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» Got Questions? Get Answers. » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » LGBTQA Relationships » There's a girl I wanna get to know who is dating

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Author Topic: There's a girl I wanna get to know who is dating
Ste-Funnie
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There is a girl in my school (I'll call her Piercing) she's a lesbian. I wanna get to know her, and I do like her, but she has a gf right now. I'm jealous b/c, that too, I like her, but a) she's been dating that girl for approximately 2 years, regardless that I thought it was not probable b) Piercing is popular, or I'm not sure about popular, but something like. In fact, I wouldn't date someone who's popular all b/c of it. Idk who the gf is but the truth is, I've been told years that whether it's a queer or straight relationship, usually if they're dating in HS, they don't stay together forever. So the benefit is, it's possible and likely they might eventually break up. It probly won't be an eternal relationship.

In the hallway at school, I walk pass her and glance at her face. Sometimes I'm about say hi, but I chicken out. I used to wanna break up someone else's relationship but now I'm too nice to do that.

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~Stephanie Gabriella Murray
I'm very gay for being a lesbian, and not gay to be what I'm not

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CoatRack
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What is your question?

If she is in a relationship then the healthy and mature thing to do is to respect that, and not think about when they are going to break up or ways that it could happen.

I know that sometimes it is hard to see people we like in relationships but it's a fact of life.

I have noticed that you seem to place a lot on one aspect of a person's identity*. Things might be a little easier for you if you didn't place quite so much emphasis on one part of how a person identifies and instead got to know people as the individuals that they are.

One of the principles that I strive to live up to is "the inherent worth and dignity of every person." That means that everybody is worthy of respect as an individual. We can certainly respect peoples' various identities, chosen or otherwise, but when you start deciding who you would or would not date, interact, or look for as a potential partner based on one perceived aspect of identity (like popularity) then you may be cutting off a whole world of possibility and a lot of fun.

So maybe with this girl at school you could simply get to know her just as a friend, without any thoughts in the back of your mind about getting with her at some later date, or her breaking up with her girlfriend. Having LGBTQ friends in middle or high school can be really essential to not feeling quite so alone.

Also, does your school have a GSA (Gay Straight Alliance) or any other kind of group for LGBTQ and Allied students? It might be worth looking into. If not, I see you live on Long Island. LIGALY is a great group - I have quite a few friends who have attended meetings there and they have had nothing but positive things to say. Groups like that can be a fabulous way to meet other LGBTQ youth.

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*Examples of when you did this: in this thread saying that you'd never date somebody who was popular, in another thread saying you'd never date somebody who was autistic, and in yet another thread saying that only bisexual people would say "yes" when they meant "no" to you

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Hey folks, my name is Andrew and I was a mod here for awhile a couple years ago. I'll be here for a couple weeks while Heather is out and the site is even more short-staffed than usual

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Ste-Funnie
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CR: Idk what ur talking about in the 3rd paragraph. I do respect her relationship. You did see the part where I said I'm too nice to break them up, did you? You sound like you are making me the bad guy. I did no harm with her relationship and I can be jealous if I want. I mean, I dont "want" to be but y'all know what I mean. Also, I ain't getting my hopes up that they'll break up. I'm just thinking positive which is way different. Which is better than whining about my jealousy and moping like "omg she's the last girl on earth! ohh! why don't she love me!" In fact, she ain't the only girl I like who is gay.

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~Stephanie Gabriella Murray
I'm very gay for being a lesbian, and not gay to be what I'm not

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CoatRack
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First and foremost, I do not pass value judgments on people - “good” and “bad” are such vague words that it would hardly be useful, anyway.

Maybe my answer wasn't suited to your question because, as I said at the beginning, I wasn't quite sure what your question was, or if you even had one. Did you have a question that you wanted answered?

The reason I suggested you respect her relationship is that you did talk some about the possibility and chances of her breaking up with her girlfriend which leads me to feel that you are hoping they will break up. Additionally, in your response to me, you said that you weren't wishing that they'd break up, but you followed up by stating that hoping they'd break up was “positive thinking.” I don't think that's a great way to start a friendship, which you say you want with this person (I am assuming that by “get to know” you mean “become friends with”). I certainly know that if somebody became friends with me I wouldn't want them hoping my relationship would end! That would make me not want to be friends with that person anymore if I found out, and it certainly wouldn't make me want to date them if I did break up with my partner.

So, yes, you are certainly welcome to be jealous, but I know that I don't like the feeling of jealousy! I try to do everything in my power to limit the time I spend feeling jealous about things – I allow myself to realize that I might be feeling jealous, but I don't let it stick around. It's like an unwanted visitor that I try to get out of my house as fast as possible! “Oh, hello jealousy. Yes, I see that you stopped by, unfortunately my life is really busy right now with lots of other things that are, frankly, more fun than you are! Bye now!” You can recognize that you are having an emotion without letting that emotion sit down and stay with you.

