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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Parents, Adults and Teens » Fathers and Daughters

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Author Topic: Fathers and Daughters
Bobolink
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Fathers and daughters is a relationship seldom addressed at Scarleteen.

" We strengthen father-daughter relationships by making ourselves aware of the facts and freeing ourselves from the demeaning myths about men as parents. Recent national statistics and research from the most well respected experts in psychology and sociology, show that……….

Fathers generally have as much or more impact as mothers in the following areas of their daughters’ lives: (1) achieving academic and career success—especially in math and science (2) creating a loving, trusting relationship with a man (3) dealing well with people in authority—especially men (4) Being self-confident and self-reliant (5) Being willing to try new things and to accept challenges (6) Maintaining good mental health (no clinical depression, eating disorders, or chronic anxiety) (7) Expressing anger comfortably and appropriately—especially with men"


Read more.

Care to discuss?

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

- Galileo

[This message has been edited by Bobolink (edited 01-31-2006).]


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Ecofem
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Great topic! I'd say I have a great relationship with my dad (I say this after a period of hard times in high school.) I can talk to him about almost anything. I don't see him that often because we live far away, but I always look forward to seeing him and our frank, meaningful conversations. (Or just laughing over silly jokes.) He encouraged my other sisters –and brothers– to be strong, independent and true to ourselves. And the honest and heartfelt input and advice on "guys", which I've only asked for only recently for the first time, is always helpful, too.

I agree with all the positive effects of strong father-daughter relationships listed. I am lucky to get along so well with my dad, as well as having been fortunate enough to have had him around as a stay-at-home father. Of course, not everyone can have father around and I don't think it necessarily hurts them, but I am certainly grateful for mine.

(Not to mention that I think it's nice and cool, Bobolink, to read your posts, coming from the perspective of a ST-board-dad. )


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Karybu
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Awesome topic. I have a wonderful relationship with my dad - my mother and I haven't always gotten along, but my dad and I have always had what I regard as a very special bond. We have a lot in common, both in terms of interests and personality traits, and he's always been so supportive of me and my younger sister.

One thing I really appreciated was that though he was always seriously busy during the week (he's a department head at a big university), weekends were strictly family time. Possibly my favourite part about the weekend was going out for breakfast with my dad on Saturdays - just the two of us - and then him taking me to my ballet classes later. My sister got the same sort of breakfast deal on Sundays; it was his time with his girls. (Aw, crap, now I miss my dad so much....)

I think people tend to underestimate the importance of the relationship fathers and daughters can have; a lot of emphasis is put on ensuring that mothers and daughters have strong bonds, but dads are important too, albeit in different ways. I'd be a completely different person today had I not had such a wonderful relationship with my father.

[This message has been edited by karybu (edited 02-02-2006).]


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oOo Lea oOo
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I agree. Awesome topic!

I have always been a "daddy's girl". I remember spending every second with my father. I hated going to school because my dad wouldn't be there. He was my hero when I was younger.

He still is my hero today. He battled cancer twice, he's such a strong individual. Not only being my hero, he is my best friend.

He has always been there for me, and supported me even though he didn't always agree with my actions. He would tell me if he thought I was doing something wrong, but he wouldn't force me to see his view, he would simply let me make a mistake and hope I would learn from it.

I have seen several hard times, and had experienced several traumatizing events. [the death of my aunt (who I viewed as my mother most of my life), the death of the "love of my life", the death of another boyfriend, the death of my very close grandmother, and many of my best friends. My rape (which he doesn't know the complete story because I cannot bear to tell him), my very abusive ex boyfriend, and my abusive biological mother]

He has always been there for me, and he still is. I cannot thank him enough, and I will never be able to. He has done so much for me.

I know several gals who don't get along with their father, and even some who don't know their father. Also, those who know a "dad" but realize later in life that the man they have known and loved as a "dad" isn't their biological father.

I feel pain for those gals, but selfishly (or not)I thank God that I am not one of them. I seriously don't know what I EVER would have done without my dad.

