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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Pregnancy and Parenting » my daughter (Page 1)

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Author Topic: my daughter
Harvey_1990
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I found this website, i dunno whether you can help or not but no harm in trying
I dont know how to say this either, itll proberly come out sounding crap so if you can understand it woo [Frown]
my lady gave birth to our daughter 6 months ago shes beautiful and i love her...i think....i dunno i really dont know and i feel awful every time i look at her i dont think i feel any thing...i sound horrible i know but i dont think i can do this any more i dont think i ever could i didnt plan on becoming a dad so young. Im not gonna do the hole sob story saying that i dont know why she got pregnant i know...i know we should of taken precautions but we didnt we where just stupid thinking it would never happen that she wouldnt get pregnant...but she did and now NOW i just feel like im totally ******* up the sleepless nights the constant crying the fact her entire life depends on me and my lady, i sound stupid i know if i didnt want a baby shouldnt of had one, but shit happens
every one says how beautiful and how lucky we are that i am i dont feel lucky i feel like im letting every one down that im not helping my daughter or my lady
im young im stupid and i cant do this parenting shit what can i give a little girl she doesnt need me at all
im getting to the point on just giving up on the whole thing the whole family thing the whole baby thing the whole life thing
i wouldnt babble all this shit on here but i have no idea what else to do
thanks for listening
Harvey

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____*Harvey*____

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orca
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Hi Harvey. (By the way, if you are using your full name as your screenname, we ask that you change it to protect your privacy as this can be pulled up on google searches. You can change your screenname by going to your profile. Thanks!)

Parenting can be really difficult, and more so when you aren't ready for it. Honestly, though, I'm not sure anyone is really "ready" for it, even if it's something they've been planning and reading books on. So you aren't alone in feeling so unprepared. In fact, I'm willing to bet your partner is feeling pretty overwhelmed herself. Have the two of you talked about how you are feeling? Also, what have the two of you decided in terms of parenting and any relationship between the two of you?

It does sound like this is a pretty rough time for you, as a big change like parenting can be. Do you have any friends or family, especially those who have kids of their own, that you can talk to about your fears? People you can rely on for some childcare when you and your partner need a break or a night out? If you don't, or if you feel you need a little more support right now, we'd be glad to look up some sources in your area. One thing you may find helpful is going to a support group for new fathers. If you are interested in that, I found this meetup group for fathers in North London. This site also lists some numbers in the UK that you can call to find out more resources in your area for parents.

You talk about not feeling anything when you look at your daughter. Really, I think our society tends to push the idea that parents instantly bond with their children the moment they are born and if you don't then there's something wrong with you. That, however, is BS. If you talk to real-life parents, not the ones who are trying to keep up the Hallmark image, you'll find that a lot of them were in the same place as you for a while. It's confusing, it's scary, it's intimidating, but it does get better. You've made an incredibly brave step coming here and opening up about this. If you want to talk some more here, or if you would like us to help you in locating some resources, don't hesitate to ask.

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Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.--Monty Python and the Holy Grail

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Harvey_1990
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We dont talk we seriously dont talk when we do we just argue about every thing every ******* thing
even things that arent important we argue about!
She looks after the baby i try and advoid going home i work late i go and see my family i know i sound awful but i know if i go back we'll eng up arguing, its like are relationship is totally fucked if we're not arguing we're not talking its horrible!
i have my family she has hers my mum looks after my daughter from time to time,
i totally feel like im ******* this shit up even if people do feel the same as me they must feel something for their children
i sound really bad but sometimes i just hate her! [Frown]

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____*Harvey*____

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KittenGoddess
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First off, let me send some big hugs your way. It's hard being a new parent (no matter what your age) and even more so when you're young (and hadn't planned on things being this way). I don't know that I have all of the answers for you, but maybe we can help sort out some of how you are feeling and come up with some things to do.

One of the things that many parenting books talk about is how after a baby is born, people will "mourn" the loss of their old life. Things are never going to be the same again, and that can be hard and it hurts. One of the worst things you can do is deny this or try to pretend that it's no big deal. It is a big deal and it's okay for you to acknowledge that and take some time to deal with it.