I'm glad you have other lesbian friends – like I said, having friends who are part of the same minority group that you are can be a really affirming thing.

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Hey folks, my name is Andrew and I was a mod here for awhile a couple years ago. I'll be here for a couple weeks while Heather is out and the site is even more short-staffed than usual

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Ste-Funnie
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WHOA!!! Just b/c I hope for something to happen, it doesn't automatically make it come true. It's okay to hope for something. I'm not like that crazy girl in the crucible who tried to make a spell for her crush's wife to die. I don't do witch craft! If they wanna break up, they'll do it if they wanna. They prob don't and I do respect that. So I think you should get your facts straight.

Plus, I never said that breaking up is positive. I really do feel like ur making me the bad guy! Plus, I can't tell the future. Maybe they'll break up, maybe they won't. Idk!

Also, If I wanna get to know a lez, I do wanna be friends w/ them but I don't wanna be friends w/ them if I'm never going to date them. It's one thing if it's a straight girl, but a lesbian, well, the reason why I wanna get to know her is so that maybe someday we can go out.

Oh and like I said, she's not the only gay girl I like. There are other gay girls I like that I do wanna get to know and go out w/. Piercing isn't the last girl on planet earth.

My question was, does anyone have advice for me! That's the question! I mean, what, do I have to say those exact words?

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~Stephanie Gabriella Murray
I'm very gay for being a lesbian, and not gay to be what I'm not

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CoatRack
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quote:
Originally posted by Ste-Funnie:
Also, If I wanna get to know a lez, I do wanna be friends w/ them but I don't wanna be friends w/ them if I'm never going to date them. It's one thing if it's a straight girl, but a lesbian, well, the reason why I wanna get to know her is so that maybe someday we can go out.

So you don't ever want to have any lesbian friends who are just friends? Who you have no sexual or romantic interest in?

A straight male is not sexually attracted to every single female he meets. A straight woman is not sexually attracted to every single male she meets. A gay man is not interested in every male, or even every gay male, that he meets. And lesbians are not necessarily attracted to every other lesbian they meet. That's where friendships come in. It's really nice to have friends who are also somewhere in the LGBTQ alphabet who are JUST friends. It can really, really help when you are feeling isolated, or working through other things that our straight friends and family just wouldn't necessarily have run into in their relationships.

But from what you are saying you only want to get to know this person as a friend in the hopes that she'll turn into something more. In that case? I'd not pursue the friendship because that is unfair to both her and her current partner.

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Hey folks, my name is Andrew and I was a mod here for awhile a couple years ago. I'll be here for a couple weeks while Heather is out and the site is even more short-staffed than usual

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Heather
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If you don't want to get to know someone unless you can date them at some point, you're creating a pretty impossible situation for yourself since a) chances are you won't date most of the people you get to know in life, and b) you can't ever have a guarantee that someone will want to date you. In other words, I don't think that's a very sound strategy for socializing.

But if you want to go with that, then who you can be sure you don't want to invest time getting to know is someone who is already currently in an exclusive relationship, because you know right off the bat that's not someone you'll be dating.

So, with this girl, that'd mean you just don't get to know her and don't need to say anything at all.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Stephanie_1
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Ste-funnie: I really think you’re WAY off board in your response to someone who'se doing so much to try and help you. I’m going to try breaking down responses you’ve made to better demonstrate what is being said and why.
quote:
WHOA!!! Just b/c I hope for something to happen, it doesn't automatically make it come true. It's okay to hope for something. I'm not like that crazy girl in the crucible who tried to make a spell for her crush's wife to die. I don't do witch craft!
Nobody here is suggesting you are a witch or that you can perform some kind of spell to get what you want. Nobody said when you wish for something it’ll come true because you wished it.
quote:
If they wanna break up, they'll do it if they wanna. They prob don't and I do respect that.
Saying you're thinking positively about something is a way of saying you're hoping. For instance, I go into interviews not knowing if I'll get the job, but I use positive thinking IE: I can do this if I work at it. If I focus I can get this job. Which is why CoatRack said what they did about not wanting to be friends with someone "positively thinking" or hoping their relationship with someone they care about would end.
quote:
So I think you should get your facts straight.
I think considering the time CoatRack has dedicated to you and answering so many responses that this really is a VERY snarky response. There's really no reason to snap at them like that (or anyone else here for that matter).
quote:
Plus, I never said that breaking up is positive. I really do feel like ur making me the bad guy! Plus, I can't tell the future. Maybe they'll break up, maybe they won't. Idk!
But again, you said you were using positive thinking in saying they may break up. Again why the response was made that trying to make friends on the basis that they will break up with a partner based on the statistics and thus give you a shot with them just isn't a good way around being friends with someone.
quote:
Also, If I wanna get to know a lez, I do wanna be friends w/ them but I don't wanna be friends w/ them if I'm never going to date them. It's one thing if it's a straight girl, but a lesbian, well, the reason why I wanna get to know her is so that maybe someday we can go out.
This is where I think CoatRack's response fits perfectly from above (So, Andy I hope you don't mine my replacing it down here rather than typing my own response first) "I have noticed that you seem to place a lot on one aspect of a person's identity*. Things might be a little easier for you if you didn't place quite so much emphasis on one part of how a person identifies and instead got to know people as the individuals that they are. (*Examples of when you did this: in this thread saying that you'd never date somebody who was popular, in another thread saying you'd never date somebody who was autistic, and in yet another thread saying that only bisexual people would say "yes" when they meant "no" to you)"

