said that you think it's "just wrong" for gay people to kiss in public, and that they shouldn't be allowed to think that straight people are attractive. Evidently you do think that gay people shouldn't be allowed to have basic rights that straight people take for granted.

So how can you say that you don't think gay people are "lesser" than you? And how do you expect gay/lesbian/bisexual people to feel when they read this?

If you want to say that how certain things make you personally feel uncomfortable or awkward - e.g. seeing two men kissing - that's okay. But that's very different from making statements that anything that makes you feel uncomfortable is "just wrong".

And you have to expect that people will ask questions and try to make you think about why you might feel uncomfortable about these things. Because your feelings of discomfort are your problem, not something that gay/lesbian/bisexual people are somehow to blame for.

[This message has been edited by logic_grrl (edited 04-19-2003).]


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icanthinkofaname
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ok. I guess that what i meant didn't come right. When I said jsut wrong, that was my way of saying that it makes me uncomfortable. And it jsut makes me feel uncomfortable when other men are attracted to me. Im sorry for what i said before.

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If you can't say something nice, then don't say something nice.


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Heather
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Then a good way to think about this for you might be like this: what would you advise a woman -- heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual, whichever, as it really makes no difference in this context -- to do who was uncomfortable with YOU looking at her?

How might you suggest she process that or manage those feelings? And would her discomfort (given you were respectful about looking or asking her out) be the fault of you being heterosexual or attracted to her? Would her discomfort make your being attracted to her not "right" or okay?

Just some food for thought.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson

[This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet (edited 04-19-2003).]


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icanthinkofaname
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I don't think its okay if I'm making her feel uncomfortable. If i didn't show it in any way, then she owuldn't be uncomfortable with it, because she wouldn't know. But if I was talking to her a lot or putting my arm around her shoulder or touching her ass and she felt uncomfortable then it wouldn't be okay. The difference is that if i was attracted to her and she was heterosexual or bisexual and was uncomfortable, that would be jsut because she didnt like me. But if she as homosexual, then she would probably feel uncomfortable becuase i was outside of her orientation. The same thing goes this way. If girl liked me and I felt uncomfortable (which i don't when any girl likes me) then I just wouldn't like her. But if a guy liked me, it would be uncomfortable because it would be something that theres no chance I woudl like back. I can't really explain this any further, its not really osmehting you can put into words.

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If you can't say something nice, then don't say something nice.


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Heather
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...you might note I said in a respectful way.

Sounds to me like you think we queer folks don't follow the same sorts of general respect when we're attracted to someone. I can assure you that we do just as well as any other sort of folks. Some people are just inapporpriate, period, but that has nothing to do with orientation: people of all sexual identities can be inappropriate.

Have you had gay men do the sorts of things to you you're describing here? Or are those scenarios just in your head? Because if they are, then based on what you've just said, it shouldn't be making you uncomfortable.

Lastly, someone who isn't interested generally isn't interested for reasons beyond simply their orientation. And WHY someone might not be interested in someone else who is really isn't very relevant to anything, is it? Ultimately, someone who isn't intersted still "just doesn't like you," as you've said, or just isn't interested.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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icanthinkofaname
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Okay. I haven't actually had a gay man do those types of things to me, but my friend's brother acts gay sometimes jsut to mess with us. What he does is exaggerated, and I know most gay men do things liek that, but it still makes me feel uncomfortabble. I jsut feel awry when someone who I never could be attracted to is attracted to me.

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If you can't say something nice, then don't say something nice.


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Heather
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Comparing someone's play or satire to another person's reality is just not at all sound.

It'd be a bit like saying that a little girl at 5 pretending to be a firefighter likely had it right, when in fact, what she knows of being a firefighter is probably based on what she's seen on television, when she's likely never sat and talked with firefighters or seen what happens during a fire. When for her, being a firefighter is about wearing a cool hat and having a hose.

How do you know that your friend's brothers satire resembles the behaviour of most gay men? Have you spent a lot of time around a great number of gay men? Sure doesn't sound like you have to me.

We ALL are going to have people who we could never be attracted to attracted to us, for any number of reasons. I do work as a pinup model and photographer, and I can assure you that a good 90% of the people in the world who find me attractive aren't people I'd be, or could be, attracted to. Same with folks on the street, because for most people, reciprocal attraction isn't the most common thing in the world -- it doesn't happen all of the time, by any stretch. Big whoop.

But that doesn't mean that it isn't okay for those people to find us attractive, any more so that it's not okay for us to be attracted to people who don't feel the same way about us.