It's also okay if you're not feeling completely warm and fuzzy about your little one. Not everybody falls in love with them right away. Heck, not everybody even likes kids. If you are feeling like you might be a danger to her (like you feel so negatively that you are thinking about doing something that might harm her), then you need to tell someone so that they can help. If you're not to that point, then just give it some time, you may find that you come around as she gets bigger and can interact more.

Is there someone who can help you and your partner talk? A relative, clergy member, or even seeking out counseling? I've got to be honest, it doesn't sound like this is a healthy situation for either of you. Constantly arguing (especially around your daughter) is not good. And avoiding the situation is not going to be helpful in the long run.

It also may be wise to consider whether this is going to be a workable relationship. It is not fair to you, your partner, or your daughter to continue a situation that is not healthy. Have you talked with your partner about what part each of you plan to play in your daughter's life?

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Sarah Liz

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tomasita
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Hey i'm a teenage mom and i certaintly did not plan on having a baby this young either. So I kinda know what your going through. I'm not sure how much different it is on the father, but i know for a fact that having a kid changes your life. Maybe your feeling this way towards you daughter because you feel that by her birth your limited to many things you used to be able to do. Also you may feel like you "hate" her sometimes because you regret everything that got you in this position of being a parent. But remember it's not her fault. She needs you. Just try to be calm with the mother because I know what she's going through and she might be feeling the same things you are. Being a parent is an enormous responsibility so dont give up. Everything will eventually work out for you and your daughter [Smile]

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ignorance is one of the most dangerous things in our society.

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Harvey_1990
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I wouldnt do any thing to hurt her she hasnt done any thing to me. i wouldnt think twice about ******* myself over. i dont mean to argue with my lady but every ******* thing she does really really annoys me i love her dont get me wrong wrong i love her alot but annoys me at the same time [Frown]
i cant afford counseling neither do i have time for it i sound like im making excuses but if im not with the baby im at work if im not doing either of them im out with my friends
im not going out and leaving my lady cause im a selfish little shit i go out before i go totally mad [Frown]

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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Harvey: I'd suggest talking to someone at an NHS office to see if family counseling may be available to you at no cost, which it very well might, particularly for young parents. You may also be able to access parenting classes so that you can feel better equipped to do this.

One thing that counseling can do beyond offering you support is help you two figure out how to deal with your relationship, and what is going to be best for the two of you. It may be that living together isn't best, or trying to sustain a love relationship, rather than a relationship of platonic co-parents, isn't best. You two do have options, but it sounds like you're going to need help from a third-party to explore them if all your communication has broken down as it appears to have at this point.

Can I ask what your relationship was like before the pregnancy? Did it feel like something good for both of you, that made you each happy, then?

I hear you when you say you don't have the time, but at the same time, if we have a situation that is bad for us, and we want to see some change, we've got to do things to try and foster that change. And an hour a week IS something anyone can manage, it really is. Maybe that's one night a week you don't go out with friends, then.

In other words, clearly, you are very unhappy with this situation, and clearly, you want things to change. Just walking away from your partner and your kid is certainly one option, but it's probably one that will only change so much, particularly in terms of how you feel about yourself. You also do have the needs of a kid to think about, and how having a parent abandon them tends to impact a child. You say she doesn't need you, but when we see how children and adults do who were abandoned by parents, it tends to be pretty obvious they did, in fact, need those parents.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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Before the pregnancy it was good...it was great it wasnt forced we could be together we could be apart i trusted her she trusted me.
face to face counseling the idea alone stresses me out! this is hard enough people judging me and sitting down face to face with someone telling me they understand when to me it seems they clearly dont their paid to say it!
i know how hard it is! my dad left my mum and since then theres been a different man ever since
i wouldnt want to leave ive stuck at this for months and months i know im not helping my self at all and not helping any one else in helping me but it seems to me that things cant get any worse my lady judges me my daughter judges me doctors judge me i might as well have looser branded on my ******* head [Frown]

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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A counselors job isn't to judge. In fact, one of the big parts of being a counselor is accessing a skillset we're supposed to have where we don't do that like the average guy on the street. I know that it can be intimidating.