And the newest example is being friends with a person who identifies as lesbian only because you want to have a chance to date her. Which means that based on your own wording that you respect her relationship you can't really be friends with her because it's not very respectful to make friends with someone who is dating someone else on the idea that you'll have a chance to date her.

I also think that it may be a potential area with your looking for support places. It's not like walking into a potential dating pool, it's about making friends and alliances with people that have things in common with you that can help you through some of the rough spots. Sure you may find a partner there, but it's not the main focus of walking through those doors.
quote:
My question was, does anyone have advice for me! That's the question! I mean, what, do I have to say those exact words?
Generally when that's what a poster wants, they simply say "Advice?" or something along those lines. Either way, Andy DID give you advice on your post, so they did as you wanted anyway.
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I must say though, I really do think the responses you've made here (and honestly in quite a few responses you’ve made to staff, volunteers, and users alike at the boards) are pretty off base. There's been quite a lot of time put into responding to various posts from you,and it doesn't seem to make a difference. When you respond back to someone trying to help you, you've cursed at people, back-talked about not being wanted to post something when the request simply was to not post it where it was based on our board guidelines, and made some pretty rude/snarky responses like "So I think you should get your facts straight." As well, your responses seem more argumentative than anything.

When asking for advice, people generally don't spend so much time being argumentative to the advice that's being given or with the people trying to help. We all volunteer our time to answer posts here (and users like Andy/CoatRack have spent a lot of time responding with honestly great responses) just to hear how we're all wrong. I'm not sure if you realize it's what you've been doing or not, so maybe someone needed to point that out.

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"Sometimes the majority only means that all the fools are on the same side" ~Anon

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Ste-Funnie
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Stephanie, listen:

"And the newest example is being friends with a person who identifies as lesbian only because you want to have a chance to date her. Which means that based on your own wording that you respect her relationship you can't really be friends with her because it's not very respectful to make friends with someone who is dating someone else on the idea that you'll have a chance to date her."

I respect her relationship, but I wanna be friends w/ her anyway just incase they break up. That maybe if they broke up, I would have a chance, but idk if they will. I'm not a gypsy.

Also I talked to my mom about this and she said, "It's okay to wish that they break up, as long as you don't act on it". Wishes are feelings. I didn't think you were referring to me as a witch. I think you guys sound like ur referring that I was trying to break them up. I told you I'm too nice to do that and it will ruin my innocence and I would feel so guilty that I can't even look at myself. So all I'm doing is wishing.

Plus, she's not the only gay girl I like. There are other gay + bi girls that I wanna get to know. Not just piercing. I don't even know if they are dating.

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~Stephanie Gabriella Murray
I'm very gay for being a lesbian, and not gay to be what I'm not

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CoatRack
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Then what were you asking for advice on? It seemed like you were asking for advice on whether you should be friends, but then you started talking about how her relationship probably wasn't going to last.

But your mind is made up - you want to be friends with her so that if she breaks up you can try to date her. And what we are saying isn't helping you see it from another point of view.

So, what did you want advice on?

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Hey folks, my name is Andrew and I was a mod here for awhile a couple years ago. I'll be here for a couple weeks while Heather is out and the site is even more short-staffed than usual

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Ste-Funnie
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I needed advice on how I can interact w/ her and try to make friends.

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~Stephanie Gabriella Murray
I'm very gay for being a lesbian, and not gay to be what I'm not

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Heather
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If you're saying you don't want to be friends with her unless you think she'll date you at some point, my best advice is that you don't try to make friends with her, given that agenda, which I don't think is okay, especially if you aren't honest about it with her.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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CoatRack
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Edited because Heather got to it before I did, said it more succinctly than I did, and was more fair than I was.

[ 01-08-2011, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: CoatRack ]

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Hey folks, my name is Andrew and I was a mod here for awhile a couple years ago. I'll be here for a couple weeks while Heather is out and the site is even more short-staffed than usual

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Ste-Funnie
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"If you're saying you don't want to be friends with her unless you think she'll date you at some point, my best advice is that you don't try to make friends with her, given that agenda, which I don't think is okay, especially if you aren't honest about it with her."

