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» Got Questions? Get Answers. » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » LGBTQA Relationships » Shows that are so..."gay"? (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Shows that are so..."gay"?
Tabbykitty
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I'm just wondering what you think about shows on Tv like Will and Grace and the way they portray homosexuals. My best friend is gay and we go to a really christian high school in kind of a backwater city. That means he doesn't have a whole lot of gay role models. While i think its great that homosexuals are shown in such a good light, he looks at these shows and thinks that since he's gay, he has to act all girly and only have one night stands and know absolutely everything about fashion. Things that aren't really him.
Also, does anyone have any advice for helping him to find more realistic role models?

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"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."


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smittenkitten
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My personal favourite (confirmed) gay TV character is "Original Cindy" from Dark Angel. She's very sure of herself and doesn't fall into the "butch & leather" stereotype. The biggest giveaway is when she's hanging Xena posters in her room!

I like to think Agent Reyes from the X-Files is lesbian/bi, but I don't know for sure. She has called Scully beautiful, and isn't afraid to be herself. I think she and Scully would make a great couple, so I'm a bit biast towards her being gay.

I think homosexuals get a fair write up in most shows on TV today (with the exception of South Park), and if the character falls flat due to stereotype, I feel the writers intentions were good.

Hugs & Scully,
Winnie :0)


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Dzuunmod
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Hey Tabbykitty, if you can get your friend watching Queer as Folk (In Canada, it's on Monday nights on Showcase) he'll see a fairly wide variety of gay characters. Some of them are interested in one night stands (Brian) and others act pretty girly (Emmett), but there are some who seem fairly manly and want long-term relationships.

By the way, I wouldn't call Edmonton a backwater town. I don't know it as well as you probably do, but my impression of it is that it is pretty tolerant for a city of its size - and it's definitely more tolerant, than, say Calgary, just to your south.

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My God can beat up your God.
-Weights and Measures

[This message has been edited by Dzuunmod (edited 12-30-2001).]


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kythryne
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While I personally adore Will & Grace, I know it's horribly campy and stereotypical. So shoot me.

I've watched the Ellen Show (the new one, not the one that got kicked off tv a few yeasrs ago) a bit, and I liked the way they're handling Ellen's queerness. It's there, but I think the show does a good job of not harping on it every ten seconds.

I don't watch much tv, so I'm stumped at this point...

Kyth

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Kythryne
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Hotbuttered101
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Ooh, ooh...'Original Cindy' kicks ass. I totally agree. I wish they would delve more into her life though. You often see her commenting on a hot girl but nothing ever happens.Very Frustrating...grrrr.

As for gay role models besides Will and Grace, Dark Angel, and Queer as folk, there are quite a few. Often in movies or TV shows you'll come a cross a gay character. The gay character will just be like any other character which is good because their homosexuality shouldn't be harped on. For instance, Bad Girls, Legally Blond, Head Over Heels...The truth is they're all over.

The best gay role models, in my opinion, are the 'real' ones. People like Melissa Ethridge, Kd Lange, Ellen, Tammy Lynn Michaels...The list goes on.

I suggest you tell your friend that he doesn't need to prove himself to be gay. If he's gay...He's gay. Acting camp isn't going to change anything. Out of interest, what does he have to say about it?


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smittenkitten
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Oh, I think Rupert Everett was great in "My Best Friends Wedding".

He's "gay" without all those damn stereotypes.

Hugs & Scully & Reyes,
Winnie :0)


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Pumpkin_Pie
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Did anyone see Kerry and Kim in er? I thought they were the cutest lesbian couple ever and they certainly didn't conform to stereotypes. I suppose I'm biased because I think Kim is a babe!
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rainbow_brite
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Hey...
if you want good role models on TV, I like queer as folk too!

if you want some "real life" role models...here are a few:

Melissa Etheridge, k. d. lang, Greg Louganis, Oscar Wilde, Audre Lorde, James Baldwin, Martina Navratilova, Pete Townshend, Michelangelo, Truman Capote, John Maynard Keynes, Barney Frank, Leonardo daVinci, Rita Mae Brown, Elton John, Ellen DeGeneres, Adrienne Rich, Tchaikovsky, RuPaul, Gore Vidal, Sandra Bernhard, George Gershwin, Tennessee Williams, Virginia Woolf, Frieda Kahlo, David Geffen.....

hope that gets you started ok!