But too? Counselors don't tend to choose that line of work just because it results in a paycheck, but because it is a kind of work they feel drawn to do because they like to help people in need. Yes, they will often get paid, but everyone needs a roof over their head and to eat, and those needs don't mean someone's motives aren't good. Think about it this way: someone who decides to be a painter may have people purchase their paintings, but that probably isn't why they do what they do. They paint because it's where their talent and passion is.

So, why not TRY counseling with someone before deciding how it's going to go based on....well, a lot of uninformed assumptions?

Too, look again at what others have said here, and do bear in mind that you are hardly the first new parent who has felt like you are feeling. People who work with families know this.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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I did counseling when i was 15 in school she opened old wounds and went round and round in circles about things im not trying to undermind the job even if i sound like i do which im sorry about
but...its like...i dont know i feel like i go round and round in circles people try and help and i end up in the same ******* position i was in, in the first
doctors put me on anti depressants to help
the councle give me and Maddy a home to help
my mum gave Maddy baby shit to help
things dont help i dunno maybe its just something wrong with me
i cant cope with old wounds getting opened up
Maddy depends on me and if i break then shes fucked aswell [Frown]

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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Well, one thing to know about dealing with old wounds is that in order TO grow and change and move past them -- and how they may be influencing us now -- we generally DO have to reopen them and work through them. And if we try and avoid really digging into that stuff, then yeah, we aren't likely to make a lot of progress, and will tend to stay stuck.

I know it's painful to do that (and believe me, I do: been there myself), but it is what it is. Too? I'm of the mind that that's not going to break us: we're much more likely to break by NOT dealing with things than by dealing with them.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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So the only way round this is counseling?
im going to sound sad but it really scares me
i know my past is ******* up my future and my life now but it fucked me over so much going back into is hard
i know Maddy and my daughter dont deserve all the shit in my past being heaped on them
no im not happy but i dont want to do what my dad did to me!
i am just going round in brutally painful circles [Frown]

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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It may or may not be, but it's certainly one sound place to start trying. Given how big the communication breakdown has been between you and your partner, it does sound to me like you ARE going to need SOME kind of mediator if you're going to get back to better communication.

Sometimes, the places that scare us are important for us to go to. But if you try counseling and it isn't right for you, you certainly can try and find a different kind of objective mediator: a neutral friend or family member, a clergyperson, a doctor, what have you.

And since you express keeping in painful circles, I'd say it seems clear it's time to step outside your comfort zone in some way to break those patterns.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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Clergy person??? what??
breaking out my comfort zone isnt moving in and having a baby with someone breaking out my comfort zone enough! im sorry
having a pop at every one else isnt helping me in the slightest i know
i know your listening to what im saying and i know i need to drop my gard to let people help me and i dont want to sound like a stupid kid that wont accept any thing that people say and refuse to listen
but...i dunno i know if i listen and accept what people say i know they'll be right (if that made sense)
i know things arent right with Maddy far from right she dont trust me at all we fight and argue all the time she thinks im sleeping with everyone i know what the best thing to do is
i know what people are going to say a counseler is going to say what every one is going to say
but i still love Maddy and i dont want to leave her i know im babbling now aswell

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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Not knowing much about you, I can't possibly know what your life is like, or if you are someone who goes to a church or has some other spiritual tradition. For people who do, a clergyperson or spiritual leader or teacher is often a good person for help.

I hear what sounds like you feeling pretty angry at some of the things we have said or suggested, but I hope you realize that when you ask for help, all we can do is offer out what we know has helped others.

For sure, becoming a parent likely did move you out of your comfort zone. However, doing those things in and of themselves likely isn't going to help you grow if you aren't growing in them, aren't supported with them, and have approached them in a crisis-state (which is understandable). It also isn't likely to help you much if you are coming to those things without adapting -- of course, that goes both ways, that's about your partner as well, not just you.

If you knew, though, what a counselor was going to say, one supposes you would also then know the kinds of changes you might need to try and make together, and I'm not hearing that you do. I think that your fears about counseling and you two getting help (not a house or baby items, but help) are driving that attitude.

But if you want, we can certainly talk about what you think a counselor would suggest and do with the two of you and then, why you aren't able to do those things?

