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» Scarleteen Boards: 2000 - 2014 (Archive) » SCARLETEEN CENTRAL » Pregnancy and Parenting » Desperately want a baby

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Author Topic: Desperately want a baby
AnnaK
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For a while now, I've been feeling rather broody. I thought it was just a phase, but as time goes by, I feel even more strongly about it. I want a baby.

I know that I would get support at home and finances are not a major problem. However... Slight problem. I'm 20 years old, a virgin, and am not in a relationship. I don't want to go out and have sex irresponsibly and risk getting STDs.

However, I'm wondering if I got to know and trust a guy (although this could take some time as in my experience, most guys are jerks - hence I've chosen to remain a virgin so far!) if it would be acceptable to have unprotected sex until I get pregnant. I would not expect the guy to have a role in the upbringing of the child, as I realise that would be unfair. Furthermore, there are a lot of single parent families out there; I was raised by just one parent, and I didn't feel anything was lacking in my life.

I just have a terrible yearning for a child which will not go away and which gets worse every time I see a baby, see cute baby clothes, see pregnant women or hear of people having babies.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.


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SwimmingThrewMolases
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Have you ever thought about adoption? It could be lifefulling for the child and you.
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AnnaK
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I don't think that I'd be able to adopt 1) As I am so young and 2) I am single. Even if I did have a successful application I would have to wait a very, very long time. Besides, I would like to have my own biological child if it is possible.
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logic_grrl
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Actually, it's perfectly possible to adopt as a single person, especially if you're willing to consider a child who is older than a newborn or who may have some health risks or problems.

Yes, any prospective adoptive parent will be asked some tough questions to make sure that they can care for a child - but those are the same questions you need to be asking yourself if you're considering having a child, adopted or not.

quote:
if it would be acceptable to have unprotected sex until I get pregnant.

Would you be telling the guy about this? Tricking him by not telling him that you're not using contraception (or claiming that you are) is extremely unacceptable.

But if you want to get his consent to provide his sperm, then you're going to have to discuss it with him and see what he thinks and wants - which may well include involvement in the life of the resulting child.

As a practical point, one way of dealing with your baby yearnings would be to do some babysitting or child care. That would give you contact with babies, but also give you a more realistic view of how demanding parenting can be.


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Heather
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(Might also want to bear in mind, as a slightly less important, but vital practical point, that STIs can cause harm to a growing fetus and problems during childbirth, as well as with your own health.

So, it's not advisable for ANYONE to be having unprotected sex with a new partner until those two people have been having safer sex for at least six months AND each both have a couple clear STI screens under their belt, as well as a real agreement to remain monogamous.)


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AnnaK
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Logic_grrl - It surprises me to hear that it would be possible for me to adopt, but at this stage I don't want to. I'd like to have my own biological baby - and that is the thing, at the moment I yearn for a baby, not a child. I want to have a baby and see him/her become a toddler, start school, and go through all those stages and do everything I could to make sure that child was well-cared for and protected, as well as loved.

I was considering having sex with a guy and not telling him. Yes, it may be tricking him if I did have to resort to saying that I was using contraception, however, I would not expect the guy to have any responsibility to his baby or play a role. That would be unfair. I don't actually have a guy in mind though, as I'm currently single!

The problem is though, that in the place I work, I frequently come into contact with babies, and that only makes my feelings stronger. I do realise the reality of it; the screaming, having to change plans due to baby's needs, etc, but none of that makes a difference to me.

Miz Scarlet- I know I do not have an STD as I have never had sex before. I also wouldn't just have sex with a random guy off the street or in a club because I'm aware that STDs are on the increase.


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Heather
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quote:
Originally posted by AnnaK:
I was considering having sex with a guy and not telling him. Yes, it may be tricking him if I did have to resort to saying that I was using contraception, however, I would not expect the guy to have any responsibility to his baby or play a role. That would be unfair. I don't actually have a guy in mind though, as I'm currently single!

It would also be unfair to use someone as a sperm donor without their knowledge, and actually, that person could still CLAIM paternity rights at some point, some you may not like or want, so.

quote:
Miz Scarlet- I know I do not have an STD as I have never had sex before. I also wouldn't just have sex with a random guy off the street or in a club because I'm aware that STDs are on the increase.