He has been such a crucial part of my life. I have had many close calls to loosing him, and even now when I look back on those moments I hurt. It makes me treasure each hug and kiss so much more. (yes, being a 20 yr old adult, I still kiss my dad goodnight, good bye, and even hello and tell him I love him each time I see him)

I know I have disappointed my father, and one summer recently (the summer I was 18) we got into a very disturbing arguement which resulted in me moving out and us not speaking for a month. (He got extremely drunk and for the first time ever in my life he hit me. I lost respect for him and It took a long time for me to gain it back. After a month I could bare to look at him again but we didn't get our close relationship back until 6 months later, when I almost died due to a severe car accident that was a result of an anxiety attack and seizure.)

Any way, I love my dad despite that arguement, and we have had a perfect relationship before and since. So, Thats my bit. Thanks for listening!

[This message has been edited by oOo Lea oOo (edited 02-02-2006).]

[This message has been edited by oOo Lea oOo (edited 02-02-2006).]


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Heather
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quote:
Originally posted by Bobolink:
Recent national statistics and research from the most well respected experts in psychology and sociology, show that……….

Fathers generally have as much or more impact as mothers in the following areas of their daughters’ lives: (1) achieving academic and career success—especially in math and science (2) creating a loving, trusting relationship with a man (3) dealing well with people in authority—especially men (4) Being self-confident and self-reliant (5) Being willing to try new things and to accept challenges (6) Maintaining good mental health (no clinical depression, eating disorders, or chronic anxiety) (7) Expressing anger comfortably and appropriately—especially with men"?


Thing is, some of these bits -- and I couldn't find the studies this came from with that link, nor the analysis of them -- are things we REALLY do not have to worry about in patriarchal culture. Women responding to male authority? I know I'm concerned more with women being able to counter it. Women expressing anger appropriately? Again, so few women express anger at ALL, especially with men, this isn't a big concern of mine as an advocate for young women. Same with women in hetero relationships.

And some of the other stuff...well, I guess I'd just be really pleased if some day these skills and talents weren't SO in the male arena that any one parent, based on sex or gender alone, rather than character, was so very pivotal in terms of them. If math and sciences weren't so male-dominated, for instance, fathers -- if they are -- wouldn't be so influential in that area. I mean, a daughter with a mother who is a molecular biologist and a father who makes artistic pottery is bound to be more likely to get more influence/inspiration in math and science from her. However, in the world we liv in where so many doors as still closed to women in those areas, only because of those doors is it likely to be so that a father, particularly, has more influence there because he's the one more likely to BE the biologist.

Same goes for autonomy and self-reliance, etc. Culture enables men, as a whole, to be more autonomous than women and to demonstrate it more 9and to have more opportunities to do so): it's not like mothers are biologically less so.

(And the depression links bug me, since we know much of that stuff is chemical, not situational, anyway.)

Don't get me wrong; I am ALL over daughters doing well with their fathers. My own relationship with my father was far stronger than the one with my mother: heck, it was my FATHER who gave me my first feminist books. And I'd say that I *did* learn a lot of the skills and such from the list above via that relationship, but while part of that may be because my Dad was a great father and we were so tight, another part is likely because my mother did not feel capable or enabled to have those skills herself, and saw nurturing some of them in me, as a girl, as possibly problematic for me in my life because they are seen as male-gendered or oriented. You know?


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Bobolink
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My point in starting this thread, and perhaps I am oversensitive to it as a father who has not had daughters to parent, is that Scarleteen posters, when they talk of parents at all, usually write about their relationships with their mothers. Fathers are parents too, and we are usually quietly moved to the sidelines when parenting discussions emerge on this board. The reference I chose was one to initiate discussion, not to promote an ideology.

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

- Galileo

[This message has been edited by Bobolink (edited 02-02-2006).]


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Heather
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I agree that that's an intersting observation, and I'd posit that why that is is that often -- as in most things -- sexual responsibility gets relegated to women, so mothers are usually who get addressed most in sexual issues, which is most of what's discussed on the boards, obviously.