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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they would more than likely say we shouldnt be together...ok your right i dont know, i dont know what they would say or do
it just seems easier to walk away i dont want to but i cant go into how much of a selfish bastard my dad was and killed him self and how my mum doesnt even accept that it was because of me and how im turning into my dad ruining my daughters life
all i want is to be a dad and i cant do that and yes im depressed and yes im pissed off and angry but cant you see why?
im not trying to go against every thing you say im not trying to share my most in depth and painful secrets with people i dont know especaily when im clearly not worth all it
i dont mean to be a bastard and annoying but but its defence i know people try to help i know you try and help and im sorry [Frown]

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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Perhaps it would be helpful if I told you what I would do/say if I were in the room with you as your mediator? It may or may not be any given counselor's approach, but I'd say it'd be common enough.

I'd personally start by asking each of you how you are feeling right now, how your relationship and lives are going, what you see as what's good right now and what is problematic. If I wad told you were fighting a lot, I'd start by asking what you are most frequently fighting about, how those conversations seem to go, and how you both feel about them.

I'd ask what it is each of you really wants right now, out of your relationship, out of your lives. I'd ask if you are both invested in this relationship together, and what kind of relationship you want. In other words, right now, is your bond mostly about your child, are we looking more at co-parenting, or is it also about you two, separate from your child: do you still want a love relationship together or not?

I'd probably also start by picking one area of conflict the two of you have and walking you through a conversation about it. If you started to argue or fight, I'd step in, get you both to step back, and try teaching you both some tools for better communication, then have you try them out in my office to work on that conflict.

Given what you have shared here about your family history, I'd ask you to talk more about that, both for yourself, and so that your partner could get a better sense of how HUGE a struggle it has to be for you right now to be trying to parent unprepared, trying to have a family unprepared, and to feel like bolting but have so much guilt and worry about becoming just like your father who hurt you so deeply: your partner realizing that that's a huge issue, and likely a huge part of your challenges in this, would be really important to me.

Those are just some starting points, some things to give you an idea of how a counselor might work. I'd say it's highly unlikely you're going to walk in and have a counselor say a couple shouldn't be together. In fact, overall, counselors tend to ask far more questions than make judgments or edicts like that. And a family counselor saying that on visit one, rather than after months of seeing how you two are together and if you're progressing, would be nigh unto impossible.

Do those things sound like your expectations of counseling? If so, and you feel a resistance to any of them, why do you think you have that resistance?

Perhaps it's also worth asking how, if not with the help of another person, YOU see ways to work through this? What do you feel like your best options are?

For the record, I absolutely see why you're pissed off and angry: I said what I did, though, to try and make sure you recognize that directing that in any way at someone trying to help you who you have asked for help both isn't productive, and also really isn't appropriate. If, when you're asking someone for help, you swear at them, get very angry with them, there's both not going to be a lot we can do, and we're also going to be inclined to at some point say we can't help because we don't want to be barked at, which is a reasonable limit.

[ 02-22-2009, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Heather ]

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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no not really no
the only thing im against is talking about my dad
its not like im jumping though hoops to talk about it but i cant...if i do i either end up getting totally smashed or i just flip i dont understand what you say by saying "perhaps its also woth asking your self how" how what
And im sorry i dont mean to be so brash and rude and swear all the time i know your trying to help

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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Okay, so if you're not yet at the point where you feel able to talk about your Dad -- which is understandable, especially with someone brand-new to you -- then you get to walk into counseling with that limit, with saying, "There is one thing I don't feel able to talk about yet, and that's my Dad," and that should be respected.

Mind, eventually? You probably ARE going to need to talk through that, especially since my guess is it's not a minor factor in all of this, and probably a good part of WHY you are having such a tough time managing parenting. BUT! You don't have to do so before you have established trust with someone first, and a good counselor is going to understand that and not want to push you into talking about it before you have that trust and some more tools to manage your feelings in general.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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But if it is one of or the mane reason for all this im going to have to talk about it...urghh i just want to be a dad to my daughter i wanna look at her and not hate her its not fair on her that i inflict on her what i feel about my dad its not her fault its got nothing to do with her at all i know...or i hope i couldnt hurt my daughter as much as he hurt me [Frown]

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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I'd say it's very likely a factor, but I highly doubt it's the primary reason for everything going on right now. My guess is the primary reason is that you're 18 (right?), which is exceptionally young to be a parent and even to live with a partner who is the mother of your child. It likely has a lot to do with being thrown into something VERY big you had no preparation or planning for.