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Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds. - Bob marley


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Pumpkin_Pie
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How could I forget Willow and Tara from Buffy?
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glitter695
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Hay! I loveeeeeeeee Will and Grace, it is so funny. I watch it with my mother sometimes, shes loves it too.

Its on tonighT, but dammit I have to work!!!
Friends is on too, and I am going to miss it, it was supposted to be a good one.
::cries::
BOOHOOINS!! WHY DO I ALWAYS HAVE TO WORK THURSDAYS!!!!!

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*~*~12/3/99*~*
Bobaroony & Erica Bearica
<3 love forever!

*~*Scarleteen Advocate*~*

“One ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” Heather Corinna


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Ginger69
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i have a list to name a few: Susan & Carol -Friends; Original Cindy(of course) -Dark Angel; Kerri & Kim -E.R.;i absoluty love Queer As Folk really good show; Rupert Everett -My Best Friends Wedding & The Next Best Thing; althoug, i have not gotten a chance to catch "Will & Grace" or "Ellen" i have heard its good; a great london movie "Beautiful Thing" is really good; Willow & Tara -Buffy the Vamp. Slayer; Jack on Dawson's Creek. There are lots more i'm sure, but i either can't remember them right now or i have discovered them yet. I will eventually. hope that helps.

Blessed Be,
Ginger

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~*..because when your stuck in a dark tunnel, with no way out,
you need someone to shine a light on things...*~^~Ginger(me)


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Dude_who_writes
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I totally agree with you Kyth -- Will and Grace is extremely stereotypical... but I love it anyway (hey, so what if I'm secrectly aspiring to become more like Karen, bitchy and self-possessed).

Honestly, I can't think of any one show/movie that has real gay/bi characters. It's almost as though most TV shows (with a few exceptions) feel that they have to have a token gay/bi character, and opt out by making them stereotypes.

I think that you really need to create your own ideals and rolemodels that you want to live up to, not feel like you have to meet some type of mold that's preestablished.

Those are my 2 cents, anyway.

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Tim

"Read the Bible again sometime. Women are painted as bigger antagonists than the Egyptians and Romans combined. It stinks." --"Serendipity," Dogma

Jane knows Connie; she doesn't care to know Dick.


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TenohSetsuna
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Maybe this is unhelpful, but he should really try some anime. A lot of anime has gay/bi/whatever the hell characters. Though I'm warning you, they're villians sometimes. Some of them are stereotyped, like Nuriko from Fuushigi Yugi, some aren't, like almost anyone from CLAMP's work. CLAMP does a lot of shounen ai mixed with violence, so I love their stuff to pieces. Because I mentioned anime, I've got to mention manga(comic books). Once again, almost all of CLAMP's stuff(not Magic Knights Rayearth, Cardcaptors Sakura is more subtle), especially X(which is really blatant and has incredibly hot personages as main characters), sold as X/1999 in the US. You can find them on Amazon.com. Try the manga called A, A' [A, A Prime], which is really cool because its all this stuff about some guy whose chromosones change randomly and how it ties into this weird race called the Unicorns. I think it's sweet, but then I have a soft spot. *shrug* That was way too long.

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I don't want eternity. But Arashii is mine.