I only asked about the studies because the page didn't link to them and I was interested in them, and because it struck me that the results of those studies -- rather, the conclusion drawn from them -- struck me as, if not unsound, short-sighted, and I'd like to think relationships with fathers are important even if NONE of those things were gleaned from them.


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summergoddess
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Hey, great topic!

I love my dad. We were very close especially as a child. He adored me, and spoiled me, and just wanted to spend a lot of time with his daughter. There were many things that were just special as father and daughter time.

The relationship changed when I got into my teens and my beliefs on certain things weren't seen eye to eye with my dad. I was evolving so beautifully. I was having my own life, dating, and etc.

We're back to being close, but the relationship is different now. My dad's a very devoted to his job, and is always socializing in many different things, etc. So I don't get to see him very much. However, I have the ability to work under him. He is my boss at work. We're in a real estate office. He's the broker/owner of the office, and I'm one of the adminstrative, so I do see him when he's there.

I've been told that my dad is very proud of me in everything I do. He shares in his excitement of his only daughter getting married which is in May. I love how my dad is so supportive of the many things I do now, and especially of the relationship I have with my fiance. He couldn't believe it that I had found my "one" at 17, and getting married at 22.

I've been so proud at everything he's accomplished in his life so far. He had a near death scare just before Christmas due to a lot of stress. Brain tumour. I treasure the every moment that i get to have with my father.

I think the most amazing moment will come of this year is going to be at my wedding. He's walking me down the aisle to give me away to Isaiah. I know in his heart, I will always be his princess.

We will continue to evolve in our father-daughter relationship. We just had lunch on Monday together. First time in a while. He took me to a dolphin show back in November (i'm very obsessed about them, and i hope to be able to have the dream become reality to swim with them on my honeymoon!).

I just love my dad very much. I still say i love you, still give him a kiss good bye/good morning too! So the love is stil there!

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~Jules


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Bobolink
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If I may redirect this discussion for a moment. The women who posted here have talkd about what great people their dads are. But, for a moment, can you discuss your feelsings towards your dad in his role as a parent? Did/is he helping you achieve your life's goals? Did he provide thoughtful advice, whether or not you agreed with it? What examples in his life have affected you?

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

- Galileo


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Karybu
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Hmmm, lots of questions, and great things to think about.

Personally, in my family, I much prefer my father's parenting "style" if you will, over my mother's. For instance, when I was a kid and did something wrong (I was a pretty tough kid to deal with a lot of the time), my mother's approach would always be to dole out whatever punishment she felt was appropriate, without much discussion or explanation of why such-and-such a thing was wrong. My dad on the other hand, starting when I was very young, made sure that I understood exactly what I'd done wrong, and why he thought some particular consequence was appropriate for that situation. I very much appreciated that I always had the chance to explain myself first with him.

He's always given me good advice, and has never indicated that he doesn't support me in any way shape or form. Honestly, as long as he can see that I'm doing what makes me happy, in any aspect of life, then he's happy for me. I was never pushed to take certain classes at school, to start a sport or activity I didn't want to, etc. Certainly I was given all those options and he would discuss with me whatever I wanted when making decisions, but I never felt pushed to do anything. (When I decided at the end of high school that I wanted to take a break from ballet, which I was doing at a fairly intense level, his first question was, "Is this what you want? Will this make you happy? Do you think this is the right decision for you at this point?" Whereas when I brought it up with my mother, my friends, anyone else, it was "Oh, but you're so good, it would be such a waste to stop!")

My dad's just always been very supportive, very loving, and a great example of how I'd like to live my life. Making sure that my sister and I are self-sufficient and able to take care of ourselves is number one on his list. There was no way I was going to get my learner's permit to start driving until I could at minimum change a tire. We had a wonderful discussion of managing finances, including income tax, when I was nine. There was nothing in his eyes that I couldn't do because I was a girl; honestly I don't think he thinks that way at all.