What you seemingly are not aware of is that not "picking a random guy from a club or the street" doesn't offer you protetction. Nor does someone you feel represents to you what an STI-free person is like's word or appearance. The ONLY known things that DOES reduce those risks, with ANY two partners, is six months of safer sex, with latex barriers, regular screenings (on BOTH your parts, virign or no), and BOTH partners limiting partners. Because STIs are more than rising: in your age group, they're epidemic, in large part because of both a lack of safer sex practices AND fallacious notions like if someone isn't a stranger hookup, or "looks clean" that STIs are a nonissue, or that "virgins" can't carry STIs.


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gubblebum
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Have you considered a sperm bank? It might be worth looking into. There are some fees involved, but there are also fees involved with raising a child.
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logic_grrl
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quote:
It would also be unfair to use someone as a sperm donor without their knowledge,

In fact, it's worth imagining how you would feel if you found out that someone had secretly stolen some of your eggs, implanted them into someone else, and used them to conceive a child!

I'd guess you'd feel that you'd been taken advantage of and abused.

quote:
I know that I would get support at home

Are you living at home? If you're going to be relying on your family to support your baby as well as you, you might want to ask them how they feel about this.

quote:
at the moment I yearn for a baby, not a child. I want to have a baby and see him/her become a toddler, start school, and go through all those stages and do everything I could to make sure that child was well-cared for and protected, as well as loved.

It might be worth asking what it is about parenting that attracts you. Because ultimately, it's about a whole lot more than "having a baby".

Even if you have a baby that's biologically yours, you can't guarantee that it'll be "perfect" or do all the things you expect. What happens, for example, if your baby is born with (or develops) special needs? What happens if your plan for their life gets thrown completely out of the window?


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AnnaK
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Miz-Scarlet - My father never learned of my existence, so I think it would be easy enough for me to conceal it as well. Furthermore, most guys, in my experience, would not want to take on that kind of responsibility and would probably be relieved that they would not be expected to play a role in the child's life.

I realise that people from all walks of life can have sexually transmitted diseases. However, there are places you would meet people who are more likely to have sex with different partners regularly, and thus, are more likely to have sexually transmitted diseases.

Also, I have not had a blood transfusion, neither of my parents had sexually transmitted diseases, and I am not sexually active, so I think it is highly unlikely that I have an STD!

gubblebum - I haven't seriously considered a sperm bank before, but it isn't a bad idea.

logic_grrl - Again, I have the same argument about men here. I honestly don't think most men would care about their sperm creating a baby that they play no role in taking care of or see it as theft. Indeed, a lot of men are sperm donors purely for the financial rewards and would not care to get in contact with the results of their assistance. For women, it is different. We care more about having babies!

I am living at home, and don't need to ask about the support because I was given the whole sex lecture some time ago and was told about methods of contraception and that if I did get pregnant that it would be fine and I would get support.

What is it about parenting that attracts anyone? I wouldn't mind if my baby was not perfect - indeed, who knows what will happen? The chances of special needs are small though, and plenty of people risk that in trying for babies and in going through with pregnancies. I don't have a plan for a baby's life. Just a desire to go through all of the stages with a baby and not miss out on any part of the development.


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logic_grrl
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quote:
Also, I have not had a blood transfusion, neither of my parents had sexually transmitted diseases, and I am not sexually active, so I think it is highly unlikely that I have an STD!

However, since you are planning to have sex in order to conceive this baby, you are evidently going to be sexually active, and that does put you at risk.

You really can't try and gamble on someone not having an STD simply because of where you met them - it just doesn't work. An awful lot of people have contracted STDs from people who they assumed "couldn't" have an STD because they didn't meet in a bar.

quote:
I am living at home, and don't need to ask about the support because I was given the whole sex lecture some time ago and was told about methods of contraception and that if I did get pregnant that it would be fine and I would get support.

However, I'd guess that was referring to an accidental pregnancy. That's somewhat different from deliberately choosing to get pregnant and planning in advance that your parents will have to support you.

quote:
I honestly don't think most men would care about their sperm creating a baby that they play no role in taking care of or see it as theft.

Actually, plenty of men in such situations have made it clear that they do care very much, and demanded to be involved in the child's life.

Being tricked into fathering a child against your will is very different from freely choosing to be a sperm donor.

I think you're working from some very dubious stereotypes here.

Lying and deceiving a sexual partner, let alone exploiting them as an involuntary sperm donor - that's never going to be okay, morally.