"I never said I was a boy." - Tenoh Haruka, episode 92, Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon


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Rizzo
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Hey Tenoh, I agree. Anime tends to have lots of gay, bisexual, and gender-bending characters. Some of my favourites are Ranma (a boy who changes into a girl when splashed with water) and Haruka (Sailor Uranus) and Michiru (Sailor Neptune). Sailor Uranus is so hot (tee hee, I'm a nerd).
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TenohSetsuna
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Haruka! My namesake, you know. Well, my nickname's namesake. *shrug* Ranma is good, but he really stays the same as a person, just uses his girl's body to get stuff, like food, favors, etc. Of course there's the on going joke that Akane likes girl type Ranma. I have to put in another plug for A, A' [A, A Prime]. The guy randomly switches sex because of some weird genetic thing(long story...), his dad was sort of married to a man(another long story), his boyfriend is bi, straight, gay, kind of undetermined... And the whole Unicorn thing is really cool. I loved that manga.

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I don't want eternity. But Arashii is mine.

"I never said I was a boy." - Tenoh Haruka, episode 92, Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon


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Dr_Weavers_Girl
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Um, first I'm new. Second, it's not a 'gay' show but ER is addressing the concept of being female, in an administrative potsition and lesbian through Dr. Weaver who is currently finding her self. I think there potrail of her is really good and I personally admier her (and not because she's cute either) but because she is facing the problem and her second relationship (despite how short) was initiated by her.
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Sh!mmeR!ng*staR
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not to sound rascist, but Original Cindy is the black chick on Dark Angel right??

and i looooooove Haruka. i think I'm beginning to have a sort of fangirl obsession with her. whenever i see her in the manga or anime I kinda sigh and go "'aruka-saaaaan~" lol. it's fun -.^

For other lesbians in anime, there's Michiru of course (although there's speculation she's actually bi), and Utena from Revolutionary Girl Utena. actually, i don't know if Utena's a lesbian or not, but the marriage with Anthy is a good indicator. plus she's butch, kinda. and she looks DAMN good in a boy's uniform, heh.

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Prosperity that
the golden Muses
gave me was no
delusion: dead, I
won't be forgotten
-Sappho


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TenohSetsuna
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Perchance I'm veering off topic, but I had to respond.

>>For other lesbians in anime, there's Michiru of course (although there's speculation she's actually bi)

If you're refering to the SailorStars episode where she flirts with Seiya, she was doing so in order to get information from him. I've heard people say that they always figured Michiru was straight and then just fell in love with Haruka. That sounds rather... strange to me. She's so insecure that I think she grew up in a house where she was pressured to suceed, and then liking girls was just more pressure, since she had to keep it quiet. My theory, anyway.

>>and Utena from Revolutionary Girl Utena. actually, i don't know if Utena's a lesbian or not

Anime and manga Utena are basically straight(prince-obsessed, Touga, etc.), though I think she really does like Anthy, but not girls in general. I'm sure that makes no sense to people who've never seen the show. Movie Utena, on the other hand, is a lesbian, no two ways about it. Heck, she and Anthy weren't wearing too much in that one scene when... agh, PG-13 guidelines.

>>but the marriage with Anthy is a good indicator.

She's engaged to Anthy since she's the victor of the Rose Duels. Not married to her. And she hasn't got any choice about it. If she loses the duels then Anthy will go back to Sanjoii or someone else who'll abuse her constantly.

>>plus she's butch, kinda. and she looks DAMN good in a boy's uniform

She certainly does. "I'm a perfectly ordinary girl who just wants to be a perfectly ordinary boy."---Tenjou Utena

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I don't want eternity. But Arashii is mine.

"I never said I was a boy." - Tenoh Haruka, episode 92, Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon


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-Jill
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[still off-topic]
TenohSetsuna:
Why don't you head on over to It's All About You and create an anime thread? You've made subtle hints about enjoying it and it looks like you're not alone. I'd do it myself but I know nothing about it. This way you guys can talk without worrying about steering the thread into somewhere it wasn't intended to go.