Whew, sorry for the long-winded post...I guess to sum up, I'm just trying to say that as a parent and a person, my dad has always been a positive influence in my life, and I really appreciate everything I've learned from him.

[This message has been edited by karybu (edited 02-02-2006).]


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daria319
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To be honest, my father is one of the strongest influences in my life. He has done nothing but support me in any way he could,no matter what was going on. I like to call him the "sane one" in my family. Most of my friends agree.

When I was 18 (a friggin adult in the eyes of the law and most of the country!) I decided to dye my hair black for the heck of it. Well, I bought the dye, went back to the house with my bf, dyed my hair, thought I cleaned up the mess, and left. My mother found the dye box and called me, absolutely furious. She screamed at me, saying how disappointed she was, and how I never thought for myself, blah blah blah.(Last I checked, going against what other people like and doing what you want IS thinking for yourself...) I finally went home, and she did it again. Well, that night, my best friend put hair dye remover on my hair (essentially stripping the color from it) and I went home. I looked my dad in the face, pretty pissed at my mother -- she told me he was so disappointed. That was a load of crap. He looked at me, said I should probably pick another color, and that was the end of it with him. The next morning, he just laughed and said the black made me look like Cher. I agreed, and he paid for a box of blonde dye to fix my hair once it healed from the dye removal. (it was FRIED) Well, my mother continued to throw fits about it, and she still does -- yet she goes around telling her friends that if the worst I do is dye my hair, she really can't say anything.

Basically, my dad is my safety net -- my protector. When the roommate issues arose a few weeks ago, I called him, and he was so angry. Angry that anyone could be so stupid. Angry that someone took out their frustration on my friends and myself. He simply told me "kick her @$$." I knew he didn't mean it literally -- even though he knows I can defend myself physically, he taught me to fix situations like this with words instead. On Thursday, I'll be at the hearing and find out what goes on. I'll sit there, tell the truth, and hope for the best. Of course, I'll know that if anyone tries to pin anything on me, they'll be dealing with a serious lack of evidence, as well as one angry father and daughter.

[This message has been edited by daria319 (edited 02-03-2006).]

[This message has been edited by daria319 (edited 02-03-2006).]


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Jenna D.
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I suppose I shall be the first to say that I am not overly fond of my father as a person or a parent.

My parents divorced when I was maybe 5 or 6. My mother raised my sister, brother and I and Dad visited on weekends and holidays.

He doesn't know me. I will listen to what he has to say but it is very rare that I will take it into account, because it is usually based on *his* situation, priorities and where he's coming from, rather than mine and where *I'm* coming from. I don't give him a lot of credit because to be quite honest, he hasn't done much to deserve it in my 19 years.

I can't talk to him about ANYTHING. I try to take some random, interesting bit of news that I read about and tell him about it to make conversation and within four sentences he will go off into a rant about what a terrible idea/person/thing it is and this is everything that's wrong with it and I can't believe anyone would be so incredibly stupid as to think of it, like it's the worst thing and the end of the world. I very rarely dare to get into anything personal or of great importance to me simply because of this reaction. It makes me feel bad enough that he vehemently criticises and dismisses everything I find worthy of discussion.

He swears far too much for my liking and never comes home from work in a neutral mood, never mind a good one. He complains about not having enough money. He complains about the idiots he works with. He complains about the landlord, the neighbours, the kids at the school down the street and the way the Leafs are playing these days.

The only example in my life he has provided is to be a shining specimen of why you should be extremely selective of who you marry and allow to provide half the DNA for your children. I know he is not as bad as some people's fathers, but I still can't stand being around him for extended periods of time. This is why I come home from school and go directly to my office and bury myself in coursework - so I don't have to talk to him. This is why my sister and brother never want to come visit - because he's so unbelieveably negative and angry at the world. He's okay if we're with him somewhere else, like if he goes to visit us at our mom's or if we're visiting our grandparents, because then he's in someone else's house and has to be nice.

