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» Got Questions? Get Answers. » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » LGBTQA Relationships » She is so, Liz. (Page 1)

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Author Topic: She is so, Liz.
moonlight bouncing off water
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Funny I can always describe my male crushes, but now I like Liz (not her real name) and I can't even tell myself how I feel. She is beautiful. She is intelligent. She is one of my friends. She is straight [Frown] . I mean, it could be so good, the two of us, but she doesn't like girls. She is my first acknowledged crush on a girl, but looking back she is not the first.

It's funny though because I like her as a friend too [Smile] and probably more or at least equal to how much I like her as a potential date. I compare myself to her as much as I think about her like that. For example, I don't mean to be vulgar, but she has large breasts, but I wish I could be that big is what comes into my mind most times I see them. I don't even know if I like breasts, I guess the feeling you get about something differs if you have it too.

I don't know what it is about her, she is just so Liz [Big Grin] . Oh and she loves reading too, which is fantastic. I can totally see her and I as a really great couple, but that would never happen. I mean I know she is totally cool with the idea of Lesbians [Cool] , but she has no idea I am bisexual, and I don't think she would ever be a lesbian. She does date guys, but I hold on to the hope that she, like I, is secretly bi.

But she so isn't. Oh well, I guess I will settle for friends. For seeing her at lunch and in one class. For doing that pretend hate thing, but we don't hate each other, for being the other's first choice in the class we share. She is so Liz. I am not in love, I am not head over heels, I just have a crush; but at least when I crush on guys there is the small hope that something could happen some day [Roll Eyes] .

I love her like a friend though, and I would gain nothing, only lose everything, if I messed that up. I guess I want to know, are any of you in similar situations? How do you cope? I so wish she were gay. [Confused] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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Heather
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The thing is, even if she were gay, it doesn't mean she'd want to date you. I'm not saying that to suggest there's anything wrong with you, but because someone having an orientation which might include us just doesn't mean that person will be specifically attracted to/interested in a romantic or sexual relationship with us.

I can't say how important I think it is to bear that in mind, no matter your orientation. If and when we want to be in that kind (or any kind) of relationship with someone is about more than gender, and about more than them meeting any one, single criteria we might have for who we date. I mean,with my own orientation, I could potentially be attracted to everyone of every gender, but that certainly doesn't mean I have romantic or sexual interest in everyone.

So, how do you deal? The same way you would if you had feelings about a straight guy who didn't share your same feelings. It's a bummer, obviously, but that's likely to happen far more than once in everyone's life, and generally, in time, when those feelings aren't returned, they fade pretty painlessly.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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moonlight bouncing off water
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Oh, I know that it wouldn't mean she would want to date me, I guess it is easier to like her though, knowing I will never date her; but if she were interested in women at least there would be the most remote chance she might like me. I am happy as her friend, Liz is amazing and at least I can be her friend. I feel so, sinister though, liking her and not having her know. I feel like I am tricking her in a way, allowing her to believe I am straight, to believe that I don't think about her in that way. And it hurts too when she doesn't realize what she is doing, telling me she is going to the dance with some one, that she doesn't realize that I am jealous of whoever he is. If one of us were a guy, or our school saw homosexuality as a thing as natural as heterosexuality, then I think we might get teased that we were dating, because of how we act. Or maybe I just wish that. But I wish she were my girlfriend, it would be so good to have someone like that, someone so Liz to talk to, to hold, to love.

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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vshanti
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Hi moonlight!

It sounds like you are in a bit of a tough situation; having feelings for a friend, regardless of their sexual orientation, is always a little tricky. Unfortunately, there's no one-size-fits-all solution.

I think you need to do a little soul-searching and figure out what course of action will work for you.

Would you feel comfortable maintaining a friendship with Liz without the expectation that it will become romantic? If the answer is yes, then I'd suggest focusing on the friendship connection you share with her. If it is too painful for you to have a crush on her and not say anything (because of jealousy, and the strain of staying closeted), then you might want to try being honest with Liz. You could be honest that you have feelings for her, and draw certain boundaries, to protect yourself emotionally-- for example, saying that you don't feel comfortable talking about her relationships with guys.

Regardless of whether or not you date, there's no reason why you have to lose Liz as a friend. It sounds like you care about her a lot, and as long as you are upfront with her about your feelings (without expecting her to reciprocate them), you can enjoy the connection you already share.