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TwistedPyroGirl
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QAF is such a cool show. I totally love Emmett. What's cool, is that yeah, there is some sex, and they talk about being gay, but the show doesn't harp on it. They throw it in at the right moments. It is so HYSTERICAL. I like Will and Grace too..Tell your friend, that if he has to act a 'certain' way, to be gay, then maybe he isn't gay at all. I know a guy, who says he is gay, but five minutes later he is bi....Then back to gay...Who knows, for him, it could be some sort of attention thing. And maybe it is for this guy too. You shouldn't have to try at being who you are.

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~**Pamela**~


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Pumpkin_Pie
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I don't think its a case of acting a certain way to be gay, I think its more that her friend feels that because he is gay, other people expect him to act a certain way. And just because someone switches between gay and bi doesn't mean its an attention thing and I do find that remark quite offensive as I was a "changer" for a long time. This isn't the kind of decision that you make overnight you know!
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CuteyAngel17
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Hi All! I just wanted to say that I know exactly how ya feel. I, myself, am a lesbian, and have been in a long-term relationship, and I personally HATE one-night stands. I think it's really dumb that gay men are stereotyped as "fairies" and lesbian women are either "butch or sluts who belong in pronos." I know ALL of quite MANLY gay men, and quite UNSLUTY and NOT BUTCH lesbians. My girlfriend and I are BOTH quite girly, thank you, and we both don't approve of sleeping-around.

Anyway...have you ever heard of a movie called "But, I'm a Cheerleader?" It's really cool! It's about a girl who is thought to be gay, so her parents send her away to live in a rehab center for gays. (They rehabilitate them and turn them straight)And she ends up coming to terms with who she is and finding someone she loves there. It's a comedy/romance. And it's mine and my gf's favorite movie. It's great! ^_^ Try watching it.


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Dzuunmod
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I gotta disagree, Twisted.

Queer As Folk is all about gay. Without gay, the show doesn't exist. It does harp on the subject. As someone else once pointed out, the characters in that show are totally isolated in their own gay world, and whenever they go out into the straight world, it's horrible, terrible, God get me out of there!

Justin was bashed, Vic was arrested by a straight cop, Michael's experience with his co-workers friends was a very overdone parody of het life, Ted was fired for looking at gay porn, while workers who look at straight porn get away with it...need I go on? In fact, it seems like the only straight characters that are given positive roles on the show are the ones who make gay activism an important part of their lives (Mike's mom, and Daphne).

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I want to break my legs just so I won't forget to be nice to you.
-Moneen

[This message has been edited by Dzuunmod (edited 03-03-2002).]


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TenohSetsuna
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>>Queer As Folk is all about gay. Without gay, the show doesn't exist. It does harp on the subject.

Agreed. It's part of how it stays on the air. Quite frankly, people are fascinated by gay subculture. And so they watch shows like Will and Grace and Queer as Folk. No constant talk about gays? No show. Sorry.

About a year ago, Newsweek ran an article about TV shows and how they rated them on the dumb and risque scale, from 1-10. Every "gay" show, even if it was pretty much your average show with gay main characters, was rated more risque than if it had straight main characters. On average, the "gay" shows were also rated more highly on the dumb scale. Interesting.

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I don't want eternity. But Arashii is mine.

"I never said I was a boy." - Tenoh Haruka, episode 92, Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon


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BlackRoseFaery
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I love Will and Grace!! It's my favorite show. I mean, if you want to take the stereotype the other way, then most movies show the "stereotypical" heterosexual. It's just TV. It's not that big a deal.
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ice_magick
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Hey yall, newbie here. My biggest gay/lez role models are Martina Navratilova and Rudy Galindo (figure skater). Sure the guy is effeminate, but I'd like to see anyone wwho gaybashes figure skaters do a triple jump!!
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scarletbloodUK
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Going back to the Utena thing, you guys, I haven't seen the TV series, but I've read the first manga novel and seen the movie, (which is gorgeous, by the way). Utena and Anthy are both definitely in love, and both definitely bi, in the movie at least, because they so fall in love during that scene beneath the stars, and Utena also seems to have the hots for Touga in the rose garden scene. Is the series any different? I haven't seen it.
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KandyKorn17
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Haha, don't EVEN get me started on Will & Grace! I've had this argument with ALL my friends... and I think it's like 3 steps back for all gay people... It's like for the longest time, when the world was starting to accept homosexuality, every gay person on tv had to be so ridiculous and funny, which to me says "oh being GAY is ridiculous and funny!"