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Aria51
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quote:
Originally posted by AnnaK:
The chances of special needs are small though, and plenty of people risk that in trying for babies and in going through with pregnancies.


I thought the same thing too when I was pregnant. Five years later, struggling along trying to get a four-year-old with special needs (most of which cropped up out of NOWHERE) into special education, and trying to keep up the sanity to keep my household from caving in on itself, all I can tell you is don't be so certain.


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gubblebum
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quote:
Originally posted by AnnaK:
Again, I have the same argument about men here. I honestly don't think most men would care about their sperm creating a baby that they play no role in taking care of or see it as theft. Indeed, a lot of men are sperm donors purely for the financial rewards and would not care to get in contact with the results of their assistance. For women, it is different. We care more about having babies!

I think this is an unfair assumption. Some men do not care if their sexual activities result in a child, but some do. What if, when this hypothetical child is 12 years old, the father decides he wants a role in his son or daughter's life? You might be legally required to share custody with the man you used only to have a child.

I also think your assumption about women is completely sexist. All women do not only care about having babies. Many women never choose to have children, or decide to wait until much later in life. Same with men. The only difference is, men cannot carry the child themselves. That doesn't change their emotions though.

It sounds as though you haven't totally thought everything through before deciding that you want a baby (who, by the way, will not be a baby for very long, and will soon be a child). Maybe you should reconsider and make sure you're ready to raise a child for 18 years.


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christinejones
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by AnnaK:

It sounds as though you haven't totally thought everything through before deciding that you want a baby (who, by the way, will not be a baby for very long, and will soon be a child). Maybe you should reconsider and make sure you're ready to raise a child for 18 years.

and i would just add to that - maybe it stops legally at eighteen but my sister is a mother herself to three children, married (unhappily) in her late thirties and she still relies completely on my mother (as we all do to an extent) it doesn't always just stop when their eighteen!!!!

i am sure you know that anyway... but i have quite a few friends who have been single mothers and it is really tough but i remember reading somewhere a quote which made a lot of sense to me which was --- when a baby comes into your life it is as if it was always there and you can't remember or imagine what it was like without it..... it just kinda is.
and i think that makes sense.

but but but what if it is a boy who would like to have a father figure? i know from my friends who have boys that they miss having a father (it doesn't seem to be the same at all for the girls). they really, really do --- although they don't make a fuss and are sweet and lovely kids they latch on sooooo fast to any male that they think might be a possible permanent fixture in their lives (even a next door neighbor or whatever). it just doesn't seem to be the same for the girls at all and i only know five single mums or so well so.... it's kinda unscientific.

and although when i had my termination i didn't tell the father at all (so sorry for the implied do as i say don't do as i do....).
but despite that hypocrisy i still feel it is terribly unfair not to tell the possible future father. are you so adamantly against having a relationship AND a child?

if so, perhaps the sperm bank option is safer and more suitable for you? i'm sure you will cope fine but it is a little unfair too to expect your family to shoulder the burden without making any effort to provide for your child yourself. that part of situation is a large part of the responsibility of having a child --- and proof that you have the capability to deal with all the responsibilities of being an adult and parent.

oh well, just my two cents. but as they say a child is for life --- when you're forty and the child has turned eighteen it doesn't necessarily magically disappear giving you some more 'you' time!

all the best with it


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Gumdrop Girl
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Anna's choice to reproduce is entirely her own. But I cannot help but get the impression that Anna's attitude towards the biological father is extremely selfish, and that is just upsetting. Sperm banks are a FAR better alternative to just getting "accidentally" pregnant by a friend. After all, it is incredibly sexist to assume that men don't care what happens to their sperm. You can't assume that; it's something you really have to ask honestly. With a sperm bank, you KNOW those donors are willing parties, whereas an unsuspecting fling hasn't given you that kind of consent.

There are a lot of children in need. A biological child of your own is a long term commitment. Hell, I'm 24, at my parents' home and still pretty dependent on them and will be till I'm done with school. Have you considered foster parenting as a temporary solution?

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AnnaK
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Logic_grrl-

You do have a point about having unprotected sex increasing my chances of getting an STD. However, I wasn't being literal about having unprotected sex with any guy - as long as I didn't meet him in a bar or club. I'd like to at least be able to know a guy a little to have an idea of whether or not he's a risk-taker, which would reduce the risk for me, a lot.