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Vanessa

I believe in the radical possibilities of pleasure, babe...
I do, I do, I do.


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moonlight bouncing off water
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Oh, I could never tell her, she would be totally freaked out. I wish I could date, her but I could never tell her. It doesn't help that I never see her alone, I see her at Lunch with a group of people and in class around all of our peers. I mean, she is great, but there is no way I could tell her how I feel, plus it would never amount to anything anyway.

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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vshanti
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Hi again moonlight,

If you don't feel comfortable telling her how you feel, that is perfectly okay too. [Smile]

Do you have any friends who identify as bisexual or homosexual? (Does your school have a gay-straight alliance?)I'm just wondering because it might be a good idea to see what support systems and resources are out there, in case you ever need them. [Smile]

Best of luck!

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Vanessa

I believe in the radical possibilities of pleasure, babe...
I do, I do, I do.


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moonlight bouncing off water
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I know two girls who identify as bisexual, but I'm not very close to them, they are in the group I usually eat lunch with, but I never really talk to either of them. They are actually one of the reasons I didn't come out to the people I eat lunch with. I was going to come out, but then they announced they were dating, and I didn't want people to think I was copying them. Unfortunately my school has no GSA, or anything of the sort. I also don't think I could ever talk to either of those girls.

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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moonlight bouncing off water
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Recently I have found myself attracted to numerous people, which is a little strange, I usually only like one person at a time. I guess it might just feel like I like so many more people because now I am acknowledging my female crushes. But I think I like Liz the most.

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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vshanti
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moonlight, I don't think it's strange that you are finding yourself attracted to more people than usual. [Smile] Like you said, now that you're experiencing an attraction to women and allowing for more possibilities, it makes sense that you might experience more attractions. When I first realized that I was queer, I felt the same way-- the world suddenly seemed to expand!

As for coming out, I'm glad you found Scarleteen! This is a great resource. Is coming out something you feel ready for? Do you have other friends who would support you?

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Vanessa

I believe in the radical possibilities of pleasure, babe...
I do, I do, I do.


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moonlight bouncing off water
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That's the thing, I have no idea how they would react. I told my parents I was bisexual, and then I let it slip away and I pretended I wasn't. I am confused because I don't even know if I'm bi anymore. Or maybe I just don't want to be.

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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vshanti
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Hi moonlight,

I'm sorry to hear that you're feeling confused. Like your posts have been indicating, sexual desire isn't necessarily a constant. The whole thing can be pretty confusing, and there really isn't any need to place a concrete label on yourself if you feel like that just doesn't feel right for you at this point in time.

Here is an article that you might find useful:

Living Without Labels

Take care!

[ 11-02-2009, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: vshanti ]

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Vanessa

I believe in the radical possibilities of pleasure, babe...
I do, I do, I do.


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moonlight bouncing off water
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Thanks, I've already read it. I think one of the hardest things is how much I resent the fact that we are straight until proven otherwise. When and if I have children I will not assume they are anything, I think the world would be a much easier place if we came into it understanding that, much like the way we all like different music, we are all different orientations.

The thing about living without a label is that it feels like a kick in the teeth when my friends ask me which GUY I have a crush on, or my dad talks about BOYS and dating, or I imagine myself even if I date women too, in the end falling in love with a man.

It is hard to break free of the stereotypes, but I have to imagine, how on earth would a wedding between two women go? Would they both wear a wedding dress, who would stand at the altar, who would walk down the aisle. If they chose to have children via artificial insemination, how would they decide who would carry the child? How does the sex work? But it would be nice too. To have someone who has gone through some of the same things.

Does the confusion ever stop? It is strange liking women because males look so different, so I can just like them. But when I like a girl, it is so hard to just like her and not be jealous. I think you'll get what I mean, but it makes it confusing. It's weird, and confusing.

A really long time ago I thought I was a lesbian, but then I had a crush on a guy, so I thought I was straight. I had no idea there was an in between. If perhaps my town were larger and there were the remotest chance of me ever having a girlfriend before University or College, or even a boy friend for that matter it might be easier to know. I realize that one or two relationships cannot dictate my orientation but I just wish, Or I wish that society were open enough that I would have no fear of coming out.

I hate this. I don't even know.

