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Author Topic: to tell, or not to tell?
BelleMorte
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I'm bisexual, more attracted to females, though. I've only told two of my guy friends so far, and they have been really supportive of me. Most of my friends, and family, however, are religious conservatives, and are very ignorant, and homophobic.

Today I went to my school's GSA, and my mom called me a lesbian (like it were an insult), and said that I'm going to burn in Hell because I went.

I don't know what to do! Any advice is welcome.

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"Ne donne un baiser, ma mie, que la bague au doigt" -Méphistophélès from Faust (Don't give a kiss, my sweetheart, until the ring is on your finger)

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Heather
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Oh, Belle. I'm so sorry. It's so hard to deal with that crap.

Are you dating right now? If you're not, I'd say that since your orientation is going to be largely academic to anyone but you, that given,. that considering your general community and family, it's probably going to be most comfortable and positive for you to be less, rather than more, out right now.

P.S. I bet the circle of hell where lesbians go to burn has awesome drum circles, plenty of marshmallows for roasting and a really killer pot luck. Might help to have that mental image in mind next time someone lobs that particular barb your way. [Big Grin]

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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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BelleMorte
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hahaha! I hope it does!

Thanks for the advice. I'm not in a relationship right now... but there is a girl that I really like...

I have been trying to be more in than out of the closet... I told them that I want to the GSA meeting to support (a make-believe) friend who was questioning, and wanted me to go with her.

Of course they had a long talk with me about how it's wrong, and if my friend is in fact a lesbian, she's going to Hell, and they made an appiontment to talk with my youth pastor about it. And they actually said something about it being her choice, and if she really loves God, she wouldn't like girls, which is completely untrue!

I really hate lying to them, but I think it would be worse if I didn't....

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"Ne donne un baiser, ma mie, que la bague au doigt" -Méphistophélès from Faust (Don't give a kiss, my sweetheart, until the ring is on your finger)

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Heather
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Well, if "God" or any of his self-assigned personal representatives think there's something wrong with ANYONE loving ANYONE, they need to all start reading their own books a bit more thoroughly.

hang in there, Belle. Think of the fine campfire. [Smile]

And I'd say that it's wise for you to play it as you are: like I said, unless you're dating, it's academic to anyone else, and it's pretty clear that otherwise, being out right now is going to cause you more grief than joy.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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BelleMorte
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Thanks!

I hate it that people say the Bible says it's wrong for two people to love each other, no matter what their orientaion! Most people I've talked to use out-of-context verses to support this, it really makes me cranky... [Mad]

And yes, I have been thinking about the lovely campfire! [Smile]

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"Ne donne un baiser, ma mie, que la bague au doigt" -Méphistophélès from Faust (Don't give a kiss, my sweetheart, until the ring is on your finger)

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origami_jane
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My argument is that if homosexuality was such a hot topic, why didn't Jesus ever speak about it? Look in the New Testament gospels. No mention of homosexuality. (Of course, we've established that the NT gospels weren't the only ones written at the time. Those four bookies were chosen by some Roman/Greek guy around 100 AD. Completely ignored the Gnostic gospels, etc.)

Paul talks about it a lot, but nobody would ever dream of practicing Paul's level of anti-Semitism today, nor insist that women remain absolutely silent, so I figure he was just an all-around hateful guy. But that's just my take on it.

</theology and biblical history>

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daria319
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My roommate swears there's something in Acts that condemns homosexuality. Forgive my memory lapse, but is Acts NT or OT? (Recovering from some serious stress, so my mind is hazy.)[A new roommate moved in to take the place of the old scary one about 2-3 weeks ago.]

She's made similar comments, although she admits to being attracted to girls. She keeps saying "I'm a Christian, so that's not right for me." Then, she starts up the whole It's wrong, blah blah blah crap. A good number of her friends are not straight. It's been explained to her (multiple times) that I am not straight, and one of my other roommates has yet to pin down her sexual preferences yet. We're both VERY offended by comments like that, and personally I'm tired of people who call themselves my friends intentionally saying things they KNOW will hurt my feelings.

Sorry if I got off on a rant, but I'm just trying to say you're not alone. Plenty of us are going through similar stuff -- sometimes it's hard not to either cry or scream at someone.

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"You owe me two lifetimes and a pair of perfect blue eyes."

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BelleMorte
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Yeah, I used to tell myself that: "I'm a Christian, if I really loved God, I wouldn't feel this way..."

But then I had an epiphony, God doesn't hate gays! And Paul, you have to look at the historical context, at that time, no one understood sexuality, they thought that anything other than heterosexuality was chosen behaviour, wrong, and able to be changed at will.

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"Ne donne un baiser, ma mie, que la bague au doigt" -Méphistophélès from Faust (Don't give a kiss, my sweetheart, until the ring is on your finger)

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origami_jane
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daria,

Yes, there's things in Acts, Corinthians.... but those are all Paul's writings in the New Testament. They aren't the gospels.

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daria319
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quote:
Originally posted by origami_jane:
daria,

Yes, there's things in Acts, Corinthians.... but those are all Paul's writings in the New Testament. They aren't the gospels.

Thanks -- I don't have a single book left in my apartment (from packing) so I couldn't check anything before I posted. I honestly couldn't remember much of anything last night.

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"You owe me two lifetimes and a pair of perfect blue eyes."

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Heather
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Yeah, Paul's a pretty big dope. I've never met a single Biblical scholar -- including the two heads of Theology at Northwestern U. when I was in school, who came to Blake birthday parties we'd have with my prof at my college because they were also Blake scholars -- who put much stock in ANYTHING he had to say. The credibility of a clear bigot on a handful of counts tends to be more than a little limited in a religious tradition whose major tenet is supposed to be about tolerance and love.