I was not just referring to an accidental pregnancy. It was inferred during our conversation that ANY pregnancy would be acceptable. Indeed, I know my mother would love to be a grandma and thus, would be highly supportive of me.

Some men do want a part in their child's life, but a lot of men, really don't. Perhaps I am just biased against men, as in my own personal experience, a lot of them are not interested, but it seems to me that the majority would not care.

It is a bit different to have sex with someone in order to get pregnant, rather than to go to a sperm bank, I grant you. However, I was just trying to illustrate my point that men are not so likely to see it as theft - unless of course you want financial support from them. Then they would see it as theft! I have a cousin who has two children by two different fathers who were never part of the family equation and were basically sperm donors. Nobody except my cousin even knows who their fathers are!

Aria51 - I did not say there was NO risk of having a special needs child. I just said that the risk was small. It could be argued that all children have their own special needs anyway - such as allergies, a disposition which may make them more vulnerable, etc etc, which is something I would bear in mind.

gubblebum - it is possible that the kind of scenario you suggested (a man demanding parental rights years down the line), is possible, but unlikely. I am 20 and my father never learned of my existence.

I didn't say that ALL women care about babies, although perhaps I unintentionally inferred it. I just feel, and think that few would argue that generally our sex cares about babies more than men.

I know a baby will not remain a baby for long. Hence the comments I made about seeing a baby go through various stages of life.

christinejones - I know parenthood does not always stop at 18. The fact that I live at home, at the age of 20 is proof of that!

You do have a point about the father-figure issue for boys. For us girls... it isn't such a big deal (in most cases), but it can be for boys. However... not always... I do know of one man who was raised by just his mother and he was not bothered by the lack of a father figure and turned out well.

I am not adamant against having a relationship. A part of me, having been in a single parent family, thinks yes, it's fine, a good way to bring up a child, but that the traditional two-parent nuclear family would be nice - for the child, and for me. I just haven't met a man I feel I could spend my life with and have children with.

I would provide for my child emotionally from the start. Financially I couldn't contribute that much at the moment so I would be reliant on my family at first, but once I have finished my education I would be able to provide for my child.

Gum drop girl - I am well aware of the fact that a child is a long-term commitment, hence I feel that having my own biological child rather than adopting or fostering would be the right thing for me. Also, I would get more support at home with a biological child, than I would if I adopted a child or fostered one.


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logic_grrl
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quote:
Some men do want a part in their child's life, but a lot of men, really don't. Perhaps I am just biased against men, as in my own personal experience, a lot of them are not interested, but it seems to me that the majority would not care.

You know, it doesn't matter what you assume about "the majority of men", sexist and stereotyped though that is.

It is still morally wrong by anybody's standards to exploit and deceive someone in order to use them as an involuntary sperm donor.

And plenty of guys have made it quite clear that they do care a great deal about this sort of thing.

By the way, what, precisely, would you be planning on telling your child when it grew up? "Your daddy was some random guy I lied to and tricked, because I wanted the sperm"? C'mon.

quote:
I'd like to at least be able to know a guy a little to have an idea of whether or not he's a risk-taker, which would reduce the risk for me, a lot.

Anyone who has unprotected sex with someone else (assuming they haven't been screened for STDs) is a "risk-taker". Any guy who you can get to have unprotected sex with you is a "risk-taker". Having unprotected sex makes you a "risk-taker".

I don't know what you're imagining, but STDs don't only happen to people who have certain personality types or hang out in certain places. Having unprotected sex is all the "risk" required.

quote:
Indeed, I know my mother would love to be a grandma and thus, would be highly supportive of me.

So why not tell her now what you're planning, and see how supportive she actually is?

quote:
I am well aware of the fact that a child is a long-term commitment, hence I feel that having my own biological child rather than adopting or fostering would be the right thing for me.

I don't understand what you mean here. You understand that adoption is permanent, and just as long-term a commitment as biological parenting, right?

quote:
- it is possible that the kind of scenario you suggested (a man demanding parental rights years down the line), is possible, but unlikely. I am 20 and my father never learned of my existence.