It may also have to do with how good your economic resources are, how good your relationship with this woman really was beforehand (and how right it was per being a relationship this serious and daily) -- it sounds to me like you two may not have yet learned how to communicate well, period, before now -- what kinds of other supports you two should have, but don't, and a whole lot of others things including the mere the fact that parenting, period, is really freaking stressful.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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yeah im 18
I know i come across arrogant and rude and like im self absorbed i mean who cant bond with their child
but i do my best honestly i do as hard as that might be to believe people who help me or try
i hate talking about my dad...i hate it i hate him and i mean it i was never good enough for him!!!
this is what i mean old wounds! how can he say he loved me he lied!! even though ive messed this up so much i can never hurt her as much can i? or am i just telling my self this to make myself feel better?

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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You ask who can't bond with their child, but as was already mentioned here, plenty of people face challenges with that. And I'd note that when you aren't the one who was pregnant and gave birth or who nursed their kid, it's an extra challenge: you don't have the benefit of some body chemistry that helps with that.

I also think that the way you are talking about yourself says more about how YOU think of yourself than how I or anyone else does.

I haven't talked with you about your Dad because you've expressed that you don't want to talk about him. But if you'd like to, we can certainly do that. And if you want to, I feel like the only way I can do that is if you can basically write out your story when it comes to him so we have a sound place to start and I understand what you are referencing when you say things like that he lied to you and didn't find you to be good enough.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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My dad and mum would fight all the time about every thing he had an affair years ago years and years ago! my mum and dad got back together but my mum never really trusted him she would lie to him about how she was feeling and say to him to do what he wanted. my dad wasnt stupid but they didnt talk about it, it got to the point when my dad would avoid my mum, me and my brother and sister didnt know whether we where coming or going one minute its my dad moving out the next hes moved back in the next my mums moved out every day when we got home from school it would be another drama my dad wouldnt be in we'd wait and wait and wait for him to come home and eventualy he'd come of smashed this happened for months my mum would accuse him of every thing she would follow him to see if he went where he said he went it was hard enough on me and my brother but my little sister was 12! their relationship was messing up my life my brothers life my sisters life we where young we where kids what where we meant to say when people asked "Oh nothings wrong just my dad is a boozer, my mum is insecure and paranoid i listen to my mum cry her self to sleep every night when my dads god knows where" a year later things seemed to get better my mum telled us she was pregnant, my dad seem to sort it out got help for the drinking went back to work him and my mum went into counselling together to sort out their "differences" My brother got into Uni i met Maddy my sister was happy at school WHOA things where almost perfect, yeah my family is almost cursed with bad luck as my mum miscarried and BAM i thought things would go back to how they where...but no my dad stayed away from the drink stood by my mum i knew it was hard for them but they seemed ok well as ok as things could be. Maddy told me she was pregnant about a month later timing couldnt be worse i didnt want to turn my back on her and when she decided she was going to keep Emily the only thing i was worried about was telling my mum and dad.
When i went to tell my mum she knew there was something wrong she says its mother intuition...ok then but she was happy about it she said i was "blessed" and that she was looking forward to being a grandparent. one down one to go
when i told my dad he said he wasnt proud of me because i was only 17 but he loved me and because of that he would stand by me...but he didnt he went funny with me like fake and forced he would tell me he loved me all the time and how Maddy would be welcomed to the family. i didnt think much of it i thought it was stress of work and my sister was being...well a teenaged girl but my mum told me he was going out and getting back late again he came round our flat drunk of his face laughing then crying then normall this went on for about a month and then he stopped talking to me i was sitting in my mums house with maddy and he threw her out saying that she wasnt welcome, i told him i hated him and that he would have nothing to do with the baby or maddy or me, my sister moved in with me and Maddy because she said he was loosing the plot... i should of relised then things wherent normall for a growen man but i didnt i was just so pissed with him because of how he treated Maddy my sister had been living there a week and a half and my mum called up late i thought it was one of my friends messing around but she told us to come home she when we got back my older brother and his girlfriend where there my mum read out this note thing from my dad which was saying how he was feeling and how he never meant to hurt any one but he couldnt cope he wasnt dad material however he loved us all so very much... i didnt understand what was going on untill my mum said he had taken some sort of overdoes on some drugs or something
i went to the funeral but i didnt cry how can i grieve for someone that treated us so badly and killed him self because he was thinking of him self
i feel like its my fault if Maddy hadnt gotten pregnant it wouldnt of knocked him off so much he and my mum lost a child and i was thinking of myself and my girlfriend my mum wont listen when i say this she says he loved me but how can he!!
thats my story