The only "help" he is giving me in pursuing my goals is letting me live here for free while I go to university. Other than that, he is not helping me pay tuition, or for transit, or for books, or anything else, unlike my mother, who somehow manages to chip in $50-$100 or so a month to help me get a metropass or put a little money onto my credit card bill, even though she makes less than he does and has her own bills to pay and kids to support, not to mention that my sister is going to university herself next year and Dad's not going to help her pay for that, either. Nor will he help my brother with college once he goes, not for any of us, unless we 'exhaust all other means.' Apparently this was drawn up in court. He's still behind on child support. He's still not got the car on the road. Yet my mother manages to take care of all of us AND keep our van running.

I acknowledge that there are good things about him, and that there are some positive things that he has done for me, but he is not and has never been the shining superhero that a parent is when you're little. For the most part he has been a disappointment and a source of mental and emotional anxiety. I am glad beyond explanation that he and my stepmom decided not to have kids together, out of sheer relief that no one else will have to deal with him all the time. I've already decided that I will be moving out after this semester, because living in such a tense, negative environment is not worth the money I'm saving by staying here.


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lizenny
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Honestly I couldn't stand my father from day one and a lot of these areas reflect that to a large degree.

(1) achieving academic and career success—especially in math and science
This is a bit of an exception. My father dropped out of school in the 5th grade just because he could manage to(in the Bahamas in the 1940s when he grew up this happened rather frequently) so he grew up pretty much not understanding anything. So even though I still do pretty well in these areas I didn't get any of that from him.

(2) creating a loving, trusting relationship with a man
When it came to having any sort of communication with my father anything with more depth than a fart joke was sure to progress into either a flaming argument, or a massive misunderstanding or confused silence on his part. To this day I normally don't feel comfortable confiding in men or allowing any of my many male friends to surpass "loosely associated buddy" status.

(3) dealing well with people in authority—especially men
My father was absolutely obsessed with the state of his authority. Any minor disagreement with him was treated as a sign of disrespect and implied that I thought he was stupid. Needless to say, I did but I would never dare say so. The mere implication would result in an immediate beating. The safest thing for me to do was to pretend to agree for the moment and then totally disregard whatever it was that he said. Nowadays I can be just as passive-aggressive when in conflict with authority figures, particularly the blow-hard "I'm the boss" types. However when someone in authority has less power over me I'm known for being more than eager to point out when they've screwed up or to openly question why they were put in that position in the first place.

(4) Being self-confident and self-reliant
My father wanted nothing more than for me and my mother to be completely dependant on him for all time and on no one else. He tried to limit the family's social activities and employment. Before my mom divorced him she had no friends and I was forbidden from getting a job. All of my college applications and any other hint of me considering leaving home had to be covered up. Even though he was set on having us depend on him for everything, he had absolutely nothing we wanted or needed. His income was negligible and he had no skills to teach me. Anything I wanted or wanted to know about had to be dealt with myself. So despite his attitude, for me self reliance was and still is an absolute must. In fact I often feel as if I'm the only one who can get anything done right and I often feel that asking for help is mostly useless.

(5) Being willing to try new things and to accept challenges
I'm actually very willing to accept challenges and try new things but usually out of defiance. Most of that probably comes from trying to prove my father wrong. I was always trying to prove to him that I didn't need him and that I was stronger than he believed I was. I often wonder if he would have had any more faith in my abilities if I were his son rather than his daughter.

(6) Maintaining good mental health (no clinical depression, eating disorders, or chronic anxiety)
I'm pretty sure I don't have any of these but my self esteem has been affected somewhat in that at times I'm ashamed of resembling him and ashamed of any and all genes I inherited from him. (50% of my DNA ) That obviously can't be healthy.

(7) Expressing anger comfortably and appropriately—especially with men
My father's temper was absolutely explosive. While I'm not nearly as volatile I still often express my anger aggressively when I think it might have any effect. That was how he got his way so I guess I figured that that was the only way that worked. Still more often than not my anger goes unexpressed simply because I think that doing so is either futile or will end with me getting hurt.