OK, so you're assuming that you can start a relationship with a guy, get to know him enough to feel confident that he doesn't fit your stereotype of guys likely to have STDs, have sex with him repeatedly - including having your first ever sexual experiences with him - until you get pregnant (because it doesn't always happen instantaneously), then ditch him and cut him out of your life completely so fast that he never finds out you got pregnant.

Big assumptions.

And also reliant on your being able to "fake" some sort of emotional relationship - which, again, takes us into the realm of deceit and exploitation.

You know, guys are human beings. They have feelings. They do not all fit into whatever negative stereotype you have.

I know this may sound rude, but I can't think of any other way of putting it - if you're cold-bloodedly planning to exploit and abuse someone like this, then I seriously doubt your ability to "provide emotionally" for anyone, let alone a child.

In this thread, you don't seem capable of imagining that a a guy might possibly have feelings which don't fit your plans, let alone that he might have rights which you need to respect. You're thinking entirely in terms of what is convenient for you and what you want.

None of this sounds like you are ready to be a good parent.


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AnnaK
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Logic_grrl -

I think you were being rude. It's one thing to give advice, put your point of view across or even to strongly disagree with me. It's another to insult me by suggesting I am emotionally unable to provide for anyone, or that by doing what I am considering doing, I would be cold-blooded, expoitative abusive, etc.

You say it is morally wrong by 'anybody's' standards. It is evidently morally wrong by your standards and others on the board do appear to share your view, but I wouldn't say that your moral standards are anybody's, so be careful.

Yes, I would have to lie to my child. I would not like doing it, but I would, because there is stigma attached to this kind of thing. I am sure you would agree with me on that point...

No, not everyone who has unprotected is a risk-taker. If someone regularly has unprotected sex, they are a risk-taker. If I had sex with someone who previously had not had unprotected sex, there would be no risk.

I didn't say in my post I was planning to do this. I said I was considering it. There's a big difference there.

It isn't something I need to discuss with my mother. I know how she feels about this kind of thing and has said before she'd like to be a grandparent.

Fostering is not a long-term commitment. Adoption is, but, means having a child that is not necessarily a baby, which would be harder in terms of adjustment than having a baby and watching it go through the various stages.

Where did I say anything about an emotional attachment? Sure, there might be one on my side if I actually got to trust a guy, but I would not fake that.

Yes, I am thinking of what I want, but you don't know me, so don't know how I am with babies/children, how I feel about them, or how I would care for a baby. My slight hostility and perhaps even contempt towards guys is not an indicator of what kind of parent I would be.


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glitter695
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No, we don't know you. We only know what you tell us from your posts. And to us it just seems the way that you want this baby is rather deceitful.

Have you ever thought of talking to someone close in your family about this situation your in, and get an opinion from them? Maybe their advice might be better suited for you.

I know your father didn't know who you were. How did that make you feel? Didn't you want to know who he was? Your child is gonna want to know who their father is. When they get older they are going to want to know, and it's not fair if you keep it a secret forever.

It just seems to me that you are just thinking of yourself and your own feelings. Not your childs, or the person that you would be stealing from.

How do you know that the person that you are with wouldn't have an STD. Not all STDs show up or are visable right away. Sometimes it can take months for something to show up, but its still in their system. That happend to one of my friends.

It doesn't matter if you didnt meet them at a bar or a club. Just because someone looks clean on the outside, doesnt mean that they are STD free.

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logic_grrl
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quote:
You say it is morally wrong by 'anybody's' standards. It is evidently morally wrong by your standards and others on the board do appear to share your view, but I wouldn't say that your moral standards are anybody's, so be careful.

I have yet to encounter any set of moral standards which says that lying to and exploiting people is okay.

And that's what you would be doing. There's no way round that.

If you use someone as a tool for your own convenience, deceiving them to get them to do what you want them to do - then you are exploiting them, by any definition of exploitation.

quote:
you don't know me, so don't know how I am with babies/children, how I feel about them, or how I would care for a baby. My slight hostility and perhaps even contempt towards guys is not an indicator of what kind of parent I would be.

In my experience, someone who can't treat adult human beings decently is unlikely to be able to treat a child decently.

(And would you have the same "hostility" and "contempt" towards your child if it turned out to be male?)

If you want to have a baby and are prepared to go about it responsibly and ethically, then you could either adopt or use a sperm bank (if you're convinced that you couldn't handle a child which isn't yours genetically).

But you're not going to find anyone here who will tell you that deceiving and manipulating people is okay.