And to be as plain as I possibly can with you, someone who is pretty clearly homophobic is about the last person someone who is homosexual is going to find attractive, and it can be really bloody obvious. So, while I'd really encourage you to take a bigger look at your feelings on this, I also feel pretty confident in telling you that you likely don't have to worry too much about being hit on. Most people with even basically refined social skills don't tend to come on to anyone who we don't think is likely to return our interest or affections, no matter our orientation.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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dreamBaBy
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I am a 15 year old girl. I do not consider myself to be hetero, homo or bi sexual yet.
I am still learning about my preferances and attractions. I think out loud to some of my close friends "she's cute" and a couple minutes later walk past a guy and think "He's not bad-looking". I think my best friend(female) is pretty. Does that make me lez? No. It makes me who I am If I understand what you are saying, you do not want men hitting on you, but answer this, "How do they know my sexual preferance just by looking at me?" They Can't. It's that simple. If our society held "straight" people in the minority, and you are straight, think about how you would want to be treated and to have the same rights to kiss your sig. other in public. You would not want to be discriminated against and nobody else does either. And if you cannot accept people for who they are and not what their sexual preferance is, you need to just keep your discrimanatory, hurtful comments to yourself.

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¤dreamBaBy¤


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fem_treefrog
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The one thing that really stood out to me is, you're saying "Lesbians don't bother me..."!
How can you think homsexuality is "just wrong" then think, it's okay for the girls to do it?
I'm sure if you were to ever see two men kissing in public it would freak you out.
On the other hand, if you were to see two women kissing in public, I assume it would turn you on(or at very least,not "bother" you. Am I correct?
fem_treefrog

[This message has been edited by fem_treefrog (edited 04-26-2003).]


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icanthinkofaname
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For the most part, yes, you are right. Lesbians turn me (and every guy I've ever talked to about porno) on. Guys kissing guys don't turn me on. I can't realyl explain this any further, that's jsut how it is for me.
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Dzuunmod
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But, that certainly doesn't mean that public displays of lesbianism should be okay, while public displays of male homosexuality shouldn't. I'm sure there are people out there who are offended by lesbianism, just as there are - believe it or not - people who're offended by heterosexuality. Why should your sensibilities be considered most important?

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...and we raise the white flag, so they can paint it red and blue!
-Joel Plaskett, True Patriot Love


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Dzuunmod
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Oh, and one other thing: I wouldn't take your sample of guys as one that's representative of men in general by any stretch.

It's like if I ask friends of mine what they think of George W. Bush (or Stephen Harper, if we're talking Canadian politics): few people are going to say they like him, just because that's the sort of company I keep for the most part. That doesn't mean that no one likes these guys, I mean, people have voted for them, otherwise I'd have never heard of them.

It's the same thing with gay porn. They keep making new stuff, and sex shops do keep stocking the stuff, so that must mean that there are people who pay money for it. They just aren't people in your circle (that you know of, anyway).

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...and we raise the white flag, so they can paint it red and blue!
-Joel Plaskett, True Patriot Love


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Heather
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Lastly, what turns you on or doesn't shouldn't be the basis for determining anyone's basic human rights or liberties.

I can also likely assure you that in the same way you've likely never met a gay man in the vein your paranoia follows, in your fantasies and pornography, you've also very likely never seen lesbians, kiddo: you've instead seen actresses having girl-girl sex, and often in ways that aren't very representative of much of the sex most of us have with real-life girlfriends.

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Heather Corinna
Editor and Founder, Scarleteen

My epitaph should read: "She worked herself into this ground."
-- Kay Bailey Hutchinson


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icanthinkofaname
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Note that I said this was my opinion, not how things should be. I never said that gay guys shouldnt be allowed to kiss in public, I jsut said that I feel uncomfortable when I see a guy kissing a guy(>.> Christina Aguilera's music video). If you're going to tell me I'm wrong, at least tell me I'm wrong about something that I actually said.

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If you can't say something nice, then don't say something nice.


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Milke
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There's nothing wrong with feeling that way, things that are unfamiliar to us can often make us feel uncomfortable. Remember when you were seven, and sex was just the grossest, nastiest thing EVER? A few years later you probably found it seeming a bit less icky, and eventually it probably became something you were curious about, then something you were comfortable with. It's much like that. The idea of someone expressing love with their own sex may seem weird, but once you realise just how normal and common it is, as well as that it's harmless, and capable of bringing a lot of people great happiness, you'll probably find you become a lot more comfortable with it.

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Milke, with an L, SSBD, RATS, TMNTP, MF

I still love you, oh, I still love you
...Only slightly, only slightly less than I used to


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