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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eryn_smiles
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Hi moonlight,

I also find it really hard when everyone assumes I'm straight and wanting to go out with a guy. And when you're not out or wanting to be out to those people, what do you say, right?

I think with those kind of questions about weddings and children, it can be actually good to be queer, because there isn't really a precedent like for straight people and their marriages. You basically get to discuss with your partner and do what ever feels right for the both of you. I found it helpful to talk to some older queer women, who I met through a group at work (though I know its not easy to meet people when you're not out). One friend of mine has been with her partner for 10 years and has 2 kids with her.

You know, there's such a variety in the ways that people like each other, we can't really call anything strange. What particularly do you feel jealous of, when you like a girl? Why do you think that is?

While it can be quite hard to question your orientation, its certainly not uncommon- that's why its goood to meet people in the same situation once you're able. What makes you feel there isn't a remote chance of having a girlfriend/boyfriend?

Heres a link for you-
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advice/how_do_lesbians_have_sex

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"Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation and that is an act of political warfare."

Audre Lorde

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Heather
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I want to also add in some perspective from an older person.

It might not feel all that buoying right now, but do remember that when you're an adult, you have much more choice about who you surround yourself with.

In other words, you will have at least some measure of choice about where you live and what your community is. I know for myself that while I certainly can't live free of overarching culture and of heterosexism full-stop, I have always chosen to live in queer-friendly cities and communities, and I've spent so many years choosing to primarily be around people that don't think so heterocentrically that sometimes (mind, so much of this being my work, I am exposed to it more than I would be in another field) THAT stuff can sound like it's coming from outer space, or from a much more archaic time in history to me.

And it really, really does help to have your own community, to have circles of friends that are queer or are educated queer allies, and to have a life you construct -- if you choose to -- that really is about you and who you are, rather than about how constantly butting heads with systems that don't include or consider you.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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moonlight bouncing off water
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I am not just jealous when I like a girl, I am jealous when I don't as well. I wish my hair would go like that, oh she is so much prettier than me, I wish I looked like that sort of jealousy. What I mean is, I see her both as a member of the same gender and a person I am interested in, I find the lines between confusing and blurry.

I feel like I won't have a boyfriend or girlfriend because WHO WOULD I DATE? There is literally guys who would like me, that I would like. And there are only 2 girls who like girls, and they are dating, and neither of them are some one I would date.

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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Heather
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(Also? As you get older as a queer person, especially if you do leave your hometown and move somewhere with a larger queer community, your dating pool does get bigger. [Smile] )

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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moonlight bouncing off water
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Good, because right now it is a drop of water, not a pool.

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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moonlight bouncing off water
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At least I can act, er normal around Liz, she was standing SO close to me today it was almost unbearable, but I acted totally, normal. I have a relationship with her like I do with none of my other friends (although are two relationships alike) we tease and shoot petty insults, we say we hate each other in jest.

I think this makes it easier to not tip her off to my feelings because if I feel like I am too, I don't know how to express it, acting flirtatious maybe, I can just say she is the worst person on the planet.

Maybe this is wishful thinking but it almost seems like we flirt, a little bit maybe anyway at least. And, who's to say she is straight? Lots of people aren't right? And lots of them don't come out in High School right? And why couldn't she like me? If only she did, but the odds of that are extremely small, but still there.

--------------------
~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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Heather
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quote:
And, who's to say she is straight?
Nobody but her. So, what does SHE say about her orientation?

By all means, I think there is a balance to be struck here. For sure, I think it's wise to recognize that you never know when someone might have feelings for you. At the same time, there's a certain masochism you want to avoid in getting to attached to the maybes when you have strong feelings for someone they do not seem to share.

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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moonlight bouncing off water
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True, but it is nice to have the remotest possibility of her not being 100% straight. But she for sure dates and likes guys, I know that one for sure. I think that she is straight and not necessarily that it is an inaccurate label, but not one she has considered the other options for. But I have never actually heard her say she was straight, although I am sure it would have come up if she were bisexual or homosexual when she was pretending to one person that she was a lesbian. (It is a long story she broke up with him, he kept asking her out, she was annoyed) But I still have that faint hope, but don't worry I realize how unrealistic it is that one day she will tell me she is bisexual or a lesbian and that she likes me and we will begin dating, or something like that.