[This message has been edited by logic_grrl (edited 12-23-2004).]


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Heather
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quote:
Originally posted by AnnaK:
If I had sex with someone who previously had not had unprotected sex, there would be no risk.

Without getting into everything else that's convoluted here, you need to understand that this statement is simply INCORRECT and uninformed.

Safer sex practices (latex barriers, regular screenings AND lifestyle issues) do not eradicate risks, they merely diminish them. With some STIs they do so greatly, or even completely: with others (like Herpes and HPV), they do not. I'm not sure why here you feel the need to repeatedly make claims about STIs and STI risk here that are fallacious, and in a space where we're all too familiar with these fallacies so even if you buy this stuff, we're sure not going to, because we have loads of information to know better.

quote:
My slight hostility and perhaps even contempt towards guys is not an indicator of what kind of parent I would be.

I don't suppose you've considered the fact that it sure could be, especially if you had a male child?


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Heather
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One more thing...

...I'm not sure I understand WHY -- unless I'm misunderstanding -- tricking someone into getting you pregnant is preferable to using a sperm bank. You get the same result, minus the exploitation, manipulation, deceit, STI risks AND you even get legal protection you wouldn't have otherwise in terms of the donor giving assurance they will NOT seek out paternity.

Because that, as well as your also making clear you see no need to also discuss this with the parent you will nonconsensually be assigning financial resposibility for the child to just make it really, really hard to buy that you're invested at all in not only doing this at all unselfishly and with everyone's best interests in mind (including a childs) and that what you're looking for here is just permission to behave poorly, or that, perhaps, the deciet and manipulation is part of the appeal of all this to you.


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AnnaK
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glitter695 - I finally did discuss this with my mother, who didn't have a problem with it, which I knew she wouldn't.

For a while I found it a bit weird that other people had their dads around and I didn't, but I adjusted to it. I haven't spent my life being bothered by it. I don't feel as if my father was stolen from my life. My mother made the decision she felt was right at the time, and that's fine.

Fair point about STDs. That really is the potential major problem (as far as I am concerned) about this whole idea.

As for your point about not meeting in a pub, club, etc, others have made comments about that and I've responded to them already.

logic_grrl - You seem so hostile towards me, I'm wondering if this issue hits close to home for you in some way. You're coming across as very judgemental.

People lie all the time. About big things, little things. Whatever. In some situations society regards them to be okay. In protecting someone, for instance. I wouldn't be lying to someone. I'd just have unprotected sex a few times, get pregnant and that would be that.

I disagree with you about exploitation in these circumstances. I stand by my viewpoint about the indifference of most males.

As I said earlier, I did discuss this with my mother, and she said it would only be immoral if I intended to get pregnant to get state housing, get a guy, or asked the guy for child support.

I said 'slight' hostility and 'perhaps' contempt. You exaggerate my concessions to my possible marginally unfair attitude towards males, as you've exaggerated or twisted several other things I've said! I don't dislike males - I have male acquaintances and friends who are great. I just don't have faith in the population of males as a whole, and justly so. If I had a baby boy,however, I'd be just as happy as I would if I had a baby girl. It makes no difference to me. I love babies and children; whether boys or girls!

I have no idea what kind of parent I would be - but I don't think anyone can fully predict what kind of parent they can be like. I just don't agree with the fact that based on my above comments, that would make me a bad person, or a bad parent.

I didn't say I couldn't handle a child who wasn't my own biological child. Just that it would not be the same, I would have missed stages in the child's life which would sadden me and it would be harder for myself and the child to adjust to the situation.

Miz Scarlet - I'm 20, and thus, understand about sexually transmitted diseases. Yes, I suppose I have made assumptions that perhaps I shouldn't - but, quite frankly, STDs or no, whether trying to get pregnant, or being in a relationship involving (hopefully) trust, I would not feel the need to use protection all the time, and nor would I ask that person for test results. I'd trust them. I'd trust their judgement.


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AnnaK
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For several reasons. The main thing would be because of what would be on the child's birth certificate. A child might feel awkward at having been the result of a sperm donation, but would feel less so as the result of some relationship. Furthermore, I'd feel uncomfortable with not knowing who the child's father was. I wouldn't love the child any less, but whilst the idea does have its appeal, I find it a bit odd. Also, it's cheaper to have sex than going to a sperm bank and less embarrassing. And as I just said in my last post, I have now discussed this with my mother who had no objections and said that she would support me if that's what I wanted to do. The deceit and manipulation doesn't appeal to me - especially as I don't see it as that, because I would not expect anything from the man afterwards and I still maintain that most men don't wish to get involved in rearing children anyway.