Honest about what?

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~Stephanie Gabriella Murray
I'm very gay for being a lesbian, and not gay to be what I'm not

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Heather
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Honest about the fact that -- as you seem to be saying -- you only want to be her friend if she will eventually date you, and in the hopes that being her friend will open a door for you to be able to date her.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ste-Funnie
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You mean, go up to her and tell her "Oh, I'll only be your friend if you at some point break up w/ you girlfriend and date me"? If someone said that to me I wouldn't want anything to do w/ that person. If that's the case, I find it rude to say that to anyone. I'd rather keep it to myself. I mean, idk if that was what you're telling me. Tell me if I'm right or wrong.

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~Stephanie Gabriella Murray
I'm very gay for being a lesbian, and not gay to be what I'm not

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CoatRack
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What Heather is saying is that unless you ARE willing to be honest with her an tell her up front that there are motivations beyond friendship then you should not try to be friends with her because of your desire to date her.

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Hey folks, my name is Andrew and I was a mod here for awhile a couple years ago. I'll be here for a couple weeks while Heather is out and the site is even more short-staffed than usual

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Heather
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In other words, if you knew someone who said they wanted to be your friend didn't really want to be your friend, but was only saying they did to try and make something else happen with you, you wouldn't like that at all, right?

I don't think it's voicing that that was the case that's problematic: it's that BEING the case that would be. But doing that anyone and keeping your real agenda secret from that person is even more so, because it's even more unfair to them.

So, if you don't want to be platonic friends with someone, but instead want to date them, it's not okay to present yourself as only wanting to be their platonic friend because that's dishonest. It's doubly dishonest to do that and also not tell them that's what you're doing.

If you don't want to put someone in that kind of position, and don't want to be dishonest like that, then the answer is not to. Don't ask to be someone's friend or try to be someone's friend whose friend you don't want to be.

Seek out friendship from people with whom you earnestly want to be friends only. If you know what you want is romance/dating, then that's what you seek out from people with whom you want that. If you know or suspect someone you want to date isn't available for dating, but also know that's the only relationship you'd want from them, then you don't seek out anything from them. Make sense?

[ 01-08-2011, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ste-Funnie
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I guess I understand, and maybe I can be honest and tell her, but not the first time I interact w/ her. I don't wanna tell her that if we just met. Like not just sit down and go "hi my name is *** and if you wanna be friends w/ me u have to break up with ur gf and date me at some point". No. I'd rather get to know her and at least step foot in her house, and then tell her how I am. But not in a pushy way. I won't say "I'll only be friends w/ you if some day u dump your gf and date me". I won't say it like a rule. I'll just act a little more like Freddie in iCarly. Only I will handle it maturely.

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~Stephanie Gabriella Murray
I'm very gay for being a lesbian, and not gay to be what I'm not

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Ste-Funnie
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Plus, if I tell her she might think I'm using her and I don't use anyone.

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~Stephanie Gabriella Murray
I'm very gay for being a lesbian, and not gay to be what I'm not

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CoatRack
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Ste-Funnie - I don't think you do understand. I have no idea who "Freddie" is or what iCarly is (I am assuming some movie?) so I don't know how they handled it, but the thing is that I am suggesting, as I believe Heather is, that you do not try to be friends with this girl.

If you have any motivations except for strictly friendship then you are lying if you tell her that you just want to be friends.

I know you said that you aren't going to say "hi my name is *** and if you wanna be friends w/ me u have to break up with ur gf and date me at some point," but if that is how you feel then this will not be a healthy relationship.

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Hey folks, my name is Andrew and I was a mod here for awhile a couple years ago. I'll be here for a couple weeks while Heather is out and the site is even more short-staffed than usual

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Pumpkin_Pie
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Stef-funnie: To be blunt - friends don't hope that their friends' relationships will break-up if that person is happy.

To be friends with this girl only in the hope that she'll break up with her girlfriend is to be underhanded and not particularly nice.

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Ste-Funnie
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[ 01-09-2011, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Stephanie_1 ]

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~Stephanie Gabriella Murray
I'm very gay for being a lesbian, and not gay to be what I'm not

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Heather
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Ste-funnie: several people here have all given you the same advice. I strongly suspect almost anyone who posted here would give the same advice.

Obviously, you get to choose if you're going to take that advice or not, but since I doubt the advice is going to change, and clearly you're not really in agreement with it, I think continuing this particular conversation here isn't a good use of your time or ours.

So, let's leave things where they are, okay? You've heard a bunch of takes on this, know what they are and now just need to choose for yourself what you're going to do.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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