I feel almost dishonest liking her, standing close to her, talking and laughing with her, loving every moment of it because I have a huge crush on her, but her thinking I am just another girl, just her friend, not someone secretly crushing on her.

How can I not feel this dishonest?
Why am I not over her, even though I know she will never reciprocate my feelings?
Help.

--------------------
~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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vshanti
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quote:
How can I not feel this dishonest?
If having a platonic friendship with her is making you feel dishonest, then it might be time to be upfront with her about your feelings, and tell her that you'll need a little distance for a while as you get over her.

I think it's important that you not make her feel pressured. Even though you have strong feelings for her, that doesn't mean she will feel the same way.

There's nothing wrong with impossible crushes-- we've all had our fair share. But since she has never expressed any romantic interest in you, it might be best if you take a step back and be realistic about the possibilities of this working out romantically. I understand that it's very frustrating to have limited dating prospects, but that really is something that will change with time. [Smile]

I know this probably isn't the response you are looking for, but I'm not sure what else to say. You've said yourself that you know she will never reciprocate your feelings, and the best thing you can do right now is just take care of yourself, focus on other aspects of your life, and take some pressure off the friendship with Liz.

--------------------
Vanessa

I believe in the radical possibilities of pleasure, babe...
I do, I do, I do.


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moonlight bouncing off water
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The thing is that I really really enjoy the friendship, I would never want to take a break from it, although this may be because of my crush. But I could never tell her. Even if for a moment telling her were on the table, why would it make sense? Of course there is the small possibility that it could mean she and I would start dating but lets be realistic. It would mess up our friendship and I would have no idea how to act around her. Plus I don't see her all that often any way. (Lunch and French) I just love her. I am not in love with her don't get me wrong, I love her as a friend, the way I love my other friends, this is mixed in with a confusing blur of a crush. I just feel like I am keeping something major, that a friendship at this limited level should still have an openness about. Perhaps if she knew I were queer... But I am not ready to come out yet. Oh that is another reason not to tell her, it involves her knowing I am bisexual, which in all reality I am not ready for anyone to know. (I am even trying to make my parents un-know it) But Elisabeth is just so Elisabeth that I can't even find a better phrase than that to express the way I am feeling. (I have gievn up a pretend name, if she goes to this site she will have figured it out by now that it is me, but she acted normal today, so she didn't) Sigh, Elisabeth! [Confused]

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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moonlight bouncing off water
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I guess I need to embrace being Bisexual and having a crush on Elisabeth that will never have anything come of it.

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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vshanti
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It seems to me that accepting yourself is always the way to go [Smile] Although your orientation/the way you identify may change over the course of your life, embracing your bisexuality/your potential for same-sex attraction/whatever you want to call it can only be a good thing. Best of luck to you, moonlight!

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Vanessa

I believe in the radical possibilities of pleasure, babe...
I do, I do, I do.


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moonlight bouncing off water
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I told my friend that I like Elisabeth! Infact, I think this girl's my best friend. Oh my god it was the best thing I could do, I am ecstatic! I was sleeping over at her house (for 2 nights) and in the morning we were walking and I kept trying to get her to guess, so eventually, at some point in the day, I told her that the name was in the first part of the alphabet. I guess she could see how I was brimming to tell her so she gave up on guessing.

So flash forward to the next night and we are laying in bed and I tell her I am contemplating telling her, so I manage to convince her to guess the letter of the first name, eventually she stumbled upon E. I mustered up all my courage, took a deep breath and said simply "Elisabeth, I'm bi". She was so accepting. It feels so good to have someone to talk to, and she will talk to me and I am so glad. She said she feels so trusted, and I see what people mean about this making their relationship a lot closer, I think that will be the effect on ours. I have someone to talk to! This feels so great!

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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moonlight bouncing off water
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I feel now like shouting it from the rooftops, but that's probably not such a great idea just yet, besides not everyone will react in the ideal way my best friend (at least I thinks she's my best friend) did. Besides one confidant is enough for now. But I truly feel amazing. (P.S. Sorry about double posting, I just feel so good)

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~moonlight

I am ME and that is the only label I need.