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glitter695
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Let me just ask you this:

You feel nothing wrong with using someone just to make yourself happy?

Besides that have you thought of how you are going to raise this child? How you are going to provide for he or she?

Do you feel like you have a void in your life, and think that a child will fullfill that?

Children need more love than they give. Don't you think you might be getting in over your head? Just because you FEEL like you want a child. The reality of having a child is totally different.

Also, I'm not trying to be an *** here, and I'm sorry if it comes off that way..but have you ever considered getting a puppy? You still have to take care of it, feed it, take it to the doctor, play with it, teach it, a lot of things that you would have to do when taking care of a child. Maybe it will fill that feeling that you have.

[This message has been edited by glitter695 (edited 12-23-2004).]


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Heather
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Ummm, then yet again, you're uninformed, in numerous areas. Would that being 20 meant being informed: my job would be so easy! (FYI? Not only are a lot of our users the same age as you, at 34, unless, as I do, I read briefs and studies and current data on STIs and safer sex practices constantly, no way you'd be catching me saying I knew about them merely because of my age.)

Trusting someone's judgment isn't STI protection, and an active STI can put you and a child you're going to birth in jeapordy. You're saying you want to be a good parent, and even with something as easy to manage as this, seemingly choosing instead to pick a scenario that all kinds of other crappiness aside, puts your child's health and development in greater jeapordy.

Moreover, you have GOT to realize that you have just stated the oxymoron of the century here:

quote:
... being in a relationship involving (hopefully) trust, I would not feel the need to use protection all the time, and nor would I ask that person for test results. I'd trust them. I'd trust their judgement.

How the heck can you be in a relationship where there is trust when you're planning, actively and intentionally, to deceive someone? Come ON, honey. Get real.

And YES, you WOULD be lying to someone if you became sexually active with them with the intention of getting pregnant and did not tell them that. If saying so makes you think you're not, that's your jazz, but no one here is that stupid. Not falling for it, no matter how many times you say it. I could say again and again I don't have freckles, but lo, there they'll still be right on my face, just like the egg on yours. Same goes for your endless recanting of "most men" not giving a hoot about who they parent.

Per the birth certificate, you're also again uninformed. Women who use sperm donors can actually put any name they like on the certificate. Lesbians, for instance, who use sperm banks, deal with this issue all the time: the partner's name may be put on the certificate in the father space. (And don't forget that if you ut a "real" father's name there, you then are making it even more easy for them to say, sue you for joint or full custody at some point, a right any man is entitled to in a situation like this, and I can assure you that you and your mother's feelings aside, family courts aren't going to be real impressed with someone knowingly tricking another person into being a donor, and their sympathy isn't going to lie with you.) As well, donors do not HAVE to be unknown to you: somehow, the idea of ASKING someone to be a donor, including having them sign a disclaimer to abandon parental rights to CYA, or negotiate shared parenting as you like, passed you by. Not sure why, and that is doable. I've had discussions about that with more than one of my male friends over the years.

And of course, fair and bondafide sperm donation being embarassing is a little silly, because I can assure you that pregnancy, childbirth and parenting will be FAR more emebarassing at times than using a sperm bank for what it's meant for. Moreover, that THAT embarasses you but exploiting someone doesn't is pretty bizarre.

At this point, I'm not sure what else we have to offer you. If you're bound and determined to do it that way, and your mother's agreement is enough for you, then I guess it is. But permission for this sort of ploy isn't likely to be okayed here, and logic's approach to you is undoubtedly not at all personal for her, because like it or not, this is actually a radically simple ethics issue in this particular case, made even simpler by your cavalier and sexist approach to it.

That said, I'm just going to close the thread at this point and leave this by telling you that I, personally, seriously hope you reconsider this plan and forgo it for one which is safer, saner, more adult and in the real best interest of EVERYONE involved, not just your own interest and desires.

Especially since being able to do that is something that, for at least the next 18+ years, you'l need to be able to do incessantly as a decent parent.

[Note: This message has been edited by Miz Scarlet]


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