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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Harvey, I have just read all of this, but have to run and errand and also want to think on this for a while.

But since I won't respond to this for a little bit, I did want to be sure to say two things to you.

For starters, thank you for trusting me with your story, to hold your story. Second, you don't probably need for me to tell you that that is a LOT for someone to grow up with and deal with, and a LOT for you to have had culminate the way it did at this particular time in your life. I also very much understand -- including in my own life, I had someone very important to me commit suicide when I was younger -- how easy it is to blame ourselves, and how incredibly hard it is to live through.

I'll add more in a little while, but just wanted to be sure you knew that you were heard until I can.

Are you feeling okay having written this out?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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not really but ill survive

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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I'm back, and have some thoughts with you about this. However, I was also talking to someone close to me about this thread, and I thought he had some really, really great things to say about all of this. He also is someone who very much understands really getting ripped off by a father.

So, I'm having him register right now and he'll be around shortly. I can add my thoughts and feelings on this later as well.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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Ok

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____*Harvey*____

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Blue Griffin
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Harvey: Happened to read your posts and am very touched by all the things you are dealing with and impresssed that you are hanging in there with all this, it is tough to be vulnerable but one of the odd things about being a man is that we are stronger when we admit our vulnerabilities and work through them. I feel what you are going through and thought I might be able to add some perspective on some of the things you are dealing with.

First letís deal with being a father. You are one now, nuff said. You have a choice on what kind of father you want to be. I know it doesnít feel like it right now but you do. Everything you do from this point on in your life is a choice. I know it doesnít feel like a choice, you didnít have a choice in all the **** your had to deal with as a kid growing up, that is a given. But you have a choice in how you deal with your family now. Letís look at few of your options: you could choose to run away and abandon the mother of your child and your daughter, you can choose to hang around, get drunk and continue fighting over and over again creating a really unhealthy environment for yourself and your family, or you can choose to take this on fully and commit to growing and becoming the father you want to be. Sure there are a lot of other choices but letís stick with those.

I am guessing you donít want to do the first two, but that you have very little idea on how to get to the last option.

So letís talk about fathers. A lot of men, who where hurt by their dad, go off in life to promising to "never be like my dad", in doing that they cut off dealing with how their fathers really acted and the issues and feelings around their father. They strive so hard to not be like their dad that they end up doing and acting exactly what their dad did. Until we own how we are like our fathers, and believe you me I NEVER wanted to be like my father, but itís not until we can look at what we learned from the fathers we had and know how we are like them we can never figure out another path. Those who donít know history are doomed to repeat it. We have to know where we come from before we can make a choice. So in your becoming the father you want to be you will need to look at what you learned from your father and make choices about if those are ways you want to act and be.

I am going to out and out say itÖ you got gyped by your dad, you never got to see how a loving and committed man could act as a father and how a loving father would act around his children. You were right in your anger at him for the way he acted, that was you being a father and protecting your family. It also makes sense that you donít feel that instant bond with your daughter, mainly because any paternal feelings you did get from your dad seems to have been painful to you as a child, I understand you not wanting to subject your daughter to the same pain you felt as a child.

Your dad made his own choices, he was a man too, and they were not because of anything you did. I know itís hard to get that because when we grieve we tend to take on more responsibility than we really have. This is a sticky wicket but I trust you will realize this fully in time.