But most of my gay friends disagree. They think the show is hilarious, and think I'm just looking for one more thing in this world to protest...


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Funnybunny04
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I have to agree... Will and Grace is horribly campy, but it's sooo funny. Jack is the stereotypical gay guy, but you really can't tell with Will. I don't think every gay guy on the face of the planet likes Cher though...
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Sunset_Rose
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I think that sometimes people take programmes like Will and Grace a bit too seriously... Yeah, not every gay man loves Cher, but we all know that!
I love the show personally, because its funny! It makes me laugh, and I enjoy watching it. I really can't see why just because a show has gay characters and humour that leads to the conclusion
"oh being GAY is ridiculous and funny!"
I honestly don't think that people see it that way.

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fly_little_wing
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Hey, did anyone know that Megan Mullaly (sp?) who plays Karen on Will and Grace is actually bi? I thought that was really cool and I just found that out today. Megan's on the cover of Out magazine. If you're a W&G fan you should check it out because there's some great pictures of Megan, a nice article where she talks about her bisexuality, how her fiance feels about it, and moments on the show, and a really cool countdown of the Top 5 Gayest Moments from the show!

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And now she's walking through the clouds with a circus mind that's running wild. ~ Butterflies and zebras and moonbeams and fairytales. ~ All she ever thinks about is riding with the wind. ~ When I'm sad she comes to me. ~ With a thousand smiles she gives to me, free. ~ 'It's alright, it's alright' she says. 'Take anything you want from me. Anything.'


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twiceagainyesterday
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Will & Grace is a comedy. Jack is a living, breathing stereotype, yes.

Will, however, is a normal guy who happens to be gay. He has his stereotypical moments, too, but far less so than Jack.

I think that, while Will is helping things along, Jack is pushing them back.


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w1lmaw0nka
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I'd have to agree that Will and Grace is far too sterotyplical for me.
What I did want to mention was some kick ass gay cinema.
-The Incredibly True Story of Two Girls in Love
-If These Walls Could Talk 2
-Hedwig and the Angry Inch (while it's more about gender issues than sexuality it touches on sexuality)
-Get Real (despite the fact that it is occasionally tedious its a good movie)
-The Wedding Banquet (a bit dated but still really funny)
-Kissing Jessica Stein (I haven't acctually seen it but my exgirlfriend says it is excellent)
-Mulholland Drive (agian my exgirlfriend says it is excellent)
-Ma Vie en Rose (yes, it's in French but it's great; more about gender issues than sexuality)

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KandyKorn17
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Nah, never thought Will was all that normal, either.

I have to disagree with you, Sunset. While, deep down, I don't really think Will & Grace will have a significant effect on viewers attitudes towards gay people, I think the media in general does, and most people DO think that gay people are hilarious. Just listen to people who think they are "oh so modern for accepting gay people". "Yeah, my hair dresser is SO gay! I've even seen him do that thing with his hand! Really, its so funny!"

I think people pick up on the fact that the gay character has always been the comedy relief on tv and in movies.


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Sunset_Rose
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"I don't really think Will & Grace will have a significant effect on viewers attitudes towards gay people"

Thats more what I meant. None of the characters in Will and Grace are realistic in my opinion (I mean, look at Karen) and I don't think that the show will have a deep impact on many peoples attitudes.

However, after a bit of thought I agree that the general representation of gay people by the media does leave a lot of room for improvement.


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