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moonlight bouncing off water
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I can't talk to Elisabeth anymore, or rather I am self-conscious when I do so. As an example at Semi last Friday she was joking about how I was a Lesbian and I liked her. I mean it was a joke, she had no idea of just how close she had come, but ever since then I have been really guarding myself when I talk to her. I don't know how to react. I think it is clicking in her mind that our friendship is a little off-key. Today she said something to the effect of I am not usually hanging off her so much. I have no idea what she meant, I guess just the way I was acting. And something about the smile that crossed Gaby's face today at lunch when Elisabeth and I were playing tug of war with her lunch kit(she started it [Wink] ). I think I may have imagined it but now, as much as I like having Gaby know I am self-conscious. I know this is arising because Elisabeth is a girl, I just know it. I am screwing up. I have no idea how to act around her anymore, this "crush" is affecting our friendship. I don't want to tell her or stop hanging out with her when I normally do, I just want a solution. Maybe I will discuss this with Gaby, but any advice you can give would help.

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~moonlight

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Heather
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Is it possible this isn't about you doing anything wrong, but maybe being about Elizabeth not being as great a person as you thought?

In my book, homophobic jokes really aren't cool. And it sounds like some of the things she has said to you haven't been so nice.

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moonlight bouncing off water
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No, she was teasing. She didn't mean it negatively and I get where you are coming from but that is nothing about her character. It isn't even that she is not being nice, it is that I am unable to react. She was only teasing and well, I don't think that is it. She is defiantly no homophobe she was only making a joke at how I was acting having no idea how close she was.

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~moonlight

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Heather
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Here's the thing, though: that's still a slur. Would she have teased a male friend calling him straight if he was affectionate? No.

In other words, when someone behaves like that they are NOT being queer-friendly. And if it wasn't a slur, and a person didn't see someone being lesbian as different than being straight, it wouldn't be considered a joke at all, nor would someone tease with it.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Heather
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And on that note, I just tweeted a newer GLSEN initiative that addresses what I'm talking about very well: http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com/

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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moonlight bouncing off water
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I guess, I just don't want to totally discount her as a person just because she said one thing once. But you are right it is pretty rotten. Although on that note while she would not have teased a male friend about being straight she likely would tease him that he liked her or someone else. The point is she meant no harm.

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~moonlight

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Heather
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I didn't suggest you do that, merely that you consider this may not just be about how YOU are behaving, or your fault, but about someone who you seem to put on a pedastal not being as perfect as you've thought of her as. You came in here full of self-blame, I was inviting you to consider that Miss Perfect simply may -- especially as you are getting to know her, as is typical with crushes or when we hold people up as perfect -- not be, and that SHE is responsible for her words, not you.

And?

quote:
I mean I know she is totally cool with the idea of Lesbians
Someone who teases like that? Usually isn't.

I really don't buy that people who make slurs about orientation mean no harm. I understand that homophobia is rampant enough that people, especially young people, can just be careless, but I also think that if and when we make a certain joke about a certain group we're not a member of and either don't take seriously or think less of, we do know what we're doing. If she meant to tease, teasing all by itself is not a harmless endeavor in the first place.

[ 11-09-2009, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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moonlight bouncing off water
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I suppose you are right; it doesn't make it any easier to have this crush be 800x more confusing since she is a girl. I don't know where the difference between my actions because I like her and my actions because I am her friend lies. I look at her and I see someone I like, but someone I envy. I mean she is so self assured, not cocky, confident. I think I have been pegging her as perfect when in reality we are all far from it. This is hard to allow myself to feel but it is true, we all get to a point where we realize that so and so did not react in exactly the way we wanted and it hurts, but we move on. I just want to get over her, I will never be more than her friend, so why can't I just accept that? this is so weird it feels so different from how I like males.

[ 11-09-2009, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: moonlight bouncing off water ]

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~moonlight

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Heather
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Well, it can feel different, and some of that likely has to do with the fact that most girls are strongly socialized TO have sexual/romantic feelings for men. In other words, most of us were prepared, ad nauseum, for those feelings, and some of how we experienced and enacted them can feel typical or more comfortable because it's what we expect.

But I also think we might consider that having strong feelings for someone who isn't reciprocating them or who might not welcome them also feels very different from having them for someone who does, or who we think might welcome them.

From what you say, it's sounding to me like some of this isn't just about having sexual/romantic feelings for her, but a friend-crush: in other words, really wanting to be LIKE her, idolizing her, putting her on a pedestal, wanting to BE her. And I do imagine that's all got to feel like a mighty confusing mix!

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me • Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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