So that's my obligational lousy dad sob story for the week.

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You catch more flies with manure than you do with honey.


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summergoddess
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Here I am again, to answer more questions of my dad.

My dad potrayed a good parenting role. He raised me to believe in what i wanted to believe in, always be myself, and appreciate everything in life. He did help me achieve my goals: school wise, job, and etc. Other goals were totally on my own, and i've been very successful on them! My dad did always provide thoughtful advice. Yes, there were some that I totally disagreeed, but i still appreciated them. Communication and honesty has always been an important asset in my life for everything, for everybody and I apply that daily. His parenting has evolved over the years, blossoming more amazing and loving.

Some things that have affected me in not doing, or not being like him such as his drinking in my younger years (he's been in AA for more than 12 years now and very proud of him for that!). I've chosen to be responsible about my own alcohol and honestly, it's very rare that I get drunk and don't remember anything the next day. School wise, he never did well. My mother is the one that had more smarts and I have that from her, so he has influenced me to do well, and I have and choosing what I really want to do in life. I can't think of any other strong examples at the moment, but when I do, I'll return to this, and edit it with more.

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~Jules


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ashley_love
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this really is a great topic.
i am truely a "daddy's girl" and always have been.
most girls have issues with talking to their fathers but i would much rather go to my father for everything. i have no problem talking to my father about periods, grades, school, my social life, and about whats going on in my relationship with my boyfriend. what most girls dont understand is that fathers know about this stuff. the know what go threw guys mind at our ages. and know what goes on in the womans body.
i really do love that i and many other girls can have that nice bond with their fathers.

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*ash*

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orca
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1. Achieving academic and career success—especially in math and science--This is pretty much the only thing he did, though actually I hated him for pushing me into science when I didn't want to do it. He's a chemist so his life IS science. I'm an arts person and I enjoy doing community service and helping people. My dad and I argue constantly because he has no understanding that I DO NOT WANT TO DO ANYTHING IN THE SCIENCES FOR A CAREER. He constantly pushes me into it too and acts like anything else is completely worthless.

2. Creating a loving, trusting relationship with a man--Opposite effect actually. My dad had a "temper" when I was a kid because of a thyroid problem so I learned that men can't be trusted and have short tempers. My dad is also very muscled as he was a boxer. Consequently, I have a fear of strong or muscled men so I always date tall and skinny guys (my dad is also very short). My mother also played an influence since her first husband was very abusive to her until she finally took the kids and left. She always talked about her first husband as being insane and that he did drugs, but it wasn't until I was 14 that she actually told me and my sister just how awful he really was, that he used to beat her, that he chased her around with a knife before. So that also put this fear in me (especially since her second husband, my father, has a "temper") that I would end up with an abusive man. (Talk about self-fullfilling prophecies, my first boyfriend was very abusive.)

3. Dealing well with people in authority—especially men--First off, I kind of think that's a little sexist. I don't think men should be in "authority" at all. That doesn't mean I think women should either. I believe in more of an equal partnership type deal. So that sentence pretty much assumes that men are in authority and that a father is always the authority figure in a household. Big NO. My dad was the imagined authority figure as in none of us wanted to bring home bad grades out of fear of him. My mom was the real authority figure as she decided most things and would then do the peacekeeping missions to convince my dad of everything. And I actually have a great hatred for any and all male authority figures. Everytime I have a male professor that's head of the department I usually hate the class and argue with the professor constantly in the class. (Outside of class I can get along with them because they have no power, but in class I just can't.) Though I have no problem with male professors in class if they aren't department heads. With any other male authority figure it's the same and I always argue. I just can't feel controlled by any man because it drives me insane. Women authority figures usually don't bother me and I can almost always get along with them.