And, of course, if a woman wants to use Paul to support her homophobia, he himself effectively said that women shouldn't be talking about religion at all ("Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak" - Corinthians).

So.

[ 04-26-2006, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Miz Scarlet ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Ikeren
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Hahahaha, that is beautiful. I'll keep that in mind.

What about Leviticus 18:22?

(see http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/drlaura.asp for reference)

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19, male, interested in Sadomasochism (BDSM) and some bisexual tendancies.

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Heather
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That was a highly entertaining -- and really apt - letter there. [Smile]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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BelleMorte
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Ikeren, if you look at my version, King James (the coolest!) it says something to the effect of "thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is detestable."

If you look at the background, the reason that is there is because the Hebrews thought it was disgraceful for a man to submit himself to another man, and that he lost his masculinity if he did that. Notice how it says nothing about lesbians, or gay guys who do not have sex...

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"Ne donne un baiser, ma mie, que la bague au doigt" -Méphistophélès from Faust (Don't give a kiss, my sweetheart, until the ring is on your finger)

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Heather
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...and look at what that is also saying, essentially, about the feminization of men. In other words, what's seriously not okay there is for men to act like women, given we're (supposed to be) sexually (and in many other charming ways) submissive.

Per most of the Bible, women are, at best, redeemable, but ultimately, sinful and in need of serious watching, because, you know... we tempt, we taint, we're unclean, et cetera.

More on Levictus and homosexuality here -- http://www.christiangay.com/he_loves/lev_18.htm -- and here -- http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2003/familyfundamentals/special_chapter_3.html -- and here -- http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh.htm

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About MeGet our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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daria319
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quote:
Originally posted by BelleMorte:
Ikeren, if you look at my version, King James (the coolest!) it says something to the effect of "thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is detestable."

If you look at the background, the reason that is there is because the Hebrews thought it was disgraceful for a man to submit himself to another man, and that he lost his masculinity if he did that. Notice how it says nothing about lesbians, or gay guys who do not have sex...

You know, someone pointed out one time that if you move the comma in that verse, the entire meaning gets changed and it sounds like it's supporting ONLY lesbian sex. Just thought I'd toss in an amusing tidbit.

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"You owe me two lifetimes and a pair of perfect blue eyes."

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BelleMorte
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daria, sorry, I don't see it... could you write it out?

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"Ne donne un baiser, ma mie, que la bague au doigt" -Méphistophélès from Faust (Don't give a kiss, my sweetheart, until the ring is on your finger)

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daria319
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"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is detestable."

It's a stretch, I admit. Someone could also say that lying with mankind(ie anyone having sex with a man) is detestable, as are women. Of course, that's a pretty unfair interpretation as well.

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"You owe me two lifetimes and a pair of perfect blue eyes."

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BelleMorte
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O, I see it! Yeah, now that you say it, I can't really see how I missed it....

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"Ne donne un baiser, ma mie, que la bague au doigt" -Méphistophélès from Faust (Don't give a kiss, my sweetheart, until the ring is on your finger)

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daria319
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I live with a bunch of English majors, so moving commas around to totally change the meaning of stuff happens ALOT here. It's turned into a bit of a prank.

Isn't it amazing how much of a difference one mark can make? Some translations could be completely erroneous because of an ink splotch or a misspelled/misread word. Also, it's been said that many ancient languages weren't big on punctuation like we are, so tons of things in many religious texts could be completely backwards. It blows my mind to think how different things would be if the Bible had been translated/revised differently.

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"You owe me two lifetimes and a pair of perfect blue eyes."

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likewhoa19
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yeah, I just realized that the other day when I was thinking back over bible verses (gag! i know, I only know them b/c my parents TRIED to raise me Christian and I went to bible study when I was little). It's not a sin in the bible to be a lesbian. Only sodomites are sinning. (And all men who masturbate or have wet dreams, of course). And then I learned there are 2 clubs in Boston called "Heaven" and "Hell." And Heaven is the gay club and Hell is the lesbian club, and I thought this was hilarious so I said to my friend "Isn't that backwards?" So morale of the story, Belle, is graduate from HS and move to Massachusetts, so you can go to Hell and tell your parents they were right. ;P

[ 04-28-2006, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: likewhoa19 ]

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BelleMorte
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wow, I should go there! That would be hilarious!

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"Ne donne un baiser, ma mie, que la bague au doigt" -Méphistophélès from Faust (Don't give a kiss, my sweetheart, until the ring is on your finger)

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LetMeBeHappy
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Hey Belle!
Hope everything's going well for you. I was reading through your topic and the replies and it made me think (for once) : If God created us all, for example myself, then God made me bi (if that makes any sense outside of my own head) so therefore God won't be angry at you and won't send you to hell. Hey am not very sure about Christianity and what christians believe in, so i'm sorry if what i'm writing is a load of rubbish. I'm frightened of hell because my gf is a catholic and believes she's going to burn in hell (at the fine campfire for lesbians [Razz] ), which scared me a bit. So before I began rambling off-subject I was saying, that if you and I are God's creations then God made us what we are. I hope there's someone else out there who get's what i'm saying, coz after reading this back - i won't.

Luv Ash.

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BelleMorte
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Hey LetMeBeHappy,

I understand completely what you're saying. That's what I think about homosexuality, and bisexualty. God created us this way, so why should He punish us for being how He made us?

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"Ne donne un baiser, ma mie, que la bague au doigt" -Méphistophélès from Faust (Don't give a kiss, my sweetheart, until the ring is on your finger)

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