I really resonated with the way you feel like you are doomed, but letís be clear that this is your judgment on yourself and not the reality of your self. I know having compassion for yourself is really hard, especially when you feel like you fucked up. Itís like being a fish in water you canít imagine feeling anything but the water you are in. It is really hard to get out of this vicious circle by yourself, but it is doable, people around the world do it daily. I would ask you thisÖ if one of your best friends was going through what you are going through what would your heart desire for them to do? Would you be more compassionate to your friend than you are to yourself? I know I am my own critic and need support to get out of that circle. I would have never gone to any kind of counseling but would always support my friends doing it.

So here is what I think about counseling, if you do it fully and honestly you will go round and round, it will suck to be dealing with the same issues over and over again, however if you are really doing it honestly and fully what you will realize is that you are not in a vicious circle but a very tight spiral staircase. Like a staircase you go round and round but if you are working it right you are moving upward and eventually you get a different perspective on the same issue, eventually you learn to deal with those issues, grow and be able to make better choices for yourself. The advantage to counseling is that you learn to see that there are other ways to do things than what has been done and what you feel doomed you are going to do.

You have a lot on your plate, you have been smart in that you reached out and have gotten a lot of good advice and if you keep doing that I suspect you will find you can get a lot of good support as well. I guess it comes down to what kind of man, what kind of father you are going to choose to be.

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Harvey_1990
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if my friends where going through this id tell them to get help id nag and nag and nag to the point where they would hate me but its easy to say that from a different persepective
he fucked me over big time though how can someone say they love you then do that!
i learnt how to hit from a bong i learnt how to drink without throwing up i learnt how to make people feel worthless and treat them bad and i learnt that "men dont cry" and "Real men dont talk about there feelings" yeah he...was great
he didnt even see Emily she clearly meant about as much to him as i did
hes a waste of space he screwed me up
im violent like my dad
i drink till im drunk till im paralytic like my dad
im depressed like my dad he left me all this shit and the only way out is counselling
counselling that my dad went to and now my dads dead...fantastic
i dunno im thinking he could of fucked me up a little bit more than he already has

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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Harvey, why don't you kind of sit with all of this input and feedback for a day or so, then come back tomorrow and we can talk some more?

This is a lot to digest and process, after all.

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Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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Cant sleep
wont sleep
ill get drunk if i go out
the baby will wake up any way
no ones awake
no one to talk to
i can sit and depressed
that sounds like fun [Frown]

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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Okay, if you do want to talk more, we can absolutely do that.

Would you like me to add my additional thoughts on this, or do you want to write more for yourself?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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Harvey_1990
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yeah go ahead
what do you think?

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____*Harvey*____

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Heather
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I'm wondering if it might be helpful for you for me to talk about how I worked through having someone really close to me suicide. If it isn't helpful, we can certainly talk about something else.

I think one of the toughest things for me was not being able to get any resolution. For instance, you clearly -- and validly -- are very angry with your father, both around his suicide and all of what he did to you and didn't do for you. You clearly feel you bear some responsibility in his suicide. But, you're now without the opportunity to voice that anger, and also without the opportunity to talk with him about you causing a pregnancy and to hear him say that was NOT -- and it really likely wasn't -- why he did what he did. That's so painful and so hard, and unfortunately, we can't ever get that from people who are gone. It's just something we have to accept, but it can be really difficult to do that because it is so, so unfair.

I had similar feelings of responsibility with the person I was close to who suicided. It took me a really long time to recognize that he was clearly on that track all by himself, and nothing I did or didn't do would have changed anything: he was going to go that route regardless, and that was all about his choices, not about me.

By the way, chances are your dad was behaving the way he did after you told him about the pregnancy and until he died because he'd already mentally checked out. people on their way out of this world like that just don't tend to really hear the rest of us or feel where we are at: being suicidal is a very, very self-absorbed space to be in.

I think it's sound to look over again, a lot of what Blue said. You do have choices here, despite all the challenges you have, many of which were set up by your Dad.

I realize we haven't really toughed on your partner and how willing she is to work on all of this. What's your sense of what work she is willing to put into changing things for the better?

--------------------
Heather Corinna, Executive Director & Founder, Scarleteen
About Me ē Get our book!
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

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