4. Being self-confident and self-reliant--I still remember when my dad started teaching me how to drive. He was completely negative and overbearing the whole time so I just lost my nerve completely and couldn't drive. About a year later my boyfriend's mother started teaching me to drive and it was a lot different. I felt far more comfortable. My father constantly has to show off his intelligence while boasting of his humbleness. When he goes into those rants and I ignore him, he calls me an idiot. When he realizes that I actually know more than him about something (I know a good bit about sociology but he's clueless about it) he just keeps arguing that he's right and I'm wrong and that I'm "too young" to know what I'm talking about and calls me "weak-minded." So, no self-confidence learned from him. As for self-reliance, I think I actually get that from my mother. She's a pretty strong woman (though stupid for staying with my dad in my opinion), though she doesn't like to be alone (but she is still capable of taking care of things by herself).

5. Being willing to try new things and to accept challenges--This one goes back to the self-confidence. My dad always pushed us into doing things we didn't want to do and we hated it so never did it again (running races, etc.). He's more of the adventurous type and the rest of us kids are too. Maybe we learned that from him, but I don't really want to give him credit. My mother is always the "worst-case scenario" lady so we didn't get the adventurous nature from her. With every little thing she can think up 10 different things that could go wrong with it, and usually they are really freak accident type things too. She never discouraged us from doing things though, unless it involved parachutes, heights, scuba tanks, boats, bungee cords (sp?), etc.

6. Maintaining good mental health (no clinical depression, eating disorders, or chronic anxiety--Almost everyone in the family has depression, anxiety disorder, panic attacks, and obsessive compulsive disorder. My dad refers to these as "weaknesses" and "weak minds" and that we should just toughen up to them. He fails to comprehend mental illness at all and is not at all understanding and is very harsh about it. My mother used to be the "sweep it under the rug" type but once she embraced the disorders she had herself, she began helping us with our problems too. It's taken her a long time and it's only happened recently, but it's still an improvement.

7. Expressing anger comfortably and appropriately—especially with men--Absolutely not. Like I said, he had a "temper" when I was a kid, so I learned that throwing furniture is how you deal with anger. If I were to follow what he taught with his behavior, I would have to be submissive to all men.

Sorry that was so long, but it felt good to get out and sort through too. Good topic. I disagree with the statements made entirely, but it got me to thinking and sorting out things and I think it did that for other people here too.

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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.--Monty Python and the Holy Grail

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Airem
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Hey orca,
I'm really sorry to hear that you went through such a horrific time with your father. Please don't misunderstand me when i say this, but please keep in mind that not every father is horrific and abusive. It sounded like you were grouping all dads together just because of the actions of one.

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As The Shadow Follows The Body, As We Think, So We Become.

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-Lauren-
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I don't see anything suggesting orca believes every, or even many, fathers are bad. She seemed to be simply taking the qualities listed at the top of the thread and stating why she disagreed with them based on her personal experiences, which is what this this thread is for!

I know several women, including myself, have bad relationships with their fathers due common domestic woes like alcoholism and domestic violence, so I think it's very important to hear from them as much as the people who have positive relationships. [Smile]

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orca
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Airem,
I assure you I wasn't grouping or generalizing or stereotyping, nor do I believe all fathers (or all men for that matter) are "horrific and abusive." I actually spoke against stereotypes in my post. In fact, I fail to see how you thought I was making any stereotypes whatsoever or bashing men at all. There's a large difference between me talking about my personal experiences with my father and bashing all men in general. If you could please point out what in my post made you think I believed all fathers are "horrific and abusive," I will gladly clarify for you.

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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.--Monty Python and the Holy Grail

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not_a_hobgoblin
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I've been trying to read this post while fighting with my father, so I guess that says something. I do love him, and I recognize that he's made his parental sacrifices and greatly affected my life in ways I probably can't even begin to qualify, but we don't communicate well- we hardly communicate at all- and so it's so easy to talk on and on about my mother, with whom I am engaged in a constant, colorful dialogue, instead of about my father, who is like a distant castle sending the occasional mized message.

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"Cut her down."
"She is a witch!"
"But she's our witch. Cut her down."

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